Like I told you, I'm going to test it right after the testings for CaNG or when Morningtide is officially released, whatever comes first. I think 1 or 2 Court Hussar wouldnt be a problem, maybe -1 myojin, -1 Hussar?
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Like I told you, I'm going to test it right after the testings for CaNG or when Morningtide is officially released, whatever comes first. I think 1 or 2 Court Hussar wouldnt be a problem, maybe -1 myojin, -1 Hussar?
So technically, my build of the Food Chain deck doesn't fit since it...actually doesn't use Evoke creatures ! However, the basic concept is very similar, so I'll share it.
In contrast to the other builds I see here, though, mine doesn't win by building up lots of mana, but rather by "cycling" through the deck, with the creatures replacing themselves. It's not as spectacular as Myojins or similar power creatures, but it is amazingly consistent for what it does. The concept is to get down a Chain, dig through your deck, and finally play a...Storm Entity. This usually happens on turn three. Note that it doesn't have to be large enough to kill in one turn if you have played your Therapies before to ensure no removal or game-winning spell is in your opponents hand. While the build IS of course dependent on getting a Food Chain down, I think it has the necessary tools to combat counterspells better than most builds here, as it can slow-play and use the blue cantrips to get Therapies and creatures to dig further.
So, here it is...
4 Tropical Island
4 Birds of Paradise
8 blue Fetches
3 green Fetches
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Underground Sea
The deck needs blue more than green, to start digging as soon as possible. But first turn green for Birds shouldn't be a problem either. They DO allow second turn kills, though I wouldn't recommend it unless you have the god hand. They are great, of course, for being able to kickstart the Chain the turn you play it. I used to play Elves of Deep Shadow as well, but replaced them with Tombs for testing...
4 Food Chain
1 Aluren
In my build, Aluren does nearly the same thing as Food Chain, i.e. play "free" creatures. This helps, since even with the digging, getting the Chain consistently on turn three is not easy. I might play a second Aluren if it doesn't prove to be too expensive to get down turn three constantly.
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
The best digging for one mana right now.
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Raven Familiar
3 Cloud of Faeries
The "cycling". Basically, Wall and Oracle can dig before Chain comes down as well, while Familiar and Recruiter are usually only played after (digging with Raven is kinda clunky, but needed against hardcore control decks). The idea is to chain creatures together until you have collected enough spells for a big Storm Entity. It doesn't look like the chain would go on for long, but you have to factor the Brainstorms and Ponders in, which is what the Clouds are for. Brainstorm/Ponder + Recruiter/Raven gives a nice boost, of course, and gets you the needed creatures. Hell, Recruiter alone already gives +5/+5 !
2 Storm Entity
The kill. Two is enough since Recruiters can fetch them. As I said before, a 11/11 attacking on turn three is enough if you have already Therapied them. Two 11/11 should be enough even without Therapy most of the time.
4 Cabal Therapy
OMG is this card good here...since if the game goes beyond turn three, you usually don't need all the Chain mana, so you can just drop the Walls, Oracles, and Ravens you have to use with Therapy. One Therapy is sometimes enough to get rid of all relevant disruption, and more than two is never needed.
As to Slithermuse, that's going to be tested, but I dare say that while it might be good, it probably isn't going to be broken. I also cried for joy when I saw Reveillark on the Morningtide spoiler...but alas, that stupid Chain removes from game. THAT might have been broken otherwise.
Why no Mulldrifter ? I don't need more than seven of those "power cyclers" (drawing more than one or drawing selectively), and Recruiter/Raven are just better. I realized this when I noticed that Recruiter always got the Ravens, not the Drifters. As to digging before Chain is down, three mana is a lot for those kind of decks since I usually also want to cast Therapies, Brainstorms, and Ponder. The extra mana is never needed in this deck, since the Entities can always be cast at the end of the chain, and the other creatures always can be cast off the one extra mana you get from each creature. Mulldrifter also doesn't do anything with Food Chain #5 (Aluren), but that's not the main reason they are missing.
Why no Nantuko Cultivator ? Because without Mulldrifter, the deck usually doesn't have many dead cards (lands) in hand while going off.
As for the sideboard, nothing is carved in stone yet, but the following cards are probably needed:
Xantid Swarm - Four of them. Can even be sacced to Therapy if you need to go off this turn, and kickstarts Chain.
Wipe Away - Better than Grip because of those Meddling Mages. You also have Therapy to get it from the hand.
Pernicious Deed - For when there are more than one troubling permanents on the board, for example Needle + Mage, Balance + Mage, Needle + Chalice...
Basic Island and Forest - The maindeck won't survive a Blood Moon.
Alternate Win Condition - Brain Freeze might do the trick, though it slows you down a bit since it can't be cast off Chain mana.
Thoughtseize - for the combo matchup.
Alternatively, there's of course also the beatdown transformation, with the obligatory four Goyfs, and probably Werebears or Negators as well. But I don't think it's the way to go here.
As always, comments and suggestions are very welcome !
Very interesting. I think that both decks should merge into something better. Cabal Therapy is certainly one of the best control cards for the deck.
The problem with storm entity's kill is :
- it can be blocked by creatures with red protection (WW, FS)
- " " " " " " " regeneration (Lynx, Boas, ...)
- " " " chumpblocked by creatures (EtW tokens, gobs, elves, hibernatus sliver)
- it can be killed by a topdeck
Then I don't like the cantrips in the deck as they are very bad topdecks during the combo. Imperial recruiter has been proved to be bad too, because it's awful precombo and it does not mean gg during combo. Actually shuffling is bad during combo. The deck can play FoW and I don't see any reason not to do it.
// Lands 19
4 Gemstone Mine
3 [U] Tropical Island
1 [5E] Forest
1 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [B] Island
1 [U] Underground Sea
1 [U] Bayou
// Creatures 24
4 [LOR] Mulldrifter
4 [UL] Raven Familiar
4 [DIS] Court Hussar
3 [CHK] Myojin of Seeing Winds
4 [DIS] Coiling Oracle
4 Cloud of Faeries
1 [SOK] Maga, Traitor to Mortals
// Spells 18
4 [MM] Food Chain
4 Cabal Therapy
1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
shuffling isn't bad at all IMO. Imperial Recruiter can chain if needed to generate mana to a myojin of seeing winds. And it can hold back some dudes while you're digging for food chain. Recruiter for recruiter for recruiter for recruiter is often situational, but it has given me some games.
Seriously, Mulldrifter is the MVP of the deck, because simple "cycling" effects are too random too depend on. I agree that Raven is somewhat awesome.
How do you like Idyllic Tutor? Gaining real card qualitity instead of waiting a turn is pretty good, no? Of course, Enlightenend Tutor can be cast at turn 1 with i.e. gemstone mine, a turn 2 food chain, pitching one vine dryad to another, gain mana, food chaining through entire deck for 25 mana, cast maga first for 20 damage and then storm entity for a backup plan.
Entity and Maga are the only creature cards in the deck that don't give you any card quality/advantage (except for vine dryad in my build). Also, Maga can be a mini-maga, and then stomping some goyfs as a i.e. 10/10. The thing i previously said about recovering after a nonlthal finish or a fizzle isn't that hard. When you fizzle, you often have a hell lot of vine dryads, and they can protect you in some turns so you get a pretty large chance of topdecking a creature. When you do, you often combo out again.
I would say that my build, which I publish at CaNG today or tomorrow is the optimal build so far. But that's maybe just me, food chain can be an archetype card like life from the loam, and of course the deck can be played in many ways.
I still don't understand how people are running this kind of deck without Pact of Negation. It's either a completely all-in or a mostly all-in combo deck (depending on the build) that wins in a single turn.
Idyllic tutor appears too slow unless you loaded up on chrome mox and mox diamond, plus some additional lands to support the diamond. A build including these might have some kind of chance, but it takes up a lot of space in a list that's looking tight as it is. Then again, moxen are -1 card advantage while enlightened tutor is also -1 card advantage. So maybe they have a way of balancing each other out; one has the advantage of getting you the card you want at one mana but you typically wait a turn to get it, while the other has the advantage of getting you permanent mana to get the card you want now (but you usually can't cast it this turn anyway).
I'm not a player of the deck so I won't comment too much on detailed card choices involving the combo or the chain. I will, however, say a few things. Mulldrifter is the stone cold nutz with a food chain out. A singleton ingot chewer can product some sick mana. Raven familiar looks like a solid idea. Playing some kind of aluren/FC hybrid is worth exploring, seeing as how they can each have game winning combos by themselves but also have synergy when both are in play.
ok, so im sorry if this has been answered like 10 times but... for the evoke creatures, do you get the effect before you remove it with food chain?
If we could discuss this in the CaNG, it would be fine :-) However:
@Androstanolone: Force of Will is surprisingly, a much better choice. If opponent stifles maga trigger, you can still win with beatdown. You won't be able to do that with PoN. Also, PoN can often, in most situations be too dangerous to cast in response to i.e. a Myojin of the Seeing Winds. The chances of fizzling are there, and if you Pact a myojin that draws into crap anyway, what's the big deal of losing next turn?
More Lands mean more inconsistensy. Acceleration in form of raw card disadvantage is pretty sucky. Chrome pitches an important creature, and mox diamond pitches maybe a the single mana source you have left in hand. Raising to 26 lands or some might not be a good idea, really.
Mana acceleration is, as stated earlier, overkill. You get enough mana to kill the opponent anyway, which is the most important. However, if some acceleration should be needed, Shriekmaw will probably be best to destroy meddling mage and so on.
@THEchubbymuffin: Yes, you get the evoke trigger, this is why they are played :) It goes like this: Play creature, put on the stack, resolve, evoke sacrifice trigger on the stack, comes into play trigger on the stack (or reverse oder), response to sacrifice trigger by removing it from the game.