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i'd consider a singleton helm of awakening. it works well with defense grid (when casting multiples), and also it makes your pyrite spellbombs cycling = 1. (i think it's a reasonable compromise instead of the 4th desperate ritual).Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
i will try to play on monday. hopefully i'll make it on time. :)
You're right. I've been trying a singleton Helm on and off and sometimes I miss it. I'll look into cutting 1 Grid or 1 Reforge for 1 Helm. Probably the Grid.
Maybe even cutting 1 AoI wouldn't be a bad idea, since the absence of LED does make it harder to make full use of them.
or i would just run the 4th desperate ritual. it's still great w/ bonus round and/or getting to 6 mana for haz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
It isn't clear to me whether you're suggesting to run the 4th Ritual and the 1 helm, or one or the other. And what would you cut to fit them in?
I think the flex spots in the list you posted are
2 empty
2 haz
3 grid
1 desperate
You can play around with anything in those slots tbh.
I liked 3 rubies 2 helms
Changes I have made:
Main:
-1 Bonus Round (moved to the side)
-1 Empty the Warrens
-3 Defense Grid
+1 Desperate Ritual
+1 Helm of Awakening
+1 Fiery Confluence
+2 Pyrite Spellbomb (from the side)
Side:
-2 Shattering Spree
-2 Pyrite Spellbomb (moved to the main)
-1 Mizzix's Mastery
+2 Vandalblast (trying this as an alternative to Spree)
+2 Hope of Ghirapur (alt to Grids)
+1 Bonus Round (from the main)
Wy 3 Rubies and 2 Helms and not 4 Rubies 1 Helm? I've noticed that giving your opponent a cost reducer can be very scary, and the only non-red card that you want to cast are the Rubies and the one off Tendrils SB. The downside isn't worth the upside imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by compacta_d
The first Helm is more valuable on the combo turn than the first Ruby, because Helm makes additional Rubies /Helms cheaper but still doing the same job as Ruby. While the first reducer is the most important, the 2nd reducer makes the combo turn absurd. Honestly, most decks can't capitalize on the free mana from Helm in ways that are relevant. The most played cards are super efficient already; the ones that are reduced don't matter most of the time. You're killing them with 20+ goblins, Tendils, or Grapeshot. Nice True-Name Nemesis for 2 mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
I've played with 5 reducer effects, and it's fine, but I really like 6 (4 Ruby, 2 Helms.) I could be convinced to go 3/3, might even try it out.
@Glass House: how have the Spellbombs been doing? I am intrigued...they are removal or draw, whichever you need, and are just fine as early turn plays. I love me some spellbombs, I just never thought to put them in here.
What are you afraid of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
I had a Maverick player do Thalia, Jitte, and i forget what else on turn 3 on the play.
I won next turn. Didn't matter.
Part of what I love about this deck is that stuff like Thalia doesn't really effect it. Thorn effects etc.
Canonist does though I guess. We can answer that too though. Usually also just faster.
the main argument imho for helm as a 1 or 2 off (even over a ruby) is that thalia and thorn are a pain in the ass for lotus petal and LED. helm will act as a maindeck answer to those cards, where ruby doesn't.
just understand that helm is significantly worse vs other combo decks.
Going to jam the UR list tomorrow at a tournament. I'm not 100% sure yet but I'm thinking of going:
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Bonus Round
4 Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
4 Manamorphose
2 Past in Flames
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Mediallion
1 Helm
3 Volcanic
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain
7 Fetch
//Sideboard
4 Defense Grid
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Past in Flames
1 Hull Breach (still rocking this one)
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Abrade
1 Grapeshot
1 By Force
1 Tendrils
1 Rite of Flame
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
The reason that I play 3 Reforge is that I unexpectedly didn't sleep at home, and had the mono red build with me + Grixis Control. So I had to make do, otherwise I would have run the 4th Reforge over the Helm I think. I can also run a Hazoreth's Last Fury MB but I'm not that happy with the card. It's only ever good with Bonus Round, I had so many misses without Bonus Round. Just flipping mana and lands or Medallions is bad.
Also, how many times do you guys and gals kill with Empty the Warrens. Both with mono red and UR I almost never kill with Empty the Warrens, it's mostly Tendrils I kill with. Do you experience that as well?
EDIT: Also, the 5th mana reducer isn't that bad with Bonus Round. I found that it can be sometimes a bit difficult to start with Bonus Round and then fire off rituals to get the most effect of Bonus Round. With another reducer-artifact you help that problem somewhat.
Did you think about Epic Experiment? I played it for a couple of tournament and i like it. Doing a effect like Reforge but you can cast without paying mana the other spells. It's strong if you can do with Bonus Rebound and with all your mana spells. Gives a more solidity against discards and controls, but it's a little worse against Taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
With the mono-red version, i kill several times with storming at t1 with ETW
New to the thread... but I've been playing this list to a lot of success.
//Artifact (10)
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
//Instant (11)
3 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
//Sorcery (25)
4 Act on Impulse
3 Bonus Round
4 Burning Wish
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Past in Flames
4 Reforge the Soul
4 Rite of Flame
//Land (14)
3 Ancient Tomb
8 Mountain
3 Sandstone Needle
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
I haven't tried Epic Experiment but I'll try it for sure. It's not as efficient as Reforge is when you have 6 or less mana (because you can draw 7 and then continue casting spells) but it's pretty good with cost reducers. Maybe as a one off as another enabler. It's indeed good with Bonus Round and against discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by hadhod
I went 4-1 today with this list:
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Bonus Round
4 Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
1 Act on Impulse
4 Manamorphose
2 Past in Flames
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Mediallion
3 Volcanic
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain
7 Fetch
//Sideboard
3 Defense Grid
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Past in Flames
1 Hull Breach (still rocking this one)
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Abrade
1 Grapeshot
1 By Force
1 Tendrils
1 Rite of Flame
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
The reason that I didn't play the 4th Reforge the Soul was because I didn't have it with me at the moment that I left my house Friday night, and I didn't expect to play today in a tournament, only expected to test yesterday.
M1 vs Maverick. I win game 1 quickly on Rituals > Bonus Round > Ritual > Wish into PiF and the second copy of Wish goes for Tendrils.
Game 2 I win by making 16 tokens on turn 2. I couldn't find a Manamorphose or double Petal for the Tendrils kill. I boarded:
-1 Bonus Round
-1 Lotus Petal
-2 Desperate Ritual
+2 Silent Gravestone
+2 Abrade
M2 vs Krark-Clan Ironworks (talking about fringe combo decks lol). Both games are quite simplistic, both games are turn 2 Medallion into turn 3 Rituals into Reforge the Soul and then Tendrils kill. Nothing special to tell.
+2 Silent Gravestone (worst case it's insane against his Scrap Trawler and friends, even if he doesn't have Surgicals)
+2 Abrade
-1 Bonus Round
-1 Ponder
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Desperate Ritual
M3 vs Grixis Control. Game one goes long, he hits me often with discard and can destroy my Medallions. Ancient Tomb + Snapcaster beatdown goes the way. I topdeck the win too late and die without honour. There was one moment that I my opponent was tapped out and went for it. I had cast one Bonus Round, had UURR in my pool and a Brainstorm and an Act on Impulse. At that moment I could have done two games, A: cast Brainstorm, see 4 cards, put 2 back and Act on Impulse twice. That means I would see 6 cards of which I know 4. I would have had no mana left. This didn't look like the best line so I went for line B: Act on Impulse leaving one R in my pool, hoping to hit a Rite of Flame or land and a couple of rituals and a payoff spell. I didn't hit this, only hit Medallions, Desperate Rituals, Reforge the Soul and no lands. What would you guys have done? I choose the line of seeing 2 cards less but having one R after I resolved the Act on Impulse. I think this is the correct line, but there is something to see for seeing more cards.
Game two goes long as well but at one moment I can power through his countermagic and I get to PiF. I play PiF, make mana and in response he Surgicals my Wish which he discarded early game. I was stupid because I didn't board in a second win con so I have to scoop. I couldn't Bonus Round a couple of times into Reforge the Soul because my deck had significantly less cards in it, so I couldn't force a draw.
+2 Silent Gravestone
+3 Defense Grid
-1 Bonus Round
-2 Desperate Ritual
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Ponder
M4 vs Grixis Control. Again Grixis Control. Again a long game one but I can cast a PiF after hitting a couple of counters and my graveyard was loaded. I can combo off with 15 storm into Tendrils. Deck feels good.
Game two I board in the Grapeshot from the sideboard because it's a second win con and I don't expect hatebears. This wasn't necessary because I can combo off quickly behind a Defense Grid. Kolaghan's Command came too late because Ancient Tomb supports broken lines (tho I still like 3 MB, Bonus Round cost RR and I don't want to fuel all my rituals before a Bonus Round so I feel that the deck is slightly better with 3 Tombs instead of 4, with also wanting blue mana. I can be wrong of course).
+2 Silent Gravestone
+3 Defense Grid
+1 Grapeshot
-1 Bonus Round
-2 Desperate Ritual
-1 Lotus Petal
-2 Ponder
M5 vs BUG Nic Fit. This was a very quick game, the opponent didn't know what I was on so he named Brainstorm with his blind Cabal Therapy on the play. He missed, I play a turn 1 Medallion and continue to storm off turn two. He discarded one of my rituals but I topdecked another one.
Game two was another turn two kill. Because he played with blue I boarded Defense Grid, this came through on turn 1 which blanked the Flusterstorm he had. I draw a Rite of Flame and can go Seething Song, Bonus Round, Rite of Flame, Wish into Hazoreth's Undying Fury and another Rite of Flame and combo off like that. HUF reveals Manamorphoses, Rituals and drawspells and I win.
+2 Silent Gravestone (I knew he had two Surgicals)
+3 Defense Grid
-2 Desperate Ritual
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Ponder
-1 Bonus Round
I was a little bit inconsistent with boarding in another wincon if I expected Surgicals but that's because I don't think that it's necessary to board in a mediocre second wincon (I'll come back to this later) in the form of Grapeshot when the opponent only has Surgicals and not (much) discard/Snapcasters, with Snapcaster giving them the opportunity to be a lot more lenient with their Surgicals. That said, I need to play a Fiery Confluence next time. With Bonus Round in the deck it's just straight up one of the better second wincons that you can board in against Surgical. It can also kill through a Leyline of Sanctity which is important. I'll cut the Hull Breach for it for now. Also I want a Chain Lightning as a Wish-target because I noticed that sometimes you want to kill that hatebear and Grapeshot is not enough (when it's a Ethersworn Canonist for example). Not sure what I'll cut for this.
I'll also start testing with the mono-red version and with Experimental Frenzy. I believe the card can be very good after seeing it in play in standard. Sure, it's a different format but a Future Sight is never bad, especially not when you can play it on turn 2 with 8 'sol'-lands.
can someone please stop me from trying to jam runaway steam-kin into this deck? :frown:
Brewing should never be stopped!Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglervr
@bosaapje thx for the report! Always interesting, especially sideboard decisions. I almost always board in fiery confluence without thinking about if they have surgical or not. You boarded in 2 abrades in a couple of games, but looks like you only run 1 in the board? Was it abrade + hull breach?
I'm set on my maindeck, but the sideboard feels so hard to build correctly, any other thoughts on the sideboard?
Any special reason why the second mountain in the main?
Regarding the brainstorm/AoI situation I think I would have brainstormed. You will see at least 4 cards and if you draw 1 of RoF, desperate, seething, manamorphose, burning wish you are better off. If you miss those but draw a fetchland you are in the same spot as you started. If you draw land or lotus petal you are ok. Ponder would be good to draw as well. There are few combinations of 4 cards that don't win you the game there...
I made an error when writing my decklist, I'll change it but I ran 3 Defense Grid and a second Abrade. Normally I would run a 4th Defense Grid but I didn't have it with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JosefK
Not really yet, I'm also struggling with the correct SB. What is yours atm?Quote:
Originally Posted by JosefK
I'm a poor scrub who doesn't have a third Volcanic. I never got a third Volcanic and focused on other duals because I rarely played UR-decks. But let's keep it between you and me and say it's to be more Wasteland-proof (I'll fix one soon tho because a third one is definitely better than the second Mountain).Quote:
Originally Posted by JosefK
You're right, didn't see that line when I was playing. Thanks for the feedback!Quote:
Originally Posted by JosefK