Could you share your decklist? I tried more creature-centric approach before, but I am able to play only 1-2x a week IRL so I have abandoned such idea as non-productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
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Could you share your decklist? I tried more creature-centric approach before, but I am able to play only 1-2x a week IRL so I have abandoned such idea as non-productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
I didn't realize these videos would be of paper gameplay! Good stuff :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey
Just 5-0d for the first time :)
Tabernacle was clutch in my last match against elves where I drew nothing but fast mana and held him off long enough to win.
my list should up tomorrow or something
in my experience tabernacle is shit against elves unless they get shafted. All they need is 1 of their 4 gaea's cradles and tabernacle is worthless. They are much more likely to find a cradle than us find a tabernacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by solnox
Negator I just saw your list on MTGtop8 and I have some questions regarding the chard choices. I hope you can give me some insight on this.
1. Is it really worth it splashing blue just for Brainstorm and Flusterstorm?Quote:
1 [C14] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Sejiri Steppe
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [R] Underground Sea
1 [TE] Wasteland
2 [R] Bayou
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [TSP] Gemstone Mine
4 [CS] Dark Depths
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
4 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
4 [M15] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [C14] Vampire Hexmage
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [C15] Brainstorm
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [DTK] Duress
2 [] Inquisition of Kozilek
3 [BFZ] Sylvan Scrying
4 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [C15] Ghost Quarter
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [CNS] Stifle
SB: 2 [C15] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
2. Most lists I see play Lotus Petal over Mox Diamond. Obviously there are some advantages and disadvantages ( to both but I would like to hear your opinion on why you chose to play Diamond over Petal. Is it because you need three colors over more than one turn?
3. In which match-ups do you board in Flusterstorm? Storm and other combo decks?
4. Can you tell me what the main advantages are over the typical BG Dark Depths builds with multiple Bayous? It just feels like Not of this World and Elvish Spirit Guide are really strong and I don't know if splashing blue is doing enough.
Thanks in advance!
Guess I dont get my list up there but I agree Tabernacle felt weakish. I'll probably replace it with something else
Yeah Tabernacle has been shit for me lately, too.
Your list should get posted. There is a delay of an extra 1-2 days depending on the time you finish (not sure exactly where the cutoff is) before they get posted. My guess is that it will show up tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by solnox
HansoRaptor - heading out now, but will try to write up something on those questions at some point over the holiday weekend.
yea. just got posted :).
Lost legacy feels pretty good. especially vs miracles.
Gratz! What's your top priority target with Lost Legacy vs Miracles? Terminus? I'm very afraid of giving them extra draws, that's why I like the Surgical plan (hit Swords and deny them the Terminus at the same time). But I haven't tried Lost Legacy yet. I really should give it a try, because Miracles is becoming the main problem matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by solnox
Just my two cents, but you really want to hit swords to plowshares, since it turns off a larger number of their outs (once swords is gone snapcaster is useless against a 20/20).Quote:
Originally Posted by Doneval
I want to preface this by saying I have really liked lost legacy out of the sideboard -- it's got utility against more decks than you would expect -- but I'm not sure it's actually very good against Legends Miracles and should possibly not even be brought in for that matchup. The variety of answers that they have makes it pretty terrible precisely for the reason you mention (it draws them more cards). I recently managed to Lost Legacy StP and draw my opponent into a Venser :cool:. Rather than Lost Legacy in that matchup I would prioritize Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library.
I usually name Swords to Plowshares. Terminus is a lot harder to use with Needles. It reduces Snapcaster's power significantly and reduces their available outs
Just my opinions here. I will note again as I have in the past that the majority of Depths players disagree and prefer straight BG.Quote:
Originally Posted by HansoRaptor
1 - I think so, yes. One of my biggest issues with various Depths decks is the # of really narrow cards. ESG, Petal, NOTW in the BG versions... Mox Diamond in mine. Pithing Needle, multiple Urborg with no Crop Rotation draws, and discard after its no longer relevant in both versions. Running Brainstorm shrinks the number of narrow cards in the main deck and can shuffle away stuff that isn't relevant in particular matchups. For instance, Brainstorm simultaneously gives you more looks at early discard against a deck it is strong against like say Storm while enabling the shuffling away of more or less dead cards in that match-up like Pithing Needle. It also allows me to run a ridiculously high 28 lands without as much fear of flooding out. I mean, it's the most busted card in the format and all the normal pros of brainstorm apply. Running more powerful cards probably doesn't require too much droning on. I like Flusterstorm over other artifact based hate because of it's applications against fast combo. Fluster on t1 can still even work through things like a revealed Chancellor. I like the card that can double as protection against bounce spells or certain other answers combo decks can bring in for Marit Lage while also fighting their primary plans any day over sphere or chalice effects.
2 - In part, yeah it enables an easy 3-5 colors depending on the meta. I was also splashing red during the Dig Through Time era to run sideboard Slaughter Games against Omnitell and Miracles to nice results. One of the most ridiculously fun things to do it have the "perfect brainstorm" on turn 1 off a Mox Diamond + Brainstorm into shuffle effect. That start will often find you exactly what you need to go for it with disruption on turn 2. The number of times I've played Brainstorm (off mox) into a fetch + discard on turn 1 followed by a turn 2 token is very high and it's a very difficult opening to beat. Those extra looks for our most powerful cards like Crops, Hexmages, discard spells, etc. really matter on turns 1/2. Besides the early kill applications, I want more than a one shot out of my artifact mana. Playing Mox against Moon decks helps use Krosan Grip to fight Blood Moon without doing things like fetching a basic when you really need both colors in that spot. Having access to sideboard cards in another 1-3 colors is nice to. I'm currently enjoying sideboarding in a one of Stifle against all Wasteland decks, D+T, Miracles, and others to good effect.
3 - Flusterstorm is primarily for combo decks yeah, especially Storm, Show and Tell, and Reanimator decks. It's flexible enough to use in lots of spots since it can double as protection against any spell based hate aimed at Marit Lage. I even bring it in against Miracles at times if I think they are going more heavily in on spells and boarding out permanents like Counterbalance to avoid decays. This happens more than you would think. I've extracted many Miracles players and their boarding strategy against Depths seems to vary a lot from player to player. It's good at wrecking plays like Snap/Plow.
4 - I think the answer to this one is a little baked into the other answers.. Running what I view as more objectively powerful cards over cards that are great in certain more narrow spots in addition to getting more looks at our best cards are primary advantages. I also like having more lands (23-24 for BG vs 28 for me) and less "must go as fast as possible" cards like ESG and Petal vs only mox. I feel favored to heavily favored in most spots against decks I'd be trying to race, so the extra fast mana just doesn't appeal to me. I also have a ton more permanent colored sources and rarely run into issues there compared to my experiences playing and watching BG versions. I guess overall, I feel my version is more consistent with less clunky draws when it has Brainstorm and more lands/colored sources.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=111730
This list made 17th at SCG Legacy. My 75 from EW, still seems to work lol.
@Negator:
Thank you for this detailed explanation! I think I will experiment a bit with blue and see how it works.
I was also working on a more control build with Living Wish, but I kinda feel like it's just lands without Tabernacle and Loam, so not sure if that approach is good to begin with.
I brewed this up awhile ago based on an old Hoogland build (or it might be one of his decks, can't remember)...felt too slow and has some gimmicky stuff in it, but you can get a little bit different things going with Living Wish. Went with a Chalice + Nether Void plan to give it combo hate. It could use some reworking but might give you ideas. Not really in the scope of Turbo Depths though -
2 Barren Moor
3 Bayou
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Life from the Loam
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Living Wish
4 Mox Diamond
1 Nether Void
2 Sylvan Library
Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Peacekeeper
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Wasteland
Has anyone tried Nullrod?
Stops Top, and all the artifacts in DT outside of Batterskull. I find myself losing a lot to Aether Vial etc when i dont draw one of my 4 needles and figured I might want a 5th needle basically
I have. I think I might run it in the sideboard if I was in a meta with >2 D&T players, for the reasons you listed (for what it's worth, I actually don't think it does enough against miracles, where I think ultimately something like chalice is much better). The problem is that it forces your hand when sideboarding. I felt like I HAD TO board out lotus petal when I brought in null rod because, in my opinion, the deck just can't afford to have empty draws given the number of cards it has to dump into the combo. This is why I moved away from null rod, chalice, and other cards that shut off portions of my deck as well as my opponents'. Again, this is just personal preference -- not saying I'm totally right.Quote:
Originally Posted by solnox
If you're worried about D&T I would stick a few dread of night in the board before I thought about null rod. As for Miracles, I've had some luck with Dark Confidant, Lost Legacy and Surgical. Bob either draws you cards or eats removal/countermagic, which you can surgical, and lost legacy can clean up the rest. Especially against the predict/ponder-heavy Anuraag Das version this plan has been very good.
On another note -- Andrea Mengucci just posted a video series to CF piloting the deck. His sideboard includes two Tsunami and a Boseiju to fight miracles. He actually manages to resolve the tsunami in match 4, albeit against a questionable Miracles pilot (e.g. sideboards in rest in peace), but it's still interesting to me. Never thought Tsunami would ever get the job done, although in the category of semi-expensive blue hate I have messed around with city of solitude and choke before.
It hasn't been enough lately. Both games I played against DnT at the open this weekend, null rod did nothing either because my opponent drew cards that didn't care about the rod and beat my face in while holding up wasteland and karakas, or they already equipped their swords to a guy and the damage was already done. I agree that Dread of Night is probably your best choice when it comes to DnT hate. As for miracles, I like it better since it covers both top and EE, but its also been an under-performer in that matchup too.Quote:
Originally Posted by solnox
He probably brought them in to combat a non-existent Loam strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by thanksnah