[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

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Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus

I have to ask... why did people ever stop playing with Smallpox? This card is so amazing.

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I'm not sure. The reason I stopped playing it, becuase it was very hard for me to take real advantage out of it.

Your opponent has to have one more of the different cards( lands/creatures cards in hand) for it to be card advantage. On top of that you don't want to play the card when your only creature is Confidant or Specter. it's also the first card that looses it's power over the course of the game. Sinkhole and Vindicate and the targeted discard can be reasonable late game for shutting of colors or stopping that StP your opponent was holding for your creature. Hymn and Small Pox both loose their power quite fast, but I find Hymn better in the early game.

This was the reason for me to cut for StP( especially with the printing of Goyf), but there might be other reasons.

BB

Simple question for the players with 4x Dark Ritual - aren't 3 black mana too much?

I've got problem, because very often I have only Hymn, or only Confidant, or only sinkhole, or ... so Dark Ritual = 1 mana burn.

I have a 3 color version (BGW), so i'm thinking about mox diamonds instead of rituals. What do you think?

i never liked mox diamond in this deck because then you had to play 24 land, so you dont have that many slots anymore for other things.

i dont know if you play deed but if you do, then mox i even worser i think.

about the mana burn from ritual, most of the time it doesnt matter because a t1 hymn or confidant is still a hard play.

besides my answer i want to put a new list i'm working on here:

its not totally deadguy ale anymore but it works quite good,

4xserra avenger
4xdark confidant
4xspectral lynx(first this card was shade, but with all the white, shade was not good enough so i putted this card in, hes good with meekstone and against our big green friend)
4xbitterblossom

4xswords to plowshares

4xmeekstone
3xjitte(this card rocks with stone, avenger and blossom)

4xthougthsezie
4xduress(no hymn, because i didnt get constant dubbel b on t2)
4xvindicate

4xscrubland
1xgodless shrine
3xheath
3xmire
3xswamp
3xplains
4xwasteland

sideboard is meta dependend.

as you can see this list is based around meekstone, but its not meekstone dependent. so you can win very good without:laugh:

Um...nice list, I must say...but whats it do against Goblins? I mean, your Meekstone doesn't work, so its dead cards. Same with Duress. Thats 8 dead cards, and a generally averagely-speedy-to-slow gameplan - does not make for a good Gobbos match, if you ask me... (though then again we never had a good Goblins match XD)

yes, goblins is a irritating mu.

in my side there are engineered plague against it and i have jitte in the main+removal. thats the only thing i can do against it i think with my list.

but there are almost no goblins in my meta so thats not a problem.

i think if you expect goblins, you should run another build or build your sideboard to beat it.

i builded the deck especially for an aggro-control/combo meta. my meta is fulled with combo/aggro-control and most of the time control decks too. control decks like landstill are very hard too, but bitterblossom and lynx are very good here+vindicate, discard, etc.

Thank you for including Bitterblossom in your list. I think this card is pretty amazing in a Dead Guy Ale variant. If more people will simply test it out, they will find very similar results to the ones that I found.

Bitterblossom could be more broken in Deadguy, then the other decks in the format that I tested it in.

Let me know how your thoughts about the inclusion of the card.

Later

I'm testing it out, but I also play Thoughtseize and Tombstalker and Confidant, so it's really, really scary for me (especially when I don't play Top with the Tombstalker, already)...it seems nice for its ability to stall Thresh, tough (though it seems it would take at least 7 turns to win on its own...

bitterblossom is really amazing in this deck. i tested it in different builds and in every build it rocked.

that meekstone build is a testbuild, but my other build is on the previous page and then the last build.

it includes, stalker, bob, blosom, seize and fetch, but i never had trouble with this. top+bob is almost no pain anymore and youoften dont cast more than 2 seize in a game.

about bitterblossom, i played once against ugr thresh which i had to mull to 4
i was on the play and i had, fetch, land, ritual, blossom. so i putted a t1 blossom into play and he had no fow. thats why i won that game, only becasue of blossom.

so, yes i think blossom is a good card for making this deck viable again in the meta.

Could we have a discussion about the Thresh Matchup? What tools does everyone use against it? Any problems with Tarmogoyf? (personally I do find it to be a big problem, want to see what everyone thinks) What do we sideboard?

Personally I run 4 CoP Green in the SB, I would run Story Circles but they cost 1WW and W to activate each time. Though, are CoP Green to narrow?

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Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG

Any problems with Tarmogoyf? (personally I do find it to be a big problem, want to see what everyone thinks)

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4x StP
4x Vindicate
4x Bitterblossom
4x Spectral Lynx
4x Thoughtseize

I don't believe, that Goyf is a problem... :)

Well, that is if you do run Spectral Lynx (which I personally insist doesn't do enough - it doesn't beat, it doesn't disrupt, it doesn't draw cards, it dies to StP, and what's it do? Well, it saves you about 4 life a turn for B, and...............thats about it. I don't run Jitte, so I don't see a reason to run Lynx, and running Jitte and more creatures seems to make this a different deck altogether...)

Actually, I find Bitterblossom to be part of the problem. I think running 4 Bob, 2 Stalker, 7 Fetches, 4 Thoughtseize, and on top of that, Bitterblossom, to be losing me too much life - and Bitterblossom, to me, acts as a conditional Fog every turn for 1 life; thats not what I want of a card and 2 mana - I'd rather have Smother for 1B, or Damnation for 2BB, which actually solves the problem.

i think goyf can be a problem sometimes but in my meekstone list hes not a problem, meekstone, stp, jitte+avener, blossom, lynx and the other stuff.

but in my normal list, goyf can be a bigger problem. i think explosives and stalker fized out threshold mu the most. explosives can be irritating for you too sometimes but most of the time he's doing a insane good job for me. i would recommend at least 2 mainboard if your build is more controllish than aggro.

you can put dystopia, chainer's edict or something like that in the side too against it. i played with edict for a while and it worked really great to me.

Problem though is that Meekstone, sadly, isn't exactly viable or the best in most matchups; and even if it is useful against Thresh you have to take one swing from Tarmogoyf before it gets locked down. And thats one swing for EACH creature he plays; and coupled with the life loss we play, thats often scary enough.

EExplosives has the odd problem of making Goyfs bigger. This normally wouldn't be a problem cos the Goyf would be dead, but it also often means that the next one that comes down is bigger than your Tombstalker -- and that is really scary.

Chainer's Edict and Dystopia look good, but certainly you can only side so much removal and pray to draw it and not get it countered; and Thresh is waaaaay more consistent than Deadguy, with its cantrips et all - and personally I find that to be a major problem.


As a sidenote, what's everyone think of Exalted Angel? By turn 5 I could be turning it sideways, and it races (and thrashes ) Goyf...but it costs WW. I'm thinking, maybe one or two to share Tombstalker's slot?

Sorry to double post, though my last post was before yesterday already, but I thought I'd propose an idea I proposed many, many pages back, about running an Enlightened Tutor toolbox in the board, with Jitte, Engineered Plague, Dystopia, Needle, Scroll, and other enchanty and artifacty goodness to tutor up, thus increasing the likelihood of drawing a bomb in each matchup (and there *are* loads of good Artifacts or Enchantments waiting to be loaded up on). Besides, we're playing most of those cards (Needle, Plague, Dystopia, for example) already, no?

Good, good, I see some are messing with Bitterblossom, anf from the little time I have fooled around with it in a "Pikula" type of deck, I have greatly appreciated it's "get a free 'perm' a turn" ability, and even with as strong as Thoughtseize is, I'v always felt, and seen the combined life loss from fetchs, Bob, and Blossom to be a little too much for my comfort. Though getting back to this deck with the inclusion of some of the newer stuff like Bitterblossom , and that hunk of a demon Tombstalker, has piqued my interest in the deck once again. For anyone curios/still interested in "Dead Guy", I'll show what I'v been dicking around with, so I'll throw it up down there for ya, it doesn't have anything crazy in it, as I'v been pretty straight forward in my build. Though you may want to know, most "testing" and playing has been on MWS, which I'm sure you all know is a hilarious piece of software.

Pikula Thing I'v Been Using

Lands
2 Tainted Field (I hate you so damn much Tainted Field)
4 Bloodstained Mire (FETCH!)
4 Scrubland (RUBA DUB DUB!)
9 Swamp (Swamp)
4 Wasteland (Chicago)

Creatures/Kill
4 Bitterblossom (Good shit)
4 Dark Confidant (Good shit)
3 Nantuko Shade (This NEEDS to be 4, still, works)
2 Tombstalker (2 seems just right, for me at least)

The Other Stuff
4 Duress (Pretty good shit)
4 Hymn to Tourach (Good shit)
4 Sinkhole (Good shit)
4 Vindicate (If I could run 8, I would)
4 Swords to Plowshares (Good Shit)
4 Dark Ritual (Good shit)

Sideboard
1-2 Open Slots/moar kill/yard hates/whatever ya need
3 Pithing Needle (Good shit)
2-3 Perish (Carry over from past build, need replacing)
4 Engineered Plague (Good Shit)
4 Leyline of the Void (Really Good shit)


And that's all for now folks!

I'm curious to ask a few things:

1) As I asked in my earlier posts, whats everyone think about Exalted Angel?

2) And Enlightened Tutor?

On a newer issue, how's everyone play Sinkholes? I personally find them to slow and clunky, especially when on the draw (why pay BB to blow up land when you could be doing something else, like playing a threat, neutralizing a threat, or even Exalted Angel or Jitte (if you play them), no?

About Thoughtseize: If you ask me, you're going to be losing a hell lot of more life from Tarmogoyf than if you take it out of their hands straight. Still, I've found lifeloss to be a problem, but I'd suggest Exalteds instead of Blossoms, rather than cut Thoughtseize.

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Originally Posted by Bando

4 Vindicate (If I could run 8, I would)

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You almost can by running Oblivion Rings.
They are something to try.

Why would you run 8, though? They're 3cc. That makes them clunky. Sure, they're utility, but they're slow, don't come down early enough, and all. I'm pretty sure you don't want to end up with 2 or more Vindicates in your opening hand instead of juice such as Thoughtseize or Hymn...

EDIT: Oh, wait, it says non-land. That just made it worse (not like that mattered, though, card was bad enough as it stands).

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Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG

Why would you run 8, though? They're 3cc. That makes them clunky. Sure, they're utility, but they're slow, don't come down early enough, and all. I'm pretty sure you don't want to end up with 2 or more Vindicates in your opening hand instead of juice such as Thoughtseize or Hymn...

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OK, maybe 6, but they be some damn good eats. How could you not want a few more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG

1) As I asked in my earlier posts, whats everyone think about Exalted Angel?

2) And Enlightened Tutor?

On a newer issue, how's everyone play Sinkholes? I personally find them to slow and clunky, especially when on the draw (why pay BB to blow up land when you could be doing something else, like playing a threat, neutralizing a threat, or even Exalted Angel or Jitte (if you play them), no?

About Thoughtseize: If you ask me, you're going to be losing a hell lot of more life from Tarmogoyf than if you take it out of their hands straight. Still, I've found lifeloss to be a problem, but I'd suggest Exalteds instead of Blossoms, rather than cut Thoughtseize.

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Oh, Exalted Angel, I was steering clear of it, simply due to it's cc was a chunky 6, and that and Confidant I thought would be bad, then when I made a list, I threw in, of all things with a big cc, Tombstalker for some insane reason, I feel like I'm going senile. As far as playing with the Angel, I have yet to try it.

As for Enlightened Tutor, I saw your mention of it, but ignored it :tongue: I'v been messing with the deck more, and I'm testing multiple things out, but as for me personally, I just do not want to bother with it, still stuck in the old Confidant mindset, but I'll give it a go, eventually , to see how it plays out. At least I hope to.

As for your disgust with sinkhole, I actually had the bright idea to cut them out sometime today, along with Tombstalker and dropping to 22 land. Sinkhole for me usually does 2 things, delay the inevitable drop of something annoying, or literally nothing. I found I wanted just more of the other stuff, but have not been able to settle on anything just yet. As for Thoughtseize, I've been using it and mixing with duress, someyime just using 4, so I've been alternating between 4-6 1cc Discard Spells main, I haven't hit anything concrete for myself yet though, but the life loss hasn't been so bad, and like you said, it has been quite nice, nailing threats you might not have the removal for early on.

Some things I am very sure about, are, at least the inclusion of a couple of Jittes if you are using Bitterblossom, as an equipped and unchecked 1/1 can cause quite a bit of trouble for the other player. From my limited and absolutely wonky testing, I defiantly recommend including Jitte if you so happen to like Bitterblossom. Another card I had some room for that can be of some pretty fine service, has been the inclusion of a couple of Tops in my main. These things work very nicely with Confidant, for obvious reasons, and I might, no, I will up the fetchland count to make better use of them.

So, after all that, whose up for a list? No one? Not even Benie Bederios? Well fine, but I'm posting it anyway!

What I've been using as of Late

Land
8 Swamp (Swamp)
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted delta
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland

Creatures/Kill
4 Bitterblossom
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
0-2 Jotun Grunt

All That Other Shit
3-4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual

As for this list, I was/have been alternating between one with 6 1cc Discard in the form of 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress, I don't know why, 6 is sexy or something, but it seems to be a bit overkill on the Discard. As for the other, I've been using straight up 4 Thoughtseize, and in the 2 empty slots remaining, running a couple of Jotun Grunt, which have been quite nice actually, as they do the things you'd think they'd do (weaken goyf, pull shit out of the other guys yard, beat for 4, etc, etc.) so as for what's been doing me good, I have personally been leaning towards the list with Grunts.

Any thoughts/flames?

The list looks solid... how has the pain been?

between confidant, blossom, confidant, thoughtseize, and fetches... I can see it adding up quite quickly...

I like bitterblossom, but its' added pain could be too much to handle...