[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

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12-21-2010, 06:28 PM
Jonathan Alexander

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenphoenix

Nope, it's not.
The Monty-Hall-Paradox is based on the fact, that the host knows what's behind the doors and will never open a door with a price.
You don't know what's on top of your deck (and will never know in this case b/c both Time Spiral and D. Returns let you shuffle), and there is no magical helper who peeks the top cards for you, so this example does not apply.

The problem is fundamentally different, which you seem to neglect.

It's not, you can put it however you want. It's even described in the article, look at Other Host Behaviors for reference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilukru

I wont be convinced until someone pull a Matlab sheet to prove his point!!

But seriously, the most significant effect that removing 10 cards can do is if you remove your Tendril, since you are already -1 BW that you used to get DR, hitting your tendril with DR can make winning a lot more difficult, thus the draw from TS is better, but im still conviced that the card as a whole is still worst because of it's cost.

The chance to hit one of your remaining three Burning Wishes or Tendrils Of Agony in your seven is higher than hitting the Tendrils in your ten.
12-21-2010, 06:53 PM
alderon666

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilukru

I wont be convinced until someone pull a Matlab sheet to prove his point!!

But seriously, the most significant effect that removing 10 cards can do is if you remove your Tendril, since you are already -1 BW that you used to get DR, hitting your tendril with DR can make winning a lot more difficult, thus the draw from TS is better, but im still conviced that the card as a whole is still worst because of it's cost.

Quoted for truth.

The removal of cards becomes more problematic as the cards you need become more specific. DReturning with zero mana in your pool will take at least a Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal to win. If you remove 2 or 3 of those in the top 10, your chances of winning fall drastically.
12-21-2010, 06:56 PM
Jonathan Alexander

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

When you cast Diminishing Returns with no mana floating, you can't cast Time Spiral at all.
12-23-2010, 02:32 PM
ninja_attack

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Here's some questions on a side note, how much does timing a brainstorm matter? I know the fundamentals when it comes to some situations like when you need to dig to find 1 piece (accel, protection, or business) at EOT, or when you are actively searching for more pieces with a fetch, but does brainstorm require more thought regarding what turn you plan to go off and how much it will set you back if you have to draw through it?
12-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Bryant Cook

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Why are you brainstorming EOT?
12-23-2010, 03:00 PM
chags

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

I'm not sure that did anything to answer his question Bryant. Read this for info on correct brainstorm use, I highly recommend it:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/19780.html
12-23-2010, 03:05 PM
CorpT

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chags

I'm not sure that did anything to answer his question Bryant. Read this for info on correct brainstorm use, I highly recommend it:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/19780.html

That's not really relevant to TES though. That's for a control deck, not a combo deck. And AJ generally goes too far with his take on it anyway.

Post combat (Xantid Swarm) won me a game I was going to lose last night. If you have the mana, there are lots of good reasons to blow Brainstorms early. Turning a hand of Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Chrome Mox, Land, Land into a hand of Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Chrome Mox, LED, LED for one Blue is a good reason to mainphase Brainstorm.
12-23-2010, 03:10 PM
ninja_attack

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Why are you brainstorming EOT?

Maybe a misunderstanding, but i was referring to brainstorming at the opponents EOT off of their turn 1 (assuming im on the play) Do you main phase brainstorm a lot?
12-23-2010, 03:12 PM
chags

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

The point AJ's article should get across to a storm player is that you don't blow brainstorm just to draw cards. You use it when you know there is a particular card you are missing that you need or you hold it as a form of protection if you know your opponent is playing discard. Mainphase brainstorm is a perfectly fine play a lot of the time with storm, as long as you know what you need.
12-23-2010, 03:39 PM
CorpT

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chags

The point AJ's article should get across to a storm player is that you don't blow brainstorm just to draw cards. You use it when you know there is a particular card you are missing that you need or you hold it as a form of protection if you know your opponent is playing discard. Mainphase brainstorm is a perfectly fine play a lot of the time with storm, as long as you know what you need.

That's not how I read it at all.

"In closing, just remember to be patient with your Brainstorms. Look for spots down the road where you will be able to get more value out of it. "

TES isn't a deck you're usually trying to be patient with. Control decks are patient. TES is the aggro deck most of the time. Every turn you delay comboing, your opponent gets to a better position. They draw more cards. They do more damage making Ad Nasueum worse. Etc...

I Brainstorm pretty aggressively. The longer the game goes, the worse things generally get. If that means a main phase Brainstorm, then so be it. If I want something, it's usually mana and the deck has plenty of that so I'll hopefully get some.
12-23-2010, 03:57 PM
median

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja_attack

Maybe a misunderstanding, but i was referring to brainstorming at the opponents EOT off of their turn 1 (assuming im on the play) Do you main phase brainstorm a lot?

I believe Bryant was commenting on the situation, but there are a lot of good articles on casting brainstorm (in general) and it is a key play in this deck, they might be worth a look.
12-23-2010, 04:01 PM
Bryant Cook

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chags

I'm not sure that did anything to answer his question Bryant. Read this for info on correct brainstorm use, I highly recommend it:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/19780.html

I wasn’t trying to answer the question, I was trying to figure out why he was playing my deck incorrectly. I created and have been playing this deck for about six years, I think I know how to use Brainstorm. But thanks for the link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja_attack

Maybe a misunderstanding, but i was referring to brainstorming at the opponents EOT off of their turn 1 (assuming im on the play) Do you main phase brainstorm a lot?

I end step brainstorm maybe once out of every ten times I cast the card, if that. It’s very rare that Brainstorming on their turn is the correct play.

You have to keep in the back of your mind the longer that you’re letting them live, the lower your chances of winning are. If you can at any point in time brainstorm into the win, why not try? I may hold a Brainstorm until turn 2, so I can have the nice synergy with a fetch land, but that’s about it.

A few exceptions are…

• If they’re playing discard.
• You have Chant/Pyroblast (Something you need to do on their turn)
12-23-2010, 04:13 PM
frogboy

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja_attack

Maybe a misunderstanding, but i was referring to brainstorming at the opponents EOT off of their turn 1 (assuming im on the play) Do you main phase brainstorm a lot?

Much more often than I end step it, actually. Are you trying to represent Counterspell or something?
12-23-2010, 04:52 PM
ninja_attack

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogboy

Much more often than I end step it, actually. Are you trying to represent Counterspell or something?

Not really, but my situation:
(play) me: land, pass
opponent: land, pass (at his/hers end step) brainstorm...

is this wrong? or should i have just cast brainstorm on my first turn.

P.s. I have played this deck on and off for a while back in the plunge into darkness days, I just want to become a better storm pilot because I love the deck, and winning is fun.
12-23-2010, 04:57 PM
Rico Suave

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I end step brainstorm maybe once out of every ten times I cast the card, if that. It’s very rare that Brainstorming on their turn is the correct play.

For what it's worth, setting this guideline is just as misguided as always casting Brainstorm at EOT.
12-23-2010, 05:15 PM
lorddotm

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Bryant, is there a reason that you play 2 Echoing Truth over 1 Chain of Vapour and 1 Echoing Truth?

Now that Counterbalance should be coming back, do you think going back to more Pyroblasts and a Krosan Grip would be the right call?

The only thing stopping me is that Merfolk is so easy when you run Xantid, and a little bit of a toss up when you don't.
So the real question I guess is if Xantid is relevant enough against Countertop to warrant running it over Pyroblasts and Korsan Grips.
12-23-2010, 05:21 PM
Tammit67

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jona

It's not, you can put it however you want. It's even described in the article, look at Other Host Behaviors for reference.

It is fundementally different, This is not a two stage event. This is a one stage event. Card X has the same probablilty of being the 1st as it does being the 30th. Even if you removed the top ten then waited 30 minutes, the individual cards are all still equally likely in any position.

Might as well brainstorm in your main if you aren't really in it for the long hall. Going EoT brainstorm -> fetch -> ponder sounds good though.
12-23-2010, 05:38 PM
Jonathan Alexander

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tammit67

It is fundementally different, This is not a two stage event. This is a one stage event. Card X has the same probablilty of being the 1st as it does being the 30th. Even if you removed the top ten then waited 30 minutes, the individual cards are all still equally likely in any position.

I might've actually screwed up something, if I did, sorry for that. But I asked several of my teachers about that and they agreed with me. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough, though. Anyway, Diminishing Returns is still better because of its mana cost. The data is in the opening post, and I think having an 18% shot at winning without floating mana is still better than not being able to do anything at all. With one mana floating it's around 40% and this is clearly much better than still not being able to do anything. When you have shitloads of mana (and landdrops, that is) it's likely that you can do something else to win anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tammit67

Might as well brainstorm in your main if you aren't really in it for the long hall. Going EoT brainstorm -> fetch -> ponder sounds good though.

You can also do that when you cast Brainstorm in your mainphase.

And about Echoing Truth. I can only speak for myself, but I'm running two copies of Echoing Truth instead of a split simply because it's better against Chalice Of The Void and multiple hatepieces in general.
12-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Bryant Cook

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Suave

For what it's worth, setting this guideline is just as misguided as always casting Brainstorm at EOT.

It's not misguided. It's the truth, I rarely cast EOT brainstorm. It's hardly ever the right play to cast it end step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorddotm

Bryant, is there a reason that you play 2 Echoing Truth over 1 Chain of Vapour and 1 Echoing Truth?

Now that Counterbalance should be coming back, do you think going back to more Pyroblasts and a Krosan Grip would be the right call?

The only thing stopping me is that Merfolk is so easy when you run Xantid, and a little bit of a toss up when you don't.
So the real question I guess is if Xantid is relevant enough against Countertop to warrant running it over Pyroblasts and Korsan Grips.

Chain of Vapor gets shut off by Chalice at one? It doesn't bounce multiple permanents? I own two Japanese Foil Echoing Truth?

I haven't reconfigured my sideboard, but it's looking like my Xantids are probably going to be cut. Adding Grip, a Pyroblast, and one other card.
12-23-2010, 06:23 PM
chags

Re: [DTW] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I wasn’t trying to answer the question, I was trying to figure out why he was playing my deck incorrectly. I created and have been playing this deck for about six years, I think I know how to use Brainstorm. But thanks for the link.

Hey dude how's your epeen doing? I know who you are and how long you played the deck, the link was not for you it was for the guy who asked the question about brainstorm...see I was trying to be constructive, isn't that how forums work?

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