@S1N1STER
what was your list exactly? Where did you fit the Karakas is what I am most interested in.
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@S1N1STER
what was your list exactly? Where did you fit the Karakas is what I am most interested in.
No serious discussion about burning wish.
No serious discussion about reducing combo pieces with more cantrips to be more consistent.
We are back to "what is your list".
*frustration*
Why Burning Wish again? It only fetches Show & Tell (unless there's some other sorcery that fetches Sneak Attack?) out of our 4 possible combo pieces and it's not like we play hand disruption for protection?
Not to mention it's slow...
I don't see why it's better than Intuition, which gets us whatever we want at instant speed and is blue?
Regarding Overmaster: I think it's going to be better for the Omniscience Show & Tell decks than it will be for Sneaky Show since the Omniscience decks are all-in on the Show & Tell win to begin with. Since they run Burning Wish as well, they can also run it in the board if necessary.
Well it could fetch Overmaster and some hate in the form of bounce or artifact/land destruction, mass removal against a hate bear or in desperation. Having 7-8 virtual show&tell feels very strong versus discard.
It cant be compared to intuition because having 3 in the maindeck or 1of in the sideboard is a big difference. I would not just swap it for intuition.
I got the idea in my attempts to go down on "clunky" combo pieces. The arguments of beeing slow and limiting the sideboard space is kind of important though.
Burning wish costs 2, which is huge because you don't have to drop a double land to play Intuition. Burning wish can fetch silver bullets to help in bad situations such as Pyroclasm against Mav or Overmaster against Blue.
Generally the deck is really hard to hate though and doesn't fold to any specific hate. That's what I like about SNT/Sneak, most hate only affects 1 of the combo pieces. What do you really really need to kill? It's not like TES where Thalia/Teeq= GG.
Sure, Burning Wish has the potential to be good, but what are you going to cut for it?
Most of the decklists are pretty tight on space as is. I just don't think cutting protection or cantrips for something that tutors for only 1 card out of our combo is worth it.
Intuition is more powerful in our deck because it's virtually an instant speed Demonic Tutor.
Anyway, sinister, how was the Proggy over the 4th Griselbrand? And why Replace Grisel over Emrakul? I also feel 8 Monsters is quite alot since they don't pitch to Force anymore. Did that 1 Blue Monster help, or did you keep wishing it was a Griselbrand? I've realised that I've been sending monsters back to the library with Brainstorm the most, compared to any other card. Because multiple monsters really don't do anything, I think going down to 7, but playing 2 Intuitions should be ok.
I ended up taking out a lotus petal and an intuition for the two MD Karakas. The list I ended up playing was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosedog
4x Brainstorm
3x spell pierce
1x Flusterstorm
4x Sneak attack
4x Emrakul
4x Ponder
4x FoW
4x Show and Tell
4x Griselbrand
3x Lotus Petal
2x Misdirection
2x Intuition
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty rainforest
1x Polluted delta
1x Flooded strand
3x Ancient tomb
2x City of traitors
2x Island
1x Mountain
3x Volcanic Island
2x Karakas
There was one game vs. affinity where had a Karakas on the board with a sneak attack and Emrakul in hand but only one red source, maybe if that Karakas had been a 4th lotus petal I would have won that one, but I still ended up winning the match with a T2 Emrakul in game 3.
Have been testing the following list:
Main:
Land [23]
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Lotus Petal
Creatures [8]
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Cantrips [11]
2 Intuition
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
Counters [10]
3 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
Enablers [8]
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
Sideboard:
3 Cursed Totem
2 Through the Breach
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroblast
2 Firespout
Board Plans:
Maverick:
- 3 Spell Pierce
- 3 Misdirection
- 2 Intuition
- 2 Show and Tell
+ 3 Cursed Totem
+ 2 Firespout
+ 2 Echoing Truth
+ 2 Through the Breech
I feel with this set up I am playing control. I understand that that Cursed Totem hits Griselbrand, but the 7/7 flying lifelink will get the job done.
RUG:
- 2 Intuition
- 1 Misdirection
+ 3 Pyroblast
You have access to 13 counters including Pyroblast. Pyroblast also hits Gilded Drake and Delver of Secrets.
Stoneblade/Miracles
- 2 Intuition
- 1 Preordain
- 3 Misdirection
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Echoing Truth
Not sure if this plan is optimal.
Any comments or questions feel free to evaluate.
My comments to your SB plan.
Cursed Totem is strong versus maverick, but they can still draw their Karakas. I prefer Pithing needle, which has also a lot of utility in other matchups (SD.top, Liliana, Belcher,...) where cursed totem is useless.
I guess the plan with firespout is to get some time, however with a Thalia out the spell costs 4, which makes it bad. No utility in other matchups except for elves I guess.
Echoing Truth is also narrow. Only good: EOT Thalia to go off.
IMO Best SB plan in a Maverick heavy meta is 4 Pithing Needle.
Vs. RUG:
Red-blast is of course very strong. The problem that I see is that you need a lot of mana to play the combo & cast the protection in the same turn, which can be challenging vs. their mana denial plan and plays into their daze. Therefore I like the tech's of preventively drawing out their counterspell without risking your combo. Best options I know so far: Overmaster & Defense Grid.
@catmint
Looking over my post I can see your points. Any suggestions for a side list?
For your maindeck in an unknown meta I would probably try something like this:
3 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
3 Defense Grid
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Through the Breach
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Overmaster
Tested the deck over the weekend against RUG, Reanimator and the usual suspects. Overmaster was a boss, especially after board. The points have been argued but I'm keeping my Overmasters in the main as a 3 off.
Also, I think 2 Through the Breach should be in every SB. Reanimator and the Mirror may not be that common but I've found TtB very important. Pithing needle from Reanimator absolutely destroys this deck. REBs can't hit them and usually we don't bring in bounce against Reanimator.
I actually think some bounce vs Reanimator is probably correct since we have absolutely no outs to Blazing Archon otherwise.
I've been really diggin' the 3 Overmaster main too. Always bring bounce in vs Reanimator, Through the Breach saves games sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Good discussion going! Trying to make side more geared towards an open.meta with a huge amount of Maverick and RUG.
3 Pithing Needle
3 Defense Grid
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Through the Breach
3 Overmaster
Why not play 3 Karakas in the side instead of Needle if you're using it just for the Maverick matchup anyways?Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
Also like Relic as yard hate for us since we don't care about the yard anyways.
Been playing this archetype for a year now or so and you have had the same discussion about sideboard (excluding Overmaster) the entire time.
On the other hand I made a change recently that made my deck explode.
- 1 Emrakul (now 3)
- 1 Volcanic Island (now 2)
- 1 Misdirection (now 2)
- 2 Intuition
+ 3 Preordain
+ 2 Simian Spirit Guide
The deck is so much faster now. I really recommend going down in lands and adding Simian. I played against RUG yesterday where Daze and Pierce usually is a problem to resolve your spell. He walked into Simian Spirit Guide with his Daze and that was the match.
Over to your boring sideboard discussion again.
How many lands are you running? Your hubris is confusing when your pluses and minuses are "useLess" without a list to reference. I'm assuming you went from 19 to 18? It's not surprising that you had to add more cantrips to find your permanent mana sources. I'm sure the 2 SSGs help, but I've found that this deck has a lot of trouble with 18 lands. It's kind of like when you cut lands in Spiral Tide: yeah, you can make it work because you have so many cantrips, but then you just end up using them to find land instead of business spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
Your implication is that 2x SSG will shore up the RUG match? That doesn't seem likely. I agree that they won't see it coming, but against RUG (particularly the versions running Stifle) I often have trouble getting enough mana to cast spells, period--let alone play through soft counters. I don't see how -1 Volcanic and +2 SSG is going to change that drastically.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL