Hey does anyone have a match-up analysis against reanimator. If so what would be some good cards to side in against them?
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Hey does anyone have a match-up analysis against reanimator. If so what would be some good cards to side in against them?
I piloted a Big Zoo list at the Baltimore 5k to a tenth place finish going 7-2. I will write a brief tournament report, if you wish to see a blow by blow play of the deck, I was in a feature match in round 9:4x TarmogoyfHTML Code:http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/22196_Round_9_Kemper_Pogue_vs_Brandon_Leonhardt.html
4x Wild Nacatl
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Grim Lavamancer
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Elspeth, Knight Errant
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Windswept Heath
4x Arid Mesa
3x Wasteland
3x Taiga
2x Plateau
2x Savannah
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
SB:
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Path to Exile
1x Karakas
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Chain Lightning
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Tormod's Crypt
R1 I beat Max Walker playing UBR Faeries 2-0
R2 I beat Matt Heaps playing Merfolk 2-0
R3 I beat Elliot Dicker playing Ichorid 2-1
R4 I lose to Thomas Evaristo playing Zoo 1-2
R5 I beat William Kahl playing Zoo 2-1
R6 I beat Chas Hinkle playing Merfolk 2-0
R7 I lose to John Winters playing UW Landstill 1-2
R8 I beat James Goodwin playing Zoo 2-1
R9 I beat Brandon Leohardt playing NO Zoo 2-1
Overall I'm proud of my deck and my performance. I played a similar list but without Stoneforge in GP Providence where I Day 2'd but scrubbed out losing to Merfolk twice! Slower Zoo decks have a tougher time against Merfolk, but Stoneforge for SoFI makes the MU incredibly favored.
Tell me what you think and I'll be happy to answer some questions.
This is clearly not a deck. None of these lists are particularly similar to each other besides running the same obvious g/w cards like StP, Knight, and SFM. Some lists are not running Goyf which is clearly incorrect. Many of them seem to be under the impression that Scryb Ranger is playable in Legacy which is clearly incorrect. It seems odd that in the year of our lord two thousand and eleven I have to explain why Tarmogoyf is a better creature than Scryb Ranger yet here we are.
Based on the last ten decks described as "Maverick" on TCDecks, which was apparently used to justify this being posted as a DTB, the only core of the deck (based on what's actually run in all lists, as opposed to the apparently habitual efforts in this thread to claim a core that is not actually what people play) is:
3 GSZ
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 StP
2 KotR
2 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Forest
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
And the list posted just before me dropped 2 Savannahs.
That's 18 cards outside of the mana base, 4 of which are StP and which therefore don't count. The only non-ridiculously played spell- in fact the only thing that seems to separate this archetype from any other generic "pile of good cards" strategy in Legacy- is GSZ.
So,
a) Can we at least get this changed to an Archetype? It is clearly that. At best. Like seriously, I have accidentally built probably a dozen iterations of things people would call Maverick on MWS to kick around different variants of some of the best g/w creatures without even being aware that this thread existed.
2) I feel it would increase the credibility of the Source if we did not tell people that Mangara, and certainly Scryb Ranger at least, were Legacy playable cards. Like holy fuck it blocks Merfolk without dying so does Tarmogoyf.
r) ffs people you run a million shuffle effects + Jitte why aren't you running more Libraries?
四) Tarmogoyf is a super-efficient creature you should probably run at least a few.
PS: Elspeth does seem really good with equipment and mana accelerants it is probably correct to run more of that.
PPS: For the inevitable counter-arguments, know that I have a lengthy and mocking response waiting in the wings in which I discuss my new deck U/x Turbulence which runs such core cards as Brainstorm, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Daze-or-Counterspell, and sometimes Jace the Mind Sculptor and-or Vendilion Clique. Alternate working names include twenty percent of the decks in the metagame.
Oh wait fuck I think I spoiled it n/m go on.
That post was hilarious. Hilarious and true.
-Matt
RE Elspeth -
I found through my playtesting that Elspeth is at best a 1-of, and usually in the Sideboard.
RE Sylvan Libary -
Please play 2.
RE Scryb Ranger -
Quirion Ranger is better, and actually is on parity for mana when your short, and generates mana with a BoP.
RE Tarmogoyf -
I agree that 1 should be in the maindeck. Possibly more, but it's more of a metagame choice.
RE Qasali Pridemage -
Should be at least 3, if not 4 in this current metagame. Equipment battles are getting common place. Exalted triggers are also tits when all your creatures are 1/1s.
Potential to be huge, but the above scenario involves Mother of Runes and a 3cc creature staying in play for 5 turns. This kind of deck probably doesn't need such thing, as 5 turns of protected Knight of the Reliquary/Vengevine/Tarmogoyf/equipment madness will do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Spot on, but you don't seem to see the value of Scryb Rangers interactionsQuote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
with creatures with powerful tap-abilities. I still wouldn't play Ranger without Fauna Shaman, though. And if GWgoodstuff.dec ever has problems with merfolk, it's due to Coralhelm Commander flying over, so that's a minor selling point also for the Ranger.
But yes, this thread is vague. The combination of colors is really strong but the connection between placing lists is somewhat loose. And after people lose to Tarmogoyf beats a bit more, they start to put them back in the deck again. Can't complain about people trying stuff.
Normally I wouldn't bother to respond to trolls, but he is apparantly trolling with heavy Mod support which is very odd but certainly makes this discussion inevitable. How can CorpT get moderated but not IBA despite being condescending, insulting, unconstructive and using the word "fuck" every second sentence?
Also he is very much wrong (not that being wrong should be moderated but it makes his post even more annoying).
Hey IBA, are you as sure about all your posts as you were about Batterskull and Jace TMS being unplayable. I remember you posting "you fucks this is Legacy you can't play these crappy expensive cards" about both of them?
Not that people can't be wrong about stuff, we all are, but it just reminds me. With the exact same condescending attitude you sold it as if everyone who thought Batterskull or Jace TMS were even remotely playable in this format was completely retarded.
I honestly can't believe that the mods changed the topic of this thread just because of this. IBA and Zilla have their history but this is still ridiculous. I have not experienced biased Mods on an important topic on this site so far and it is not a pleasant premiere.
And now let me carefully explain to you just how bad IBA's post was:
a) writing style: if you would remove all filler words like "clearly", "in the year of the lord", "obvious", "fuck" etc. and then cut all the mocking then the post would not be very long anymore.
b) core: He is criticizing that there is no core to the list. Which is basically the only statement of his expletive-inflated post.
The base list that he presents is deceptive. He uses only 15 lands which might be the result of statistical filtering but says absolutely nothing. It is just normal that people use different Fetchlands and different fetchable lands for different expected Metagames. He also uses only 3 GSZ, no Mother of Runes, 2 Qasali Pridemages, 2 SFMs and 2 KotR.
But if you followed the discussion over last pages a core list with more of each of the cards mentioned above was clearly visible. If you disect decks like this you would have to rename Landstill, MUC and Zoo to "archetype" instead of "deck" too. It is just the nature of these decks to vary because of the many cards with a similar power level. If Wizards would print a 6/6 Tombstalker for a few Mana more I am sure the same would happen to Team America.
And sure from time to time someone would post a big Zoo list or a list with 2 Jaces but first of all there is nothing you can do about it and secondly it is not bad to have someone who had a good tournament result with a similar strategy inform us about that.
c) Scryb Ranger is better than Tarmogoyf in most Maverick lists. The synergies with Mother of Runes, Noble Hierarch and KotR make Rangers so good. Paying one Mana more to upgrade a Quirion Ranger with 3 very useful abilities and frequently productive abilities is very much worth it.
Flying is evasion which is great with Equipment and Pro:blue is a nice bonus in a format with Merfolk and Jace. Flash is also good because it can snipe Wastelands, attackers (with a big guy) or removal (with MoR).
ATM the correct number of Tarmogoyfs is either 1 or 0. It does nothing that the deck wants a creature to do.
d) Sylvan Library. Yeah, why isn't card draw/filtering an Auto Include in an aggressive Tempo deck without Reach? My goodness. There was a discussion about this and we agreed on the card being good but no auto-include. A final conclusion on such a topic is just not possible because of the high variance of the card just like with Elspeth, Knight Errant.
e) credibility of the site: Everyone agree with me or the credibility of the site is in danger. lol
On a side note, how safe is the credibility of the site if Friend A of Mod B just hijacks a DTB forum thread and changes its topic while having put up neither any kind of results nor a single constructive sentence to its discussion.
@TheInfamousBearAssassin - I think you are ignorant - You post Zoo list in GW Maverick thread, that's first of all, if you don't see difference:
Zoo is three color deck using Nacatl and more removal (Lightning Bolt for example) - it doesn't have many toolbox lands under KotR and can't support too good wastelands.
GW Maverick have more stable mana base, less removal, but more bigger creatures + toolboxes (lands, zenith targets)
Running more than 1-of Goyf is wrong in Maverick - better pick up Scavenging Ooze which is Goyf killer, and also great in KotR fight.
Maverick is a toolbox deck - you pick up meta slots and elements which best fit to your playstyle - it's similar to Survival decks.
Next word about Scryb Ranger - if you don't see its abilities and think its 1/1 prot U vanilia forget about playing this deck - its much more skill intensive than burn/sligh/zoo ;]. This little dude has a lot of great interactions in this deck (so does Quirion Ranger) I think Scryb is more universal not only for Merfolks where its wall and claw vs them, but also vs Cliques, Jaces, Thopters, Trygons etc.
Sorry if I was too personal tell me if you been touched by it.
About new hydra its slow and can't be played out of GSZ, don't see place in this deck for it.
At the end cards vs reanimator:
Scavenging Ooze - its brutal vs them.
KotR -> Karakas - shut down Iona lock/GJCA - u can Zenith it under Iona on White.
Bojuka Bog - also good
Maze of Ith - gives time for next reanimation
Tromod's Crypt under Tutor
Scryb Ranger + Equips (specially with SoLS) can block and attack under Iona Lock.
Mental Missteps (obv).
Tip - never board out STP against them, also never tappout in their turn - be prepared for GJCA to stp them. After you put KotR in play your safe.
This MU isn't great pre-board as mostly combo MU, but after its depends on your SB slots and starting hand - mostly Ranimator players sided Perishes vs us which make them slower.
Yeah, OK, that was fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Some comments, such as those about library, make sense. The second major impression of the post is of course that you're a douche, but since that is obviously your intention, let's not dwell on that...
In the thread's defense though, it should be said that the deck "Maverick" actually was indeed a deck, rather different from the lists posted here now, before it got listed as DTB, got the attention of the mob, and mr-know-it-alls like you started posted in it.
It's weird that the mods would support discussions where a claim is subjected to critique. It is like they think this is a forum for discussing ideas and not a masturbatory exercise in mutual congratulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
I am sorry if you felt condescended to.Quote:
How can CorpT get moderated but not IBA despite being condescending
If you are insulted by someone saying one of your cards is unplayable, you need to rapidly thicken your skin. I deal with this on a pretty regular basis and I don't think I've ever expressed shock that someone arguing that a card I run is crap wasn't moderated for it.Quote:
insulting
I made numerous points and cited actual numbers. You are clearly not using this word correctly.Quote:
unconstructive
Racist.Quote:
and using the word "fuck" every second sentence?
Well I am glad that intellectually at least, your recognize that people should be moderated strictly because you disagree with their statements. That's progress of a sort.Quote:
Also he is very much wrong (not that being wrong should be moderated but it makes his post even more annoying).
No. This is for several reasons,Quote:
Hey IBA, are you as sure about all your posts as you were about Batterskull and Jace TMS being unplayable. I remember you posting "you fucks this is Legacy you can't play these crappy expensive cards" about both of them?
1) Those are two cases of probably hundreds we have discussed over the years regarding new cards. Usually, if anything, I err too much on the side of rating a new card as playable (although of course what is playable is not the same as what is played for a host of reasons). Jace I misvalued for several reasons, many the same as R&D: There hadn't been a reusable Fateseal ability before to gauge against, and there hadn't been a four-function Planeswalker before. Batterskull I did not foresee being played in a pure-control shell, but then neither did anyone else. In those shells it's reasonable, although I'm not sure if it will stand the test of time. In creature-based decks, which is what the SCD thread was about, it has already been largely dropped; most of the successful Maverick lists did not use it, in fact.
2) Scryb Ranger and Mangara are not new cards or unknown factors. They are known quantities. Scryb Ranger is in utility a 2x as expensive version of another card with flying as a big whopping deal.
I think you are exactly trying to say that someone can't be wrong about stuff.Quote:
Not that people can't be wrong about stuff, we all are, but it just reminds me.
If someone isn't wrong about things then they aren't trying hard enough and they're being intellectual cowards. I fully admit I misevaluated Jace. As far as arguments for why Scryb Ranger is playable goes that one's pretty terrible.
If you think that pieces of cardboard can be condescended to, or you take it as a personal attack that someone insults your card, stop, walk away from the computer, and take a six month sabbatical from Magic.Quote:
With the exact same condescending attitude you sold it as if everyone who thought Batterskull or Jace TMS were even remotely playable in this format was completely retarded.
I posted actual numbers backing my point. Do you want to make a counter-argument? I mean these are not the Halls of Congress, I do not think the mods consider it a life-altering decision to change the first letter in brackets in the thread's title. The reality is that this was put in the DTB section based on an incredible variance of decklists that fully justifies describing it as an archetype.Quote:
I honestly can't believe that the mods changed the topic of this thread just because of this. IBA and Zilla have their history but this is still ridiculous. I have not experienced biased Mods on an important topic on this site so far and it is not a pleasant premiere.
You are trying to say that my writing style is bad because if you remove X, Y, and Z then it suddenly doesn't make any sense.Quote:
And now let me carefully explain to you just how bad IBA's post was:
a) writing style: if you would remove all filler words like "clearly", "in the year of the lord", "obvious", "fuck" etc. and then cut all the mocking then the post would not be very long anymore.
Did you know that if you removal every other vowel and the word 'the' Shakespeare reads like a retard.
Right, which is why I explicitly said that my post was based on the decks that actually performed and not people in this thread saying that X Y or Z was a "core card" based on their own opinion.Quote:
b) core: He is criticizing that there is no core to the list. Which is basically the only statement of his expletive-inflated post.
The base list that he presents is deceptive. He uses only 15 lands which might be the result of statistical filtering but says absolutely nothing. It is just normal that people use different Fetchlands and different fetchable lands for different expected Metagames. He also uses only 3 GSZ, no Mother of Runes, 2 Qasali Pridemages, 2 SFMs and 2 KotR.
But if you followed the discussion over last pages a core list with more of each of the cards mentioned above was clearly visible.
There is a very viable argument that Legacy is moving more towards archetypes than decks per se, mostly modular decklists dominating, a few exceptions like Merfolk aside. Even under such an argument however, these decks are high offenders. Like there are actually different threads for color combinations of Landstill, and that is a deck that has a clear and distinct core strategy (manlands + Standstill as a draw engine) that differentiates it from the format.Quote:
If you disect decks like this you would have to rename Landstill, MUC and Zoo to "archetype" instead of "deck" too. It is just the nature of these decks to vary because of the many cards with a similar power level. If Wizards would print a 6/6 Tombstalker for a few Mana more I am sure the same would happen to Team America.
Flash is not relevant on a 1x Scryb Ranger because you are casting it with GSZ.Quote:
c) Scryb Ranger is better than Tarmogoyf in most Maverick lists. The synergies with Mother of Runes, Noble Hierarch and KotR make Rangers so good. Paying one Mana more to upgrade a Quirion Ranger with 3 very useful abilities and frequently productive abilities is very much worth it.
And since you're casting it with GSZ, 3 mana is much more than 2 mana.
Flying and pro-blue are relevant but not on a 1/1 unless it's equipped in which case it already has much more relevant abilities. And since the slot is utility, not equipment carrying, it seems less than worthwhile to run it over the original.
Winning the game is something I want my creatures to do, but I can understand that if you enjoy piddling around with untap effects for a bunch of turns instead of just killing the other guy that it may not be something you want to do.Quote:
ATM the correct number of Tarmogoyfs is either 1 or 0. It does nothing that the deck wants a creature to do.
Wow it's amazing how you're arguing my point for me.Quote:
d) Sylvan Library. Yeah, why isn't card draw/filtering an Auto Include in an aggressive Tempo deck without Reach? My goodness. There was a discussion about this and we agreed on the card being good but no auto-include. A final conclusion on such a topic is just not possible because of the high variance of the card just like with Elspeth, Knight Errant.
If you can't even have a coherent conversation about Sylvan Library then it's not a decktype.
PS You can anyway. Play Sylvan Library.
PPS Most of these lists are not aggressive. Also describing a deck as "tempo-oriented" makes me want to start pulling teeth. EVERY DECK IS TEMPO ORIENTED IT UTILIZES INTERNAL SYNERGIES TO CROSS-COMPATIBALIZE STREAMLINED INNOVATIONS.
You're flailing, I clearly demonstrated that the deck has no core at all beyond "some g/w deck using Zeniths."Quote:
On a side note, how safe is the credibility of the site if Friend A of Mod B just hijacks a DTB forum thread and changes its topic while having put up neither any kind of results nor a single constructive sentence to its discussion.
I have not actually insulted the deck itself because Zenith is a great card btw, I just think Scryb Ranger is terrible and Mangara-Vial is more cute than effective.
I did not post a Zoo list in this thread, soooooooo...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
Running 1 + GSZ is significantly better than running 0, obviously. Winning the game seems to be consistently under-rated.Quote:
Running more than 1-of Goyf is wrong in Maverick - better pick up Scavenging Ooze which is Goyf killer, and also great in KotR fight.
Survival had a distinct core component. Even then it was an archetype. There were different threads for different builds. With no distinct core component except GSZ, Maverick is clearly then an archetype by your own admission. I'm glad we've come to an agreement then.Quote:
Maverick is a toolbox deck - you pick up meta slots and elements which best fit to your playstyle - it's similar to Survival decks.
Again, I have accidentally built decks in this vein several times on MWS. GSZ is a really cool card and g/w obviously has a lot of great cards. And certainly if nothing else I'm glad to see a deck playing Witness again. But the deck being described as a DTB is clearly erroneous as it stands.
You're probably not very good with Zoo.Quote:
Next word about Scryb Ranger - if you don't see its abilities and think its 1/1 prot U vanilia forget about playing this deck - its much more skill intensive than burn/sligh/zoo ;].
I am pretty sure you do not need to pay 2x as much for pro blue if you already have Mother of Runes, SoFI and Jitte. Like if there were a four mana KotR that had pro blue, I would not advocate running it over the 3 mana version, would you? It's like Quirion Ranger has this super relevant ability called hyper-haste where it can enter the board a turn earlier. That is an important ability.Quote:
This little dude has a lot of great interactions in this deck (so does Quirion Ranger) I think Scryb is more universal not only for Merfolks where its wall and claw vs them, but also vs Cliques, Jaces, Thopters, Trygons etc.
I'm good.Quote:
Sorry if I was too personal tell me if you been touched by it.
Also Loaming Shaman.Quote:
Scavenging Ooze - its brutal vs them.
KotR -> Karakas - shut down Iona lock/GJCA - u can Zenith it under Iona on White.
Bojuka Bog - also good
Maze of Ith - gives time for next reanimation
Tromod's Crypt under Tutor
Scryb Ranger + Equips (specially with SoLS) can block and attack under Iona Lock.
Mental Missteps (obv).
This is not what the opening post suggests. If the thread is to be in the DTB section it ought to do so in a manner in line with reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik
Alright. /cracks knuckles
1) Content first, niceness second: this is a cardinal guideline for the Source. It doesn't matter how many 'fucking' you put in your post as long as your arguments have meat. We have no intention of forcing people to pretend they respect ideas even when they're convinced otherwise. That way lies MTGSalvation.
This might be an interesting link on the topic.
(Also, there may be a bit of cross-Atlantic incomprehension going on here. Fellow Europeans: lots of Americans love to shout and pretend they're badasses in everyday conversation, it's just part of their culture and to them it sounds normal. What can you expect?)
2) However, what are not tolerated are personal attacks. Call a deck a pile of shit, call a play fucking retarded, call a strategy the dumbest idea since Operation Unthinkable: as long as you also explain why those things are so bad, that's all fine and good and useful. The moment you call someone else an idiot, however, you're not writing anything useful: you're only making the discussion nastier without saying anything. You don't know that guy and as far as you're concerned he might be a genius in every field other than Magic. Shut up.
3) Regarding mod bias: CorpT's post consisted of "You're so smart, IBA. /pats IBA on head." I hope that says everything about why it was deleted while IBA and Tao weren't.
4) As our DTB process currently stands (i.e. follow The Council), there is absolutely no functional difference between a "Deck" and an "Archetype" To Beat. It's a relic of the old system, and a purely cosmetic description of "This deck has more deckbuilding options than usual"; Survival, pre-Vengevine, was the typical example (And yes, I personally don't care about this distinction). So no, the rules haven't been altered.
So: Tao, IBA, Fatal, do continue this conversation. There is a legitimate question of what exactly Maverick is, if for no other reason than that many of our users had never heard of it before it was put under the spotlight and don't quite understand it.
Just remember that, as far as this thread is concerned, and unless there's a really really good reason to disagree with them, the "Maverick" category at TCDecks is the measure of what does and does not belong here.
So since my question got overshadowed by shenanigans and asshattery, in my best Cartman voice, "Screw you guys, I'm playing Primordial Hydra."
Mother of Runes plus a 3-drop who becomes a 32/32 trampler in 5 turns is enticing. It makes playing on the defensive an actual strategy.
Also, while I agree Scryb Ranger is garbage in this deck, so's Tarmogoyf. The deck has very little means to pump him, and he's very often a vanilla 2/3 given that your creatures don't die, you exile theirs, your sorceries shuffle themselves back in, and graveyards tend to end up with lands and instants a lot. Basically, Goyf's only good in matchups where you sacrifice a Pridemage. And in those matchups, just run more Pridemages.
No, I said that your post would still make as much sense as before and would be more pleasant to read if you would remove the 99% filler words and expletives.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
If you draw it you cast it from your hand. And tutoring for a flying creature is not rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
We had a coherent discussion about Sylvan Library. The result was that it is good, but not an auto-include. It is somewhere around the 58th- 63rd card of the deck, some value it a bit higher, some a bit lower. A more exact evaluation is impossible. Go ahead and play it if you think it is good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Capslock doesn't mean that you are right. If I call a deck Tempo oriented it means that it cares for Tempo plays much more than other decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
BUGstill does not care about Tempo at all unless you force them to do something. If you wouldn't act then they wouldn't act on their own except for dropping Standstill to prevent any Tempo. They play cheap spells and counters to stay alive and to clear the path for Standstill but they do not care about creating a Tempo advantage in the slightest.
Many Zoo decks for example care more for life totals than GW and less about Tempo. Which is why they use PtE instead of Swords to Plowshares and high P/T creatures instead of utility creatures (Steppy Lynx over MoR, Goyf over other options). Which leads me to this:
More filler words and sentences. Every card is played to win the game. And I am sure that in Maverick Scryb Ranger wins more games than Goyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Whenever I discussed this topic with the other people in this thread I knew they had played the deck. With you I just know that you don't have more than a couple of games on MWS as experience with this. Goyf is just not good in this deck atm, not even close or worth a discussion.
Your deck does not care about tempo more than most decks. All decks care about tempo, or are unplayable in Legacy. How they try to gain and maintain tempo is what varies. It is tempo to kill your land or counter a spell or Wrath the board or play a big threat.
Also there is a difference between "filler words" and "things you disagree with", unless you glaze over everything that doesn't fit into your narrative in which case I concede they are pretty much the same thing.
I would be interested in hearing what the explanation is for this "tempo oriented" deck not wanting huge creatures incidentally.
Also as far as I can tell this archetype is something the Hatfields have been fiddling with for quite a while. It would also include most NO-Bant variants. It is not an archetype I am unfamiliar with, which was my entire point; it describes a host of things that are different and already exist, ranging from big Zoo to Bant to I guess even Junk variants and D&T and numerous other things.
But I mean your arguments seem to mainly be describing things you don't like as filler and a badly thought out courtier's reply so
I guess I made a mistake posting my list in this thread. I was under the impression that Maverick was a GWx Midrange deck that supports a Stoneforge package, not a GWU Midrange Deck. I decided not to post in the Zoo thread because they are currently discussing Glittering Wish which is just not worth my time, I was hoping that this thread would be a little more constructive. Now I find out this thread refuses to play Tarmogoyf, the best creature ever printed, along with Wild Nacatl, the best one drop ever printed, Stoneforge, the best white creature ever printed, in conjunction with Knight of the Reliquary, the best three drop ever printed, and Lightnting Bolt and StP, the best removal spells ever printed. But you'd rather equip to feeble 1/1's instead of 4/5's. Someone mentioned that one should start playing more Goyfs depending on your metagame, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. It's a sad day when people start to forget the power of Tarmogoyf. You don't need a GSZ toolbox when you can just play 8x Goyfs, 8x Nacatls, and 7x Knights.
My deck cuts the cute tricks brought to you by Mother of Runes and the Rangers, and instead just plays big dudes, good removal, and practical equipment. And I got 10th at a 300 person tournament.
Sorry for posting a list with results. I suggest this thread gets its shit together and starts playing good cards.
Alright, to everyone who is too ignorant to accept that this is, in fact, a real deck that is actually putting up huge numbers (albeit in Europe, not in America), and too lazy/stubborn to actually read through this entire thread (yeah, i know, reading through like ten pages is such a tiresome task) and actually look through successful decklists, here is the core of GW Maverick. These cards are directly based off of the discussions in this thread and the decklists that have placed on TCDecks.
Creatures:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3-4 Noble Hierarch
3-4 Mother of Runes
2-3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
1 Terravore
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of X and Y
1 Batterskull
2 Sylvan Library/Elspeth split
Lands :
4 Windswept Heath
2 G fetchland
3-4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
2-3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
3-4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
0-1 Gaea's Cradle
Now, on to the discussion of the absence of GOyf, it isn't played because 2/3's for 2 aren't good enough for legacy play. We play four instants and 4 sorceries that get shuffled into our libraries. Relying on our opponents playing spells to make our creatures better just isn't a good idea.
Now, please, either show me another deck that plays these 50+ cards or stop trolling in our thread and allow us to further discuss the improvement of our deck.
Thanks, seems like a fine core.
Maybe we can discuss the new Shapeshifter from M12? He has the evasiveness the deck wants, while also being able to act as a wall. One more nail in Goyfs coffin? Maybe it could even replace Terravore?
Also, since Commander is already legal, are there already some experiences with Scavengig Ooze?
I played 2 tournaments and a lot of testing on Cockatrice with Scavenging Ooze and I can say it is MVP in Goyfs/KotRs war, also its auto-include hate vs Dredge/Reanimator/Loam based decks it will definitely be one MD.
New Shapeshifter looks promising but since it's not legal or even in virtual play (Cockatrice/MWS ect) we can't say anything more about it.
But it's a slippery slope. If x = U, it's Bant; if x = B, it's The Rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by TossUsToLions
If x=B it would be one of the most aggressive Rock version, I don't see place for Hymns, Thoughtseizes, Vindicates, Deeds here. U can say also that all blue decks which have 4 x FoW, 4 x Missteps, 4 Brainstorms is the same sorry its wrong - game plan is important, also here. Splash with B brings mostly Confidants sometimes 2-3 Vindicates nothing more so its far from Rock List.
If you're looking at this decklist from a perspective of a Zoo player, then yes the conclusion you have becomes imminent. However, the basis of the deck isn't "efficient beatsticks + removal spells". It's a toolbox deck that utilizes three powerful tutors:Quote:
Originally Posted by Guevera59
a) Green Sun's Zenith
b) Stoneforge Mystic
c) Knight of the Reliquary
This lumps the deck into three distinct groups -
1) green creatures
- Terravore
- Qasali Pridemage
- Thrun
- Tarmogoyf (sometimes - it only becomes effective against other Tarmogoyf decks)
- Knight of the Reliquary
2) equipment
- chose 2-4 of the following - Batterskull, Sword of X and Y, Umezawa's Jitte, Manriki-Gusari
3) utility lands
- Wasteland
- Horizon Canopy
- Maze of Ith
- Gaea's Cradle
This deck contains many synergies which play off each other. This deck is NOT like Zoo in that it just casts cheap efficient threats to overwhelm/race the opponent who cannot keep up. This is the reason why this deck has a great control matchup, where Zoo falters and dies to any mass removal spell, or trump. This deck is a series of Trump-cards, rather than a collection of redundant threats.
That's neat that you got 10th in a tournament of 300. Here's a list that got 10th in a tournament of 600+:
//NAME: Zenith GW - Niklas Kronberger - 10th @ BOM 5
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Temple Garden
4 Savannah
1 Plains
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast And Famine
1 Batterskull
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun And Moon
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Serenity
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
@IBA: There is no need for a philiosphocal discussion. Your post was flat out awful. It had two short statements that were inflated with vulgarities and condescension. I made these statements Italic and bold for you. If you find any more actual content in your jabbering feel free to inform me.
Statement one was "everybody who doesn't play multiple Tarmogoyfs, Elspeths and Sylvan Libraries is wrong". Library and Elspeth have been discussed before and the Goyf statement pretty much says that the last 40+guys (no time to check every single list) who top8ed with Maverick are idiots. Have your opinion, but try to respect other people's test results and tournament success over your own theory.
The second statement was "Maverick is an archetype and not a deck because it has no core except for Lands, GSZ, KotR, SFM and StoP", supported by a short statistic about the last ten Maverick decks on TCD that shows that these decks only have 33 cards in common.
Unfortunately such a statistic is quite pointless because by taking a ton of decks you will always have one not playing this fetchland, one not playing Canopies and one thinking that Mother of Runes is not needed.
On top of that in a deck with usually 12 tutors the Tutor targets obviously vary without changing anything about the functionality or strategy of the deck. Morte has listed a core of this deck here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post561942 but reading the thread before posting was too much to ask for. A vast majority of the decks on TCG will not vary from that 48 card core by more than 2 cards.
Also, FWIW, this would make Deadguy Ale an archetype and not a deck, as the only three cards I've ever seen present in every single maindeck have been Scrubland, Swamp, and Dark Confidant, and the current lists are at least as scattered as Maverick.
I guess my point is that lists vary highly. My Maverick is missing a few core cards because I designed my build independent but chronologically at around the same time as Maverick. I've since picked up on some ideas from the thread and now just count the deck/archetype as Maverick. I don't think whether it's a deck or an archetype matters much. The line's pretty blurry.
The first maverick list is this one:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [FUT] Treetop Village
// Creatures
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
4 [B] Birds of Paradise
// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
2 [5E] Sylvan Library
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
It was played in Spain even before than the arrival of vengevines. But it was after the survival of the fittest restriction when the deck had more success. The most decks had the same 55-60 cards.
When GSZ was printed, most people began to play it in maverick, adding a green creatures tool box, and keeping the core. The changes were:
GSZ instead of aether vial
GSZ toolbox instead wayfarer
Some people changed deck name to GW zenith
So, GW zenith decks seems like a maverick update, and now all people play with GSZ.
@M@verick - yeap I agree with you that was one of the earliest list of this deck - it changes a lot from printing GSZ as metion in primer.
I have a new problem, I read on merfolks forum that they found new gun against us - Cursed Totem - this card looks quite problematic in this MU it look down most of our creatures, and can't be blow up from Qasali Pridemage - that the bad news. We can still approach but without KotR cycling/tutoring, Scryb vingilance, and SFM equip cheat in to play this MU looks much harder. If Maverick become more popular we can face this card more often. Actual sideboard has only Krosan Grips against it (which never been sided before against them).
Solutions:
1. Harmonic Sliver or other etb green creature which destroys artifacts, so each GSZ would be an out.
2. Seal of Cleansing/Seal of Primordium under E.Tutor - rather bad out better Krosans
any others ?
So, what do you think about Edric, spymaster of trest?
I've been wondering that would he be worthy of maindeck or sideboard slot, nice addition to the GSZ toolbox we have, but we do have Sylvan Library already.
So far here's my list:
23 //Creatures:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness
3 Stoneforge mystic
10 //Other:
4 Green sun's Zenith
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 //Removal:
4 Swords to Plowshares
22 //Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
3 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
15 //Sideboard:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Null Rod
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Path to Exile
So, that should be about 59 + 15 cards, if the numbers are off something's missing or there's too much of something. Anyways, I'm trying to think about whether should I play Edric or not. Have any thoughts or advice about him? Haven't had the time to test him at all and would appreciate if you could chip in. I'm also thinking about whether to add Mirran Crusader or not, he just can be such a hit and miss for most of the time.
The one remaining spot is a fight between Karakas, Elspeth, Edric, Tarmogoyf, Qasali Pridemage, mystery equipment X, Sylvan Library, Kitchen Finks and Rhox War Monk.
@Machahiko
First off, 20 Lands plus a Maze seem to be not enough, you should atleast add a Karakas for obvious reasons. This deck wants every mana it can possibly get and with only 1 Ranger you dont want to miss landdrops in the early game.
About Dryad Arbor. Why dont you play him? This is the first deck posted in this thread which refuses to play him. Consider to test him. If you already did, you might give us some feedback.
Of course he can screw some openers from time to time, but tutoring for ramp which can also stop first turn lackey and carry equipment sounds nice to me and imho this is proven.
Sword of Body and Mind over Batterskull must be a metachoice, as so much Jace protection looks like an overkill plus the massive amount of control hate in your SB and a MD Thrun on top of that.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bzka
Thanks for the reply, I was sure that I had missed something when doing this decklist and it actually was Dryad Arbor. It's already in my deck but for some reason I just completely missed it and didn't write it down. I'm 100% on dryad arbor, it's an auto include which I just missed.
Regarding Sword of Body and Mind and Batterskull: I've had this fight going on about whether to play Body of Mind or Light and Shadow, and I can't really come up with anything to say about this. It's a constant back and forth which sword to play and I've come to same conclusion about swords with ivanpei (he has a thread about SFM equipment in Format & Article discussion, great read). The only thing that would make me want to change body and mind away is the overlapping protection from blue. Having 2 swords for 4 colors to protect could be worth playing a bit worse sword.
Batterskull, oh how do I hate thee. My personal opinion is that I don't really like the card and I think it doesn't even fit so well into the deck.
Thank you for your input, I have to keep on thinking about my sideboard if there's something that I have missed.
While in my testing I found Maze of Ith to be irrelevant, I did end up losing two matches where it would have played an integral part of winning. I lost two matches to a SoBM when I failed to draw GSZ/STP/QPM or a white creature. Once against UW StoneBlade, and again against Zoo.
I may consider putting Maze in the SB again, because it felt like a sting to run so cold against these two matches.
Overall, I felt it was unneeded in the maindeck.
tl;dr: Maze of Ith is good against Equipment.
You seem curiously obsessed with this point. Almost as if you need it to be true and need others to confirm this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
You are of course free to think as you like, I just think it's an interesting preoccupation.
There were a number of points in my posts, but of course you know this, and this is again part of an attempt to marginalize what you must see as a threat to some concept you find important.Quote:
It had two short statements that were inflated with vulgarities and condescension. I made these statements Italic and bold for you. If you find any more actual content in your jabbering feel free to inform me.
That is not what I said.Quote:
Statement one was "everybody who doesn't play multiple Tarmogoyfs, Elspeths and Sylvan Libraries is wrong".
Legacy manabases all look pretty much the same, and the remaining cards except for GSZ were entirely ubiquitous to the format. I think it's fair to ask what separates the deck from Zoo or Junk or Bant besides not wanting to splash the third color.Quote:
The second statement was "Maverick is an archetype and not a deck because it has no core except for Lands, GSZ, KotR, SFM and StoP", supported by a short statistic about the last ten Maverick decks on TCD that shows that these decks only have 33 cards in common.
However, I accept that you consider this an unreliable litmus test.
Well, first of all, the deck does not usually have 12 tutors. In fact I didn't see any lists running 4 SFM, 4 Knight and 4 GSZ of the ten. So I don't even know what you're basing that on.Quote:
On top of that in a deck with usually 12 tutors the Tutor targets obviously vary without changing anything about the functionality or strategy of the deck.
Secondly, Knight and Stoneforge are ubiquitous, so arguing that running those cards and any of a changing rotation of targets leaves the core intact seems hopeless to me.
Thirdly I have no idea why you think the actual nature of the targets you can grab doesn't change the functionality of the deck. This seems like a prima facie absurd argument. Of course it matters what you actually tutor for, that's the entire point of the tutors in the first place.
I obviously did read the thread, that was the point of saying that I was basing my post on what actually posted results (although not weighted, granted, for tournament size), not on some gut feeling.Quote:
Morte has listed a core of this deck here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post561942 but reading the thread before posting was too much to ask for.
Partisanship towards a deck doesn't actually qualify one to speak of it with more authority. The opposite if anything. There are clearly quite a lot of courtiers in this thread that are very upset that I don't appreciate the subtleties to the emperor's new wardrobe.
Well let's look again.Quote:
A vast majority of the decks on TCG will not vary from that 48 card core by more than 2 cards.
You said,
I'll ignore the ironies that abound here for a moment and simply take your number, which you have "no time to check."Quote:
the Goyf statement pretty much says that the last 40+guys (no time to check every single list) who top8ed with Maverick are idiots. Have your opinion, but try to respect other people's test results and tournament success over your own theory.
Of the past 40 listed decks, this would be the average decklist:
3.85 Noble Hierarch
3.325 Mother of Runes
0.5 Birds of Paradise
0.275 Quirion Ranger
2.675 Stoneforge Mystic
2.55 Qasali Pridemage
1.325 Scryb Ranger
0.775 Tarmogoyf
0.5 Gaddock Teeg
0.35 Fauna Shaman
0.075 Scavenging Ooze
3.775 Knight of the Reliquary
1.225 Aven Mindcensor
0.8 Eternal Witness
0.575 Terravore
0.375 Mirran Crusader
0.15 Rhox War Monk
0.05 Kitchen Finks
0.05 Mangara of Corondor
0.025 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
0.025 Phyrexian Metamorph
0.575 Thrun, the Last Troll
0.25 Rafiq of the Many
0.15 Vengevine
0.025 Baneslayer Angel
0.025 Primeval Titan
0.05 Loyal Retainers
0.05 Iona, Shield of Emeria
0.625 Natural Order
0.2 Progenitus
0.375 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
0.05 Garruk Wildspeaker
3.975 Swords to Plowshares
3.65 Green Sun's Zenith
0.4 Mental Misstep
0.4 Aether Vial
0.075 Brainstorm
0.075 Spell Pierce
0.025 Path to Exile
0.925 Sylvan Library
0.075 Oblivion Ring
0.05 Beast Within
0.025 Scrounge (?)
1.125 Umezawa's Jitte
0.55 Sword of Fire and Ice
0.475 Sword of Light and Shadow
0.45 Batterskull
0.4 Sword of Feast and Famine
0.05 Sword of Body and Mind
0.025 Sword of War and Peace
3.95 Windswept Heath
3.65 Savannah
3.3 Wasteland
2.225 Horizon Canopy
1.975 Forest
1.3 Plains
1.15 Dryad Arbor
0.95 Karakas
0.875 Misty Rainforest
0.625 Wooded Foothills
0.6 Gaea's Cradle
0.55 Maze of Ith
0.25 Tropical Island
0.25 Verdant Catacombs
0.1 Temple Garden
0.05 Bojuka Bog
0.05 Flooded Strand
0.05 Marsh Flats
0.025 Yavimaya Hollow
0.025 Kor Haven
0.025 Petrified Field
0.025 Sejiri Steppe
0.025 Stirring Wildwood
Or rounding:
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Terravore
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 other equipment
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Other fetchland or random utility land
Some interesting notes here; Italians are fucking in love with Aven Mindcensor, and Germans but nobody else really love the package of Jitte/Batterskull/SoFF, with the latter two seeing almost no play without each other for some reason. Most others seem to be opting for the "old school" suite of SoLS + SoFI + Jitte.
Anyway, based on this number crunching I am forced to conclude that I was wrong. There is in fact a deck, given some not-too-unusual-for-Legacy amount of (largely regional) variation, in Europe that has a coherent core and can be referred to as "Maverick." However, in light of this the thread and opening post should be cleaned up as they are totally inaccurate, and many people seem to be trying to co-opt the success of a fairly narrow core to primp out their own variations like the Death and Taxes shell, which has simply not put up any relevant numbers.
Or put another way, there is a deck called Maverick that has earned a spot in the DTB section based on a string of performances in Europe, and there is an archetype of the same name, and the confusion between the two needs sorting out.
I think I'll have to put together a list and test it out against the East Coast meta, because the core of what people are actually playing looks mainly really good except for the points I already mentioned about how Scryb Ranger is terrible and 2x Library should be mandatory (which is one thing the Germans mostly seem to be doing right). The Hatfields were working for quite a while on a similar list also so maybe they have some good ideas.
Managed to find time for a daily at last. The only form of legacy play I'm able to get these days it seems..
4-0'd, as I usually do with my gw build. Just felt like dropping by and giving my opinion on some of the more contradictory card choices.
( the list, if you're interested is here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital.../tourn/2512262 )
1) sylvan library: imo has no place in the deck. Tested it as a one or two of for some months, gave up when I finally realized there is never a good time to drop it. You want to deploy dudes on the early turns, and later on you'd just rather draw a dude than a card that eventually will find you one. Sure, it's good in attrition wars, but this deck outperforms the competition in those anyways..
2) aven mindcensor: my newfound love. I play mirrans for long, but those are no longer the "tech" imo. BUG decks are not that popular anymore, and avens help in the mu's where the rest of the deck is weaker. I feel like they balance the deck out very nicely, but that is a flex slot obv.
3) tarmogoyf: Raw power is nice to have when all your cute trickery stuff gets counterred, killed or kidnapped. I admit, he is not as strong as he used to be, but he does carry his weight very easily still. Good against control decks, merfolk decks, goblin decks, tarmogoyf decks.. Also fits the curve very nicely.
4) X ranger: I tried, i swear i tried. I never got to do any sweet stuff with these, as I'd just rather have a real creature when I GSZ, and when I drew them they were just plain embarrassing. You want to play them, sure. I'll just keep on reading that as "+1 tarmogoyf" in decklists packing them.
5) Elspeth: this one was really good, but not needed. Always considering these when I make changes but they never quite make it.
6) Batterskull: not needed in the md, but imo sb worthy at the very least. Against some decks this is your main game plan, and it does really shine against other attrition based board control strategies.
7) Gaeas Cradle: I cut a spell to make room for this, as I saw it as a combo with batterskull. It is more than that. Sometimes you have a KOTR out and you just find this and go nuts and they never saw it coming. Been really, really impressed by this one and I feel like one of those people from advertisements when I just want to smile and say "I don't know how I managed without it".
8) Sword of Feast and Famine: best in the mu's where you need the extra help. Also the discard effect keeps on getting people, for some reason they don't see it coming from GW beats. Relevant prots, relevant abilities. I like it.
9)3 pridemage: I'd love 4, but the 3-3 split between tarmo and him is because I have a 62 card md atm, and I solved that by cutting 2 cards I know I want 4 of, but that I know I don't need 4 of. Not the smartest thing if you want to win one tournament, but most helpful in finding the actually correct cuts for the longer run.
I'd love to contribute more to this thread now that one exists and I no longer have to develop this on my own, but I do not only have very limited time these days, but I keep getting the feeling people try to take this deck in an entirely wrong direction and therefore misevaluate card choices. Might be me also.
Thanks a lot for this post, it honestly makes you much more credible. And I agree that the opening post could use an update. It could show the original "Maverick" list (the deck's history) that M@averick posted along with how it changed to the core that you yourself showed with statistics. It could also talk about some of the possible cards that can be used in the many flex-spots that the deck has.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
I will fix it in first post of primer.
Edit: Update, thank you guys for your data.
Just top4ed on Polish Championships and split.
2 Mavericks in top8. I'm too tired to write up more, tomorrow i will write a little more.
Won Rievised boosters one opened with Tropical Island..
I hate being an idiot but what does ATB mean?
"Archetype to beat"
We're just better than everyone, because Archetype is more cool sounding than Deck. Or something like that...
ahh thanks ye was looking at last months meta at TC and maverick was running 3rd first was Zoo then merfolk
Congrats on the finish, Fatal. Would you be able to post the deck that you played when you get a chance?
Ok quick report (tomorrow next tournament) there is actually Nationals in our country so don't have a lot of time to write.
List:
//Main
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Eternal Witness
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island
1 Terravore
3 Mental Misstep
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Misty Rainforest
//SB(15):
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Choke
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip
2 Wing Shards
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Life from the Loam
1 Serenity
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Meta - decks which i remember:
3 Maverick
2 No-FoW Bant
Enchantresska
Sneak
Claw-blade
Team America
TES
BUG Jace Control
Affinity
Aggro Loam RGb
Drake Fish U/w
Junk
NO RUG
And a lot more of which i don't remember
Round 1 - Claw-Blade U/w 2-0
MVP - Scryb Ranger and SoLS both games they won me the game.
Game 1:
Opponent starts from Visions, then counter few things and stp like KotRs/Goyfs/Hierarchs, then GSZ for 2, mana exeleration and SFM resolve. I equip next turn Scryb Ranger with SoLS then I have way to victory protected from all stuff whan he could stop me, bloking Batterskull, killing Jaces and swinging..
Side in:
2 Choke, Krosan Grip, 2 Wing Shards
Side out:
Scavenging Ooze, Batterskull, Rafiq of the Many, Mental Misstep, Terravore - suspect GY hate after side, like relic
Game 2 was much faster, just fast KotR resolve, with Scryb on hand, them waste, waste, and second KotR - GG without any sb cards.
Round 2 - Merfolks - that will be shame - 1-2
Game 1:
He had stifles, which I met in first game vs my wasteland on his mutavault. Again I won with Scryb Ranger in the skies blocking and attacking on tripple exalted.
Side in:
2 Chokes, 2 Wing Shards, SoFI
Side out:
Scavenging Ooze, Rafiq of the Many, Terravore, SoLS, 1 Aven Mindcensor
Game 2:
This time my opponent have porno draws, counter everything and pushing me with Jiite on Cursecatcher - I drew 4 stp, and return one from Eternal Witness so 5 stp.. but couldn't handle with Silvergill Adept advantage.. I didn't draw any creatures and GSZ expect Hierarchs and Witness, I finally stopped him with maze, but wasteland end the game.
Game 3:
This time I had advantage drawing Jitte on start which resolve, pushing with Hierarch then, With Arbor after he Chumped with Mutavaults, and few dudes. Couldn't drew any creatures, finally I drew batterskull which was really tap me out to cast - then he just play threads of disloyalty on token and swinging, I requip to kill 4/4 lifelinker on hierarch, then Sower, I kill it with Jitte, then next threads of disloyalty kill me - no other dudes comes to my hand - that was really bad draws with nuts opposite.
Round 3 - Junk
Game 1
First game was tide after all Ooze here was MVP cleaning the graveyard, punishing 2 Goyfs and KotR on opponent side.
Side in:
Bojuka Bog, 2 Wing Shards
Side out:
1 Scryb Ranger, 1 Maze of Ith, 1 Rafiq of the Many
Game 2
Opponent lose to his deck - Wasteland on his colored mana, then Goyf, he hymn me and that was gg after second wasteland.
Round 4:
Drake Fish U/w with SFM and snap/gilded drakes
Game 1:
Again Scryb was MVP here, also with Rafiq which gives ultimate tempo and dodge Spellshutters Sprites.
Side in: 2 Chokes, 1 Krosan Grip, SoFI
Side out: 1 Scavenging Ooze, Batterskull, 1 Terravore, 1 Eternal Witness - last one was wrong.
Game 2:
I opened with really good controlish hand, with Wing Shards, StP, 1 hierarch, Krosan Grip, Mental Misstep, 2 lands. I played controlish and allow my opponent to fetch jitte, few fearies, then make my tricks drawing nuts from the top - GSZ and SFM. I blow up jitte at the end of turn, and try to StP mystic at the and also he MM, I MM, he fowed and have no cards in hand. Then I played my SFM and fetching Jitte, he draw mystic and play own jitte to blow up mine. Then I zenith for 3 for Eternal Witness which was missing ... I found Scryb, then draw an other mystic and make job with SoLS and game was ended fast.
Again MVP was Scryb with SoLS - after this match all tournament know that Scryb with SoLS on it is more dangerous than Choke having only Islands..
Round 5: ID - with Sneak my friend Puchat.
We goes for dinner before top8 and wanted to split out all top8 - Revised boosters waiting, it was about 8 p.m. Unfortunately one guy doesn't agree and we played..
Quater-finals - Sneak :(
This MU isn't good - specially that:
When opponent play S&T and we put Metamorph to face emrakul/progenitus - Metamorph dies as 0/0 creature because he can't copy creature putted in the same time to play via S&T - lvl 4 judge confirm that so game gonna be harder than i suspect.
My only chance will be bad opponent hand, and countering cantrips with MM, fast clock, and mana screw due to wastelands, Censors.
Game 1: - My opponent doesn't have to good hand he cast sneak after 2 wastelands being on 5 life and Goyf + Scryb was in play - 7 pernaments.. he swing and died to goyf.
Side in:
Phyrexian Metamorph,2 Wing Shards, Gaddock Teeg, 2 Choke, E.Tutor (forgot about serenity which would also help - which I found after 3 next games in freeplay)
Side out: 4 StP, Scavenging Ooze, 1 Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull (last one also could be mistake).
Game 2: After MM cantrip, he cantrip again, then S&T Hydra into play. I had Goyf and hierarch, putting SFM and fetching... SoLS which won me this race :) Swinging without block to hydra and putting my life upper than 20 mean GG. He attack then firespout my smaller dudes - I swing and puting back Hierarch for lethal :).
After 4 free play games it was 3-3.
Semi-finals: Clawblade U/W it was 9 p.m and was really tired after 11 hours playing/trading.
We was talking about split but there was 18 boosters from Revised to we played for one booster more, before play we probably made one of the craziest thing and open booster on which we was playing.. and... Tropical Island booster Mint ;P before we decide what's next, 3 guys offer us to buy it. We sell it and playing for cash.
Game 1:
He won the roll, suspend Visions and go. I fetch, hierarch, go. He draw, land drop go. Then KotR -> brainstorm -> resolve, then again in next round, KotR, Brainstorm.. resolve :) Also Terravore resolve before Visions.. Which was 16/16.. 2 Milling KotRs in play. Then he StP Vore and Jace bounce the KotR, Swing KotR.. SFM gg
Game 2:
This one was so long that only one judge stays on whole event. I killed 3 Jaces, 4 SFM, one Batterskull, survive 4 StP, 4 FoWs.. and died to Clique and last Jace with Crucible/Mishra chump block - opponent was at 7 (about 20 cards left in opponent library) I didn't drew any flyer expect Fetched Scryb which died to StP->MM->MM.
After game this game opponent suggest split that cash -> I agree, being exhausted.
I after second game I realize that I should board in goddeck teeg vs Jaces/repeal.
Final result: 4-1-2
Looks like not short report ^^.
Nuts for the end:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4...c05592f.th.jpg