[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

Hey all, my buddy has been playing Dreadstill from my collection for quite some time, and I was just curious what everyone is doing against Zoo, and heavy aggro decks? Or what they suggest as the best option to handle them?

We've tried things like Sower, Propaganda, Pyroclasm and a few others.

I'm playing at the moment Ugr build, against aggro:

Main:
EE
Pitching Needle - Aether Vial

Postboard:
Firespout
BEB/REB -Goblins,Merfolk
Energy Flux - Affinity

This is my current list. Comments are welcome. Ugr

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Fire/Ice
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill

3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island

SB

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Firespout
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus

This is it.. Advice is welcome..
It works well btw..

That's my exact list, -3 snares and +1 Daze, Standstill and Island in the main, and -2 tormods -1 relic for Kgrip #4 and 2 sowers in the board.

How have the snares been working for you, and have you tested with sower yet?

I still haven't tested the Sower, I'll test it during the weekend.
Spell Snare is really good. It's situational, but it helps on opponent's turn 2 and it counters just so many things! Goyf, Bob, Sinkhole, Counterspell, Standstill, Cb etc.
All the format's best spells are at cc 2..

Spell Snare become near must have now 'cause Qasali Pridemage is an asshole for you (saying this as Zoo player :tongue:).

Red Panda, how are the Fire/Ice working for you?
Btw anyone else other than me think that the Trinket Mage aren't so good? They are fine, but the deck is so tight that other things are more useful..

Why don't you play EE MD?
It's the strongest removal this deck can run and you don't use it?
I just can't play without it. Ok, you're running 2x fire//ice, but while waiting for nought, what do you say to your opponent's permanents?
Really don't you need it? Think about it.

Here's my decklist

3 phyrexian dreadnought
3 tarmogoyf
3 trinket mage

4 stifle
1 trickbind
4 force of will
3 daze
3 spell snare
4 brainstorm
4 standstill
3 counterbalance
2 sensei's divining top
2 EE

3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
3 island
3 tropical island
2 volcanic island
4 mishra's factory
3 wasteland

SB

2 firespout
3 reb
2 beb
3 krosan grip
1 relic of the progenitus
1 tormod crypt
2 threads of disloyalty
1 pithing needle

3 Dreadnoughts and 3 Goyfs? I would never play less than 4.
What my deck lacked were removal/solutions to high costing creatures, EE wasn't what I needed so I added Fire/Ice.
I will try 3 EE in those slots, a friend of mine already suggested it.
I have those 3 slots to play with, the rest is not going to change.. Btw I already have sweepers post board, so Fire/Ice seemed fine to me. The biggest problem the deck has is if a creature lands and I don't have 'Nought down, but it must be a big creature like tombstalker to create problems, because mishra's can chump block non flying ones and Also can Goyf..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

I faced Zoo three times during the tournament so I saw Pridemage quite a bit. TBH he never once effected one game we played because he either never resolved or he died the turn after from either an EE or Pyroclasm postboard. I wouldn't worry about him too much just run a playset of Snares or at least 3. It's manditory now I'd say in all lists.

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so rood what is your current list?i havent had a chance to talk to you online in a while so im trying to find a decent list to take to the legacy 5k.iv been doing some smaller tournys in my area and im still doing a crucible plan but thats because we have alot of landstill players.but i know at the 5k it will be different.
honost question to all you out there.the new snake the 1ug one that gets +1+1 every time you draw a card for the Urg style decks what do you think of him over goyf?he would get larger than a goyf given a few turns.and in a attrition war he would eventually out grow your opponents blockers.

Sadly i got the feeling that most of the posts in this thread lack quality / testing / thoughts / whatever.
Enough flaming, onto content.


-Spell Snare:

Everybody talks about how amazing this spell is and how many things it hits, but doesnt look into the context of overall deck strategy / design / situation.

For those too lazy to go back a page i quote myself

Quote:

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- 11 one for one counterspells are too much, especially the one that is not free. With Spell Snare around, the deck really needs to keep threats from table and can run into trouble if something can slip through. Which i felt was always a weakness of the Ur build (in certain matchups).

- More business without Snare in a additional SDT and CB in both versions and Goyf in the Ug version. In my Ur version i play two Fire/Ice, as i am not completly sold on them, but till know they have been quite good.

- Manacurve, in the Spell Snare version CB is a nice gimmick, but the deck is not really equipped to effectivly use the card with 2 SDT and a manacurve of 13 cmc2 spells of which are 4 Daze which get sided out frequently on the draw. With the changes the deck has become a very powerful CB deck, while losing just some agility due to the lack of Snare.

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Short:
- Deckspace and design constraints (more room for bombs / less one for one's) and manacurve for CB.

-Now to take a look at the gameplan. Spell Snare fits in there very well when you are on the draw, but not if you are on the play (where Daze shines).
If you are on the play, you dont have room to play a Snare most of the time, you want to resolve you own threats and protect them with free countermagic most of the time.
Dont get me wrong, i think Spell Snare is a very good card, but i just think i like that 4th CB, the 3rd Top and a Goyf more (= bombs) than another one for one spell, which we already have quite alot.
For that reason i moved the Snares to the board, where i exchange them with the Dazes if i am on the draw or in some matchups in addition to the Daze's.
Ultimately it may be also a playstlye decision, Rood's Ur maindeck is a masterpiece of synergy and power, but i think my arguments are legit, so i will keep this configuration till i am proved otherwise.

-Lists / ideas in the last couple of posts:

Cutting Trinket Mage is a mistake in my opinion, his tutor ability is very strong in this deck. It allows the deck to get away with lower numbers / one-off's on their key artifacts and it frees up sideboard space.

For example, without Mage Chalice is a far larger threat, because you will lack the ability to tutor for EE. Also i wouldnt play a version with only 3 Noughts and no Mages, because the combo would be too conditional in my eyes.

About Fire/Ice, i think its fine in the Ur build. First of its manacost fits very well into the curve. Ice fits into the manadisruption theme and allows to tap blockers sometimes. Fire is a good maindeck answer to small critters, especially Dark Confidant (one of the main reasons to play it imo).
Just make sure that you dont cut a more useful / powerful spell for it.

-Splash colours / SB choices:

I still think that the splash colour is a meta choice. The most powerful version is Ugr for sure, but it lacks the mana stability of Ug or Ur, which can be problematic in some metas.
Currently i am leaning towards Ug, simply because i think that it has the better maindeck, even if the sb seems lacking in some areas.

Another reason is that you have a very solid beater in Tarmo, which is NOT artifact / enchantment and thus unaffected by Pridemage / Predator.

Speaking of the latter, he (and Tombstalker foremost) was the reason that i added Sower to my sb. I must hand it to BKclassic, who made very good suggestions in Propaganda and Sower for the Ug build.

Nought is very very good most of the time, like Standstill and CB/ Top, but not always. And in the cases where he is not that hot, i like to be able to fall back to Tarmo as main beater.

Disadvantage of Ug is the sb choices and that you are affected by Submerge, which makes the matchup against Tempo ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh harder, but by no means bad.

Current Ug sb:
1 EE
1 Needle
1 Crypt
2 Sower
3 Grip
3 Spell Snare
4 Propaganda

Feel free to pick my post away.

I've tested the Ugw dreadstill bringing it to a few tournaments and doing nothing more than 3-3 or something like this, the fact is that I thought the UGr/UG/Ur versions lacked on spot removal suite, so I went UGw to have goyf and stp for creatures, besides that stp is great to land a quick standstill, but so many times I had a hand full of removals and no counters and now I don't know how to proceed, for reference here's the list I brought to the last tournament finishing 3-3 loosing 2-0 to RGB Aggroloam (never seen a counterbalance), 2-0 to MonoU Merfolk (I mull to 5 with a land and didn't draw another in the first 5-6 turns), post SB he sided annul and ofcourse I mull to 6 starting with one counter, and I lost to 2-1 to ichorid due to manascrew (only a land in g3 with a great starting hand of 2 dazes, 1 relic, 1 tundra, 1 e.e. 1 stp, ofcourse I had to mull to 6).

Quote:

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61 cards
Lands (20) too few I think, but I found no room for another

4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 tropical island
2 tundra
2 island
1 plains

3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland

Creatures (10)

4 nought I can't play less than the fullset
4 tarmogoyf Like above
2 trinket mage Simply awesome

Spells (31)

4 fow
3 daze
3 counterbalance

4 stifle
2 trickbind

4 brainstorm
3 standstill

4 stp
2 e.e.

2 sensei's top

SIDEBOARD

3 beb
3 gaddock teeg
3 graveyard hate
3 grip
1 e.e.
1 counterbalance
1 top

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When I was playing the deck I noticed a strange thing: sometimes It gave my ridicolous hands (like 7 cards with one land, the plains, or 5 lands and 2 nought), and sometimes ridicolously good hand (2 lands, 1 nought, 2 stifle 1 fow 1 daze), I never drawed a medium hand...mah...

So I might go UGr or UG but the fact that those lists run no spot removals scares me, how do you handle a quick tarmogoyf/jotun grunt/lackey? In these cases standstill is also very useless because its card advantage is bounded to a superior board advantage (tarmo, mishras), so digging the deck with the only brainstorms (and maybe 2 tops) seems hard to me, am I wrong?

I do want to take the 4th cb and the 3rd top in the MD but I found no room, perhaps the UGw is not the right path...

Suggestions?

PS: and quoting deadlock, I agree to don't cut the trinket that have won me so many games (chalice of the void got pwned by this guy)and I tested snares and always seemed too situational to me (stp/path on dreadnought, ups snare counters to 2!), but maybe I was only unlucky...

I prefer adding a top rather than a Trinket Mage. It's better to have turn 1-2-3 top than 3rd turn Trinket Mage and 4th top. And with EE it's the same.. Play 3 if you want them. Btw I almost never tutored for Dreadnought with Mage..
The nicest thing is that Mage has cc3 for CB..

@Mandalore: I believe that the removal of choice in Uw Dreadstill was Oblivion Ring. It had the benefit of hitting all permanents and also allowing you to Stifle the leaves play trigger if an opponent managed to KGrip it. Swords to Plowshares is a great card but it is too passive and too narrow to be great in a deck like Dreadstill that is constantly jockeying for position and has a bunch of counterspells to avoid having a nasty creature land against it in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pippo84

I prefer adding a top rather than a Trinket Mage. It's better to have turn 1-2-3 top than 3rd turn Trinket Mage and 4th top. And with EE it's the same.. Play 3 if you want them. Btw I almost never tutored for Dreadnought with Mage..
The nicest thing is that Mage has cc3 for CB..

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You, sir, should consider playing less Dreadnoughts and more Trinket Mages in your deck. The best thing about Trinket Mage is that he undoes the card disadvantage of going Dreadnouhgt->Stifle. Balling. Especially against decks with removal. Apparently you are having success with your current build, though, so I merely suggest you keep Trinket Mage in mind if your match win percentage starts to dwindle.

@Mandalore-
Basically, I think you should just give a traditional Ug/Ugr/Ur list a chance. I think you'll find spot removal isn't really needed because individual threats are often outclassed by Phyrexian Dreadnought and Daze and Stifle can keep your opponent from accomplishing alot. And for heaven's sake, cut that Plains. You should really have 14 blue sources before you start dilly-dallying with non-Island-basics. If you stick with Ugw, Meddling Mage is hella-better than Gaddock Teeg in SB since you can name Krosan Grip against almost anything and it doesn't shut down your own FoWs and EEs.

Since the deck's fastest win condition is 'Nought I won't go down to 3..
Last tournament I played 2 TM, I cutted them from the deck because they almost always were boarded out. I'll try again, but I'm not to fond of them. That's all.

After some advices I made some changes in my latest list:

-1 plains
-1 stp
-1 e.e.

+1 island
+1 mishra's factory
+1 top

And for what concerns the sideboard:

-1 cb
-1 top
-3 gaddock to be honest I didn't find any landstill or whitestax in the last 4 tournaments, now I'll probably find one :tongue:

+1 e.e.
+4 meddling mage naming krosan grip could be a good idea, if he lives enough...

For now I decided to don't cut the remaining 3 stp, but in the next week I'll probably test oblivion ring in these slots, oring also helps counterbalance improving the cc3 curve, could be an intresting card...

Thanks for help!

@Mandalore- Meddling Mage is still a decent card against Landstill and Stax, and even if it does get removed, it has still advanced your deck's gameplan by getting rid of a removal spell that would have otherwise hit Tarmogoyf or Dreadnought. If you like Meddling Mage, you should try 2 Pithing Needle also. 4 Meddling Mage and 2 Pithing Needle has the capacity to seriously shut down your opponent's deck.

@pippo84- As long as your Dreadnoughts aren't getting destroyed too much, you are probably fine. If you start getting two-for-one'd alot, you will probably understand why everyone doesn't run four.

How is the UGR Tempo Threshold matchup for the builds with only 3 or 4 Islands in them? I'm thinking about running the Ur template but with 2 Underground Seas in addition to the 2 Volcanic Islands. The main deck would still be straight blue/artifact but the sideboard would have Perish for all the green creatures the meta is swarming with today.

I'm thinking this sideboard:

4x Pyroblast
3x Pyroclasm
3x Perish
3x Hydroblast
2x Relic of Progenitus

I figure it gives me options against all the tribal swarm at the moment and Zoo and Threshold. Pyroblast and Pyroclasm for Merfolk, Hydroblast and Pyroclasm for Goblins, Pyroclasm and Perish for Elves and Zoo, and Pyroblast and Perish against Threshold with it's green creature base.

Anybody see flaws there?

I played UR Dreadstill at a small local tournament (20ish people) Yesterday. I choose it over Ichorid to avoid all the Yard hate which I didn't feel like fighting through that day. I should have known better haha.
I had unlucky pairings if you will, but UR, with a threat density as low as it has, cannot beat all the removal played.
I Faced:

GB Loam/Rock 2-0 -> Quick Dreadnought is faster than his removal. Its nice to play Nought, Waste a Bayou and Stifle his fetch to leave him at a lonely forest against the Dreadnought.
GB Suicide/Eva -> 0-2. I can't beat 4 Smothers, 4 Edicts and 4 Krosan Grip without the CB I didn't have at that point.
GBW Rock -> 0-2. First game he has StP, Vindicate, Edict, etc. Postboard he brings in Grips and more Edicts.
GB Eva Green -> I actually manage to steal the second game through Sower of Temptation. Third game I get him to 3 with 3 Mishra's and again a Counterbalance. Then he Grips the CB, Sinkholes the Mishra's twice, Wastes twice, has Snuff Out for the Trinket Mage, plays Goyf and shows me two more Snuff Outs, an Edict and a Krosan Grip. This was after I bounced+Relicked the Tombstalker :(

Sigh. I dropped after that, it's too frustrating to be paired to basically the same Removal.dec three times in a row. Well enough Dreadstill for me for a while :)