Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
The point of Spy vs griselbrand is that if you are playing spy, you had more mainboard space ( not using dryad arbors and one less flayer of the hatebound) but has less sideboard space ( for lands and anti hate), and griselbrand is the opposite, less mainboard space (using arbors) but you have more space to tailor your sideboard with anti hate as you usually don't have any lands on the sideboard.
IMO there's no right or wrong choice in this departament , there's only the choice that fits your playstyle :laugh:
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Txisvurger
Thanks a lot Graf =)
Up to this point I failed to see the point of dryad arbor. Am I right to assume it plays a similar role to the narcomoebas (but this one comes from your hand) once you have started dredging to add fuel for DRs?
Also, a quick question, I don't seem to be seeing as much verdant catacombs in the SBs. Could someone clarify what they were used for? (I must also say I cannot afford them, so using them in my SB is out of the question unfortunately).
MD Arbors are also quite useful with SB Bloodghasts, that's +2 bodies for Dread Return on turn two.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
MD Arbors are also quite useful with SB Bloodghasts, that's +2 bodies for Dread Return on turn two.
Yep! Additionally they help against taxing effects.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Thanks everyone for the responses, I have a much more clear idea now.
I'm thinking on going the Griselbrand way, I like the dude, he is a 7/7 flying badass and he is not as high variance as the spy. I guess I'll be using ghasta in my SB, do you think I'd also need dakmor salvages for more ocnsistency? For the rest I guess I'll just pack leylines (void and/or sanctity and maybe an ashen rider).
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Txisvurger
Thanks everyone for the responses, I have a much more clear idea now.
I'm thinking on going the Griselbrand way, I like the dude, he is a 7/7 flying badass and he is not as high variance as the spy. I guess I'll be using ghasta in my SB, do you think I'd also need dakmor salvages for more ocnsistency? For the rest I guess I'll just pack leylines (void and/or sanctity and maybe an ashen rider).
I think you are right, sometimes consistence is the way to go, I allways played Griselbrand, he can close games on his own even without drawing 7 cards
Also can someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I reanimate a flayer of the hatebound, and then I reanimate griselbrand do I gain 7 life for his lifelink ability?
I think that's true but never asked anyone.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vlad Teppes
I think you are right, sometimes consistence is the way to go, I allways played Griselbrand, he can close games on his own even without drawing 7 cards
Also can someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I reanimate a flayer of the hatebound, and then I reanimate griselbrand do I gain 7 life for his lifelink ability?
I think that's true but never asked anyone.
Yes, you get 7 life since Flayer of the Hatebound reads:
...that creature (that enters the battlefield from the graveyard) deals damage equal to its power...
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Graf_Caligula
Yes, you get 7 life since
Flayer of the Hatebound reads:
...that creature (that enters the battlefield from the graveyard) deals damage equal to its power...
thz for straighting that out mate!
and now we get one more reason to run Big G instead of the spy!
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Mmh, it is a corner case. I have never used the life link that way. I think in one of thousand games you might really get to use it..
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Graf_Caligula
Mmh, it is a corner case. I have never used the life link that way. I think in one of thousand games you might really get to use it..
yeah it's situational at best, but it might be usefull should it happen, and griselbrand is better than balustrade spy, its a 7/7 lifelinker , even without the draw 7 effect, its a powerfull creature if a ability to close games on his own. and the lifeloss is negligible since you are winning that turn anyway
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Or you could Dread Return two Flayer's in the same turn and kill your opponent right there without even needing to attack.
I've done exactly that with the 3 G-man, 2 Flayer setup.
But that is kinda unlikely, it's rare you can get two DR's cast in the same turn to actually resolve.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hollywood
I'm considering this list and replacing the sphinxes with Griselbrand. Any recommendations?
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
I'm considering this list and replacing the sphinxes with Griselbrand. Any recommendations?
Seems pretty standart, had you playtested with it?
if yes, it's a good list, the bloodghast package gives you more creatures for dread return and cabal therapy and is good at grinding games.
If no, the list is a good start, but you might wanna to maindeck dryad arbor, it will give you more sideboard room to manuever against GY hate, and without salvage, bloodghast is sub par at best, it might be a good idea to maindeck more DR targets (chancellor of the annex really shines here!) or more removal.
but it's a great list. Good luck with the deck!
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
I'm considering this list and replacing the sphinxes with Griselbrand. Any recommendations?
Looks good.
This list looks like it's concentrating on the grind plan a bit more than the combo plan, but it also looks a little bit fearless, given the small amount of green sources and answers in the side.
I wouldn't worry about, test the sucker out > see how much hate you encounter, see what works.
You can always tweak it after that.
I'm not sure Chancellor of the Annex is a great addition here.
Just a thought;
I wanna like the ghast/dakmor. When I tested it I ended up liking 4 Dryad Arbor in the main, 4 Dread Return with 3 Griselbrand.
Without the DR combo being the primary focus, ghast loses a bit I think > Anyone else agree/disagree here?
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
I like SBing Ghast but I don't like MDing Ghast because that's 4+ cards in your MD that do not deal with Deathrite Shaman and you do not need that much business vs anything MD because nobody plays mass graveyard removal MD (you lose if RIP resolves anyway)
I'm kind of more lenient with Dryad Arbor MD, mainly because it has excellent synergy with the SB Ghast/Salvage plan that you really want to play vs any Snap/Surgical deck or maybe RUG.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
CHeers.
I have another question too.
How do you fella's play against Omnitell?
They're not as fast as Sneak/SHow, but I've been finding lately that the grind plan (been using 8 G sources and 8 enchantment killers) hasn't been doing very well. So I've switched back to game1 decklist and just tried to outrace them and hopefully get past their counter. Annex helps here too.
My results so far are mixed....
What are your thoughts?
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slave
CHeers.
I have another question too.
How do you fella's play against Omnitell?
They're not as fast as Sneak/SHow, but I've been finding lately that the grind plan (been using 8 G sources and 8 enchantment killers) hasn't been doing very well. So I've switched back to game1 decklist and just tried to outrace them and hopefully get past their counter. Annex helps here too.
My results so far are mixed....
What are your thoughts?
the combo matchup in general is not good for manaless, we excel at fighting control and non maverick aggro (jund and nicfit are hard too, but manageable with a good hand)
The best you can do is the use of a surprise bomb such as a Ashen Rider or Kederekt Leviathan when they cast show and tell, but that is too much circumstantial ( maybe one in each ten games? can't say for sure)
IMO better leave the race to the LED dredge who excel's at fighting slower combo decks (even with LED the show and tell MU is tricky), but you don't auto scoop at show and tell, you only need a good hand (bomb+ acceleration + dredger but that hand is hard to get because we don't mulligan!).
Hopefully that helped!
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slave
CHeers.
I have another question too.
How do you fella's play against Omnitell?
They're not as fast as Sneak/SHow, but I've been finding lately that the grind plan (been using 8 G sources and 8 enchantment killers) hasn't been doing very well. So I've switched back to game1 decklist and just tried to outrace them and hopefully get past their counter. Annex helps here too.
My results so far are mixed....
What are your thoughts?
Show&Tell combo decks are the entire reason I championed Unmask in Manaless Dredge, there are a category of combo decks in Legacy that all win from T3+, High Tide, Show&Tell, Ad Nauseam etc. where I find that disruption, not acceleration, is the only way to race them. As far as OmniShow is concerned, 4 Angel of Despair in the SB is also a legitimate metagame decision.
It's also the reason I think Angel of Despair >>> Flayer of the Hatebound.
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Final Fortune
Show&Tell combo decks are the entire reason I championed Unmask in Manaless Dredge, there are a category of combo decks in Legacy that all win from T3+, High Tide, Show&Tell, Ad Nauseam etc. where I find that disruption, not acceleration, is the only way to race them. As far as OmniShow is concerned, 4 Angel of Despair in the SB is also a legitimate metagame decision.
It's also the reason I think Angel of Despair >>> Flayer of the Hatebound.
Say Hello to Trickbind. But at least the S'n'T-Player needs another Card for his Combo (Cunning Wish) which may buy you the needed time. ;)
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Why is Angel of Despair better than Ashen Rider? Honest question
Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
Why is Angel of Despair better than Ashen Rider? Honest question
I think nobody said this. ;) Maybe Final Fortune wasn't aware of that card.
