But without dragonauts, lava dart is very sub-par. Are you thinking in addition to 4 bolts and 4 magma jets?
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But without dragonauts, lava dart is very sub-par. Are you thinking in addition to 4 bolts and 4 magma jets?
Why not run 2 Gelectrodes instead of Dragonauts? Gelectrodes increase your removal capability by turning a Bolt into 5 damage, a Magma Jet into 4 damage, or a standard cantrip or counter into 2 damage. This gives you far greater removal and reach options as you can now remove Enforcers and Werebears easily and burn someone from less than 10 health down to zero. One of the problems would be that he only has 1 toughness so is easily removed by almost anything. On the other hand, the turn after he hits play, you should be able to zealously remove most of the creatures on the opponent's board. There is also the distinct lack of card advantage with Pyroclasm, but in that case, you can simply Pyroclasm first and then play Gelectrode since most creatures that would be killed by Gelectrode would be killed by Pyroclasm in the first place.
Isochron Scepter > Gelectrodes
I think so too, but isn't Scepter better than Dragonauts too?
What does this deck do to Jotun Grunt? Double Burn is a pretty bad strategy, seeing as if they're protecting grunt at all (which they should be), A failed double burn attempt will probably be fatal. Do you sideboard for it, or just take the loss?
The untapping effect of Treachery is not important enough to justify the 5cc (even 4cc is pushing it). All your counters except Counterspell work when you're tapped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solpugid
Lava Dart's power level is too weak to justify its inclusion. As it is, the decklist is very tight. Actually, the cantrips are the awesomeness with Dragonauts, since you can "chain" them for massive damage (e.g. Portent, Serum, Bstorm swing - 7 damage) and dig for the lethal Burn at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
While the effect is interesting, the 1-toughness is a real bummer. I don't want threats that die to Mogg Fanatic. Dragonauts have 3 toughness, which is really handy to block Goblins or other 2/2s. Dragonauts also survive Pyroclasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by cRUMMYdUMMY
@Mad Zur:
Angel Stompy is harder for UGR, I'll give you that. To be fair, UGW also doesn't have a favorable matchup against AS (it's 50/50 at best). With the addition of Jotun Grunt, it becomes worse for both variants.
With the broad term "aggro" I meant stuff like Goblins, Zoo, Fish variants, Red Death, Deadguy, Affinity and the like. Not all of these are strictly aggro, but I hope you get my point. You want more than just 4 Swords for removal. You really feel the difference between 4 Swords and 8 Lighting Bolt/Magma Jet in those matchups.
My UGR build definitely has a better Goblin matchup than UGW, especially after boarding. Needle is already working overtime, and the 4 Tinkerer/Hooligan version (like Machinus ran) can handle it quite easily.
Pyroclasm clears their board, and Stifle makes sure they don't refill with Ringleaders.
Either you are joking, or you're underestimating Magma Jet. Hoping that it's the latter, I'll try to explain.Quote:
4 Brainstorm
4 Portent
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Predict
Basically, because Jet fulfills multiple functions like instant speed-library manipulation/removal/damage, I think it is a lot better than Sleight. I already have 12 U-cantrips, which are sufficient.
I get the feeling that you're underestimating Burn in general. The additional damage quickly adds up, especially if your opponent uses Fetchlands. Those additional points of damage are the reason why UGR is faster than UGW. Because Thresh doesn't have a strong late-game, I think it is imperative to make things clear in the mid-game. UGR is better in this regard.
While Burn is worse than Swords against pro-red and fatties, it has the big advantage of being useful against control and combo (or deck without creatures in general), unlike Swords. Against control packing counters, Bolts and Jets become must-counter spells if their life-total is low. Against control without counters (Loam deck, Rock, Survival), I often won games I wasn't supposed to win because of direct damage. Against combo, at least you improve your clock.
Also, if you see that you can't handle your opponents threat, you can simply "chain" Burn at your opponents dome. Dragonauts really help to assist this Plan B. This flexibility I think is an important advantage of UGR.
I admit that pro-red creatures and fatties pose problems, hence Control Magic and FTK are in the sideboard.
Try out my list and tell me what you think!
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My solutions are Control Magic and FTK. Especially Control Magic is mean against UGW with Grunts.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Grunt is not a friendly sight. You can do some combination of block and burn. You SB flametounge kavu. Some people have tried Control magic and control magic effects. You can counter... in short, Grunt hurts but you do have answers.
Once again, Vedalken Shackles is also another option. But Sbing Flametongue Kavu isnt a bad move either. Since it's both card quality and card advantage, it's also quite safe to start a counter war for this guy's resolution. Fighting over Vedalken Shackles resolution is somewhat decent, but it can easily be Needled.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenOmnipotent
I also realized this deck's mana base could easily help if play Anarchy, what are your thoughts? It hits both Grunts and Angel Stompy's men.
If there is a lot of Angel Stompy or decks packing white in general, feel free to use it (although personally I haven't seen such a metagame). The sideboard can be customized easily, and the cantrips help a lot in finding those sb answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
i don't think anarchy would be a plan vs. all Jotan Grunts. It's more specificly if the deck is playing mages, enforcers, etc. If it's just the grunts that I'd bevery happy with the FTKs. But yeah, I can see Anarchy doing pretty well. Worth testing at the very least. I already run 2 in my SB for Angel Stompy. I don't feel you can win otherwise.
Try Threads of Disloyalty. The mana difference makes it a sideboard option against Gobs and Black disruption too since they play ld.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo
The text difference makes it unplayable against Goblins, so the fact that Threads can't take Enforcers or Dragons in the mirror probably makes Control Magic better.Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
Against Goblins, I'd rather have Pyroclasm and Stifle. Threads also don't address the one of the main problems this deck has, which are fat creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
Control Magic is really good.
What does everybody think about my Dragonaut list?
What are your thoughts about the UGR vs UGW debate?
I actually really like the dragonauts, but I worry that putting your "fatty" into bolt range could be detrimental. I will try him out in my UGR build.
As for which splash is better, I keep wanting to play red every time I lose to goblins or zoo, but then I play against stuff like salvager game and angel stompy and remember why I love swords so much. Grunt and monastery seal the deal for me.
But honestly, if I was playing in a meta with a large population of aggro decks, I would switch to red in a heartbeat. Until I stop seeing mid-range aggro-control decks, though, I'll stick with white.
although I'm not saying its a bad Idea, I really don't like the dragonauts. yes the ability is sweet, but with a body of 3, a bolt wrecks them, and they arent a good blocker if your opponent resolves a creature with power 3 or greater. dragon is better because he is already a 5/5 flyer, and you can pump him up with r (usually can swing in with 5-8 damage regularly) and if needed you can block.
Dragonauts are awful. Your tapping yourself out on your turn to make him Gro. Even in the late game, his awful because your card advantage is synthetic, it's not meant to last that long. Also, the body dies to Bolt, and can be targeted. It no way is that card able to swing the game around like a Fledgling Dragon, and in no way is it disruptive.
Also, UGr > UGw. I made up my mind today. UGr can deal with Combo much better UGw can, and can win the most rediculous games with some burn cards aimed at the head.
So how are you going to solve Grunt now?
In the entire course of the game, your only using your counters for Geese and Fliers, and the Geese and fliers resolution. So what do you do? Use a couple Burn Cards to hit the Grunt. If he counters, counter back. Now you both ran out of counters. Take advantage of this opportunity to play your Geese and fliers and go all out.
I'm sure theres a good reason, but why does no one run Kird Ape? Its pretty much 1 for a 2/3 most of the time. Is it because its not big enough, has no evasion, can't be pitched to FoW, and doesn't contribute to attaining thresh? Despite this, it seems like it would be a pretty good beater early game and blocker late game, since its not dependent on thresh.
one reason...no taiga...this means that its never going to be a 2/3 turn 1...also, it CAN be targeted..its not dependent/big enough...basically, it doesn't have good psynergy w/the deck.
From the above statements, it's evident that you haven't played with Dragonauts yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
Dragonauts sure as hell can swing a game around.
First, tapping out when you're having Dragonauts out is not a bad thing, since it is mostly for cantrips, which dig for free counters and more cantrips. If your opponent decides to destroy them, you can counter the removal spell and pump Dragonauts even more.
I also don't get what you mean by "synthetic", but I can assure you that Predict draws you enough cards to fuel the cantrip engine and Dragonauts.
As for Bolt, aside from the UGR mirror, there isn't a consistently performing deck that runs Bolt. Even then, you can counter it.
Unlike Fledgling, Dragonauts are infinitely easier to cast and can be pitched to Force if you don't need them. Dragonauts also get their bonus from something you'd be doing anyway (cantrip chain), but Fledgling simply eats the mana for pump.
Heres what I mean by synthetic, and this is also coming from a player playing with the Hatfield Configuration of Cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo
This deck doesnt ensure card advantage, just quality. The whole reason why Predict was good in the first place was due to the fact that it cuts the dead card on top and nets you two. It thins your deck by three cards technically, but sadly, it's based off of reliability.
The card still requires set-up, and making an attempt to pump a the Dragonnauts are a poor move because FoWs and Counterspells always get hardcasted mid-late game. Pitching it to other counters and cantrips is just a way to set you off your Midgame state, forcing you to make poor plays. I have never had any pleasure pitching Cantrips to FoW mid-late game, as Cantrips find me even more answers, and Counters are just general answers.
As for the cantrip chain philosophy, it sadly ends, as Portent is a slowtrip. You wont be pumping your Dragonauts until your next turn. Predicts arent always reliable to have around as well.