[Deck] Affinity

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Originally Posted by jseed

Can you post your list so I can test it out? RUG is one matchup where I think signal pest is probably better, but I guess I'll find out.

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My list is essentially the stock list, with my "17th land" as Paradise Mantle, and 4 Pest -> 3 SFM + Skull. The only reason you can say that Pest is better than SFM against RUG game 1 (you take out Pests for Chalice post-board, no use talking about games 2/3), is that you haven't played with SFM against RUG. Signal Pest is great when you're winning. SFM is even better when you're winning, since you can go for Batterskull if you already have Plating. When you're losing, SFM is miles better than Pest as a topdeck.

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The only thing sfm dodges that plating doesn't is spell pierce. And if you're resolving SFM there's a good chance you could resolve MoE in which case they are just dead unless they have an ancient grudge. If they do have grudge sure having MoE sucks, essentially they are up a mana on you, but if you had batterskull instead you spent two turns instead of one and just ended up with a squire. Ideally you just hard cast a plating in this situation. Realistically that's all I ever want to do since plating is that good. Plating for four mana over two turns is just not the same.

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"If you're resolving SFM, there's a good chance you could resolve MoE..." is blatantly false when you're talking about a deck that uses Daze and Wasteland...

You're right, paying four mana for Plating over two turns (or one) isn't better than topdecking Plating or opening with it. But it's better than having access to none, which is what can happen when your opponent tries to interact with your artifacts. I mean, you said in your posts you wanted to increase your threat density, and I'm recommending you a card that does that. Signal Pest isn't a bad card, but it's the card you want to cut for SFM because Tezzeret is a such a bomb against control and you need Ravager to make use of hands that only have artifact mana and dorks in them.

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It seems like batterskull would be good in this matchup, though they have two full turns to find an answer and they are probably spinning top. Signal pest is obviously miserable here. I think I would prefer Tezzert #4 first, and then I'm not sure what would be ideal after that. Every match I play against miracles feels super hard unless I just draw the nuts.

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And take 4? That's fine with me. You're also forgetting that Batterskull can restart itself. It's not unrealistic to spend turns bouncing Skull and replaying it if you and your Miracles are in topdeck mode.

Miracles isn't that hard. You have to play for resiliency and less for explosiveness. Play your creatures conservatively. Don't cast all of your Thopters/Memnites because you want to save them to activate Drums right away post-Terminus. Throw everything you have into counters or removal before casting Tezzeret, or cast Tezzeret if they're tapped out.

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I think you're right and MoE is probably too slow and it does cost colored mana. SFM has the same problems though. It may have a good etb, but once it's there it's a 1/2 that's not even an artifact. SFM is so good in other decks because they have some ability to protect it and more interactive cards that allow them to do stuff other than just attack while they get their Batterskull online. Affinity just isn't built like that. 2WW for a 4/4 just seems worse than 2U for a 6/6+Anthem. If MoE is win more then SFM is win way more. Levin actually just says, if MoE isn't doing it for you then stoneforge is probably just worse, and steelshaper's gift is probably better than sfm anyway.

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Dude, c'mon. Master of Etherium and Stoneforge Mystic are totally different cards; Affinity and Stoneblade are different decks. The roles SFM plays in either deck couldn't be more distinct.

Like I said, I don't agree with everything Drew Levin says about Affinity, and his analysis of SFM is where I think he's completely dead wrong. He clearly has never tried the card. I used to think SFM was garbage, mind you. My opinion changed when I tried a 1-of, and then as I played with it, I wanted more copies.

Don't knock the card until you're tried it.

Hi guys,

Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Vault Skirge
2 Signal Pest
2 Arcbound Ravager
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Hi guys,

Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.

4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Vault Skirge
2 Signal Pest
2 Arcbound Ravager
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum

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Sorry if I'm being harsh, but please try to have more content than: "Here's my list, do my work for me." You have 500+ posts on this forum.

I think that SFM is just as weak a card as signal pest in the affinity shell, batterskull isn't imposing and isn't particularly on gameplan. it also shoves the CMC of the deck up by a small fraction and constricts the mana base to support 3 colors main board as opposed to 2 one of which is a splash, after board sure I admit to spreading my colors thin for Side Board options against a vast array of decks. but what does stoneforge mystic do in the deck I'll compare them

Signal Pest MC 1
Attacks
Blocks
Carry's equipment
Improves your 0 cmc creatures
turns on drum
psuedo flying

Stoneforge Mystic MC 1W
Attacks
Blocks
Carry's equipment
turns on drum
searches for equipment

basically you are trading in the ability to make your weaker creatures actually matter, and SFM can't carry a plating as well as a signal pest, the individual power levels of the cards are not close but when you compare them to each other in the deck the Signal Pest is more cohesive to the deck,and yes both version of the deck have done well but I feel that the SFM version is just not as cohesive, you traded in smoother draws for raw power, and those rare chances where you get stranded with a batterskull in hand are going to happen, and the times where i draw a signal pest and just die are going to happen.

My last note I want to make is that a 0 drop land with summoning sickness is just so much weaker than a land, you can't be afraid of wasteland, you just can't.
The mantle as a land is more like a springleaf drum that is 100x worse because it doesn't work on t1 which is very important, both are horrible topdecks, and if you are searching for a mantle off of an SFM then you are probably in a poor position to win that game as it stands. I would rather have 2 lands in hand then a card that is basically a land that adds to metalcraft since there are very few situations where you don't have metalcraft as it is.

but this is just my opinion on those cards, if they are providing good positive results for you then awesome!

i will give my opinion on this one as well

F8iscruel (somehow sad name, but true sometimes), made some good points

the diffenrence between the lists is manabase requirements, and the SFM vs Pest is trading raw power vs smooth draws

could not have said it better

allthough on the paradise mantle topic in the SFM lists i have to disagree with F8iscruel
paradise mantle adds to metalcraft, yes
paradise mantle is basically worse than any land/springleaf drum

but, paradise mantle in those lists does not take a slot of any other business spell, it takes a slot of a land
paradise mantle is only sometimes for ramping, but IMO rarely used for that purpose, but for manastability
paradise mantle is basically a tutorable land, which you might need sometimes to cast tezzeret, if you maybe miss your last mana to cast him, and do not need to fetch for anything like batterskull or plating

basically from this you can allready tell that paradise mantle is only good in specific matchups, namely the ones where you would want to be able to cast a tezzeret with ease, want to be able to hardcast a batterskull, or want to play around softcounters


if i got something wrong, please correct me, because i am not that used to playing affinity anymore, and i might have written something completely wrong

I think that tutoring for a land is just not that great.

I'm not a math person so I can't give exact mathematical precisions but I can do it with numbers and hopefully it makes sense.

60 cards in deck
3 cards are tezzeret
17 lands
4 Mox Opal (Mox Petal)
4 Drum
=
25 Mana sources
25/60 mana sources which is a little bit higher than 1/3 cards in the deck being a man source.
now to break it down further
4 Black Sources
4 Blue Sources
4 White Sources
9 Gold Sources

this is the "stock" list of affinity to date if people were to use levin's list as the stock affinity build.

this means that 13/60 cards tap for blue OR Black, that equates to roughly 1 in 6 cards.

now I know things like this are not set in stone "always have this card in X amount of time" but my point is that on average you should be able to cast your cards with little to no problem this is because

25 mana sources, 17 of which are lands
CMC of the deck breaks down as follow (bear in mind that i am treating vault skirge as a cmc 1 creature)
12 0 cmc spells (8 creatures)
12 1 cmc spells (8 creatures)
8 2 cmc spells (4 creatures)
4 3 cmc spells (4 creatures)
3 4cmc Spells (tezzeret)
4 5 cmc spells (thought cast, typically costs 1)

only 2 spells in the deck have a color requirement, and of those 2 spells only one requires a constrictive mana cost of UB2 while the other "Typically" costs just U, and I cannot do the math on having both U and B mana available to you in the deck, but it shouldn't come down to having to tutor for it.

the other problem that arises is that as I stated previously the fact that you cannot use it the turn it comes down, while not truly a crutch, makes it not a land, it does nothing on turn 1, uses a mana on turn 2, and on turn 3 its probably at its peak, and after that its just worse than a springleaf drum on a top deck (your opponent being able to kill the creature the equipment is targeting, not that they would but why give your opponent more opportunities to use spells and disrupt you?)

Sure it can't be wastelanded but I mean this deck actually runs pretty tight and I don't want to spend 1 mana to equip it to a creature to net a color that may or may not matter, when if I were to just naturally draw a land or a mana rock it would be the same thing. especially when if I drew a land where that card was I wouldn't have to worry about putting it on a creature and effectively taking that creature out of combat permanently if i am in need of that mana at any later point in the game.

the fact that you can tutor for it is just such a narrow argument to it's inclusion in a deck where the cmc is like 1.5 and only has 1 spell that actually is constricted on mana, and one other spell that has an actual color requirement (ignoring the BB ability on cranial plating because that is literal gravy).

I think that drawing a land as opposed to drawing a mantle is just better, and spending 2 mana to tutor a "land" seems like a waste of 2 mana when you can get things like plating, jitte, and b-skull with the card.

(once again I'm not a math person I am just making "guesstimations" on numbers please don't take that as a fault to my argument because my margin of error doesnt seem to be too bad, my grammar on the other hand...)


EDIT:

Levin's stock list with glimmervoid instead of tundra because DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

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Originally Posted by F8iscruel

I think that SFM is just as weak a card as signal pest in the affinity shell, batterskull isn't imposing and isn't particularly on gameplan. it also shoves the CMC of the deck up by a small fraction and constricts the mana base to support 3 colors main board as opposed to 2 one of which is a splash, after board sure I admit to spreading my colors thin for Side Board options against a vast array of decks. but what does stoneforge mystic do in the deck I'll compare them

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The mana constriction problem you're positing is something you're simply imagining to be more of a problem than it is. If you really want to discuss the liability SFM has on the manabase, then you can't go on theorycrafting. Test it out and then tell me SFM mana screws the deck. It doesn't.

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basically you are trading in the ability to make your weaker creatures actually matter, and SFM can't carry a plating as well as a signal pest, the individual power levels of the cards are not close but when you compare them to each other in the deck the Signal Pest is more cohesive to the deck,and yes both version of the deck have done well but I feel that the SFM version is just not as cohesive, you traded in smoother draws for raw power, and those rare chances where you get stranded with a batterskull in hand are going to happen, and the times where i draw a signal pest and just die are going to happen.

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That's the evolution of the deck, my friend. Or was when midrange was more popular. I guess with tempo being back in vogue and TNN pushing out RUG or midrange, going back to explosive builds might be an option.

I don't really get stranded with Batterskull in hand. It only costs :5: if I am forced to hardcast it, but we're discussing its inclusion in a 25-mana source deck that includes 4 Ancient Tombs. The card is not Progenitus, bro.

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My last note I want to make is that a 0 drop land with summoning sickness is just so much weaker than a land, you can't be afraid of wasteland, you just can't.
The mantle as a land is more like a springleaf drum that is 100x worse because it doesn't work on t1 which is very important, both are horrible topdecks, and if you are searching for a mantle off of an SFM then you are probably in a poor position to win that game as it stands. I would rather have 2 lands in hand then a card that is basically a land that adds to metalcraft since there are very few situations where you don't have metalcraft as it is.

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All of the mana sources I've tried in that "17th land" slot, i.e. Glimmervoid; Paradise Mantle: Lotus Petal, all have their distinct ups and downs. None are strictly better than the other. Glimmervoid is utterly useless when you have already hit all of the colors you want and the quantity of mana you want; not to mention, it has a self-destruct clause. Lotus Petal is faster than either Glimmervoid or Paradise Mantle, but its perishable value can be limiting. I HATE using the "it's a matter of preference" argument when discussing cards, but I think it can be applied here because the differences between all of those cards are so small and minute.

SFM->Mantle is rarely the best play you want to make, but it does come up. Sometimes you need to cast Tezz and you don't have time to topdeck the right mana source to cast Tezz. Or you need one more artifact to kill your opponent with the Tezz ultimate and you don't have mana to cast SFM and Plating. Or you need Ravager or Plating to get even bigger to deal more damage. It happens in games. I went for a 10 point Infect Kill with SFM->Mantle to give my Ravager 9 counters to distribute to my Inkmoth.

Hi there,

i am new to this forum and i wanted to check your thoughts on my affinity list. I am playing in a meta that seems to change all the time, but always has a high percentage of tempo and stoneblade decks.

Land/ Mana
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum

Meat
4 Vault Skirge
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
3 Signal Pest
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Etched Champion

Other
3 Cranial Plating
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas Jitte
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Manriki Gusari
2 Oblivion Ring

For the beginning I am interested in the following questions:

1) What do you think of the 2 chalice and the 3 signal pest in the same deck?

2) Whats your oppinion on cutting 4 thoughtcast and taking 4 thalia in instead?

3) Do you think it is a mistake not to play 4 cranial plating? the plan was to put them into play with sfm without paying 3 because of thalia. I am even considering playing just 2 but not sure.

4) Do you think Phyrexian Revoker and Manriki Gusari are good sb options for this deck? If not what would be better in your eyes?

5) I took in oblivion ring into the sb against show and tell or something like energy field (rest in pieces) or humility and so on. Do you think 2 are enough or should i take more? or do you think they do a bad job?

Ok that should be enough for now. Looking forward for oppinions ;-)

Welcome to The Source! Thanks for posting your decklist and providing your own thoughts. I'll be happy to answer your questions. If you read below, you will see that I have answered your questions in bold writing.

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Originally Posted by Asmahasmalaria

For the beginning I am interested in the following questions:

1) What do you think of the 2 chalice and the 3 signal pest in the same deck?

Don't run Chalice MD, or any hatebears MD like Revoker or Canonist. The small increase in your g1 against combo isn't worth the weakened power level of your deck when facing the decks you have a good chance of beating G1. MD Thalia may be an exception, though.

2) Whats your oppinion on cutting 4 thoughtcast and taking 4 thalia in instead?

If you insist on testing MD Thalia, you should find something to cut other than Thoughtcast. Thoughtcast is essential. Keep in mind under Thalia, you can still cast Thoughtcast for :u: if you control >=5 artifacts.

3) Do you think it is a mistake not to play 4 cranial plating? the plan was to put them into play with sfm without paying 3 because of thalia. I am even considering playing just 2 but not sure.

Even if you are fixed on Thalia, I still thinking playing less than 4 Cranial Plating is a mistake because you don't have any other cards that can substitute each Plating's raw power that isn't cheaper (see Tezz).

4) Do you think Phyrexian Revoker and Manriki Gusari are good sb options for this deck? If not what would be better in your eyes?

I think Revoker/Needle might be considerable options, more so now because of TNN decks trying to win you over with a guaranteed Jitte hit. I think Manriki is cool with SFM, but you have to consider the worst scenarios where they already have Jitte online. In those scenarios, Gusari doesn't do much if they can respond to your Equip with Jitte counters. If you want to seriously address Jitte, you might want to consider Revoker/Needle.

5) I took in oblivion ring into the sb against show and tell or something like energy field (rest in pieces) or humility and so on. Do you think 2 are enough or should i take more? or do you think they do a bad job?

O-Ring is solid. It also removes Reanimated fatties should you fail to find graveyard hate against Reanimator. However, against Sneak-Show, it only attacks one angle effectively, which is the S&T play. It's not a good answer to Sneak Attack. You do run Revoker to handle Sneak Attack, but it's bad against S&T. Having a variety of cards that only have one singular use against S&S in a linear aggro deck may subject you to variance if you draw the right answer to the wrong card, say Revoker and they S&T->Emrakul. :cry:

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Thanks for your thoughts on my list.
I think i will change my list as following:

Maindeck
-2 Chalice of the void
+1 Signal Pest
+1 Springleaf Drum

Sideboard
- 2 Phyrexian Revoker
+ 2 Chalice of the void

1) I get your point. So i am going to a signal pest for chalice boarding option.

2) I tried out thoughtcast but i think the requirement of 5 artifacts for cc U is too much. Especially when your lands get wastelanded or your creatures bolted i see too much risk together with thalia, ancient tomb and glimmervoid. Besides its even if castable for U just a cardadvantage of 1. So SfM and Tezzeret will have to be enough for cardadvantage for my list

3) You are right about cranial plating beeing the best card for the given mana cost. But i also run 4 SfM which makes my list have 7 virtual platings. But 2 will be too less i think.

4) When i added revoker i thought more of things like pernicous deed or engineered explosives. Against combo decks it can hit the LED too. For the TNN Matchup i wanted to take in the engineered plague, which should do fine against TNN and can also be used against delver, although its just -1/-1 if it already flipped. If you are facing a patriot deck hitting delver means also hitting grim lavamancer. The devastating effect for goblins, elves and merfolk not to mention. On the other hand with the possibility of casting SfM on turn 1 i should regularly be faster with equiment on the table than the stoneblade player. The case in which he already has a jitte online i will answer with o-ring i think. But i have to admit not having this szenario in mind until now.

5) I get your point with the variety of threats and answers. This also lead me to cutting the revoker and relying on thalia and chalice against the cantrip, o-ring against emrakul und ethersworn canonist against omni show.

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Originally Posted by Asmahasmalaria

2) I tried out thoughtcast but i think the requirement of 5 artifacts for cc U is too much. Especially when your lands get wastelanded or your creatures bolted i see too much risk together with thalia, ancient tomb and glimmervoid. Besides its even if castable for U just a cardadvantage of 1. So SfM and Tezzeret will have to be enough for cardadvantage for my list

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If you think Thoughtcast is too expensive, then why are you running Tezz? He's even worse with Thalia on your board. And Thalia is still a bad excuse to cut Thoughtcast, because Thoughtcast can be cast before Thalia and after if you have enough artifacts. It could help if you didn't cut the 4th Seat and 4th Vault, which completely baffles me. This isn't directed at you, but I've seen way too many lists posted here with less than 4 artifact lands of each appropriate color in their build, and it drives me NUTS. You, as in all of you guys running 3-of Seats, are making your deck weaker to include terrible lands (e.g. Glimmervoid) that don't do anything when you are already able to cast anything you want! It makes no sense unless you're terrified of extreme hate like Null Rod, and even that doesn't make sense because nobody plays Null Rod! [/rant]

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3) You are right about cranial plating beeing the best card for the given mana cost. But i also run 4 SfM which makes my list have 7 virtual platings. But 2 will be too less i think.

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Or you can take out MD Jitte. MD Jitte was only useful preceding the legend rule change because you can neutralize your opponent's Jitte or force them to neutralize yours. With the new change, it's a pretty worthless MD slot.

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4) When i added revoker i thought more of things like pernicous deed or engineered explosives. Against combo decks it can hit the LED too. For the TNN Matchup i wanted to take in the engineered plague, which should do fine against TNN and can also be used against delver, although its just -1/-1 if it already flipped. If you are facing a patriot deck hitting delver means also hitting grim lavamancer. The devastating effect for goblins, elves and merfolk not to mention. On the other hand with the possibility of casting SfM on turn 1 i should regularly be faster with equiment on the table than the stoneblade player. The case in which he already has a jitte online i will answer with o-ring i think. But i have to admit not having this szenario in mind until now.

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Plague doesn't answer Jitte itself, which is and has been the major problem with those type of decks, not hexproof guys like TNN or Geist.

I think I might take back what I said about MD Needle effects if TNN does end up warping the meta. Against TNN decks, Tezzeret isn't so great because you can't ramp it to 4 counters and expect to block all of your opponent's creatures if one of them is TNN, since it virtually can't be blocked. If TNN does end up warping the meta, I might try 3 MD Needles instead of 3 MD Tezz to hedge up my G1 against Blade/TNN decks. I prefer Needle over Revoker because I don't want my solution to Jitte be neutralized by creature removal.

Hi all. I ended up making day two with an affinity brew at the last legacy Grand Prix in Washington D.C. This was the first and only legacy event I have played in. I love the format and want to play more. Here is the list with some feedback from the event to follow.

4 signal pest
4 ornithopter
4 memnite
4 vault skirge
3 arcbound ravager
4 gitaxian probe
4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 tangle wire
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas
4 mox opal
3 springleaf drum
4 seat of synod
4 vault of whispers
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port

Sb:
2 umezawa's jitte
2 toxic deluge
2 spell pierce
4 cabal therapy
3 etched champion
1 grafdigger's cage
1 nihil spellbomb

I ended up 7-2 on day one with one loss to an ad nauseam combo deck and another loss to red/white/blue delver. The highlights of the deck were rishadan port/wasteland/tangle wire. There were tons of games where the pressure followed up by resource denial seemed abusively strong. Moreso, wasteland and tangle wire. I could see getting rid of the rishadan ports even though they helped me with the win and in keeping sneak and show off one of their colors combined with wasteland. Tezzeret should have been upped to a 3 or 4 of. It was the card I wanted to draw the most of any. Gitaxian probe helped me, personally, a decent amount. I needed the hand knowledge to help with decisions plus it let me know when I could go all in at times. Against combo and control it had great synergy with cabal therapy. Arcbound Ravager was pretty damn good especially against dredge killing bridge from below. Should have been a 4 of.
Umezawa's jitte was amazing in all the dudes on dudes matches as well as etched champion. Toxic deluge was the MVP of the tournament which should be upped to a 3 of. It destroyed 2 elves matchups and 2 rug matchups. The card seems off and awkward in this deck, but I was mainly siding it in on the draw. Your opponents do not see it coming. There were two problems with the deck for me. 1. Once stabilized against, it can be difficult to push through if you don't have a tezzeret. 2. This deck can be very punishing when you mulligan. Mulliganing beyond 6 was too punishing considering the potential draws loaded with ornithopters and memnites. I guess the potential weak openings with the deck after mulliganing should be seriously considered when deciding to play this deck. I wanted to play chalice of the void in the sideboard, but I was not as familiar with what matchups the card helped against. Basically, I didn't want to get punished for my ignorance. I don't know enough of the format to give the best insight about what cards should be in there now, but if there are any updates I will post them.

Adding Waste + Port to accompany Tangle Wire is pretty innovative and it's something I never thought of, despite playing with The Wire. Bravo!

While I don't think Probe belongs in Affinity lists, I think you were smart to run them based on your admission of not knowing enough about the format. It makes more sense to me now when I see Probes in lists, because you're right, it does give you more information to decide if you want to go all-in. Arcbound Ravager is undoubtedly the most difficult card to use in the deck, and without information of your opponent's hand, it can be difficult to assess the game state and decide when to start feeding the beast. Over time, once you have enough experience with Affinity, you will be able to know how to respond with Ravager activations in different scenarios.

To address your concerns about the deck losing gas or having bad mulligans, the only solution to this is making the deck's creature base more robust... without cutting mana sources. You're running a total of 19 creatures, which is severely low. For example, I run 23 creatures, not including the 4 Inkmoth + 1 Batterskull I run, which virtually makes my creature count 28. Etched Champion should be MD, because you really want to win as much G1s against fair matchups as you can. Taking out Probes would be another way to go, since they become unnecessary once you become more confident with the deck. Having a more robust and consistent offense is what lead me to run Stoneforge Mystic, especially with Batterskull.

If you think Thoughtcast is too expensive, then why are you running Tezz? He's even worse with Thalia on your board. And Thalia is still a bad excuse to cut Thoughtcast, because Thoughtcast can be cast before Thalia and after if you have enough artifacts. It could help if you didn't cut the 4th Seat and 4th Vault, which completely baffles me. This isn't directed at you, but I've seen way too many lists posted here with less than 4 artifact lands of each appropriate color in their build, and it drives me NUTS. You, as in all of you guys running 3-of Seats, are making your deck weaker to include terrible lands (e.g. Glimmervoid) that don't do anything when you are already able to cast anything you want! It makes no sense unless you're terrified of extreme hate like Null Rod, and even that doesn't make sense because nobody plays Null Rod!

I thought it over and decided to run 3 Thoughtcast now, cutting 1 springleaf drum (down to 3), 1 Etched Champion (same) and 1 Signal pest (same).
Furthermore i went to 4 Seat of the Synod and 2 Vault of Whispers. But with Glimmervoid i disagree. My personal feeling for a solid manabase with 3 colours and my experience tells me to fix it, especially because of white. I really want that white mana at turn 2. So i figured 13 white sources are better than 11. Its a trade - stability for power (less affinity-count), and it works in my eyes.


Plague doesn't answer Jitte itself, which is and has been the major problem with those type of decks, not hexproof guys like TNN or Geist.

I think I might take back what I said about MD Needle effects if TNN does end up warping the meta. Against TNN decks, Tezzeret isn't so great because you can't ramp it to 4 counters and expect to block all of your opponent's creatures if one of them is TNN, since it virtually can't be blocked. If TNN does end up warping the meta, I might try 3 MD Needles instead of 3 MD Tezz to hedge up my G1 against Blade/TNN decks. I prefer Needle over Revoker because I don't want my solution to Jitte be neutralized by creature removal.

I am not sure if this is really the point but if you see it like that i would take revokers instead of needles. Sure they can be handled way easier - but they do damage, they can carry equipment themselves, they can mute LEDs, target mana sources like deathrite shamans and be played although you play chalice in g2 and so on. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my eyes clearly. I agree with tezzeret beeing bad against TNN decks. Its just that i would take them out in g2 for plagues

So, I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere in the 70+ pages of this thread, but I've just been wondering whether Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is really what the Affinity deck wants. I understand that he basically goes +1, then "I win" the next turn, but it just seems like he's the only card that really taxes the manabase at all and he seems a bit slow. I'm just wondering if running additional, redundant creatures would be better, or perhaps Steelshaper's Gift as additional virtual Cranial Platings.

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Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle

So, I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere in the 70+ pages of this thread, but I've just been wondering whether Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is really what the Affinity deck wants. I understand that he basically goes +1, then "I win" the next turn, but it just seems like he's the only card that really taxes the manabase at all and he seems a bit slow. I'm just wondering if running additional, redundant creatures would be better, or perhaps Steelshaper's Gift as additional virtual Cranial Platings.

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It's certainly a good point. I think the way affinity is built right now though it probably needs it. It's great for being able to filter through all those horrible top decks.

one thing i have been thinking about lately is the following

in a swarm-style affinity build without SFM, meaning using signal pest usually

has anyone thought of flayer husk instead of pest or vault skirge?

it is basically a 1-mana creature, still gets us affinity even if the token is not an artifact, and if the germ dies or is not needed anymore (maybe even let it be killed against dredge to remove brigdes) it could power up a bit our other small dudes, and with multiples you could make a champion or a fromgite become a real threat even without ravager or plating

what do u think?

EDIT: just noticed that the equip cost is 2 and not 1 as i thought before.... makes this more cute than usefull maybe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

one thing i have been thinking about lately is the following

in a swarm-style affinity build without SFM, meaning using signal pest usually

has anyone thought of flayer husk instead of pest or vault skirge?

it is basically a 1-mana creature, still gets us affinity even if the token is not an artifact, and if the germ dies or is not needed anymore (maybe even let it be killed against dredge to remove brigdes) it could power up a bit our other small dudes, and with multiples you could make a champion or a fromgite become a real threat even without ravager or plating

what do u think?

EDIT: just noticed that the equip cost is 2 and not 1 as i thought before.... makes this more cute than usefull maybe

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While maybe not terrible in the abstract, Flayer Husk is just so much weaker than Signal Pest and Vault Skirge. Both of those creatures offer evasion and Vault Skirge + Cranial Plating allows Affinity to win so many games it would otherwise have no chance in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle

... Vault Skirge + Cranial Plating allows Affinity to win so many games it would otherwise have no chance in.

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That's exactly what I say about Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Inkmoth Nexus.

Speaking of Nexus, it's time I hop on my soapbox again and claim that if you are competent with using Ravager in Affinity, then you should be running Inkmoth over Ancient Tomb. It's better because Inkmoth can win you the game, in a nutshell. If you are not completely confident in your skills using Ravager, you should stick to Tomb. I'm not saying that last remark as an insult. I know firsthand how difficult it is to manipulate Ravager into winning games. But if you aren't able to see a line of play where Ravager + Inkmoth can win you the game, whether you go all-in on one turn with a 10 power Inkmoth or you take the gambit of attacking them in two swings with a 5/5 Inkmoth, then Inkmoth is only a liability to you.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Inkmoth ups your creature count while doubling as mana. This mitigates the 'running out of gas' problem that everyone's keen on documenting. Furthermore, having it against combo gives you a fast way to win if you happen to prevent them from going off, even momentarily. I've personally killed ANT Storm with an Inkmoth kill twice in the same match, G1 and G3. It's a very clutch card if you know how to use Ravager to support it, and most of my wins with infect come from using Ravager to assist kill with Inkmoth.

why not run both, inkmoth and ancient tomb?

for a straight UB-shell this should be possible