Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Did pretty well at GP NJ Legacy side events. Played in 5 of the 4-round events.
Decklist:
4 DRS
4 Strix
2 Leo
3 Griffin
1 Scourge
4 Ballista
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Manipulate Fate
4 FoW
3 Decay
2 Thoughtseize
4 Food Chain
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Verdant
4 Misty
2 Delta
2 Sea
2 Trop
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
SB
3 Surgical
2 Fluster
2 Engineered Plague
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Fatal Push
1 Duress
1 Clique
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Eng Explosives
Event 1: 3-1
2-1 vs ANT
1-2 vs Belcher: G1 he quickly combos; G2 I keep 2 FoW, 2 U cards and win; G3 I keep a marginal 7 for FoW and lose
2-1 vs Miracles
2-1 vs BUG Control
Event 2: 2-1
2-1 vs Soldier Stompy: Most of their guys have >1 toughness, so needed to double up on Plague/LtLH/Ballista to shoot them down. They've also got Suppression Field main.
1-2 vs Eldrazi
2-0 vs Nic Fit (with walkers)
ID
Event 3: 3-1 ish
2-0 vs Grixis Delver
2-0 vs Moon Stompy: G2 he mulls to 4 and I win easily
1-2 vs ANT
ID vs D+T: we play for fun and I win 2-0; G2 I put down 2x Plague on Human for an active Mirran Crusader and end up stranding 2 Ethersworn Canonist in his hand
Event 4: 2-0-1
2-0 vs Miracles
1-1-1 vs Esper Deathblade: G3 he gets an active JTMS but I'm able to keep up with his card advantage barely with Griffins/MF and we go to time
2-1 vs Infect: lose G1 quickly, G2 and G3 I get Plague out on Blinkmoth, then keep his other creatures at bay with Ballista/EE
ID
Event 5: 1-3
2-1 vs BUG Delver
0-2 vs Miracles: G1 he rips Terminus off the top for my early pressure, then Miracles Entreat for 2 angels and I can't find a flyer; G2 I Decay a Search for Azcanta and he lands Mentor to make a ton of tokens which I lose to
0-2 vs ANT: G2 he combos off with Leo on my side of the field, he keeps a Petal in play and is able to get Fluster in his yard with flashback from PiF in case I run Mindbreak Trap
0-2 vs BG Rock: G1 I put him on Turbo Depths because he goes Discard, Discard, Marit Lage and I can't get a flyer out; G2 I'd boarded out my removal so I lose to DRS, Ramunap Excavator, Goyf
Final record of 11-6-1 not counting IDs. Deck felt great overall.
- LtLH and Garruk Relentless were either complete champs or must counters against the grindy decks. Never lived the dream of Garruk fighting, then -1 to search up missing combo piece.
- Throughout the day, I felt I wanted something to combat Gurmag Angler and Tombstalker. Only things I really had were Strixes to block (which could be removed) or Diabolic Edict (if they had no other creatures). Maybe a Dismember over a Push in SB.
- JTMS out of Miracles wasn't that scary. Kept up against multiple Jace activations with Griffin/Scourge/MF. Their deck interacts pretty poorly with Griffins/Scourge. Save MF to get your guys back after Terminus. Wonder if we can ignore Search for Azcanta in a similar way.
- JTMS out of Deathblade was a lot scarier, they're actually drawing cards that matter.
- Boarded out the combo in most fair match ups. Not sure if it's correct, but it felt great not drawing dead FC with them playing around it the whole time. If I wasn't sure that MF was going to land, I would lean toward boarding FC out as it blows to get stuck with multiple in hand when you need to draw gas.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ORDAL
I will make a little report, and make another top8 in november in another tournament with 100+ players but there isnt in tc decks righe now.
And i make top8 in Nebraska war 5 side event saturday (117 players) with another deck becuase my food chain was at home, i drop main event modern and my friend rest the deck
Still waiting for your report and impressions on card choices!
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
I've been playing around with a bant-colored version and I think it's worth a bit of discussion. I wouldn't argue that it's better than the typical BUG versions in most cases, but opting for white over black can make a lot of sense in some metas (lots of DRS, delve, etc). This is particularly true if you expect the main form of fast combo to be reanimator. This deck came from a "What happens to food chain if DRS is banned?" discussion with a friend, but I think it's worth considering regardless as a meta-specific choice.
Maindeck rest in peace is relevant on its own in a DRS/Delve-heavy meta, and serves as a combo piece with griffins in addition to the energy shield/helm combo. The RIP+energy field lock can win a lot of games, as many decks (e.g. grixis delver) can't deal with it mainboard. Having access to swords is always nice, as well. Losing access to discard and abrupt decay hurts badly, however. The bant version plays as a significantly different deck, in my experience, and many matchups seem flipped compared to the typical BUG lists. (e.g. Burn and Reanimator are almost a bye, while Aluren and BUG food chain are some of the worst matchups. Grixis delver is a bit better, but the matchup plays out completely differently - lots of focus on RIP/Energy field to stall.)
At any rate, here's the list I ran yesterday. I wound up in first at my local weekly (only 12-ish people this time - take it with a grain of salt). This list is still a bit janky, but the bant shell works. The singleton trinket mage is mostly there to keep blue count up.
Maindeck:
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Manipulate Fate
3x Ponder
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Food Chain
3x Rest in Peace
2x Energy Field
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Pithing Needle
1x Eternal Scourge
2x Walking Ballista
1x Trinket Mage
3x Misthollow Griffin
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Windswept Heath
3x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
2x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
1x Savannah
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
2x Island
SB
2x Flusterstorm
1x Greater Auramancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Council's Judgement
2x Meddling Mage
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Swords to Plowshares
Notes from yesterday's games:
2-1 vs Shardless BUG - Didn't expect to see shardless played. Abrupt decay heavy decks can be a rough matchup. I got there by forcing them to repeatedly decay energy field and RIPs until I was able to resolve a food chain and keep it in play.
2-0 vs Burn - Energy field and Leylines from the board make burn a hard matchup to lose.
0-2 vs Death & Taxes - These were tight games. I had a lethal combo stranded in my hand twice due to the Thalia tax and missing a couple key land drops. They were careful to swords my hierarchs at critical moments. I assembled the RIP+Energy field lock in each game, but they found a flickerwisp before I could get there. I always forget how brutal mirran crusader with equipment can be.
2-1 vs Eldrazi - Lost the first game to two early endbringers. The second and third games I was able to force a turn one chalice pitching griffin each time. I got lucky on one of the games when they wound up flooded with lands after I had mulliganed to 5 to find FOW.
Overall, it's worth thinking about a bant shell for food chain as a meta-specific option. The typical BUG builds are better in a blind meta, but I've been impressed that a bant shell works at all, considering what all is crammed in the decklist above. It's a viable alternative that can attack from a different angle.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jofer
"What happens to food chain if DRS is banned?" discussion with a friend
Nice argument. My friend make to me that question and i already know my first try: relic+noble main deck.
I also try withe splash on mtgo on my bug list, but only something like leejay's shardless list.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
meffeo
Still waiting for your report and impressions on card choices!
Nebraska war report coming soon, im bad to write in english so i need support of my friends:laugh:, btw tc decks and all site report the result of swiss and not final result. we split top8 and the some player play for the title, and i won
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ORDAL
Nebraska war report coming soon, im bad to write in english so i need support of my friends:laugh:, btw tc decks and all site report the result of swiss and not final result. we split top8 and the some player play for the title, and i won
and if you also write your side/in and side/out in your report, I think they will offer you many drinks here... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
So this will be fun to play around with:
https://i.redd.it/bpreyrbvaq701.jpg
Works great if you have a Leovold in play, otherwise, target yourself, exile some griffins and dead cards and exchange them for new cards. If nothing else, it will be an interesting one or two-of to help out otherwise clunky hands with two griffins. May not be worth what you have to cut for it, though. Probably worth cutting a ponder for one if you were fitting a full four ponders, but I'm not sure it makes as much sense in most lists where that's already been cut for something else.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jofer
So this will be fun to play around with:
https://i.redd.it/bpreyrbvaq701.jpg
Works great if you have a Leovold in play, otherwise, target yourself, exile some griffins and dead cards and exchange them for new cards. If nothing else, it will be an interesting one or two-of to help out otherwise clunky hands with two griffins. May not be worth what you have to cut for it, though. Probably worth cutting a ponder for one if you were fitting a full four ponders, but I'm not sure it makes as much sense in most lists where that's already been cut for something else.
Unfortunately cards that are exiled face down don't have any characteristics, meaning that you can't cast a face down Griffin from exile if it's face down.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
deaded
Unfortunately cards that are exiled face down don't have any characteristics, meaning that you can't cast a face down Griffin from exile if it's face down.
Ah! I missed that part entirely. Thanks! Sadly, it won't be that useful for exile shenanigans, then.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
On-camera match of Food Chain vs. Czech Pile at the recent MKM Frankfurt event:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216367466
Food Chain seems to be showing up less frequently recently, what's happened?
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dull
On-camera match of Food Chain vs. Czech Pile at the recent MKM Frankfurt event:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216367466
Food Chain seems to be showing up less frequently recently, what's happened?
Dalibor Szegho and Andre Pirschel were also on Food Chain in the Mainevent and I saw them at the top tables till the end but they failed to manage top 8...I think they went 8:2/7:3 at the end...Still a good performance...Czech Pile is normally a good MU and Tomas Mar is a pile god who knows exactly what he´s doing, wouldnt overrate it...
Lots of good finishes of the deck arent posted on mtgtop8 or similar pages...The deck has a good stand in the current meta and here in Germany we have a rise of the new Miracles deck which is very good for Food Chain...
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Not sure anything happened. It shows up here n there. I kind of lost interest in the deck, myself - partly for the same reason the food chain player on camera lost: it's clunky - but mostly cause i wanted variation and playing other decks.
I will surely return as the deck is superfun and awesome.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
The decline of miracles really sped up the format, so resolving 3 and 4 mana spells got a lot harder due to more dazes running around.
DRS being the best card in the format has also lead to a lot more cheap spot removal, making ours less likely to survive. As a deck with costly cards, our DRS being more likely to die hurts us a lot more.
The meta shifts really slowly so these changes weren't immediately obvious at tournaments.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JackaBo
I'm thinking about going back to the roots and play a delve-guy.
I recently removed a Fatal Push for Murderous Cut, what with all these Anglers swimming around, and it's put in work every time I've drawn it. I could see why you'd want a big creature, though. Let us know how it goes!
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Speeding up doesn't just only mean the game is over quickly. It means that threats are deployed more quickly and spells are more efficient. The decline of miracles has seen a resurgence of 1-to-1 spells, making mana efficiency paramount in these types of control mirrors. We were good against Miracles because our threats lined up well against their answers, and we had good inevitability.
We are bad against Czech pile because a good pilot will drown us in mana efficiency and unless we draw very lucky we can't keep up. Our best grind spell is Manip Fate, but that gets 4 mana 3/3 fliers that die to Push and Bolt, both cards types of cards that were not common in Miracle days.
Think about the control decks we faced before. Shardless and Miracles. Shardless had zero answers to griffin except liliana sacrifice. They were good b/c they dodged Abrupt Decay which was everywhere. Miracles couldn't plow them, only terminus or counter.
Honestly I think we need to dramatically change our gameplan to be more efficient and disruptive. Perhaps shaving numbers off of previously sacred combo cards.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Maybe playing more Eternal Scourge? They're cheaper than Griffin and somewhat resistant to Bolt/Push. It's still quite a tempo loss if they get hit by 1 mana removal, but not as much as Griffin.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Kaono, i agree with a lot if what you are saying and whole-heartedly on that we need to become more agile. Got any ideas on different configuration? Running push instead of decay and cut the 3rd griffin is a given. But what more?
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JackaBo
Kaono, i agree with a lot if what you are saying and whole-heartedly on that we need to become more agile. Got any ideas on different configuration? Running push instead of decay and cut the 3rd griffin is a given. But what more?
Of course deck space is tight, so it'll be challenging to find a new configuration. But I wonder if borrowing from the Noble Duke playbook and running some number of Hierarchs/BoPs could help. Both decks play more than the usual number of 3- and 4-drops, so that's the closest analogue I can see. Instead of TNNs and Jaces we run Food Chains and Griffins.
... ? No clue.
EDIT: A proposed starting point for this shell
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Baleful Strix
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Scourge
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Tombstalker
1 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Force of Will
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
The Hierarch/BoP split is almost certainly not right, but since I want to play Tombstalker both to get back dead Griffins and to just be a flying idiot in fair matchups, I want to test if needing the extra dorks to tap for :b: is relevant. Since Relic can replace itself, I think 2 Ponders + 1 Relic and 3 more dorks might be enough to support 18 lands. The removal suite/4th Strix/4th combo piece vs. 3rd Griffin ... personal taste, I'd say.
Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo
We used to play BoP in the old lists so that's not a bad place to re-explore. I do like cutting ballistas and am also testing 2 + 1 trinket mage. Maindeck relic helps a lot since our DRS seem to die instantly. I'm also down to 2 griffin 1 scourge and only 2 manip fate -- this slows our combo down dramatically so I tried to make the rest of the deck more mana efficient and value-oriented.
I've tried out snapcasters but haven't been super impressed with them. I'm also not playing any discard main which is meta dependent.
Currently I'm playing this but haven't been super excited by it. It's hard to get too creative with this deck since our combo takes up so much room.
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Misthollow Griffin
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Walking Ballista
1 Eternal Scourge
4 Baleful Strix
1 Trinket Mage
4 Food Chain
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Fatal Push
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Manipulate Fate
4 Ponder
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Plague
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Murderous Cut
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
