Top 4d another event with a version of your list Jack. Explosives was a blank all day, however sphere of law was bacl breaking against Burn.
Win: miracles, burn, sneak and show, ant, ant
Loss: miracles round 2 and grixis control in top 4.
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Top 4d another event with a version of your list Jack. Explosives was a blank all day, however sphere of law was bacl breaking against Burn.
Win: miracles, burn, sneak and show, ant, ant
Loss: miracles round 2 and grixis control in top 4.
I ended up going 5-2 in the SCG super IQ today. Not good enough for T8, 14th out of 72.
Lost round one to a huge punt not blowing EE before a delver flipped with delver and mongoose on the board. Just got my timing wrong, don't ask.
My other loss was an all in red deck with chalice of the void, their own blood moons and 4 x Emrakul. Needless to say, not a good match-up.
Beat Miracles, infect, fish, lands, and another RUG delver deck. Still a pretty solid performance despite my eff-up round one (which may have also cost me T8 as it made my tie-breakers bad. At least one X-2 made T8). Oh well, next time.
If WotC were to print something "reasonable" that would help us, what would that look like?
There isn't much we actually need. It's all making sure the format stays dual and blue heavy. The only thing that woul be auto include is magus of the grindstone.
A planeswalker (eg Chandra variant) that does at least 2 damage to target creature or player, has some sort of card advantage effect and a worthwhile ultimate. If Ajani Vengeant had the second ability of Chandra (exile top card and play it that turn). It would be awesome. Or if Koth's second ability was that ability, also very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by henweigh
Other than that I think an artifact with a greater auramancy effect would be nice.
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I think there's a chance we might get something in origins. I don't know if you guys saw the new Lili but if we get a Walker in the same style it could be real good. (or way to slow) but a powerful Walker that we can recruiter for seems sweet
Different note : So eternal weekend was awesome and I saw a few people on painter. I want to type up a report when I get my laptop fixed.
I suppose so, it would be pretty nice. Here's hoping it has good abilities and doesn't have power > 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
Eternal Extravaganza posted their top 32 decklists and I noticed a familiar name at 22..
19th Miachael Mapson, here's the list for discussion.
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Blood Moon
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
3 Goblin Welder
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
2 Lotus Petal
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Firebolt
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Martyr of Ashes
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sphere of Law
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
Would be interested in discussing your choices. Sideboard seems fine. Switch one SSG for a petal at a minimum.
McBain, I agree that the switch is correct but I only have 2 altered lotus petals and 3 foil simian spirit guides so...not happening. XD
Also I like spirit guide more because using him to cast pyroblast makes me feel like I'm casting force of will which I do in every other deck I play so...
Hello guys,
I am testing Imperial Painter a bit to get a feeling about the deck (and also by pure deckbuilding curiosity). One of the first thing I liked is the various gameplans the deck proposes. Looking at a lot of lists and playing several games, I was surprised to see 4 Imperial Painter in almost every list. I know the card is good, but my feeling is that 3 would be enough. The card is quite slow and sticking in my hand quite often. I will continue to pratice with a standard list (because I am too new to the deck to modify it) but I would like to hear you comment about that (or tell me where I should look for a debate about that).
Many people here (including myself) do play 3 recruiters. I think there are pros and cons. I originally switched to a third tutor because it did speed up the deck. So if you are playing against a lot of other fast decks (combo, burn) tutor was much faster than recruiter to get what you need. If your meta is slower, recruiters are nice because they are card advantage vs card disadvantage. Sometimes a strategy exists to actually just string recruiters into what else you need just to be able to beat down with dorks. Personally I still think three is enough as I agree they feel a little slow and I've cut down a little on my recruiter targets. Many people on here would never consider playing less than four still as it's the glue that pulls the deck together. Also, if you are playing a lot of targets (painter, welder, jaya, magus, revoker, containment priest, canonist, etc etc) recruiters always make you you can get what you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk
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Thank you for the reply. As I said, I am no expert with the deck but I can still give my opinion :tongue:
I would not consider Recruiter as generating a strong card advantage: it's just a 1/1 in the end (but still better than nothing, I agree) which can chump block (probably the best use). We don't even play equipments in standard lists to abuse it. What I find strong, is to shuffle the deck when you have SDT on the board and a moon stopping the fetches (+ the tutor effect of course). But that costs already a lot of mana.
I find overrated the: "it's the glue of the deck". It does not fetch grindstone and the target can cost 3 as well... which makes it VERY slow.
I am not saying to play 0 though :) just that 4 is too much. And I don't see a lot of decks of the metagame against which I would like to chain recruiters or have 1 or 2 in my starting hand.
I only play 3 recruiters. When I decided to build the deck I only owned 3 recruiters so at first it was a cost thing. I decided to run a singleton chandra in it's place because it was affordable and also functioned as card advantage and I had seen lists with it before. Since playing the deck I decided recruiters are a bit slow, especially since I tend to lean on ensnaring bridge perhaps more than I should. Since I'm running the chandra (which has been very good for me) and daretti, I have so much digging anyways that I don't really want the 4th recruiter. Not to mention I feel more people than usual are running cabal therapy right now and that makes recruiter not as appealing at the moment. Ultimately I think its best to do what you're comfortable with. I've always put up satisfying results with three but playing four is definitely not incorrect. Playing less than three is probably bad though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk
Well, I will tell you that you would be surprise how effective stringing recruiters can be, especially in defense as they block while you are setting up. Remember that you are playing sol lands so turn two or even one recruiter is not that uncommon. It does fetch you magus and turn one recruiter into turn two magus is strong. I will agree with Mapson that therapies are a real problem for recruiter. I also play Chandra main (been back and forth on her) and she also creates card advantage. Realize again that because we are playing red and white we don't have good can trips to fix our hands so recruiters and e.Tutors are our most viable options to find out combo pieces. Top is also fine but you are then limited to the top of your deck. Tutor is very good but again card disadvantage. As you can see, plenty of people play 3 copies though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk
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Thank you for the replies Mapson and drude1. That's nice to hear the opinions of everyone.
I did not chain the Imperials yet. I trust you on that point, even though setting up with them means you can only search for painter. If Grindstone does not show up ... :(
Do you often choose the Recruiter into Magus of the Moon play? It looks a bit straightforward: "dear opponent, please, fetch your basics and prepare your swords...". I did not do this play yet (maybe I overlooked it though).
I understand that card disadvantage is not "nice" (talking about E. tutor) but our main game plans are Combo / Prison. Tell me if I am wrong, but the pure Control route is rare for us. Hence, card disadvantage is not THE problem. And the first thing I thought about when cutting 1 recruiter was "hey, I can play 1 extra E. Tutor to make Blood Moon turn 2 more often".
Thanks again for the interesting discussion. As a side note, I thought: "what about bottle cloister?". Of course it is not the thing to play if you want to counter something with your blasts, but in other cases it is a card advantage source which combo with Bridges and that you can E. Tutor. Same with: "what about isochron scepter?". Was it tried as a one slot before and rejected?
I've never heard of someone trying ISO-scepter before. It seems a little to cutesy and the only thing you are putting it on is a blast, which I certainly wouldn't count on. I guess you could put tutor on it or play bolts and out those under it. I don't see it being that good though. Bottled cloister is something you could play with but again seems clunky. It does have synergy with bridge but now you are looking for a two card combo that you can't search for with recruiters that isn't your two card combo. You are right in that this is not a control deck. It's a combo deck. And the sooner you can get your combo pieces together the better. I don't think I would ever search for a bottled cloister with my tutor.
Also, recruiter into magus is a very common play, especially in game one on turn four or so when they have 4 dual lands and you just shut them down. Also great against 12-post decks. I would suggest you get a bunch of games under your belt with a more stock list and see what works and how the games play out. This deck takes some getting used to. I think I literally went like 2-10 in my first 12 matches with the deck until I got more familiar with card interactions. Then you can play around with different cards that fit your style more.
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I often win chaining recruiters against miracles (the obvious deck against which a 1/1 that gets you another 1/1 is great), and sometimes against jund post side, because they tend to board in a lot of discard and extra removal spells, so that if they don't manage to find a goyf you can just start beating down.
Once again, than you for the quick replies.
@LeoCop 90, I will keep this line of play in mind against these decks.
@drude1
You are totally right. I will keep playing a standard list until I understand it quite well (which is always what I did in the past). But asking questions to more experienced players often accelerate the learning process, and from time to time, having a fresh look at things (from someone completely new to the deck concept) can bring new insights.
About Scepter, I guess it start to be interesting only if you are able to activate it the turn you play it, that is with a minimum of 4 mana in play (to avoid the card disadvange if scepter gets destroyed) and probably a painter on the board... that's start to be too many conditions. We go on the too cute side.
About Bottled Cloister, I know the card was played in BridgeWalker, whatever it was called, an the synergy with Bridge was really strong. Besides, we empty our hand quite fast anyway. But, the most important point I forgot to make is that it's insanely strong against discard strategies and not sensible to Decay. I would test the card if your metagame is full of discard.
About recruiter into Magus, I never faced a deck as slow as 12 posts yet (or a player aligning 4 duals in a row without noticing that I play moon effects). I'll continue playing to see how often this line of play win something for me.
TW
Mapson: when you state you lean on bridge more than you should then mention cutting recruiter (fetch SSG, discard handsize) for chandra (a 4 CMC double red planeswalker) I would say maybe stick with the recruiter. I cut down to 3 for a while but Jack, Seth, and playing the deck for 3 years straight convinced me otherwise.
Regarding magus, I have done turn 1 recruiter for magus in one match up only, 12 post. And it works. Well.
Quite often mid game you just need a beater, magus is just that. He helps continue the soft lock and doesn't eliminate options (i.e., Jaya, containment priest, and hedge-mage/vandal).
Regarding bottle cloister, I have seen it run. To good effect, particularly in a miracles match up. I've always been interested in running 1 uba mask for the ultimate lockout (via double welder).
I just started to build Painters deck.
which MU Firebolt is a keycard？
elves？ delver？ DRS？
I do not really understand his purpose.
All of the above. Don't forget death and taxes. Bob. Pyro mancer. Planeswalkers.
thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
but We really have enough time to flashback it?
4 is not too much?
It's 5. And no.
That being said sometimes I prefer lightning bolt. The. Again you can mill yourself EOT for a burn spell.
@mcbain
Uba Mask seems like an awesome idea, even without the double Welder lock. Maybe it's a bit narrow in term of match-up impacted though but I'll definitely give it a try when I understand the deck at a decent level.
Could you explain why you feel that 4 Imperial Recruiters is better? Saying that experienced people do it like that is good, but that does not help in the convincing process :tongue:
@grim confident and mcbain
I think by asking "4 is not too much", grim confident talked about the number of slots, not the casting cost.
So a big reason I run 4 is because when you have a moon effect out with a SDT you have no other way of shuffling other than using petal into tutor and personally I would rather keep petal in play since I run 3 welders.
EDIT: Also welder is our best card against abrupt decay MU. And recruiter is our only tutor for them.
Recruiter is the glue that holds the deck together. Play it for awhile and I'm 100% sure you'll agree. I'm literally never sorry to draw a Recruiter.
I've been sad to draw it on multiple occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysandros
I agree that isochron scepter and bottled cloister are questionable at best. Isochron scepter seems far worse and while I don’t think Bottled Cloister is the right choice I think it’s a better choice than Isochron scepter.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
I do want to question this statement though. Imperial Painter isn’t a true combo deck. There are plenty of elements to this deck which are not there to farther our combo plan but instead to buy time/turns much like a control deck would. I think this deck fits perfectly into box of combo or control, and if anything would fit more into the overlapping space in the middle of the Venn diagram. I do agree that R/W favors combo more than Mono Red.
I don't believe in "sacred cows" so I think entertaining the idea that Imperial Recruiter might not need to be a 4 of in this deck isn't inherently wrong, and I think there are times when drawing a Recruiter is worse than drawing a grindstone or something else. That said, it often can reset your top deck, or find a silver bullet (Revoker, Jaya Ballard, Magus, Welder, Spellskite, Vexing Shusher, Manic Vandal, Martyr of Ash, and a bunch of other situationally good cards.) and find half your win condition. It’s also a champ at chumping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysandros
Imperial Recruiter can sometimes be chained to supply you with a steady amount of chump blockers - which is always nice :D
That being said, look at the recruiter like this:
It serves as a tutor for half the combo - Check!
But playing 4 Painter's Servants AND 4 Recruiters, you're effectively playing 8 Painter's Servants. Cutting 1 Recruiter can be justified.
If you're playing a 4 Goblin Welder build (MonoR) like, I am, cutting 1 recruiter can be a valid choice.
But ultimately, I believe it's a meta game choice.
The meta I'm playing in currently is full of Elves and MUD decks, which leaves me to play 2 Manic Vandals... I prefer to essentially play 6 Manic Vandals after board against MUD, but to each it's own ;)
Either way - 3 or 4.... Do what feels right for you :)
Guys, sudden shock can replace firbolt in the sb?
For sure. Flashback is great but sometimes split second is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ORDAL
Sudden shock was great for the monastery swiftspears; plus has some use against infect.
Also D&T. They can't activate Mom in response to you blowing whatever creature of theirs is causing you problems. Most often it's phyrexian revoker on Grindstone..Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
Also good if anybody in your meta is running monastery mentor
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12397
Article on jacks recent barreling.
I run sudden shocks and love them. Right now I am splitting between those and pyrokinesis.
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Has anyone tested Rending Volley yet? I like the card a lot, kills most things with a painter in play (except for goyf or tasigur) and can't be countered.
Drude1: please elaborate. I've used both before and could likely see the argument for pyrokinesis right now but I'll wait for your arguments.
Totenbot: let's discuss this in relation to lightning bolt, sudden shock and fire bolt. I wouldn't push the 4 damage thing as its not as relevant.
It does not: hit players or Planeswalkers, does not hit many things in junk-jund decks, specifically DRS, doesn't get passed an active mother...
What it does do well: everything your 6-8 red blasts already do. Kills an equipped thalia mid combat with revoker in play on mother while he has a vial on 2 and you just countered his STP by welding painter back in for the bridge he just got under by minusing his guy! Oh wait. Let's just stick with the ones I mentioned
(sorry, don't mean to troll. Just bored at work for a minute).
Although with an active painter it does get better. Like you said.
All things I was kind of thinking about, but yeah, I mostly agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain