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G1 is a really tough matchup. If you board in Leyline/shusher you should be able to put out more threats than they can handle. It's the best solution I've thought of, though it's certainly still a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrix
If you have a lot of team america in your meta, run fewer fetchlands.
its not only force of will i am worried.its the snuff outs and go for the throats along with discard the attack us pretty hard.
Thats why i ask if autumn's veil are a good choice against both of fows and destruction cards
If you know for certain you're going to be expecting a lot of Hymn to Tourach/Snuff Out, then consider Compost. This card alone recovers you from all their disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrix
Couple questions from a noobie. Why is emrakul getting dropped from the 75? In recent non storm lists I haven't seen much potential to win the turn you go off (no emrakul) other than perhaps joraga warcallers kicked 20 times to attack with the one or two 20/20 elves. Those who ARE using mirror entities or joraga to win their combo turn: I was confused to the lack of a vexing shusher to stop a counter? Thanks in advance for the help!
@ Atikin
I don't see why you would need shusher in warcaller/mirror entity build more than in emrakul/grapeshot build (I think shusher is worth putting in SB in all cases but not more in one build than in another)
as for emrakul being dropped for mirror entity, mirror entity allow you to go infinite mana and untap all your creature (with wirewood symbiote) I personnaly don't like mirror entity as a win-con, but it's my opinion
Mirror Entity is neat, but I don't like the splashes and Emrakul is just instant win, so yeah. I wouldn't drop him. Maybe if there were less Wasteland/Stifles and more infinite life in the metagame...
When im saying shusher in one build vs the other its that without emrakul your win con is counterable, and you might be forced to pass the turn if that happens. For my win con im currently using emrakul in the sideboard with 2 wishes main incase one gets countered. Ive never had problems with him and dont see the need for mirror entity. He opens us up wasteland weakness and is extremely awkward on his own without a wirewood symbiote.
Moreso than that, it's a complicated loop to work out and demonstrate. I much prefer just cycling through untap effects on a Priest to make the absurd mana pool, then Wish/Cast Emrakul. In the long run, it's much less taxing on the brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atikin
Although I guess that could be used as an arguement, itll boil down to same "make-symbiote-elf-then-bounce-itself" type of thing. And when you go through the loop once you dont have to keep doing it, you can just say you are repeating it "x" times. Irregardless though, emrakul is much easier to win with. Simply have a quirion and a wirewood symbiote, or any combination of the two, and generating 15 mana for emrakul isnt all that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
I just built and been playtesting this deck and it's just nuts. My opponent would counter Glimpse thinking that's game for me, while I beat down with a huge and growing army. Also when I would go off with Glimpse and fizzle by not being able to draw/cast Emrakul, I look down at the board and see the dozen of Elves.
What list are you testing with? There are quite a few floating around.
On a side note, I move that the deck hereafter be referred to as "Lucky Charms", keeping alive the proud tradition of sugary breakfast cereal names for combo decks.
Why Lucky Charms? I'm sure there is a better cereal to name Elves after. Rice Crispies has 3 Elves on the box, maybe that is better?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Eh, doing some MU's against myself with this and Merfolk. So far, IBA's list has been doing well, it holds up to disruption decently and has more bombs to draw into. Finishing with Ezuri is always a play I consider, it's easy to pull off vs. 'Folk.
The one that top4'd at SCG Atlanta, my friend didn't believe me Elves was a good deck so since we had all the cards I put it together. What version do you play?Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
I'm testing with a variety of lists. IBA's list is slower, but more resilient. It almost plays like Aggro Elves at times (it has a fairly strong aggro plan compared to other lists). On the other side I see Matt Elias's list, which is more reliant on Glimpse, but is faster by about a turn. I've done little testing with k2's list, which may be to my detriment.
@bakofried: Are you finding Ezuri better than Kamahl?
Hm. Persuasive. The angle with Lucky Charms was the little green men. I feel like naming the deck Rice Crispies would be setting yourself up for karmic Firespout-Snap-Crackle-Pop jokes though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
I like Ezuri more for a few reasons. They're probably obvious, but I'll do a little recap.
1.) He's an elf. He taps with Heritage, gets buffed by Archdruid, saved by Symbiote, and adds more mana to the pool for Archdruids and priests.
2.) He's easier to cast if you take the beatdown role. He's also easier to find with Zenith.
3.) His abilities are just as relevant. Yes, you can blow up their lands with Kamahl. But I really don't see anyone walking into that. If you can support this with some situations, IBA, I may be more open on this front.
4.) He isn't dead while comboing out, yet he's still a finisher. If you untap with Ezuri, an untap effect, and a priest effect, you're in awesome shape. Not only would you have had mana to save your dudes from spout (global pump in response) but you know have a small (or large) horde of angry tramplers.
5.) The benefits of Kamahl seem trivial. His [G] ability seems better only when used as a sweeper deterrent, he costs far more, and he doesn't have the saving grace of being an elf. I'm in favor of Ezuri on this one.
Also, if anyone would take a look at the Chancellor for green, I would be appreciated. His opening ability is add [G] to your mana pool on the first turn, and he's a decent sized body (though horribly inefficient). He may blow, but I'd like to hear some opinions.
It's not a question of tricking people into Wrathing their own lands; it's a matter of putting them into a position where they have no choice. Wrath answers a board of some elves, a Priest and an Ezuri; it's not an answer to a Kamahl board, but the opponent may not have any other way out.
I've also won some games where he was able to pump a Symbiote or animate and attack with some lands for lethal, where I didn't have enough elves on board to tap for Overrun mana and kill them.
But I'm not sure that these scenarios trump Ezuri; both are fairly bad going off, but Kamahl's certainly a lot worse. Still, Ezuri is just a body that does nothing in this case, and is mana neutral even with two Nettles. And the functional difference in casting cost to be useful isn't really 3 vs. 6; it's 8 vs. 11. And Kamahl offers some extra utility for that increase.
I definitely wouldn't play Kamahl without Wrath/Damnation in the metagame. With the bury-sweepers in play, it still might be sub optimal, I'm not really sure.
In my experience a combination of Symbiotes and Visionaries/Messengers/Glimpse and just outdrawing the opponent is usually enough to overcome sweepers. Decks packing Wrath (and a lesser degree Firespout) also typically don't have any ways to put pressure on you outside of Planeswalkers, leaving you with plenty of time to set up and nibble at their life total without overcommitting the board.