[Primer/Deck] Pox

The problems are two: it is conditional because it need another card to function. (it is actually double conditional because it also require that the opponent have cards in his hand to discard).
Second it says 'discard', not sacrifice, which would have made it better for us that run pox effects. Also: even if your opponent have no cards in hand he will have lands and creatures to sacrifice.

Third: the effect is not only random for you, but the opponent have occasionally opportunity to choose what you well get; Liliana and the pox effects leave it to him to decide what to discard.

Thus the card is triple crap, but it would all be OK if the card was renamed: "Goblin Necromancers revenge"

The conditions the card requires are many, but in Hybrid Pox, this thing could be downright devastating. Sinkhole/Wasteland builds will clog their hand up for Liliana to keep this card pumping the advantage. Hymn to Tourach?! May I draw 2 cards, gain BBBB, or gain 2 zombies (4 damage) OR ANY COMBINATION OF THESE 3?!

The entire core of Pox is a different way to gain card advantage other than "Draw more then them" blue style.

If this thing costed just B or BB, I'm sold. Would I run a playset? Probably? But WHY? IT SUCKS! The idea of gaining 4 damage worth of creature from a hymn to tourach or a Liliana + Inquisition setup would be too freakin' Godly for 2 cmc or less. This card rewards you by doing what Pox normally does AND can KILL your opponent.

But if it's more than 2 cmc, then nope, I'd say quck it since the conditions to be met, as was mentioned, are stupidly high.

What's kind of awesome is that your opponent decides how you will kill them. He's very likely going to want to keep his lands if you're the standard Pox deck (Sink/Waste). If he discards creatures, you'll simply murder him so he'll probably keep those (then Liliana makes him discard them or sac them when they see play). At best he'll probably throw away his removal since aside from Exile, your deck doesn't care. You'll draw more cards to disrupt him that much further. Hymn is king here.

Liliana's Ultimate let's your opponent decide, does that make it terrible? Every enemy I've fought has never ever jumped for joy when I split their permanents and gave them a very nasty catch 22. One of my friends runs an old school Legacy MUC that plays Fact or Fiction. Nobody has ever split his cards in such a way that he's ever cursed under his breath. What's wrong with damned if you do/don't scenario?

Oh would 2 of these on the field give me 4 zombies if I Hymned two creatures? :eek:

I agree. Could be good if the cmc 'price' is right.

Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.

It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!

Or try it with BB as well as with the more likely 1BB to see how much difference it makes. Anything more would be unplayable or a maybe one like tainted aether.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.
It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!

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I thought about doing the same. However if turns out to be as good as I think it could be and then they print it at CMC 3 I would be gutted. In six months we should know what the card is going to be and then I would start play testing while waiting for it to be printed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

Oh would 2 of these on the field give me 4 zombies if I Hymned two creatures? :eek:

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Sure each one would trigger for each creature discarded.

If Revenge is printed at BB then I am going to try replacing "The Rack" with it and see how that plays. Its only downside is that you then need the opponent to play creatures for it to actually act as a kill condition. I think the extra card draw against spell based decks should let you find your Cursed Scrolls, Mishra's, whatever in time to actually close out the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

The problems are two: it is conditional because it need another card to function. (it is actually double conditional because it also require that the opponent have cards in his hand to discard).Second it says 'discard', not sacrifice, which would have made it better for us that run pox effects. Also: even if your opponent have no cards in hand he will have lands and creatures to sacrifice.Third: the effect is not only random for you, but the opponent have occasionally opportunity to choose what you well get; Liliana and the pox effects leave it to him to decide what to discard.Thus the card is triple crap

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It may be random, but I do not think it is that random. Storm Decks are mostly spells; Jund/Maverick is mostly Creatures, once you know what your opponent is playing you can predict the most likely effect. If they discard lands they are playing into your game plan of resource denial and so long as you have other cards in hand you should be able to use that two black (sinkhole/hymn/smallpox) or even some of it (cursed scroll). "The Rack" works for winning the game so long as you can keep there hand empty which requires discard. Sure you can play discard then drop the rack and deal 6 damage before there hand is back up to three cards but "The Rack" does nothing if you can not get them below 3 cards. Revenge should help you establish a lock quicker and once you have a lock you build up card advantage through either Zombie Tokens or actual card draw for a win condition.

Ahaa! More positive vibes, how nice :) I'm not going to playtest it, untill I know the cmc.

It will be a long waot and hopefully worth it...

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

Yeah, I'll be providing the list after the tournament.

I'm not saying my list is optimal by any means, but it absolutely wrecks combo - which is what I'm going for.

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How'd this go?

Revenge of Necromancy really depends on your list.

If you are running the full x4 Liliana of the Veil (which is very doable as you discard extra to herself) and multiple Raven's Crime then even @ 2cc, it should be fine. However RoN @ 3+cc requires more constent discard for the "engine" to work.

I do like how Revenge of Necromancy is both an engine (a very good one with creatures/cards > 50% of the time) and is also stackable unlike many other enchantments.

I'm definitely keeping 'the Rack' in my list... I also run 2-3 'Shrieking Affliction' and skip the resource denial (Sinkhole/Nether Void) but of course keep Smallpox... and run Bloodghast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Well, the best case scenario is always awesome.

It occurred to me that you could playtest it already, Omnistrata. No need to wait until it is printed. Let us assume cc BB to start with. Should be interesting!

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The other posters stated it'd hurt like hell if we assumed a cmc and turned out wrong. One of my magic buddies has low hopes and thinks the card maybe overpriced garbage at about 4cmc. [shudder] Bloodchief Ascension and Liliana's Caress come to mind as having big drawbacks, low cmc, and moderately powered.

The way I see it, if Wizards does print it that high, it'd be unplayable in Legacy save for dedicated slow slow counterspell decks that sit with as many cards in their hand as they can. (as if those exist lol)

I think I won't count my chickens before they hatch and we'll all see. If it became 3 cmc, non-land destruction flavors of Pox probably couldn't run it unless they're hoping to rack / shrieking their foes into keeping cards in hand. Liliana's been the best thing to ever happen to Pox and probably never will be surpassed. But we can always hope to be wrong right? ^_^

What do people do against shardless BUG, enchantress and cloud post?
I am thinking of reverting to a discard heavy contamination deck with ghast, crawler, geralf and bitterblossom.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

What do people do against shardless BUG, enchantress and cloud post?
I am thinking of reverting to a discard heavy contamination deck with ghast, crawler, geralf and bitterblossom.

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BUG: When I see that, I usually think of Team America and its variants. At 3 cmc, the enabler (agent) has to get past my Inqusition, Sinkhole, Wasteland plan. Preventing it from ever hitting the field stops its built in combo.

Enchantress: I'm not liking game 1 vs. this thing, though only 1 of my friends runs it. Dystopia, Perish, Ratchet Bomb come to mind. Since it likes Enchanting Lands, Sinkhole/Wasteland plan rips it in half quite well. If it's enchanting its basic lands, Ghost Quarter will help a bit at least in killing the enchantment.

Cloud post: My cloud post friends loves trying to win. Wasteland, Sinkhole, Smallpox, Pox won't let him keep a Cloudpost on the field.

I've found that those decks that do Graveyard Dancing (Dredge, Crucible, Loam) would rather fight through Extirpate/Surgical Extraction and even Tormod's instead of my favorite: Leyline of the Void. Of course, I run Dark Rits to turn 2 cast them if necessary but as of yet, nothing beats it in mono-b Pox.

There are no super effective Enchantment/Artifact based decks in Legacy so Pox is still quite strong. Well, at least my meta doesn't have them.

I just got back from a small local 14 man tourny. I finished 2-2 with a pretty old school list. A deck we would all be proud to take to the shop and crush the life out of them as a good Pox deck does. Made some good plays and had some good luck. Made some bad plays and had some bad luck. I'll give a torney report if i have time later. But basically i beat Reanimator and Burn/Sligh and lost to a Punishing dark Maverick and a wierd strix/Jace/thopter control/combo deck. All i can say right now is "damn Chalice of the Void! Damn Chalice of the Void!" I feel I would have done quite well against those two decks maindecking Chalice (what a bad tourny draw for me huh?) But I had to fight through too much chalice to find out. But I guess that was part of thier plan. What do you guys do about Chalice? Btw 2 Sensei's Divining Top was fantastic for me. I'm all about them now.

Omni, you are so right about Leyline of the Void. It came in very handy for me. It really hurt people and they often could do nothing about it. No Abrupt Decay to the rescue. Oh I love Leyline of the Void.

@OmniStrata,

Thanks! Unfortunately the land destruction plan is too expensive to pursue. At least 300$+
Mana denial, otoh, is a possibility. I am thinking Trinisphere and chalice mostly. Chalice for one would hit all the mentioned decks hard.
I also have old school "disks", but that would be to defensive solution.

Like this:
4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator

4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 pox
4 hymn to Tourach
4 chalice of the void


19 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual

Here is the list I ran last night. I went away from the discard build back to more land destruction due to more Punishing/Grove shenanigans and the possibility of Knights fetching the now availible Dark Depths land combo. It seemed very solid, and it's faults were more with me than the deck, other than some too slow killing as it goes.

Old School Pox

1 nether spirit

2 sensei's divining top
2 cursed scroll
2 Rack

4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana
4 hymn
4 Inquisition
4 innocent blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual

4 wasteland
3 Bojuka bog
4 misha's factory
3 urborg
9 swamp

4 pithng needle
4 leyline of the void
1 thoughtsieze
1 thorn of amethyst
1 spinning darkness
4 engineered plague

I know I have 62 in there, so suck it. I really need everything in there and the two tops filtering mote than makes up for adding the two of them. I have noticed no ill effects and very positive ones from the extra scroll and top, and the rack still won some games and I cant cut two win cons. What I really wish is two find two slots for a bloodghast and a cruciable of worlds.

Not sure the singleton Thorn is really worth it. Considering replacing the Pithing Needles with Rachet Bombs.

Match report upcoming soon.

@Hardcore. Chalice is very solid in the meta at this time as evidenced by how much of it I ran into and how much of a pain in the ass they were.

I figure that too; it is a fast format which means lots of cheap spells and creatures.

If you run into chalice you need to adapt. Top, scroll and rack are fine, but they can be replaced.

I was a mediocre 2-2 but I still feel good about the deck.

Game one vs Reanimator. I make a pretty boneheaded move and you just have to play everything perfect against Reanimator. I have an inquisition, dark rit and Lilliana opening. I play inq first in case he has Force vs Lilly. I will play her second turn. He does have a Force! And Show and Tell. And a couple of Reanimates. No fatties or ways to get them in the grave. I take the Show and Tell in case he draws a fatty and lays down that third land. Only then I noticed there was a second Dark Ritual hiding behind the first. I could have Inquisitioned AND played Liliana to lock him out on the first turn. Oh well, I'll do it next turn. He has jack in his hand and what are the chances he'll topdeck Entoumb? He topdecks Entomb. Drops Iona.

The next two were owned by Leyline of the void. If he had any Vapors in his deck I never saw one. I did have difficulty closing one game out long enough that he almost hardcast Iona, but Lilliana's ultimate assured that never happened.

The next match vs Burn was one I felt resigned to lose to it's speed and my slowness. It didnt happen. First game he drops a mountain and a Lavamancer. I Dark Ritual into Big Pox a little fearful of getting into quick burn range. But he never recovers from that heavy first loss and I draw a couple of sinkholes and a smallpox and he sits with no hand, no lands, no creatures and gets pinged a few times for the loss. Side out big pox for the lifeloss anyway.
The second game he drops 3 Goblin Guides and two Lavamancers in a few opening turns and it is much too fast for me.
The third game we each are below 10 life but I end up with Liliana, Top,Scroll and Factory controling it out for the win.

And here the Chalice horror story unfolds. He begins on the play and drops a turn one Chalice on me. Wins easily. I shut out a lot of his graveyard and Knight/punishing grove/Loam the second game and it gets very grindy with match control switching a few times. And him hating my Leyline.But he pulls it out in the end. His deck ends up winning the tournament.

2-1

In consolation I get to play another Chalice on the play deck. Yea! I have enough land destruction to keep him off his Jaces and Tezeret s for the most part but can't fight through Chalices and counters and recurring Thopter tokens. I have one perfect pox game but he wins the two Chalice games.

So..Ratchet Bombs for Pithing Needle?

first off, i love pox in general cause of the style of play it entails. This is just a rough draft but i think with the new rules changes this might be viable. Since depths combo can get around nether void playing 4 nether voids main seems like its not a bad idea. Also, I was thinking if there was a way to play loam in this. Loam seems so powerful even as a 2 of or something. I didn't include it in this list however cause the mana base is already shaky and it runs crucible. if you are playing nether void try to void casting things. also with the uprise of deathrite shaman i think loam is less effective than crucible.





35 cards

4 chalice of the void
4 mox diamond
4 vampire hexmage
3 liliana of the veil
4 sinkhole
4 small pox
4 pox
4 nether void
1 the abyss
3 crucible of worlds


25 lands

4 wasteland
4 urborb tomb of yawgmoth
6 swamp
2 mishras factory
4 thespian stage
4 dark depths

Interesting idea. Very interesting.

Manabase needs work.

4 vampire hexmage BB
3 liliana of the veil BB
4 sinkhole BB
4 small pox BB
4 pox BBB

Black sources:
4 urborb tomb of yawgmoth
6 swamp
4 Mox Diamond
14

48.75% chance of drawing a Pox in the first three turns, while requiring 21.42% of your deck's black sources.

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Originally Posted by apple713

35 cards

4 chalice of the void
4 mox diamond
4 vampire hexmage
3 liliana of the veil
4 sinkhole
4 small pox
4 pox
4 nether void
1 the abyss
3 crucible of worlds


25 lands

4 wasteland
4 urborb tomb of yawgmoth
6 swamp
2 mishras factory
4 thespian stage
4 dark depths

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There are too many four of's. I would cut two Thespians and a Marit Lage. The former is too awkward to use and the later is a won con that will be played after your disruption, rather than before.
Four nether void should perhaps be cut to three for the same reason.
May I suggest hymn to Tourach?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

@OmniStrata,

Thanks! Unfortunately the land destruction plan is too expensive to pursue. At least 300$+
Mana denial, otoh, is a possibility. I am thinking Trinisphere and chalice mostly. Chalice for one would hit all the mentioned decks hard.
I also have old school "disks", but that would be to defensive solution.

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From what I recall, pricing of cards shouldn't be discussed here, however, there IS another way. Pox's traditional threats are oddly mana hungry such as Mishra's, Nether Spirit, and Cursed Scroll. "Proper" land destruction decks outside Pox are supposed to play/cheat fast cheap threats below 3 mana and then use the 'outside sinkhole' 3 mana spells to nuke lands. Trinisphere & Chalice without Land Destruction will not work nearly as well. Some ideas?

Gravecrawler, Nihilith, Bloodghast, Epochrasite. For later in the game after you've ripped the board to pieces: Tombstalker. "Sinkhole/Waste is too pricey". Ok, in that case, we'll use the all in LD plan. Rancid Earth, Blight, Smallpox, Pox. You can run Rain of Tears instead of Blight if you wish. 3 cmc too expensive? Dark Ritual to cast Phyrexian Totem will give you reliable acceleration. Ghost Quarter is a tempo loss for you but I've found that murdering enemy man-lands with it has won me games where I would have died.

The idea for Pure LD pox would be to omit Hymn to tourach, keep Duress/Inquisition against combo (perhaps 5-7 1 cmc discard) and then go with the play threat, punch, nuke lands routine.

No, LD is not viable based on anything but sinkhole and wasteland. I will try chalice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

No, LD is not viable based on anything but sinkhole and wasteland. I will try chalice.

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In that case, I'd recommend Trinisphere over Chalice. Chalice doesn't stop Abrupt Decay, however with enough Pox effects, 3sphere can lock them out for quite a few turns. My gripe against chalice is that it completely stops my 1 cmc spells, of which Pox likes to have, however, 3 sphere lets me cast everything, even if it's more expensive mana wise. 3 cmc smallpox with an enemy @ 2 land is 1 sided cheese letting my Nether Spirit's and/or Factories deal free hits. Normally I cheat it into play with D. Ritual. I find that play more powerful than turn 1 Liliana assuming foe didn't counter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

In that case, I'd recommend Trinisphere over Chalice. Chalice doesn't stop Abrupt Decay, however with enough Pox effects, 3sphere can lock them out for quite a few turns. My gripe against chalice is that it completely stops my 1 cmc spells, of which Pox likes to have, however, 3 sphere lets me cast everything, even if it's more expensive mana wise. 3 cmc smallpox with an enemy @ 2 land is 1 sided cheese letting my Nether Spirit's and/or Factories deal free hits. Normally I cheat it into play with D. Ritual. I find that play more powerful than turn 1 Liliana assuming foe didn't counter.

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That's a good point regarding 3sphere vs Chalice. I still think Chalice is useful against Storm combo, as getting down Chalice @ 0 is very good against their acceleration. Trinisphere also serves a similar role to that of Nether Void in creating a locked up board state that is very difficult to get out of. Nether Void also doesn't stop Abrupt Decay, so Trinisphere makes more sense too.

Typically, if you're going for Chalice @ 1, it would shut off your opponents deck so much that your own 1cc (discard, ritual, The Rack, not sure what else...) is marginalized anyway. Against Abrupt Decay decks, Chalice @1 isn't that amazing, and Chalice @ 2 has almost no utility.

Thus, I would just focus on using Chalice & Trinisphere against spell-based combo. Turns out that Trinisphere is very good against the new Show & Tell decks too.

Am I missing something here? Nether Void can't be hit by Abrupt Decay and it makes It cost 5 mana.

EDIT- I'm dumb, I see now haha.

Nether Void's trigger doesn't do anything to Abrupt Decay. They just decline to pay the 3 and Void tries to counter AD, but AD can't be countered.

It can't be hit by Abrupt Decay is correct, but it doesn't make it cost 5 since it can't be countered and Nether Void only would counter it if the controller doesn't pay the additional 3.

Yeah, I have been considering 3 sphere too. It is certainly very good for traditional pox. Myself I am playing creatures and am more concerned about how control stop my initial assault. Chalice for 1cc stops StP, blue cantrips and top. No way to dig for answers, and no way to cast any they top deck.

Stops Shaman too, which is nice. Stops burn and Canadians dead.
Given how fast the format is both artifacts are bombs, but best to not over do it by playing both!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Yeah, I have been considering 3 sphere too. It is certainly very good for traditional pox. Myself I am playing creatures and am more concerned about how control stop my initial assault. Chalice for 1cc stops StP, blue cantrips and top. No way to dig for answers, and no way to cast any they top deck.

Stops Shaman too, which is nice. Stops burn and Canadians dead.
Given how fast the format is both artifacts are bombs, but best to not over do it by playing both!

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Yes, 3 sphere completely stops everything chalice would at 0, 1, and 2 cmc. It's like 3 Chalice's in 1 artifact! ^_^ I can understand your fear of StP since you like win conditions that are vulnerable to such things but I find your fear of cantrips unwarranted. Try to remember that to recover from Pox effects, you need 3 cantrips. Most Pox decks run 5-6 Poxes (4 small and 1-2 big) so to 'properly' recover from Pox they'd need 15-18 Brainstorms!

With Chalice of the Void, I suppose you'd end up playing without 0 cmc Moxes (I approve) and no 1 mana discard (this I'd rather not cut myself off from). I think keeping Dark Rit is your only way to safely cast a Chalice @ 1 with 1 to spare vs. a Daze or what not. Your meta is that combo heavy that you need to counter everything @ 0-1 cmc?

If you're not running man-lands, would you consider the old school Chimeric Idol? He's beefy enough to stop all weenies and can show up after you've done your disrupt. I sort of miss the guy but since I needed to blend threats with mana, I'm sort of forced to run Mishra's.

I disagree about Mox Diamond in Chalice builds. I think its definitely needed, an should also be supplimented by Crucible and Mishra's Factory as well. Effectively such a build would look almost like a black Stax deck with lesser reliance on 1cc discard (but not completely remove them). Liliana, Pox, and 3sphere are already really good axis for a prison deck. The manabase would need to support them with close to 26 lands. Sadly City of Traitors would not help here.

For interest I add my planned deck here.


4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator
4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 pox
4 hymn to Tourach
4 chalice of the void
19 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual


Note that the only card at 1cc is the Dark Ritual.
I figure an early chalice do the same job as any 1cc spot removal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

For interest I add my planned deck here.


4 bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator
4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 pox
4 hymn to Tourach
4 chalice of the void
19 swamp
2 dakmor salvage
4 dark Ritual


Note that the only card at 1cc is the Dark Ritual.
I figure an early chalice do the same job as any 1cc spot removal.

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Care to edit that list for whatever goes in the second Hymn to Tourach line? I'm curious to your list.

Ha ha! Would have been illegal for sure.

Maybe creature kill that can target batter skull. Doom blade?
Another idea is phyrexian arena.

On reflection I recall the need for more mana.
Quite possibly a swamp and a third dakmor salvage (to feed TB)

I made a couple of changes in my deck based on the now apparent increase in play of Chalice and a few other things i noticed about my deck in the last tourney.

First I debated about Needle vs Ratchet Bomb. But I figured I really still needed Needle vs Countertop and other type decks despite its Chalice vulnerable cost. Engineered Plague is a little unreliable against the fast tribal decks but it still may be a step down to expect Ratchet Bomb to handle a swarm of multiple tribals or a bunch of low cost Maverick creatures as I have not tried it with that card. Have any of you? But I figure it can pull it's weight in trying to combat Storm, as I am not a fan of Thorn making my spells cost one more either, and other LED decks as well as getting rid of any Chalices played against me. For Hardcore's aggro deck I like Chalice, but for me shutting off my Rituals, Racks, Inquistion's and Scrolls is a no go.

Speaking of Racks, as much as I want it in here along with Trinispheres, a balanced Pox deck can't really guarantee that the opponent will have no land or no hand. So even though I like the Rack enough in discard Pox to replace land destruction with more discard and Shrieking Affliction, in the more balanced build I find as often as not they have no hand and I have no Rack, or I have a Rack out and no Lilliana, but they still hold several cards. This despite the Rack still sometimes being a great card, like against burn. So I replaced them with Bloodghast as a kill option. Though Bloodghast has often frustrated me in the past, I figure at least it needs less of a situation set up for it than some other cards and it has a natural synergy with the deck I have always liked. I much prefer to pitch a Bloodghast or Nether Spirit to a Liliana or Pox effect than a "business" card I can play next turn while having the card I pitched come into play.

And here comes the other change, then. Dakmore Salvage replacing Bojuka Bog. Salvage has the obvious synergy with Bloodghast if you really need a creature and it is a land I don't mind pitching or saccing to Pox effects. And if it makes me a little more graveyard relient it is not overly so. As someone pointed out before on here, if they want to dilute thier deck to play 4 cards to hate your 6 graveyard loving cards that you could hardcast anyway, then you are already getting the advantage. The other thing is if you are using Top, Salvage provides an excellent card filter! And I do live my Tops especially when you are getting ready to draw land destruction when you need creature kill, or discard when nobody has a hand.

I did like the Bojuka Bogs at times to make goyfs and knights and mongeese smaller and give snapcasters and lavamancers fewer targets, but sac effects don't care how big they are and if a graveyard deck such as Dredge, Loam or Reanimator goes off on the play, then it is too late to respond to it by playing the Bogs next play. Though graveyard dancing deck players will ask you: "did you really maindeck Bojuka Bog!,Gah?"which can be fun. As much as it would be great to run 3x each of Bog and Salvage that is too many lands to come into play tapped. I could hedge and go with 2x Bog and 2x Salvage but that is a recipie for getting neither sometimes when you need them. I will go with dependability so I am inclined to try it with the 3 Salvage, especially as I am a couple cards light on land than ideal.

So I will probably run with this list next time. Nothing revolutionary, but getting towards a synergy I like and a stronger midgame.



1 nether spirit
2 bloodghast

2 sensei's divining top
2 cursed scroll

4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana of the veil
4 hymn to tourach
4 Inquisition of kozeliek
4 innocent blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual

4 wasteland
3 Dakmore salvage
4 misha's factory
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
8 swamp

4 ratchet bomb
4 leyline of the void
2 thoughtsieze
1 spinning darkness
4 pithing needle

It looks like people in your Meta don't aim chalice at you but at reanimate and other nasty decks. Quite possibility this will lead to a change in the Meta soon.
Meantime you could try 'blanking' chalice by playing less 1cc mana cards. Unmask instead of IoK, for example. And Contagion instead if Innocent Blood.


Oh, btw, needle will stop your own tops too.





4 bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 phyrexian negator
4 smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 pox
4 chalice of the void
3 phyrexian arena
3 victim of night
20 swamp
2 dakmor salvage



Victim of night seem the best targeted black removal right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Ha ha! Would have been illegal for sure.

Maybe creature kill that can target batter skull. Doom blade?
Another idea is phyrexian arena.

On reflection I recall the need for more mana.
Quite possibly a swamp and a third dakmor salvage (to feed TB)

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My favorite batterskull token killer is Smother. The fact it hits every other creature worth mentioning in Legacy is also good to know. I never see myself staring down enemy Tombstalkers. Reanimate fatties and Show and Tell creatures fall to sac effects easily. I wouldn't recommend Phyrexian Arena. Underworld Connections may work if you're going to get more lands into the deck.

But wait... More mana? 24 lands and 4 dark rits isn't enough? I find myself scared of manabases beyond 25 lands due to mana flood risks.

No other color have the unconditional card drawing cards black has. I figure it would be a mistake to take advantage of that.