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Hey guys,
I just wanted to know what is the scariest of these decks to see across from you:
Punishing Jund
Dark Maverick
Punishing Nic Fit
Sylvan Plug (Lejay's Choke deck)
Can you also explain your reasoning?
I have access to these decks and I have been losing to infect with Sylvan Plug for two straight weeks now at my local tournament.
Plug and Jund I think would be the scariest for infect. The infect player at our group just groans if he sees the deck being played due to how much removal it packs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Based on my experience, I would have to say Dark Maverick is the scariest on that list. The combination of Wasteland, StP, Abrupt Decay, AND Stoneforge/Jitte, plus Zealous Persecution and what not out of the sideboard can be devastating for Infect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Punishing Fire is actually not that scary because it is often too slow, and Pendelhaven helps a lot.
I'm also interested in seeing those lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by echofish
I'll post the lists on my lunch break. As for the decks you listed above I have only placed vs punishing jund and dark mav and of those two jund was always the harder matchup. Having access to heavy hand hate and punishing fire makes games that go past turn 3 a pain. Mav I have noticed run less discard, while it does have a one man a removal spell the reoccurring punishing fire is constant removal.
Dylan DoneganQuote:
Originally Posted by Cybey
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
Legacy
Creatures (12)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
Lands (18)
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven
Spells (30)
2 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Vines of Vastwood
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sylvan Library
2 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
2 Submerge
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vines of Vastwood
Tom Ross
2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 3/29/2015
Legacy
Creatures (12)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
Lands (20)
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven
Spells (28)
1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
Sideboard
1 Necropede
1 Spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sylvan Library
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
Bant Infect
Tom Ross
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
Legacy
Creatures (12)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
Lands (19)
1 Forest
3 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Pendelhaven
Spells (29)
1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Living Wish
Sideboard
1 Spellskite
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gilded Drake
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Sylvan Library
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Hydroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven
here is what he said about the wish board
Wish Infect
During the card ride home, we started brewing various Living Wish decks. It began with Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage and eventually led to the idea of Living Wish being added to Infect as a utility card. After all, the deck is a combo deck that would sometimes run upwards of four lands in its sideboard anyway. What started as random unplayable ideas started sounding more and more competitive and realistic. Here are a few of the standout options we came across:
Creatures
Viridian Corrupter
Serves as a way to remove problem artifacts, mainly Umezawa's Jitte and Chalice of the Void.
Putrefax
A heavy hitter that can threaten to be a haste one-shot alongside either Berserk or Invigorate + Noble Hierarch.
Click
An interactive non-poison threat. I've always wanted a non-Infect creature that wasn't an 0/1 that I could use to punish people who frivolously use their life total. Vendilion Clique serves as the best was to disrupt their hand and to punish people who go too low on their life total.
Slaughterhorn
A pump spell that you can tutor for. Has a nice benefit of being uncounterable, and thus gets under a Counterbalance.
Gilded Drake
An answer to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite after they hit play. This has a wide range of other targets as well, such as Blighted Agent in the mirror or a Marit Lage token.
Fiary-M
Uncastable, of course, but serves as your way to disrupt graveyard-based strategies. Not great against things like Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman, but it's nice against Reanimator.
Lands
waste
The maindeck has always been a bit high on colorless lands, so moving them to the sideboard enables you to play either more colored lands, less lands, or even both. Will sometimes function to mana screw your opponent, but more often it will be there to destroy an extremely problematic land like Grove of the Burnwillows, Maze of Ith, or Glacial Chasm.
inkmoth
Often your best threat since it's so hard for some decks to interact with. It does come at a cost of cutting one from the maindeck, but that tradeoff comes with its own perks as well.
karakas
The go-to land for bouncing big reanimated and Show and Tell monsters. Also relieves the pressure from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Uncertain if it's necessary when you have access to Gilded Drake though.
tower of the magistrate
Another previous Crop Rotation target. Best at equipping the Germ token from Batterskull to effectively kill it and to unequip Umezawa's Jitte. Possibly redundant as a target with Viridian Corrupter.
pendalhaven
A nice value land when you're trying to win outside of a pump spell combo. Protects against small removal like Disfigure and helps in combat against some decks like Death and Taxes. If I'm not playing one in the maindeck and the other in the sideboard, I'm playing two maindeck.
bog
Not quite as powerful when it doesn't come at instant-speed with Crop Rotation, Bojuka Bog can still be a fine turn 3 play against Dredge if you can use soft counters to make it that far. Also playable on turn 2 if you have Noble Hierarch.
White Cards
To play these, you'd want to play a Savannah maindeck since I don't consider the white from just Noble Hierarch enough to reliably warrant their sideboard inclusion.
meddling mage
Preemptively stops a problem spell. Could prevent Tendrils of Agony from beating you game 1 out of Storm.
giest
The best pound-for-pound regular damage creature you could want from the colors. Curves well after Living Wish so Geist remains as a very good reason to want both the Wish package and to play white. Geist of Saint Traft has floated around as a sideboard idea that would completely alter the way sideboarded games were played. However, there were neither enough cards to bring in or bring out to reliably play that game, and it left the deck doing neither plan well (leaving opponents at ten life and five infect isn't where you wanted to be). However, as a timely bullet you're sure to be on the right side of the fence at the right time.
knight
A potentially huge creature when you're running so many fetchlands. Better in decks that can threaten a continuous stream of Wastelands. With that said, the threat of your three Inkmoth Nexus and the fear of other instant-speed lands could be worth its inclusion.
canonist
Solely for the Storm matchup. You do often want to cast multiple spells in the same turn yourself, but the theory here is that they'll be hurt far more than you with it being on board.
containment priest
Another hate card against Sneak and Show and Reanimator. Loses a lot of its flair without the surprise value through.
These are only the top contenders, and I'm sure that you as readers have more ideas for sweet silver bullets. Here's the first run of it incorporating the concept without having too much overlap on card effects.
I like the genereal idea behind more cantrips, and I can even get behind 2 Vines because the card is really clunky at times, especially with Inkmoth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_r3ck0n1ng
But I don't think it makes any sense to add 4 cantrips AND then cut the number of blue lands from 12 to 11.
And it still remains to be shown that Preordain is not just a weaker Ponder - my own testing suggest that it is in fact weaker.
Tried and tested, super balanced and strong list from THE BOSS. The obvious starting point for anyone thinking about assembling Infect.Quote:
Tom Ross
2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 3/29/2015
The white splash is a matter of taste. I prefer to play without it, personally.
While this is a super interesting excercise in deck building, I really think we need proof of concept - real results that show Living Wish can win games.Quote:
Bant Infect
Tom Ross
0th Place at Test deck on 4/2/2015
And now for something completely different! I plan to test this card later today: Split Decision.
It is functionally a Fork for 1U. This card only exist on paper, and NOT on Magic Online.
Primary uses: Copying pump spells like Invigorate or Berserk for quick lethal, copying any cantrip on any side (and I really really want to copy my opponent's Dig Through Time), and countering counterspells.
The downside is that the card does nothing on its own. But I guess the same can be said about pump spells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M+1
I love it! It seems quite versatile, but the biggest issue I guess would be where to put and it and what it should replace? Maybe as a singleton in the board/main like some decks run councils judgment.
Question is if it is better than Divert?
With the new ideas going on with the main deck, I plan on trying out 2 abrupt decays in the main. I'll most likely go down to 2 trops/breeding and bayou/overgrown. I really like the option of having this card game one vs a lot of the format and helps remove the problem cards like Jitte and chalice. Thoughts?
carrying 3 colors will just expose our weakness vs wastelands.dec, and topdecking these removals will compromise the deck's explosiveness.. mud is a positive matchup! land an inkmoth and invigorates will get u there..jitte is slow, u can always crop rot for pendels..vines opp.crits and sb offers a lot of help vs that artifact. i think the deck is too tight right now and ug is the shell that i think will remain to perform well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_r3ck0n1ng
btw, i was on rug last sunday (#4 of 40+) coz ive mistakenly switched deckboxes with my supposedly sunday entry uginfect.. met a fellow infect player middle of the rounds and was able to 2-0 him easily (bitter sweet). Before we worry bout jund..maverick..mud...i think that rugdelver is far more difficult matchup than those..they have answer to everything infect has..rebs..wastelands..stifles..burn that can interact..submerges.. well, if we're able to pass thru this archetype..then i think the decks listed above shouldnt be much of a problem.
I find this very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_r3ck0n1ng
I have made a list that includes a one-off clique for my next tournament which I will try out.
Right now its:
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Blighted Agent
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Glistener Elf
4 Invigorate
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Vines of Vastwood
I upped to 20 lands as I am also including DTT (which i have not yet tried)
I like Vendilion on paper since it brings a few tricks to the deck (as mentioned above):
- disruption. EOT take away removal or counter spell.
- can draw out removal/counter reactively from my opponent which is nice for my infect dudes.
- information of opponents hand
- non-infect beater. A solid one actually. With one exalted trigger hits for 4 - and, rather situational but still, beats for 20 with 1 BI and 1 Berserk. Dream scenario!
- Greater matchup vs combo
- synergy with SB karakas.
Sadly it cost a lot, but due to hierarch it should be that difficult to get out in turn 2. I will have to test it first tho..
Oppinions?
1st on a 14man tourney last sat (3-0-1)
same decklist and sideboard from my Championship run last March (decklist posted here)
2-0 Sneakshow
An explosive keep helped me and a counterlight hand from my opponent made an easy 2-0, they will pack in pyroclasm and bloodmoon vs us, so always leave an emergency fetch to get a forest vs this matchup.
(+1fow, +2pierces, +1 hydroblast, +2needles, +1surgical / - 2 crop rotations, -3 vines, -1 inkmoth, - 1 noble)
2-0 Bug Delver
tough matchup after sideboarding, so i really need to get a good keep game 1, i got 3 early glisteners and dodge a hymn, upon wasting my trop i crop rot for pendel and my 3 glisteners put real pressure over a lone DRS, by time he decayed one and landed a goyf, that’s the time i put in blighted, game 2 where i he wasted 2 inkmoths but no pressure still..probed for a golgari charm, my eot croprotted inkmoth attacked with exalted noble to put him on 6 infect, i bstormed and still he waited for a mass blowout, i digged in an invi and daze, got rid of my fow and land and casted invi for lethal... he charmed, i dazed ftw!
(-3fows, -2become immense, 1 noble, 1 ponder / +2needles, + 1spellskite, 1 sylvan, 2 pierces, 1 reality ripple)
1-1 Bug aggro
fast start for me game 1, but stalled glisteners over coatls and dryads was a long grind...game 3 wherein i opened a needle for waste, he casted needle too on his turn1 for inkmoth yay! time run out and was short of 4 infect damage for a draw.
(same as above)
2-0 UWRPatriot
early probe helped me navigate my creatures vs his ton of removal early on, by the time we ran out of resources both i started ravaging the skies with inkmoths. game 2 wherein he resolved an SFM getting jitte, by the time he activated it eot, i nclaimed it. 1 blighted and an inkmoth put in pressure and by the time he casted his freshly drawn bloodmoon, again i fetched for forest...but wouldnt be able to cast VINES ftw on my turn, i lacked 1green mana source... still on just 6 infect i needed to draw a major pump before he catches me up. On my turn, the Infect Gods made it easy for me giving me that very timely INVIGORATE!
(-3fows, -2pierces, 1 ponder, 1 crop rotation / + kgrip, naturalize, nature’s claim, +2needles, 1 ripple, 1sylvan
my constant success vs unfair gave me confidence everytime im facing one, midrange decks will surely be tough.. but the deck proved it can still do its job when you load up on problematic matchups. starting most of the games winning the dieroll helped me getting that impt g1 W start, game 2 my bench proved its worth.
@neffy: im treating a combo matchup a positive matchup for us, so i think i will just use an infect-related spell (up my vines or a second BImmense from your list) rather than a cliq. The combo decks will also have issues with us coz we can go ftw as early as turn2. packing dazes, fows, pierces early on and have multiples still on the sides will get this done. once we stop their development early on they go on a topdeck mode to assemble again unlike us that can just land 1 creature and put pressure on continuously.
I've been playing infect on and off for the past 6 months. I have the card pool to play a large variety of decks but I just can't quit playing this monster. Its easily the best "delver" deck. I've been playing various builds of the deck and this weekend I am going to try something new. I've played in 2 IQ's with the deck and finished 6th and 2nd. The first tournament was 120ish players and the second was 70ish players. My local meta has 2 legacy tournaments a week featuring a large variety of deck archtypes and this deck seems to perform incredibly against nearly everything in the field. The decks I've had trouble with are Junk Blade & Shardless BUG, but other than that its been incredible.
Here's the list:
Land 19
Inkmoth Nexus 4
Misty Rainforest 4
Tropical Island 4
Verdant Catacombs 4
Forest 1
Pendlehaven 1
Wooded Foothills 1
Spells 28
Brainstorm 4
Invigorate 4
Daze 3
Force of Will 3
Vines of Vastwood 3
Berserk 2
Crop Rotation 2
Gitaxian Probe 2
Spell Pierce 2
Dig Through Time 1
Ponder 1
Stifle 1
Creatures 12
Blighted Agent 4
Glistener Elf 4
Noble Heirarch 4
Other 1
Sylvan Library 1
Sideboard 15
Submerge 3
Krosan Grip 2
Blue Elemental Blast 1
Bojuka Bog 1
Daze 1
Force of Will 1
Grafdiggers Cage 1
Karakas 1
Null Rod 1
Pithing Needle 1
Spell Pierce 1
Spellskite 1
As you can see, I'm trying a main deck Sylvan Library. This card has been incredible in nearly every matchup in the past. With as much taxing disruption as we play, its been good against Combo (we earn enough turns to use it aggressively). I have been in love with Dig Through Time but lately its been the most underwhelming card in the deck. I had dropped one crop rotation for a second ponder, but the sorcery speed durdle didn't help outside of 1 copy/game with conditional shuffle, hence I went back to 2 crop and 1 ponder. I've also dropped the Wasteland. It has been incredibly good in niche situations but on the whole it only hurt the mana of the deck while adding very little utility. Adding the library and a ponder has allowed me a safer route to 19 land artificially increasing my threat density and my number of live draws. I'm bringing the stifle back as a "wasteland counter" with other conditional bonuses (mainly SFM trigger). I've dropped probe to a 2 of since I never liked playing it in the early turns. Probing an opponent on turn 1-2 is rarely evident given the number of Brainstorms in Legacy. It's much more useful once we establish a solid threat (turns 4-6 are where I like to close the game). I rarely play this deck as a combo tool, but rather the control/tempo role. Early on I was all about the combo but the fact that we play 12 (auto flip) delvers (4 being lands) is insane and incredibly unfair, even without the combo.
The meta I'm playing in this weekend has historically been heavy on Death & Taxes and other blade varieties meaning that Jitte is going to be high on the radar. I don't like relying on K-Grip so I've added a Null Rod to disperse my artifact hate. Null rod has also been pretty decent against the LED and Petal "Count to 10" decks.
The 3 submerge in the board is a nod to the increased Abrupt Decay builds. It removes those pesky goyfs as wells as giving us a really bad vines in those situations where you may need it.
I've been thinking a lot of dropping the Dig for a Become Immense, but I feel like its a trap. Dig has been incredibly valuable against Miracles or other control/removal heavy decks. I've eot'd a Dig to grab a pump/crop rotation more than once to get the kill out of nowhere. Its also found counter spells when it needed to.
The reason I'm on the fence about Become Immense over Dig is honestly the Noble Hierarch kill. I kill roughly 1 person/tournament with the Hierarch. People play loose with their life total and Berserk Damage adds up really fast. Become Immense obviously increases that line of play.
Okay, last inquiry and I'll leave this post be...
What are your thoughts on Spellskite? I've always felt like the card is underwhelming (except in the mirror obviously) and it is probably just better suited as a Piracy charm or possibly a surgical extraction.
Sorry for the long rant. I'm just trying to give/get as much info as possible before the weekend. There is always a direction we miss and this community is the perfect 2nd set of eyes.
Your choices look pretty reasonable for your meta. Down on Probes and up on Crop Rotations is a fantastic way to deal with a fair meta that doesn't play much blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by RigorousBean
A couple of thoughts:
-Ponder has always felt clunky to me. Do you have any experience playing without it? Maybe this is a good card to sub out if you're looking to test Become Immense.
-3 Submerges feels like a lot. Have you considered running Divert as a response to the rise in Abrupt Decay?
-Become Immense is very strong. The deck can't reliably play more than 2 delve cards, so consider what split of Dig and BI you want to run. A lot of people here run a 2/0 for BI, though I prefer a 1/1 split for finding sideboard singletons with Dig in games 2 and 3.
-Spellskite is medicore. I played one in response to the rise of Pyroblast, but as those saw less play I began to doubt Spellskite's place in the 75. The one place it has really shined for me is against Lands and Punishing Fire, though given that you've taken Wasteland out of your 75, I doubt that's something you're expecting to see a lot of.
I've played Ponder before and I eventually cut it and that may be the case again. I know that Tom, Brad Nelson and Todd Anderson have all played the card at some point in their 75 so they may understand something about the card that I'm missing. I've typically have used it for the shuffle which I guess is still fine in a pinch. I have strongly considered a less conventional choice with Preordain. Has anyone had any luck with this option?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
3 Submerge may be a lot. I've tried 2 and have fallen in love with the card, but I do lose some board utility because of it. Its even been great against the reanimator decks splashing green.
I want to love become immense, the math on the card is a little strange but I guess its something I can get behind. Its obviously a proven and justified choice at this point.
I honestly forgot about punishing fire, so I'm glad you brought it up. I guess if I dropped the spellskite for a surgical extraction I'm basically doing the same thing with some potentially added utility (dredge, reanimator, miracles), but I lose the trump card from the mirror match (I don't see this as a big deal, though MTGTOP8 lists Infect at a 4% increase over the past 2 months).
I also like the idea of divert. Its not a card I've played with in the past. How reliable is it? Is it worse than running a 4th vines in the board?
I feel like two delve cards is too many (this is a little biased since I've never ran more than 1 with the exception of treasure cruise ~RIP). The deck can fill the yard quick especially with crop rotation tricks, but I've already cut back on some of the yard filling cards like wasteland and probe. If you were to choose between the two, would you choose Dig or Become Immense and why. Its probably the biggest debate I constantly have with myself. Dig is generally more powerful but more difficult to cast. Become Immense increases the clock but doesn't reduce the effect of diminishing returns (always an issue to some extent with a deck like this). I'm also 60% in the Dig camp because it pitches to Force. I realize the deck runs 21 blue cards as is, but I really don't want to count the 4 creatures or the 4 brainstorms because they are often more valuable than the thing your are countering.
Dylan Donnegan played a 4x Preordain in his invitational Infect list. His reasoning was that you often want one of the cards you see when you cantrip, but don't always have the luxury of shuffling the others away. Haven't tested this myself, but I might try Preordain if I play at my LGS legacy weekly today.Quote:
Originally Posted by RigorousBean
I'm currently playing Spellskite and Surgical in my 75, but only because my testing partner mains Lands. These are strictly meta calls, I wouldn't say whether running one over the other is correct, they have very obvious strengths and weaknesses.
I've been playing the full 4 Vines in the main against creature removal, plus a Divert in the side. It's very reliable against Abrupt Decay decks, but because those have started making their way out of my local meta, I've recently cut it from my 75. I can't imagine it being worse than a 4th copy of Vines in your meta, though a lot of its strength hinges on your opponents not playing around it. At the very least, I'd say it's worth testing for a couple of games.
If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Become Immense over Dig Through Time. Become Immense is much easier to cast and falls more in line with out game plan. On the other hand, Dig is a luxury I've been indulging in with the rise of Miracles players at my shop. There are definitely games vs. Wasteland decks where you won't ever get to UU. If you find yourself pitching a card to Force more often than casting it, it's a pretty good sign that you could replace it with something else.
That said... the deck should be more than capable of supporting two delve cards. You wouldn't want to see more than one in a game, so I tend to mull hands with both or Brainstorm one away at first opportunity. It's true you're down a Wasteland and Gitaxian Probe from most lists, but that should be pretty easily offset by the second Crop Rotation in the main. I'd recommend trying two again, just play with the mindset that you're not casting more than one in a game.
So after a disastrous tournament last week where I tried Solidarity I decided to go back to Infect. I made this list, based on my previous lists but not on testing because I haven't had much time lately to play.
Creatures 12:
4 Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
Spells 29:
3 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Stifle
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Become Immense
4 Invigorate
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
1 Crop Rotation
Lands 18:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothill
3 Tropical Island
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Side:
2 Piracy Charm
1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
2 Necropede
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Wasteland
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
I went 3-2. My losses were against UWr control and BUG Delver and I took 1 win in both rounds. They just had it all, all the removal and a decent clock or Counterbalance + more removal. I won from Miracles, BUG Control and another one but I forgot what he played. I'm not going to write a tournament report because I forgot so many details that it's useless to do. The deck felt pretty good, it felt solid but not that fast and I would like to be able to kill a bit faster. I don't know what it is but the last few tournaments I haven't been performing well. Maybe it's the meta here but it's probably more because of the way that I play. I often have the feeling that my sideboard cards aren't good enough to battle the hate from the opponents. Does anyone else have that feeling sometimes?
Anyway, back to testing and playing a lot. What do you guys think of this list?
Hi, two weeks ago I went in a 200 player tournament and I played Infect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
I finished 4/3/1 (2-0 each match I won and 1-2 every match I lost): the deck is very powerful and very fast (even if I never had a "Turn 2 kill" so far) and I lost because of my errors (it was the second tournament with Infect and I have few time to play Magic but I hope to emprove myself in the future).
I found a field full of Miracles (I'm from Italy and I expected it), BUG and (unusually) Lands.
I played against Miracles (1-2), Burn (2-0), Lands (1-2), Miracles (1-1), Shardless BUG (1-2), Dark Maverick (2-0), Mud (2-0), BUG Delver (2-0).
I think Infect in Legacy can be competitive against every kind of decks: I only found the Shardless BUG matchup very difficult (or against every decks that have too many hand disruptions anyway).
My list was:
4 Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
3 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
3 Vines of Vastwood
1 Become Immense
4 Invigorate
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
2 Crop Rotation
1 Dig Through Time
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Tropical Island
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Wasteland
Sideboard:
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spellskite
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
I think I'll cut the white splash in my next tournament because it seemed not so incisive...
How does the Dig Through Time work for you? I haven't played it yet because I find the UU pretty difficult to cast while keeping pressure.
It works very well: I found it useful especially in mid-late game (sometimes matches go on and on, mainly against Miracles) when I had to find the specific card to solve a problematic situation; furthermore against that archetype it's not difficult to have UU (I never seen Wasteland in Miracles decks).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
I often casted DTT in opponents' end of turn to find the Invigorate and/or Berserk I needed to kill them the following turn.
Clearly I think that 2 is the maximum amount of delve cards (either 2 Become Immense or 1 BI and 1 DTT) and I sided both out when I had to side in Rest in Peace.
Well I might just try it. I don't run the 3rd colour splash at the moment so I won't have to worry about RiP. What do you think is better in a GP-meta. 1 DTT + 1 BI or 2 BI?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Key
I believe that 2 BI are better in a meta full of combo decks (so you gain a great explosiveness boost) but in a GP meta, where I expect a wide range of decks, I do split 1 DTT + 1 BI!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
Regard to your sideboard, I saw 2 Necropede: I tried them too, then I cut them to 1 and then I removed them all... I found Necropede useful only against Death & Taxes and it's not so popular in my meta.
I can say the same thing about Spellskite in my sideboard... Is it worth it?
I don't understand if it's so useful yet, but it was a great sidein against Lands (too many Maze of Ith and Punishing Fire for me)!
My meta is combofull (omni/snt/reanimators/storms), that's why there are lots of MUD too to police them..
and the list the works for me is...
2 crop (fuels delve fast!)
3 vines (these just works vs fair meta, always a sideout vs any unfair)
2 become immense (will always bring us explosiveness early turns, dodges cotv set to 1 too!)
vs any combo i always find a way to insert in surgicals (2 in my sb) vs non GY combo, i love to hit their cantrips, thus slowing their development.. and DTTs too!
DTT for me is a midgame card, i'd rather bring in ponder or another probe.. we always want to go fast, and instead of searching i would rather have another pump spell in that slot (BImmense).
I like your list, especially the sideboard, and your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by poxy14
I liked the video you posted (G3 finals vs Sneak&Show) too.
Good job!
I'm going to try 2/3 Surgical Extractions instead of RIPs (so I can cut the white splash at all and replace some slots) next tournament.
Miracles dominates my meta so I prefer play 1 BI + 1 DTT because it happens very often to go to mid-late game.
Thanks man! Surgicals also was key in some of my miracles matchup, deny them the cbtoplock with needles, and surgical them removals away for good. it can blank snapcasters too. Well, from my experience MIRACLES is a positive matchup for us, just don't over commit your creatures. they have a hard time countering invigorates and BImmense and their terminus and verdict are weak vs our inkmoths. Extractions provides us speed too vs another fast combo in Reanimators, we can react quickly vs them unlike RIP that's slow and let's us tapped out once we cast em, though it's very much suited vs delve decks (DTT) in today's meta...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Key
What video? Can you share a link? I couldnt find anything scrolling back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Key
Page 11, thread #219Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
That was a really perfect hand. Why do you keep tapping Noble for mana instead for lands? And why didn't you float a mana after the daze, Poxy?
i really shouldve been tapping nobles provided i was able to draw my 2nd land but i didnt draw it.. i was anticipating echoing truth on my nobles in any of his turns, so if it happens to resolve on my EoT, i still have a live trop to pierce and daze with 1 land on his turn when he attempts to combo off. He cant do nothing on my lone trop, but he can do something vs my nobles.. fortunately enough i drew tons of permissions that clinching game3, i did however float blue when i dazed, the volume is just too low. didnt bother to drop the blighted too to reinforce my fow. a perfect hand indeed on a 1 lander!:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by echofish
Any thoughts on this list?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9609&d=255201&f=LE
I really like Flusterstorm in the main and Seedtime looks really interesting. I think I would have replaced the ponders with probes, thought.
Looks like the new infect has more counterspells and pump with less crop rotation shenanigans.
the list might be geared towards a combo-infested meta, flusterstorm is really very conditional for me as pierce can counter more relevant things than flusters (PW's, artifacts, enchantments....)Quote:
Originally Posted by echofish
i wont play infect without 2 crops main. it's just an amazing card not to include main in this very deck!
fuels delve, saves our lands vs wastelands, infect crit #13 and #14, saves our crits via pendelhaven... and the surprise EoT crop to inkmoth is just AWESOME..
when they thought they got rid of all our infected soldiers, and they go all in... that's when this card wrecks them.
The list is geared towards this meta: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#onlineQuote:
Originally Posted by poxy14
I guess it fits well with the maindecked flusters : ), the meta is BLUE, so i think it's a very good adjustment on the pilot's part.Quote:
Originally Posted by M+1
i like his adjustment too on the 3 vines config. vs unfair it is less explosive and exposing us to tap. full dazes, full fows, flusters... i like this vs removal light meta : )
I have played alot vs Miracles lately, and it is a very hard matchup. I really hate that Patric Sullivan and Cedric Phillips says that Infect is a disaster for Miracles. And they base this on that "they have a hard time dealing with Nexus". Like 8 plows, 4 Terminus and a cb+top-lock isn't enough?!
Has anyone cracked the code to bring down Miracles? I know ofc that a turn 2 hit with a lethal Glistener and counterspells backup is an option, but that rarely happens.
I have tried bringing in more counterspells, but that only slows me down and that is exactly what Miracles want.
Here is a more realistic match vs Miracles (BBD vs Tom at the recent invitational): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9PVmNci36k
To piggy back off of Echofish's question I was wondering how everyone is finding the matchup against the MiracleBlade deck that came out of GP Kyoto w/ Monastery Mentor/
I've been struggling with it a bit and can see this deck as a potecial bad matchup with some more common Infect builds. One noteworthy aspect of Infect against the classic Miracles matchup is how nimble our deck can be. If they clog the board or hold up removal we have ways around that. However the new iteration has the ability to clog the board, build a hand, AND get countertop going all fairly easily.
Are main deck flusterstorms the key to winning deeper counter fights? Should we be running more cantrips? Do we need to change anything at all? In general what are your thoughts on the matchup?
It really is a positive matchup for us! just dont over commit your creatures once you establish and reserve counters for relevant spells they have vs us...Quote:
Originally Posted by echofish
i usually counter their brainstorms and early sensei's, that way theyll have difficult time setting up the cbtoplock and cheat with their terminus... vines shld take care of stps, land an early glistener follow it up with a noble then youre good! dont attack with inkmoths one u have another infected crit on play.. they also have hardtime countering invigorates especially become immense even on a cbtop lock.
my boarding strategy vs miracles
(+10 = 1 fow, 2 needles, 2 pierce, 2 surgicals (hit their removals!) 1, kgrip, 1 naturalize, 1 sylvan (abuse this once in play!)
(-10) = 3 dazes (theyre land heavy!) 3 vines (additional pierces will take care of their removal, vines kicker is inviting a blowout once we tapped out) 1 ponder, 2 berserks (expect a grind), 1 noble.
with already 4 pierces main, pretty much we can battle early locks and sweepers, aside from the help that our needles will offer vs sdt/pwalkers.. i just rely heavily on noble pump, pendelhavens/invi and immense for the needed boost as they somehow avoids counterbalance compared to berserks. find other ways to beat their strategy! i beat miracles too with needle/probe combo! by needling their fetches: ) aggresively hit them with surgicals, brainstorms are awesome targets too. just try to derail their gameplan and you'll beat it... also remember we have a high percentage of landing a turn 1 clock that they need to answer asap, once we do just protect the board from sweepers with lots of permissions our bench players provide. the key is JUST DONT OVER COMMIT... unless ofcourse you already probed them.
Is Cartesian (MODO) reading/posting on this thread?
I really like how he/she is developping his/her list on MODO (Fluster MD, more Ponders, less Probes), and would love to read his insight about the deck.
Im having a real hard time beating Death and Taxes with Infect (been playing the deck not much yet, so this is most likely a lack of skill). I'll post my list on the bottom.
What are your general advices vs DnT and (since my meta has A LOT of DnT), what sideboard cards would you recommend? I tried Null Rod lately, but unfortunately did not draw them in any of the 3 DnT Rounds i played against. On paper Null Rod seems nice since it Deals with every equip they might play (and Jitte is just game if they can get it online fast enough), while ALSO putting the Vials to sleep (so no unexpected blocks or such). I would also be willed to put 1-2 dedicated "anti DnT" slots in my side, since my side is shaky as it is right now anyway. Currently thinking if Piracy Charms are good enough for the side, or if i maybe wanna go white with Swords to Plowshares
Thanks in advance
[deck]
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Become Immense
4 Invigorate
3 Vines of Vastwood
1 Mutagenic Growth
2 Berserk
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
2 Breeding Pool
1 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
SIDEBOARD
3 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
2 Null Rod
1 Crop Rotation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
[/deck]
3 needles seems overkill, but if youre having problems with DnT then these needles will provide u great help, i would however put in a 3rd artifact hate and cut a null rod (wont stop wastes/mom/ports/mangara unlike needles).. also remember they will eventually land a thalia vs us, so kgrips will cost 4... ive diversified my hate with nclaim, naturalize and kgrip as my 3 artifact hate alongside 2 needles.... im currently experimenting with 2 vaporsnags over the submerges so i can hit anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411
my sb plan would be:
(- 2pierces, -3dazes, -3 probes, 1 ponder)
(+ 3 artifact/enchant hate / 2 needles / 2snags / 1sylvan (very good vs any midrange), 1 spellskite
I've seen variants on Infect with a 3 drop like Cold Eyed Selkie and TNN, I was wondering if anyone's tested it before? It's piqued my interest in trying the deck.