All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat

1) the poll on the top of the page was which cards are the most bannable. Just because a card is most bannable doesn't mean it should be banned.
But this is what you are going to get from people if you as for a poll. These kinds of results too.

2) the poll should be administered in the legacy GPs and should be voted on by those playing in the GP. That way only those who are serious about legacy get to vote.
And for those of us who live in places where there is no GP's can what? Die in a fire? If you want to give the community a say, why exclude those who live in smaller countries and do not have the income to fly?

3) if Brainstorm is banned it is for the greater good because it would only be banned if the majority wanted it to be banned.
But you would still take your toys and go home regardless of the reason yes?

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I don't know about the details but some voting process that is inclusive enough to get a good view of what the majority wants, but exclusive enough to only allow those serious about legacy to vote. Maybe add polls to other legacy tournaments as well.
Even having the only voters be those who can go to the GP is better than having no voting system at all. It's not like you have any say in what happens to the format right now, so I don't get your argument.
About your Brainstorm being banned argument, there is probably less of a chance of Brainstorm getting banned by the community than there is of it getting banned by WotC.
Your poll on top of page argument is also irrelevant because what you are trying to say is, look how stupid the community can be. Well, stupid is an opinion. Just because you thought those poll results were stupid doesn't mean the majority decision shouldn't be valued. Community>1 person

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Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat

I don't know about the details but some voting process that is inclusive enough to get a good view of what the majority wants, but exclusive enough to only allow those serious about legacy to vote. Maybe add polls to other legacy tournaments as well.
So do you have to fill out a questionnaire before you vote to make sure you know Legacy and are not just there with your friend because this event is local? What's the cut off for proving your into Legacy? You have to quote the 58 standard main deck cards in RUG?

Even having the only voters be those who can go to the GP is better than having no voting system at all. It's not like you have any say in what happens to the format right now, so I don't get your argument.
You remove the chance for people like myself, who live in Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, China.... other such locations and do not have the ability to travel be it because or funds, work or family needs. Suddenly you have some of the most invested legacy players (So those who you would want to vote if that is what you are really seeking) who are totally removed from the process.

About your Brainstorm being banned argument, there is probably less of a chance of Brainstorm getting banned by the community than there is of it getting banned by WotC.
Personally, I beg to differ. I think if you just have a look at this site alone you will see that the argument is not as one sided as some think it is. If you gave the choice, you would liekly see it gone, even if just for a year to see the outcome.

About your poll on top of the page argument, that poll clearly asks what is the most bannable cars not what card you want banned so that argument is also irrelevant.
I am not saying that you are going to get that exact poll, I am saying that is the kind of thing you will get where "What do I not like today" will be up in lights for people to vote on. Also I do not think that the argument is irrelevant, it shows quite well the laugahabilty of the past views of others. Lastly, are you really going to tell me "What is the most bannable card in Legacy?" is in any way diffrent to "What would you vote to see banned out of Legacy?" Are you really going to tell me that those are so different in scope as to be irrelevant? If so you are totally out of your mind.

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Idk it's either the Grand Prix idea or something like if you get a winning record in a legacy league some reasonable number of times you get to vote. Oh what? You can't afford a computer is that what I hear?:smile:
Also I suggest you read the last paragraph of my last post as you responded to it before the edited version came out.
Edit: by winning record I mean 3-2 or better

Not everyone is silly enough to play online.

So if you play Miracles and go 4-1 on MODO/GP consistently, you should be allowed to decide if Goblin Recruiter comes back or if Top should be banned? :eyebrow:

Meanwhile the Goblins player who ends up with a 1-4 record -losing to everything but Miracles- gets no say. Come on man.

Anyway, there will be no changes. There's no need for a change, either for 'tournament diversity' or because the meta needs it as there was with DTT+Cruise. WotC won't act unless they have to.

So in each voting period which would last as long as the time between current banlist changes, if you got 3-2 or better at least 2 times in leagues you get to vote. So no, the miracles player won't be the only one voting.

Edit: I am not sure on the logistics of it all. But I am pretty sure that there is a good way to make this reasonable idea happen.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

Idk earthcraft doesnt even looks so good in enchantres. Sure you can tap your agothinas for an enchanted basic... But its also a do nothing enchatnment in a list with only 4 creatures... I wouldnt play it!

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Assuming Enchantress can only be played with 4 creatures is your first mistake.

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Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat

So in each voting period which would last as long as the time between current banlist changes, if you got 3-2 or better at least 2 times in leagues you get to vote. So no, the miracles player won't be the only one voting.

Edit: I am not sure on the logistics of it all. But I am pretty sure that there is a good way to make this reasonable idea happen.

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You're still disenfranchising a section of the player base that chooses not to play online. Also, online metagame is different than in paper, due to cost/supply differences (and some fringe cards don't exist online at all...Field of Dreams and Burnt Offering are cards I've seen discussed on this forum). If a Lantern deck or Burning Wish/Sacrifice-based combo deck surfaces and becomes playable, those decks won't be optimally playable online.

Player voting might be good in theory, but the logistics are shit to figure out. Player outrage is the only way to force WOTC's hand, but the decision has to be near-unanimous for them to listen, and no one is raging for unbans.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Assuming Enchantress can only be played with 4 creatures is your first mistake.

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Given that most of the Enchantment Creatures either suck (Archetypes, Bestow critters, most Constellation dudes) or are anti-synergistic with the deck (Eidolon of Rhetoric, Spirit of the Labyrinth) it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for more creatures besides Argothian to power Earthcraft.

Yeah, some of the Black Enchantment Creatures aren't bad (Brain Maggot and Doomwake Giant are immediate standouts while Pharika, God of Affliction and Nyx Weaver are interesting, if a little underpowered), but then you've got the problem of trying to run a three color deck that desperately needs a high Basic count to enable Earthcraft.

And that's not really a situation I want to be in.

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Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat

If they ban Brainstorm I'm selling out.

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I'll take all the card for ONE copper piece plus shipping. :tongue:

But most likely, the bans won't be in Legacy.

We may get an unban or two.

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Originally Posted by Jamaican Zombie Legend

Given that most of the Enchantment Creatures either suck (Archetypes, Bestow critters, most Constellation dudes) or are anti-synergistic with the deck (Eidolon of Rhetoric, Spirit of the Labyrinth) it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for more creatures besides Argothian to power Earthcraft.

Yeah, some of the Black Enchantment Creatures aren't bad (Brain Maggot and Doomwake Giant are immediate standouts while Pharika, God of Affliction and Nyx Weaver are interesting, if a little underpowered), but then you've got the problem of trying to run a three color deck that desperately needs a high Basic count to enable Earthcraft.

And that's not really a situation I want to be in.

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You left out the actual (assumed) card in question, Eidolon of Blossoms. That's a no-brainer nowadays. Also, what this even has to do with Earthcraft? You want to play Squirrel's Nest with that, not some random creatures.

B&R changes shouldn't be put to the vote. Magic players, on the whole, know fuck all about balancing a format. They seem to know only salt.

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Originally Posted by barcode

B&R changes shouldn't be put to the vote. Magic players, on the whole, know fuck all about balancing a format. They seem to know only salt.

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Preach!

We've seen a couple of people try and argue for a Balance unban in this thread, says it all.

In their defence, very few have been seriously pushing it.

Will the announcement be today, or next Monday?

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Originally Posted by H

Will the announcement be today, or next Monday?

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Today, in about 2 hours time.

Expect (4Head):

Modern: Inkmoth and Death Shadow banned. Eldrazi are too new and these cards push eldrazi out of the format.

Legacy: Legacy has been dominated by undercosted spells for too long, cantrips being the most obvious one, brainstorm being the posterchild. Mental Misstep is unbanned.

Vintage: Golem gone, because Pros don't let other people play shops.

Today.

Edit.

Well if they take my Golem, I get to go on a fully funded holiday.

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Originally Posted by H

Will the announcement be today, or next Monday?

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It is today. If I am not wrong, it's at 5pm CET which is 11 am EST.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Today.

Edit.

Well if they take my Golem, I get to go on a fully funded holiday.

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Well, I'll be honest, I'm not going to cry for Golem or Workshop. Not that I think it would be a good idea, I actually think it'd be somewhat terrible, even if I really truly do hate playing against Shops. I think Golem would just be a terrible restriction actually, where Workshop would be horrendous and a real disservice to the whole format.

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

Legacy: Legacy has been dominated by undercosted spells for too long, cantrips being the most obvious one, brainstorm being the posterchild. Mental Misstep is unbanned.

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Well, that would make it perfectly safe to unban Mind's Desire too. Or Sol Ring. Lol.