I think the meta has shifted to a Point, where the man of steel Need to pack a lot of etched Champions
I think 3 can be the right number
Good against sfm and rug delver and it also Forces Terminus out of miracles
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I think the meta has shifted to a Point, where the man of steel Need to pack a lot of etched Champions
I think 3 can be the right number
Good against sfm and rug delver and it also Forces Terminus out of miracles
@barachai - thanks for that feedback. I took a 5 year hiatus from legacy and had a brain fart on one of the staple cards of the format.
@Man of Steel - I've been running 2 champs for the last few weeks. I rode them to victor in a few games 2 weekends ago at a team event. One time I even came from behind by making my metamorph a copy of batterskull and then equipping to champ to survive an onslaught of white creatures. I'm unsure if 2 or 3 is the right number because you could have draws with champ, champ, skirge, chalice, land, land, sol land. If chalice is forced or dazed, the hand doesn't do much in terms of slowing down opponents. Sadly, will probably be run over / be a turn or 2 too slow compared to other decks. But I do really like champ in the grindier matchups.
What list would you play with 3 champs?
Picked the deck up online w/ some extra tix. Just went 4-1 losing to moon stompy which feels like a positive matchup - however I punted a game and got locked under a bridge.
Should I be bringing in my bridges for RUG Delver?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/GGDg0VF.png[/IMG]
If you're looking into some ideas for a variation of the deck for this weekend, this is what I'm piloting in the last few days, with great success including a few 4-1s and one 5-0:
https://i.imgur.com/N9AZMVR.jpg
Will probably post another 5-0 next week with the same list.
I'm no longer carrying Karn since the format is way faster: Show and Tell, RUG Delver, Storm, Elves.... sheez. I had a rough time adjusting after the bans, but I think the online metagame has stabilized and this version of the deck is what seems most suitable for it.
It's pretty obvious that my main concern is curving the Show and Tell matchup, with 11 sideboard cards.
I ditched Leyline for Faerie Macabre because the Fae also helps on the RUG matchup by making the goyfs/mongeese smaller, or by purging an ancient grudge
i think the last two lists posted pay not enough respect to red sneak attack, sneak & Show or storm.
in my opinion, this deck Needs thorn in the main and i think that etched Champion is better aginst tarmogoyf and sfm than the walker
i have one question, how good was chief of the foundry? I think about a couple of platings
Are you still playing your MKM list in the new format? I'm gonna start a league with that 75 and I'll post back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
Funny enough I just grabbed that previous list from Qernavak and played it to a 4-1 finish without ever touching the deck before. It seemed good but I drew pretty hot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
- I'll confess Red Sneak Attack is almost nonexistent in the mtgo metagame, so I didn't tune the above list with that specific deck in mind.
- There's a lot of respect for Sneak & Show: MD - 3x Revokers, 1x Karakas; Post sideboard: +11 cards: +1 Karakas, +1 Revoker, +3 Spyglass, +2 Thorns, +4 Meteor Golem. This strategy has won me almost every post sideboard game vs. Sneak and Show
- I agree, I have disrespected storm by not having main thorns and only 2 thorns in the sideboard, and no ratchet bomb at all. But I had to optimize for the narrow presence of Storm in the mtgo metagame. On the other hand, the 4 chalices, and 3 revokers in the main ensure that this matchup is still favored towards Steel Stompy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
- There is way too many creature decks around nowadays, which is way I decided to cut Thorns. Delver with Daze backup and wasteland follow up seems to be the play du jour. If the metagame shifts towards more sneak and show, miracles, storm, then I would definitely bring Thorns back, and perhaps into the main.
- I agree that Etched Champion is better vs. Goyf and SFM. On the other hand, I have been favorable in the Goyf matchups. I do have trouble with SFM, and usually rely on the combination of Walker/Ravager to solve me that problem. I have tried Etched Champion and I do like it a lot; my one big gripe is that it would require Equipment cards to make maximum use of it, and I haven't had much success lately with that strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
- Chief of the Foundry has been... just good enough. Think about activating Overseer just once... that's how it feels. It is specially good after dropping a Skirge on turn 1 and follow it up with a Chief. It also makes your Ballistas survive after dealing with pesky threat, and the ability to recharge. My favorite thing about it is that it tilts the miracles matchup towards your favor: in this matchup you are require to not overextend your board, and doing so with any of your 1/1s is so slow and usually would mean eventual defeat. But Chief itself has more power, plus I can sometimes overextend because I know that I would get my value worth since all other creatures get the instant boost. Not to mention that with 8 creature lands, the miracles player need to deal with Chief as soon as possible.
- Are you thinking about Cranial Plating?
I'm not sure that I like Meteor Golem over Ensnaring Bridge as a whole. Golem is almost only relevant vs the card Show and Tell, whereas Bridge can come down preemptively to answer Sneak Attack. Bridge also gives you game against Marit Lage, and can be boarded in against decks who just have big dudes if wanted. I don't think being better against specifically S&T into Omniscience is worth the loss in versatility.
I very much agree with you. To your last statement, there's a big asterisk, and that's "unless" S&T is a big percent of your meta. In my case, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by aromaticity
The problem I had with Ensnaring Bridge vs. Sneak and Show was that it didn't do enough. Yes, if they go SnT>Emrakul it was good, but in reality, they went SnT> Griselbrand, draw 7 then Abrade the bridge>win. Not to mention that either playing the Bridge or playing around the bridge meant that sometimes I had to curve the growth of my own creatures to stay below the bridge level, or the tempo lost by casting the bridge. So now I rely entirely on Golem to be "the" answer vs. SnT. Not to mention I have 9 post sideboard options to deal with Sneak Attack, in 4 revokers, 3 splyglass and 2 Karakas.
I completely agree that this "adjustment" comes with a great sacrifice of not having Bridge on other good matchups, like the ones you have just mentioned. But on the other hand, in the last 80 or so matches played, I have faced about 15-18% consistent Sneak and Show, while maybe 1 or 2 instances of TurboDepths and 1 or 2 of Lands.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/27-07...?cb=1532716129
Here's the list I'm thinking of playing going forward. Changes from what I was playing before are -1 HBW, -1 Thorn, -1 Mox for +1 land, +2 Etched Champion. Sideboard I have +1 Karakas +1 Warping Wail -2 Spellskite, which I'm kind of unsure of.
I like 3x Petal to increase our chance of playing a two drop on turn one. Opal can't really do this unless you already have a petal - it acts more like a land than petal does. So -1 mox +1 land is me hedging a bit more for post-board games against fair decks where I'd rather have more actual lands than opal effects I think, without sacrificing the T1 chalice factor of petal.
Trimming a Thorn is kind of the same idea - just sets us up for slightly better G1s against fair decks. I liked Champion and HBW in the deck as cards which really shine against fair decks. Overall I think I prefer HBW for various reasons - I'd rather have a two drop than a three drop, it's better vs fliers, it's better vs unfair decks and gives us sick combo potential with ravager. However, Etched can hold back cards like Goyf and KotR forever and is also really solid against opposing equipment. So for now I'll try 2x each.
It's definitely possible I'll miss having Spellskite, though I haven't really gotten much use out of the card so far. I have wanted just a removal spell, so maybe Dismember is a consideration.
@ quernavak:
My local metagame consists mostly of Miracles, Reanimator, Red snaek, Sfm UW, Red prison, burn, rug delver , storm and goblins
So i think thorn is very good
Tomorrow i will Play 4 thorn and one Golem maindeck. I will also split the chief and the plating. I will Adept my Sideboard in putting in another spyglas up to three, but i think leylines are still better than macabre. I mean only marginal better:smile:
Hangarback walker has underperformed for me because of Stp
But in the end i am happy that the core of my deck can produce so maNy great decks,:cool:
I am very unhappy with my ratchet boms in the sb.
What do you guys Play to get pithing needle, spyglasses and Bridge of the table??
Agreed, Ratched Bomb feels awful. A lot of the things we want to remove are CMC 2, meaning in order to remove an opposing Spyglass we have to usually wipe our own board.
I don't really think there's a better option, though. Mostly I just accept that opposing Revokers/Spyglasses are really good against me. A lot of Bridge decks I've been facing have been exceptionally durdley so I've had time to tick up or find a combo kill with Ballista.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
I've never played the deck so this is just from an outsider's perspective, but is it not feasible to play :w: Disenchant effects from the SB, given the Mox Opals, Lotus Petals, and Karakas? Or is it that you want a sweeper more than you want spot removal for those problematic permanents?Quote:
Originally Posted by aromaticity
To reliably cast a colored spell, you would need at least 13 mana sources. If you have:Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLWut
4 Ancient Den
4 Mox Opal/Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond
The above fit in the available flex slots.
Then we still need 5 sources of colored mana. Those sources would push out fixed slots, such as wasteland/factory. <-- to me this is when the conflict begins when looking into colored spells. Because now I have to figure out whether adding the color would make the deck stronger, when compared to the slots I'm removing. It because a juggle between powerful cards that I can cast vs. powerful cards that *sometimes* I can cast. Therefore the colored cards need to be >>> than the colorless. And the power is not necessarily a "strictly better" sort of thing, it is as you suggests "metagame based". If I really need to maindeck disenchant, then this particular card may be much more powerful than other cards in the deck, therefore making the switch worthwhile. But the problem is that there is no such situation, and you are almost always better off not including colored spells. Or in other words, sometimes the math says that one needs to concede a certain matchup in order to have an overall win% higher than if one tuned the deck to be able to beat that one matchup.
Makes sense. I wasn't sure how big of an emergency the Bridge/Needle/Spyglass problem was.
@Qervanak:
Totally agree with your comments about colored sources. I`ve tinkered with a blue splash, but making the mana worked weakend the decks overall performence to much.
Here is my current list:
4 Walking Ballista
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion 22
1 Chief of the Foundry 23
2 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
2 Welding Jar
4 Thorn of Amythist
1 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void 17
Lands (20):
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Inventor`s Fair
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Sorceress Spyglasses
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
At the moment i would definetly stay away from playing Lodestone Golem. It messes up the mana (far less messing up, than a colorsplash) and the real decks, whre the golem is needed are gone (Food chain, every 4 color pile, grixis delver)
Hello guys. I Try this list
Creatures [25]
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
Artifacts [13]
2 Mox Diamond (don't have opal)
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void
Lands [22]
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard [15]
1 Dismember
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
Any ideas ?
Picking back the deck for GP Richmond. I think it's the best Chalice/Wasteland option available. I'll try to rent some cards to play it online a bit.
@Man of Steel - any feedbacks from Cranial plating? Is it better than SoFi or Jitte? Do you miss Spellskite in the SB?
I dont miss spellskite, because i have 2 Welding jar, which are better positioned at the Moment in my opinion
Plating is ok and definetly better than sofi and jitte:cool:, but i am thinking about playing 2 chief of the foundries instead. In my current list 10 Cards to Support Champions, skirges and the rest of the Crew felt very good to me
I'm intrigued by Chief of the foundry. Trying it out this week at my LGS.
@Man of Steel: I watched back the video/interview about your sideboarding plan to refresh my memory about some of the matchups. Have you updated your sideboard plan with your new list? If so, mind about sharing it?
I am sorry, that walking trough all the sideboard plans is to complicated to write, but there will be another video in the near future:tongue:
Caleb Durward's playing Steel Stompy right now in the Legacy Premier League against Jody Keith on U/W Landstill.
First timer here.
Played a 4x Karn MD version (no golem) of this to a 3-1 finish at my lgs this week. The loss (albeit a close one) , was vs a control deck, sweepers plus standstill and counterspells.. Reactive control seems to be one of the hardest mu:s for us, based on what I've seen and from my very limited experience. They seem to be the ones packing Null Rod/BtB on occasion aswell.
(Wins vs Steel Stompy, DelverNought and Infect)
Anyone tried playing with 8 lords and 8 manlands? Maybe even Cavern of Souls? I'd think changes like that could swing the control MU:s into our favor. Less need to overextend, while keeping up the clock.
Are we willing to pay the price of playing less acceleration for more lands?
I've been experimenting with this deck for about a week.
It seems to have a very bad matchup against Death & Taxes. Anyone beating Death & Taxes consistently with this deck? Love to know how.
Ballista is good and active jitte is good. but they have tools to stop these from performing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager
3 Etched Champion maindeck and 3 spyglasses Sideboard and the matchup is very good:smile:
and dont Play Golem!
Is this deck viable in the current meta? The last list to make it into mtgtop8 was an older list without much of the newer tech talked about.
No hangars, no champions, no jitte.
20 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
24 CREATURES
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
16 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thorn of Amethyst
This very seems very front loaded to me. Like if they put up a good fight in the beginning are we going to fight it out with this list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager
If I would play the deck at the moment, which i will not do, because i think its poorly positioned, i would play the list above - 1 sofi - Golem + 2 Welding Jar
I think 4 golems is too much presure aon the mana base, but the plan of locking out the opponent is the only viable plan with this deck in the current meta
So I took down a team trio's event in Chicago (Pasttimes) this past weekend where I played Steel Stompy.
Here's my list:
1 Hangarback Walker
3 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Mox Opal
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Spellskite
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Karakas
Since I haven't purchased Cities yet, I had to use Poor Man Cities and they sucked... so many games City would've been insane. I test a ton so I knew proper plays (more or less) but sacing the land or not having 2 mana turn 1 was rough.
I went 4-2-1 against
Food Chain (2-1)
Death Shadow (2-1)
Grixis Control (2-1)
Miracles (2-1)
I-D vs Stoneblade
Grixis Control (same opponent 1-2)
Stoneblade (1-2)
My standard teammate went 6-0-1 and modern teammate went 5-1-1. So we took it down!
Thoughts:
I hate lodestone golem. It's so hard on the mana base and doesn't do enough.
I don' think I'll play less than 4 Ensnaring Bridges ever. It was so good in a ton of matchups. In the grixis and stone blade matchup I was able to get under the bridge or just shoot them to death.
I love Karn. I'm gonna try to jam the 2nd one into the deck.
I think the deck is very playable and correct mulliganing is huge!
I'm going to try a more equipment based deck with champions tomorrow at FNM because not having traitors seems to really slow the deck down and I feel it needs to be grindier and win through a clogged board state.
Hey there
I play Chalice Stompy Decks in Legacy for about 3 years now. I started with MUD (Metalworker/Forgemaster), then Big Eldrazi / Legend MUD and finally Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi Aggro and this:
No Shops!
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traktors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Darksteel Citadel
Mana
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
Staxx
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
Beaters
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
4 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
Sideboard
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Etched Champion
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Leyline of the Void
About the choices:
I have no Karakas, so the Citadels are there for Moxes and Ravagers. Thorns are main for fighting Miracles and Combo, because both are quite common where I usually get my Legacy Joy. The Champions as a playset amongst the 75, with additional Equipment and 2 Karns are for the grindy games with UW and those "Tempo" and Aggro Decks (except against Delver, then those Karns usually move to the Sideboard).
- a small exaggeration: those Tempo Delver Decks seem to become bad Control Decks in our favor. We clopper'em good if they got the wrong opener, just like any others -
The 3-ofs in my Sideboard are no playsets due to a calculation. For getting one in your opener (including Mulligans), a 3-of should be enough (going up to 4 is just marginally increasing the probability).
Now the small Tournament today!
There was a small Sideevent announced next to today's Prerelease of Guilds of Ravnica. Only 4 players, so we chose to each play one another.
-Men of Steel
-Lands
-Grixis Delver
-TES
I won it all 3-0, loosing a single game to Lands post board.
This Deck is hilarious!
Either a fast (often really fast) opener, or locking the opponent out is always an option (while a fast clock is sort of a lock-piece), and the lategame usually becomes a combination of "both".
Have Fun
Greetings
Played in small tournament last week. Decided to go with steel stompy instead of stoneblade.
Played this list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventor's Fair
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Karakas
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Etched Champion
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Hangarback Walker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Umezawa's Jitte
R1 Win vs UB delver (teammate)
G1 T1 chalice and efficient creatures get there.
G2 Killed three delver with bomb which heavily swings the second game in my favor.
R2 Win vs BUG reanimator
G1 I have T1 thorn, T2 thorn, T3 thorn + wasteland which gives more than enough time to get there.
G2 I have leyline. He thoughtseizes and reanimates lodestone, but the taxing effect slows him down and he can't attack profitably. My onslaught of threats closes the game quickly.
R3 Loss vs grixis control
G1 He hymns my lodestone and etched champion which would have won me the game.
G2 I have an explosive start with lots of creatures. Hangarback with overseer provides a massive clock and he dies quickly
G3 I have a decent start but don't see any of the gamechanging cards for this matchup (champion and karn) and can't close the game quickly enough before he outvalues me
R5 win vs elves
G1 I have a T1 chalice but he has the reclamation sage for it. Ballista and pressure get there before he gets to do much more
G2 He starts with zenith into arbor followed by T2 cradle, symbiote and manadork, I have the option of nuking his creatures with ravager + ballista + wasteland but that would also leave me without pressure on the board. I decide to waste his cradle and setup for a next turn blowout with pressure backup. Turns out he has natural order, double cradle and hoof in hand. He plays cradle and orders for elderscale wurm, which is a problem I can handle given a few turns. The next turn he plays his other cradle to get to 8 mana and plays hoof, which kills me.
G3 I have a overseer, 2 factories and jitte. I attack with 2/2 overseer equipped with jitte and he opts to kill it with heritage druid + pendelhaven. This allows my jitte to kill wirewood and druid. He plays another wirewood but I just keep animating my factories, equiping and swinging so none of his creatures survive.
R5 ID vs rug delver (I am 4th in standings), this guy ended up winning the tournament.
QF vs my round 1 opponent with UB delver.
G1 my T1 chalice gets forced and I get stuck on one land for a number of turns. He has bitterblossom as a clock and follows up with angler. He hymns away my etched champion and karn after I eventually find my lands but I still get him down to 2 life. Unfortunately he gets to kill me the turn before he would die to his own bitterblossom.
G2 I rip a lot of lands and liliana plus pressure gets him there
All in all a fun experience with the deck again. Etched champion is really good right now because of all the control matchups, as is karn (vs grixis control he just wins on the spot because of the cardadvantage). I've now cut both lodestone golems for the 4th thorn and 2nd hangarback.
Interesting choice to cut all Lodestone Golems. In my experience, opening with T1 Thorn and T2 Golem is close to a hard-lock, even more with Wasteland follow up. Can you give me some more reasons for that?
And Hangarback Walker seems really beautiful combined with Ravager and Overseer. I will test that.
Greetings
Mostly because of the prevalence of grixis control decks now. Grixis plays a playset of baleful strix which gets around both thorn and golem and effectively prevents your golem from doing anything. Besides, T1 thorn, T2 thorn is pretty much almost the same kind of lock for most decks. 4 Mana is also a bit clunky, which can also be said for Karn, but he just outright wins the game vs most control decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinterweltler
I never really liked hangarback tbh, but that is because there have always been a lot of miracles, death and taxes and other stp decks in my meta. Getting a hangarback online just to have it go farming just feels bad. However now with grixis control being the most played control deck the card is just so much better because it always leaves behind more threats.
hi guys,
i just wanted to share my list which is something different as a reaction to the control heavy meta:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Mind Stone
3 Lotus Petal
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Walking Ballista
4 Steel Overseer
4 Etched Champion
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Welding Jar
4 Leyline of the Void
the idea with the creature base is to have cards that are high impact by themselves. drawing a vault skirge vs grixis control/miracles never wins the game. a karn on the other hand is a real threat.
I also decided to run rishadan port in order to attack mana/colours more efficiently. Mostly because the tutor effect from fair rarely comes up and while the lifegain is nice, i doubt it is more relevant than the ability to tap opposing lands. Truely this strategy would be better if lodestone golem was involved, but due to being an overall abyssmal card vs grixis control they were cut in favor of karn. These might turn out to not be good enough with the more grindy threatbase i run and i might cut them once more for darksteel citadel.
missing out on karakas sucks, however i dont really face a lot of sneakshow/reanimator + them getting griselbrand usually still wins through karakas anyways.
I cut mox opal in favor of mind stone. Mox opal is rarely online on turn 1 anyways and more often than not having metalcraft is not a given with this deck. Mind stone on the other hand provides a solid mana rock that can be run out turn 1. this stabilises the mana base, which is one of the decks weak spots. The fact that it can be cycled when we end up flooded on mana, makes it all the more appealing.
the sideboard is still somewhat stock and the result of me not getting to test this configuration too much.
what do you guys think about this approach?
Hi
Mind Stone seems really slow to me, not a worthy replacement for the Mox. Though the card draw can come in handy, the speed of a T1 Mox that gets active is far superior I think.
Replacing the Inventors' Fair with Rishadan Port seems okay, but now there is just a single source of lifegain left in your SB. I'd recommend to play at least some Umezawa's Jitte main, because those few lifepoints regained after excessive use of Ancient Tomb can make all the difference. Also moving above 20 can be a gamechanger versus Marit Lage, when your opponent can't just 20-you into next game. Vault Skirge really comes in handy from time to time.
Just my first thoughts, I can't play that much Legacy right now.
And the lack of Karakas is also a problem here.
Greetings
i agree with the lifegain and karakas part. then again having solid mana rocks means i have to tap tomb less often. i will need to put in more testing.
as far as being slow is concerned: mind stones are slow. especially because you sometimes have to take a turn off to deploy them, but in a meta where the opponent slams baleful strix going fast is not an option.
a mox opal that is online turn 1 and matters on that turn is very rare in my experience. you would need something like vault skirge(or sol land + 2 drop) + petal + opal for opal to do anything except just sit there. getting our other artifacts removed also means that opal is turned off again which can be a huge blowout.
There are several occasions for Mox Opal to get active on T1 (and provide an aggressive start):
-Sol Land, 2 Drop, Mox, Petal, 2 Drop
-Citadel, Mox, Petal, 3 Drop (or 1 and 2)
Furthermore, the Mox also smoothes your Mana when you want to avoid using Ancient Tomb. At least, it feasts Arcbound Ravager for 0 Mana.
true but as i said aggressive starts still do not work vs. grixis control. and may or may not br good vs. miracles (which are the two actual tier1 decks in the format right now).
mox opal is de facto a lot weaker in the mid/late game than mind stone since it cannot be used to draw a card.
personally i think mox opal is okay in a meta where being aggressive is key or when you are splashing a colour in some way.
again i think the de facto weakness is that mox opal is not always online and is usually turned off when we dont control creatures.
This may depend a lot on personal playstyle/preference. I actually had overall more efforts with aggressive openers supported by a Mox than going into the long game with Karn and stuff. That is why I play just one main and a second in my SB, not the full playset as you do. And a hand with multiple lock pieces and few threats, like Chalice, Thorn, Golem, Sol Land is surely supported far better by a Mox than a Mindstone, I'd say. And it probably wins on the play against control when my opponent has no Force of Will, which does happen.
Greetings
Decided to hang up Lands and go back to Stompy for Eternal Weekend. There seems to be a lot of divergence as of late, a couple discussion points:
* What utility land package are you guys using now? I've seen the original Karakas + Fair, Blinkmoth Nexi, Darksteel Citadel, even Rishadan Port. I would certainly keep at least 1 Karakas, and am leaning towards 2. Do you prefer 20 land/4 petal/3 mox or 21/4/2?
* Fewer Revokers. With DRS banned it's more difficult to blind hit, but having 4 MD Revokers won me a lot of matches - I'm reluctant to trim.
* Golem/Karn/Etched Champion. What split are you guys on? I've had a lot of trouble with DnT, so I definitely want at least a couple Champions.
* Equipment in the main - I'm leaning towards 1 Jitte if anything, but unsure.
* Hangarback - I had cut them initially, but they are nice against Grixis/edicts in general. Thoughts?
* Welding Jar/Spellskite in the main - I think I'd generally prefer to run Hangarback in this slot, but Jar does help with Opal.
* Vault Skirge - I am hesitant to cut the lifegain package, but have seen many lists doing so.
Here is a tentative list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Jitte
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Vault Skirge
2 Etched Champion
1 Hangarback Walker
SB
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Karn, Scion of Urza