[Deck] Zilla Stompy 2k6 - RG Beats for the Modern Meta

Against Rifter, I usually side out Bolts first, and possibly a Jitte if necessary. The deck doesn't really have enough burn for it to create inevitability in the long game; it's rarely used as a finisher, and far more often used as creature removal. Since Rifter has no creatures you're going to want to remove with Bolt, they tend to get sided out.

Jittes are good against Humility as you noted, but they're most important in the aggro matchup, which is why there's a full 4. In this matchup, you can stand to do without one, since you don't really need to see it before turn 4 anyway.

The Magma Jets I tend to leave in as a means of finding my hate faster, be it Tranquil Domain, Winter Orb, or Pithing Needle.

It's a very solid deck and I congratulate on making many improvements on the old build.

I was wondering if you tested Fyndhorn Elves (or Birds of Paradise) in Elvish Spirit Guides place.

Yes, ESGs are more explosive, but Fyndhorn Elves give you consistent acceleration which can be crucial because this lets you play a burn spell the same turn you cast a creature, or regenerate Troll Ascetic. It lets you play and equip Jitte at the same time and thus overall provides a more long term tempo boost.

I assume this is the reason why Llanowar Elves is such a crucial part of the mana curve. But with only 4x copies of it, you won't be able to lead with it to fuel a 2nd turn 3cc card more than half the games you play. By running fewer number of it, it also makes you more vulnerable to burn mana screwing you. Given that, it seems worthwhile to run 8x copies or 6x copies along with 2x ESGs with it. And Fyndhorn lets you do precisely that.

The second question is more because I'm interested in trying this deck out in a upcoming local tourney once (seems like a fun deck to try) but won't be able to get my hands on Burning Tree Shaman for a while.

I was considering running Call of the Herd (or possibly River Boa or something else) in it's place.

And I was wondering if Call isn't actually better than Burning Tree Shaman in a lot of matchups.

Call gives you two 3/3 bodies (each big enough to block and survive the 2/1s and 2/2s that run rampant in this format) for the price of one card. If makes it so a control player has to counter or deal with or remove two threats rather than one. It makes sure you always have something to cast. And it's puts your opponent on a near identical clock to Burning Tree Shaman since a few turns later on, you'll likely use the flashback ability to get another threat to do a few more points of damage in. Perhaps most importantly, it'll let you replace one more Mountain with a Forest to give you a mana base that looks as neat as clean as the rest of the deck (that was a joke).

How close would you say the two cards are in power level? Is it really worth it to spend money on Burning Tree Shaman if I already have 4x Calls?

This is the build I'm at right now...

// Mana
8 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Birds of Paradise/Fyndhorn Elves
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

// Creatures
4 Kird Ape
4 Call of the Herd
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Iwamori of the Open Fist

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Rancor
4 Umezawa's Jitte

ESG is better than more Elves because it's free, instant mana that is castable in a 2/2 body if the need arises. While Elves provide the mana in subsequent turns, an ESG gets you the mana now so you can cast those turn 2 Iwamori or Troll-Rancor or Jitte-equip, without waiting a turn for your accel to go active. Also, elves and birds and the like tend to die rather quickly in this format, as anyone with experience against R/G knows that killing the turn 1 mana producer will increase their odds of living long enough to win substantially. ESG dodges this difficulty, as nothing save a Stifle will stop you from getting your green mana.

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ESG dodges this difficulty, as nothing will stop you from getting your green mana.

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Fixed.

ESG also kicks Daze square in the balls.

Would chalice of the void be a valid option? Think of all the decks you could lock down by setting a chalice to 2.

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Originally Posted by Binary Star

Would chalice of the void be a valid option? Think of all the decks you could lock down by setting a chalice to 2.

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It would be if the goal of the deck wasn't to beat your opponents' faces in. Also, it kills Jitte, which is a pretty key card in this deck. Plus, if you have 4 mana available, you can probably do something much better with it, like cast Iwamori, or a Troll and a Rancor, or two Kird Apes with mana to regenerate Troll, or Jitte-Equip.

P.S. thanks Frogboy, I typed that in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Lord Dralnu

I have been very impressed with the power of this deck against goblins threshold and even random scrub decks. Great job Zilla :smile:!

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Thanks for your report. What I have done this week is tests against Angel Stompy, 4-10 totally. 1-3 with the original format, 2-2 with 4 Emerald Charm in place of Jets, 1-3 with 3 Anarchy and 2 Naturalize in place of Jets and 1 Ape, and 0-2 also with Anarchy and Naturalize, while remains 2 Jets and 2 Bolts. The detailed result proves nothing but showing my bad draws in the last games.

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Originally Posted by GodzillA

I usually side out Bolts first

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It resembles the cases here. I was annoyed by my bad draw quite often, and Jets may be the only choice to alleviate that. I buried Exalted Angel by 2 bolts in one game, but I know this cannot be relied on. Instead of Naturalize, Emerald Charm seems to be a decent choice here, even from the aspect of versatility(Let Hooligans deal with heavy Artifacts): How about bring its to SB.

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Originally Posted by Zelyon

// Mana
8 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Birds of Paradise/Fyndhorn Elves
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

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I was impressed with the time my elf is removed by Parallax Wave, having dried of Land for 3-4 turns with 2 on board, Exalted Angel standing on the other side, having blown me to 1 life. Parallax Wave have no fading counters but it still survives till the next upkeep. I draw a Mountain, with Anarchy in my hand, but my poor elf!
ESG, I can say, is the best mana accelerant I have ever ever ever seen(in Legacy). Against many decks, Elves cannot just survive!

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Originally Posted by Zelyon

How close would you say the two cards are in power level? Is it really worth it to spend money on Burning Tree Shaman if I already have 4x Calls?

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Thanks to take money into consideration. Zilla may well explain this, but I will say they are close in power levels. My tests against Angel Stompy reminds me the Elephant. Oh, our decks are greener and greener, the deck might be well estabilished before Guildpact, or Ravnica!

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Originally Posted by Binary Star

Would chalice of the void be a valid option? Think of all the decks you could lock down by setting a chalice to 2.

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May I apply the danger of cool things here?

Lastly, I have no strong feelings that "when I draw Swords, I hope it can be Jittes." My version is: 1 SoF&I, 1 SoL&S, 2 Jittes. They are rare cases I can win against Angel Stompy, and Equipments are not the decisive part.

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Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

Thanks for your report. What I have done this week is tests against Angel Stompy, 4-10 totally. 1-3 with the original format, 2-2 with 4 Emerald Charm in place of Jets, 1-3 with 3 Anarchy and 2 Naturalize in place of Jets and 1 Ape, and 0-2 also with Anarchy and Naturalize, while remains 2 Jets and 2 Bolts. The detailed result proves nothing but showing my bad draws in the last games.

It resembles the cases here. I was annoyed by my bad draw quite often, and Jets may be the only choice to alleviate that. I buried Exalted Angel by 2 bolts in one game, but I know this cannot be relied on. Instead of Naturalize, Emerald Charm seems to be a decent choice here, even from the aspect of versatility(Let Hooligans deal with heavy Artifacts): How about bring its to SB.

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So you took stuff out of the MD for naturalize and emerald charm? Or did you just SB some games for testing? I wouldn't tune the deck (or sb depending) for one matchup. We need to just accept AS as a bad match-up and live with being able to stomp most of the rest of the meta. I have to say, at this point myfavorite SB cards are tranquil domain and pyrostatic pillar (for thier respective match-ups).

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Originally Posted by Lord Dralnu

So you took stuff out of the MD for naturalize and emerald charm? Or did you just SB some games for testing? I wouldn't tune the deck (or sb depending) for one matchup. We need to just accept AS as a bad match-up and live with being able to stomp most of the rest of the meta. I have to say, at this point myfavorite SB cards are tranquil domain and pyrostatic pillar (for thier respective match-ups).

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I can not just accept AS as a bad matchup, for its popularity(more than 20%, the figure is shown somewhere in this forum). So let's take active steps towards it!
And, I have no means of changing the main at present, the reason I took out 2 Jitte is I have only 2.
Naturalize answers Artifacts, Tranquil Domain cannot just like Emerald Charm cannot! Tranquil Domain are far inferior to Charm, a boarder solution with less mana costs!

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Originally Posted by scrumdogg

Quick list of relevant artifacts:
Aether Vial
Jitte
CotV (usually Game 2 - but bad for 1cc deck whenever it hits....)
Cranial Plating (yes, it's still around) & friends
Cursed Scroll
Disk
large fat critters from Core to Naut to......)

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This gives me confidence of placing Charm into SB over Naturalize(and none Hooligans also): see these guys can be shut down by needles:tongue:
All right, my SB plan is here:
4*Emerald Charm
4*Pithing Needle
4*Pyrostatic Pillar(Although I have no chance using it yet)
3*Anarchy

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Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

I can not just accept AS as a bad matchup, for its popularity(more than 20%, the figure is shown somewhere in this forum). So let's take active steps towards it!
And, I have no means of changing the main at present, the reason I took out 2 Jitte is I have only 2.
Naturalize answers Artifacts, Tranquil Domain cannot just like Emerald Charm cannot! Tranquil Domain are far inferior to Charm, a boarder solution with less mana costs!

This gives me confidence of placing Charm into SB over Naturalize(and none Hooligans also): see these guys can be shut down by needles:tongue:
All right, my SB plan is here:
4*Emerald Charm
4*Pithing Needle
4*Pyrostatic Pillar(Although I have no chance using it yet)
3*Anarchy

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Ok, good luck with the AS match-up (hopefully something can help it), but I disagree with one thing. Charm is not better than domain. Charm can kill one enchantment while domain hits all of them (except rancor which you dont want to die). This may not matter much in the AS match-up, but it is very relevent in the rifter match-up. Several times I have blown up thier rift AND humility which is quite good. CA is nice and removing all of thier main cards is nice especially considering most people only run 2-3 rifts.
Pyrostatic Pillar is king of any combo match-up and the NQG match-up. With all thier cantrips and fetches they will end up killing themself and going into burn range with only a couple swings with any creature in.

Sorry for the double post, but this is a new topic and we could use a bump. I've been playing on apprentice alot lately and it seems everyones favorite legacy deck is white stax. I'll say it now I HATE STAX. I was there for like 45 min with him playing no win conditions... all he did was cast 3 geddons 2 wraths a trinisphere and a ghostly prison. Is there any way I can beat them without running 3x shattering sprees in the board? Every time I've played a stax player I've gotten them to like 3-4 and they geddon with a prison in play. I get to two mana but they have ports and they geddon again... I win easily when trinishpere isn't in play stopping my burn, but what else can I do? Sorry about the angryness (if that transfers over) but who in gods name plays stax for FUN? It's more fun to watch paint dry...
Angrily yours,
-LD

Shattering Spree isnt that great against Stax. I know people dont believe that at face value. Infact you wouldnt believe it till you tried it. With Trinisphere out you need to pay three to blow up 3 artifacts. I dont often have three artifacts, usually about 2. If I have Chalice out for one then one copy gets countered. Ive also noticed this deck to have red mana problems on occasion, so getting RRR at sorc speed without disruption from Rishadin Ports and Wastelands could be pretty impossible. Throw in some Tangle Wires and Geddons and its the end of your sorc speed Shattering Sprees.

If you continue to see Stax I recommend either Hull Breach or Rack and Ruin as better options. Hull Breach, while still being a sorcery will take out that Ghostly Prison and the (annoying artifact) Rack and Ruin is your best option for killing more than one artifact. I wouldnt say stax is one of your better matches anyways. Your best card is probably Iwamori.

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Originally Posted by Zelyon

And I was wondering if Call isn't actually better than Burning Tree Shaman in a lot of matchups.

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In some matchups, yes. But the Shaman has the added benefit of being a must kill against Rifter, and absolutely hosing Salvagers to the point where they can't go off with him in play. Overall he's a threat that will put your opponents on tilt much more often, and will randomly win you games that the Calls never could. Blue based control is not a problem in the current Meta, so Call doesn't have a huge chance to shine.

Don't forget that Burning-Tree Shaman utterly destroys Psychatog.

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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Don't forget that Burning-Tree Shaman utterly destroys Psychatog.

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Psychatog DOES run removal you know.

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Originally Posted by Alfred

Psychatog DOES run removal you know.

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I meant it makes the creature basically useless. I didn't mean that BTS beats the deck single-handedly.

No much fun. After few adjustments, the AS matchup cannot turn out much better. Still, I will argue that Tranquil Domains may not be the appropriate choice in Rifters, with only 5 aura enchantments.
How are the matchups with Angel Stax and Survival based decks?

Any R/G deck that's losing to Stax isn't doing something right, since you just cast Artifact Mutation and blow open a major piece of their lock (they now have to Wrath or die). If that isn't sufficient, you can reinforce it with Rack and Ruin or Viashino Heretic.

Survival does the same thing that this deck does, but since Survival can guarantee a creature of similar size to your biggest threats every turn they should win in the long game every time. I haven't tested the matchup at all, but in the R/G mirror the deck with the most card advantage elements wins in the long game.

If you want to kill giant flying things, like oh I don't know Exalted Angels, Arashi, the Sky Asunder seems awfully good.

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Originally Posted by kirdape3

Any R/G deck that's losing to Stax isn't doing something right, since you just cast Artifact Mutation and blow open a major piece of their lock (they now have to Wrath or die). If that isn't sufficient, you can reinforce it with Rack and Ruin or Viashino Heretic.

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Is the matchup positive? What do you mean by "isn't doing something right"?
Er, I have not piles of solution. R&R, Mutation doesn't have their place in SB.

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Originally Posted by kirdape3

If you want to kill giant flying things, like oh I don't know Exalted Angels, Arashi, the Sky Asunder seems awfully good.

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Emerald Charm is included mainly due to its low cost and versatility.
Arashi, Viashino Heretic are good cards, but absolutely have no place here.

Chalice for one makes alot of dead cards for this deck. Ghostly Prison can be a nightmare. Wrath is also a pain in the ass should you get a good creature rush. Suppression Field shuts down Jitte. I wouldnt imagine stax is a good matchup. Your best chance is probably Hull Breach so you can take out something like Ghostly Prison and Chalice. Its better than Artifact Mutation cause Stax will just play a new lock piece every turn. Hull Breach gives a you 2 for 1 in one turn on the cheap, so it can play around ports and Tangle Wires to some degree. The mutation tokens will never matter much thanks to Ghostly Prison or Wrath so its just a shitty shatter in most cases.

Your best card in that match is honestly ESG.