I'm reposting this, since no one's really answered my question yet, and just to bump this thread back to the first page, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
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I'm reposting this, since no one's really answered my question yet, and just to bump this thread back to the first page, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
i'd say run white fetch, and name polluted/flooded with pithing, but that's my opinion :p
i play a split of 3/3 bloodstained / windswepth myself, and it is really stable.
I've been testing a variant of deadguy that has taken a lot of inspiration from eva green. (The sideboard is identical to the list in the first post on eva green.) This gives a really good matchup against various blue control decks such as landstill, and also a further improvement on goblins and other small-critter agro.
CREATURES (14)
3 Tombstalker
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
SORCERIES (15)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Vindicate
INSTANTS (3)
3 Swords to Plowshares
ARTIFACTS (6)
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (22)
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
3 Scrubland
SIDEBOARD
4 Choke
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
I would love to hear som thoughts and comments on this list.
you know, that list looks very good.
i dont have to say many things about it, only,
dont you miss the 4th stp and vindicate? because its still deadguy and slower than eva green. but the only space for one extra stp is -1 explosives +1 stp.
i think i'm gonna test that list too, i will put up results if i tested it more.
I do miss the last swords to plowshares sometimes, yes.
However, when i first made this eva green/deadguy hybrid, the explosives were still 3 snuff outs, so back then i didn't have any problems with first turn lackey, or whatever it could be that scares you the most. Snuff outs gave me to much pain though. That's when I saw other deadguy builds playing explosives and i loved them.
The 3 vindicates are just enough though. Together with explosives, we can destroy pretty much anything we want on the board, and 3 is a sufficient number to complement the land destruction, if the game should take that route.
Also, we have 3 tops and 8 fetch to search for the removal we need at a given time.
I don't really like it. Where is the accel? And especially when playing 4 Sinkhole(very slow cards in themselves), I suspect while on the draw you're going to get outsped by your opponents alot. I've tried a similar build, though, and I must say I don't like the manabase of any 3 color Deadguy decks(and that was even back when I ran 4 Mox Diamond as a multi-color fixer). Also, only 22 Mana? Is that even enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik
"I don't really like it. Where is the accel? And especially when playing 4 Sinkhole(very slow cards in themselves), I suspect while on the draw you're going to get outsped by your opponents alot. I've tried a similar build, though, and I must say I don't like the manabase of any 3 color Deadguy decks(and that was even back when I ran 4 Mox Diamond as a multi-color fixer). Also, only 22 Mana? Is that even enough?"
/Hummingbird
Acceleration (ritual) was what i had to sacrifice to be able to fit all the goodies in there. It's ok really, explosives makes it possible to 2 for 1 your opponent later in the game.
As for the manabase, sure I get screwed sometimes, but for how long? with two lands, you should always have BB, and either white, green or both, and of course you let the rest of your hand decide what you fetch for. It is a valid point though, if you don't like the risk that three colors bring, don't run it. I like it.
Lastly, about the sinkholes without ritual. I ALWAYS board out sinkholes if I am on the draw second or third game, whether I play suicide, deadguy, ritual or no. And if I am on the play, I don't need the rituals for sinkhole.
From the Eva White thread, here is my Eva White list...
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
3 Snuff Out
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Bitterblossom
4 Hypnotic Spectar
4 Tombstalker
Yes I know it's a lot more aggressive than most builds here, but you guys really ought to give it a spin.
Confidants don't interact well with Tombstalker, Snuff Out and Bitterblossom, and the latter cards are very worth running IMO.
I've recently replaced Ashenmoor Gouger/Negator with Bitterblossom and I find it a great substitute for Tarmogoyf.
You can pump out 3-4 or so 1/1 flyers to beat them over the head with.
And then every 1/1 you create after that can be used to chump block Tarmogoyf until they die.
The fact that Goyf can be chumped so easily by a 1/1 is awesome.
I'm now considering playing 2 Contamination MD. I think it deserves SB slots atleast maybe.
okay, m testing the deck again and i've some cool new things in my list:
4xdark confidant
4xshade
2xstalker
2xbitterblossom
3xexplosives
3xtop
4xritual
4xstp
4xthoughtseize
4xhymn to tourach
4xvindicate
4xwasteland
4xscrubland
3xdelta
3xmire
7xswamp
1xgodless shrine
the list looks a bit different, i've added the 4th shade because i had one open slot and i wanted it to be a creature. 3th stalker could be problematic with confidant because i also putted blossom in it. 3th blossom was too much too because when you see it once its good enough. thats why i added the 4th shade, and i really like it becasue shade is really scary in this deck.
i added blossom as my new change and it really rocks, i tested it a few games now and the games i drawed blossom, i won because it. muc is not so scary anymore as it was(shackles:mad: ) and it rocks not only against control but it can be good vs aggro-control too(block there goyfs+gooses for a long time)
the rest is clear i think only, no sinkholes anymore becasue i couldtn find space anymore for it.
what do you people think of the list?
How are you handling the life loss from 4 Confidant, 6 fetches, 1 Vampland, 4 Thoughtseize, and 2 Bitterblossom? It seems like waaaaaaaaaaaay too much to be safe, for me. While your Bitterblossom tokens can block my Mongoose and Tarmogoyf, it looks like all I need to do is keep attacking into them and you'll kill yourself sooner rather than later.
yes, i know there is many life loss but most of the time i only have one confidant, and bitterblossom only at the moment i need it(so i dont lose many lifes from it). fetch is not a problem too because, i dont fetch that much 2-3 times or something in a game. only seize is sometimes too much, but most of the time i only cast seize 2 times or something.
and i have top for confidant too.
about bitterblossom, its not that i only blocks goyf and gooses, thats where i have explosives, vindicate and stp's for too. only on times there is no other change(and i think -1 from blossom is better then -4 from goyf)
So...It's slightly different, but I don't really think it's an improvement. Bitterblossom is good, but I agree that the life loss in this deck is somewhat excessive. Seriously, do you really need that godless shrine in there? I don't think so--Just run a 7th fetch instead if you're worried about color. It's one less life and can get you a basic if you really need it. I really don't like Confidant + stalker too, but hopefully it's not going to kill you...
Also, if you take out sinkhole you lose one of the strengths of the deck to win some games just by sheer mana denial. When you take out the strongest LD in the deck, then you might as well just not run wasteland either and find something else for those slots. Wasteland gives you mana for almost nothing in the deck.
I don't think 3 explosives are worth it main deck. Because you'll probably end up killing your things just as much. Shade, confidant, blossom are all 2cc cards, and it doesn't really help your tempo to destroy your things as well as your opponent's (tarmogoyf). Maybe sideboard, or take a few out, but it just seems unnecessary to me =/ I mean, you already have 4 Stp and 4 Vindicate.
hmmm, okay, you people probably speak the truth about the deck.
i played this deck a long time but thats a really long time ago, i only wanted to improve it because it cant really compete with the meta anymore i think.
maybe i'll just stick on my old list again:
3/4xhippie
4xconfidant
3xshade
3xgrunt
4xstp
4xritual
4xseize
4xhymn
4xsinkhole
4xvindicate
0-2xtop/exlosives(if you want to cut one hippie, then i would play on of these 2 times. then youre at 21 land what can be still enough)
4xscrubland
4xmire
4xwasteland
1xtomb of urami
1xgodless shrine(because i really wanted to see the '5th scrubland' many times)
7/8xswamp
0-1xvolrath's stronghold
i think thats still a strong list but probably not good enough to beat thresh(maybe with explosives)
i wanted to play on a tourney again with this deck because its one of my first decks i made and it seemed fun to me to play on a tourney with it again.
tips for this list then?
I don't know, I just put this list together quickly to sort of match your build:
// Lands
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 [7E] Swamp (3)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [REW] Wasteland
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
4 [B] Scrubland
// Creatures
3 [TO] Nantuko Shade
3 [4E] Hypnotic Specter
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
// Spells
3 [U] Sinkhole
3 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [IA] Dark Ritual
Hmm, I really wanted to fit Jitte in here, and I think it's okay with 1 stronghold and 12 other creatures. However, I had to cut something for that, and I decided for 1 sinkhole (because LD is not always useful, though this weakens the mana denial plan) and 1 Stp (Since Jitte can be removal, and the lifegain can actually be hard sometimes with low threat number. Also doesn't go with grunt the best). I still think Top is very important in here to smooth out draws with bob and make sure you're always getting the most relevant cards. I also think Urborg is useful so that you don't have to crack fetches for land, and can use wastelands/stronghold for relevant mana. I don't think we can afford the -1 life for Urami, and destroying all of our lands is not useful with nantuko shade at all. In fact, I don't really like him in here because of the 17 relevant lands, but he's still pretty good. Makes dark ritual not quite a "dead" draw late game.
EDIT: You know, Jitte might be a bad idea in here, though I just don't know because I haven't tested it. I've always liked to try to fit it in these type of decks though.
I won a tournament with my homemade deck (a couple of posts up) this very day. Among the meta was aggro loam, lot of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, cephalid breakfast, rock and quite a lot of UWx control. It was really nothing big, a local tournament with <15 players, but the fact that I won gave me more stimulation to try to make this archetype work. My opinion is that you absolutely should play three colors. What's the point of playing control suicide if your oppnonent have the biggest creature anyways. Also, tombstalker with confidant is really not an issue. just be happy you draw a stalker, it will probably win for you anyways...
I believe if players want to make Deadguy into a viable deck once more, then I would suggest adding in 4 Bitterblossom into the main deck. Do you know how awesome this card would be in a control deck like Deadguy Ale.
I think Bitterblossom is what it needs to put it over the top in my opinion. Please test it out at least and get back to me on the results and if you really like the addition to the deck.
I agree with Bitterblossom being the nuts. There's a reason why it's so darn expensive. A start of Dark Ritual into Thoughtseize and Bitterblossom puts on so much pressure, especially against aggro-control.
okay, now i'm a bit confused, the one says blossom dot belongs int this deck and the one say it belongs in it. so now i tested again some games with 4!blossoms in it and i must say, its awesome.
here's my list:
4xconfidant
3xstalker
4xblossom
3xtop
4xthoughtseize
4xhymn
4xsinkhole
4xvindicate
4xritual
4xstp
4xwasteland
4xscrubland
4xbloodstained mire
8xswamp
1xvolrath's stronhold(because i already run not that much creatures, if one dies i can get it back)
1xurborg, tomb of yawg(a bit random, but can solve some mana problems sometimes)
side:
depens on your meta.
i think i'm gonna play on a tourney soon witht this list.
the life loss is maybe sometimes a bit high, but a good deadguy player can play around it i think(i didnt had much trouble with it)
i putted in land descturciotn again, because thats still the strongest factor of the deck, having 4 sinks, 4 waste and 4 vindicates to nuke manabases. and when you are lucky to get a turn one blossom, the land desctuction is totally nuts.
the only thing i'm not sure about is 3 stalker, i really like it, but its dangerous with bob. maybe cut it and add a 4th top, because in this deck you really want to draw a top.
my other question, i really like to fit 2 explosives in the main but i dont see space for it, should i add it and cut something important(the first card i would cut is one stalker then)
1 godless shrine is useful so that you can have white mana after an extirpate on scrubland
Here's the deck I've been testing extensively on MWS and building to play:
4 Scrubland
6 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Dark Confidant
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Vindicate
4 Sinkhole
3 Smallpox
SB:
4x Extirpate
3x Dystopia
3x E.Plague
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Pithing Needle
I have to ask... why did people ever stop playing with Smallpox? This card is so amazing. Perhaps if I sift through the thread carefully I will find an answer, but any insight would be most helpful. Smallpox has been completely unfair in almost every matchup, and brutalizes Thresh so throroughly I would play it for this reason alone. Smallpox allows me to crush otherwise powerful aggro openers, particularly those involving the oh-so-feared Mongeese. 3 does feel like the right number, given that I only play 22 land and this is not a dedicated Pox deck. Still, I would not consider cutting this card.
I would call the Thresh matchup with this deck about 55/45 across the board, with UGR being slightly easier than UGW or UGB.
Needless to say with 6 one mana discard this version also devastates almost any combo. Smallpox also helps here, handily shutting down turn 2 wins by putting them down a land and a card in hand.
The major problem I am having is with landstill. How do I beat this deck?? 4 and 5 color versions are slightly easier because my massive LD + extirpate can shut them out of colors, but I have not found UW or UWB to be favorable at all.
Landstill always seems to have more answers than I have threats, and enough viable win conditions that I can't extirpate/needle them all. Should I be playing more needles or something else entirely?
Honestly Landstill seems about 40/60 right now, if not worse. Maybe I am just playing this matchup wrong? Any advice is great.