Printable View
After seeing how well pox variants abuse cursed scroll, I've been wanting to run it in lands. It's a finisher, an answer to jace, and recurring removal all in one card. I've been playing around with it in my enlightened tutor build along with cursed totem, it seems good so far.
Why doesn't the deck change it's name already??? I haven't seen anyone run over 40 lands since Misty Rainforest was printed. Now it's just plain misleading.
I mean, if I registered a deck named "BUG Control" and was really playing a red-blue-green CounterTop list, I'm pretty sure people would be pissed
@FTW
this happens all the time,
Burn is no longer a true Burn deck, Pox doesnt run Pox, The Rock is more or less Maverick, and all Green White decks are basically Mavericks but run differently.
It is no longer essential to urn 43 lands in the deck anymore, but its still 43 Lands. Pox annoys me personally the most though.
I call it Monolands Control. Use your imagination and call this deck any name you want.
BTW, why they don't call Nic Fit Garbage Can? (Well, they should...)
1. Lands was my "dream deck" when I first got into the format, and now that I've actually built it, I find it to be the most fun deck I've ever played. Plus, it's quite solid in the current meta, and I'm fairly experienced with it at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
2. The same way you deal with any other graveyard hate. It sucks. You try to play around it (preferably with Thicket/Top, but that doesn't save Wastes....), and when you can't, it fucks you over (more or less depending on the game state). I bring Chalice in against RUG, but I don't think it's worth it for Stoneblade most of the time.
3. The two are not comparable. Intuition is a slow and clunky yet extremely flexible tutor that I feel is better suited to a slower meta and the more mana-intensive builds. E-Tutor gives me a ton of flexibility; it's not just there for Exploration. I always hated Intuition for 3 accelerants when I played Intuition. I do feel that the card is extremely powerful (Crucible/Ruins/Loam anyone?), but in my build, it's not right. I used to run it as a 1-of in my E-Tutor build, but it became too clunky, and was milled more often than not, so I switched to a second Top. E-Tutor may not be able to find specific lands, but if I really wanted to go nuts there, I'd just play Crop Rotation. Tolaria West is killer as it is.
This is also accurate, but I think that it's actually made my deck better. I'm no longer 100% on Loam as Plan A, which makes me more resilient to hate and which gives more flexibility and versatility mid-game if I can just grab a Crucible and pick up where I left off with Loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by .dk
I'm not sure if this is what we want to be doing. I definitely do not feel the need for another finisher, and the only time I lost to Jace last weekend was when I was also under pressure from a pair of Hierarchs, a Batterskull, and a 9/9 Knight of the Reliquary. My current build at least has a lot of answers. If I wanted recurring removal, I think I'd go back to Cabal Pit. But I'll test it. It doesn't seem terrible, just not ideal to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat
Also, someone mentioned Trade Routes to me in another Lands discussion. I think it's worth testing as a singleton in the E-Tutor builds, but it could easily just be win-more.
Trade routes seems best in the scenarios where you don't have an accelerent and need to ditch extra non-utility lands. In these scenarios, I think I would rather tutor for an exploration or an artifact that answers the current situation.
what happened to crop rotation? it gives you a land toolbox at instant speed?
somebody should probable remake this as a primer with different versions of the deck, card choices, matchups and sample hands..
i'd do it myself but quite honestly i've only taken interest in this deck since yesterday :p
on a side note, what did you guys think of the gothic gardens deck that topped at "Starcitygames Legacy Series: Washington" by David Price? (234 people tournament)
Crop Rotation is simply another version of the deck that people like to capitalize on, just like the E-Tutor or Intuition variants. I think the last version I saw that used Crop Rotation was also an Intuition build.
Personally, I don't like Crop Rotation. While it can definitely do awesome things like Crop into a Glacial Chasm at instant speed, I feel that that kind of thing is more cute than actually good, as opponents will know to just counter the Crop Rotation when it matters more. Plus, it's another non-recurrable card, and if it's countered you're down a land. I'd much prefer to run Entomb, as it can get any artifact, land, or Loam if you need it, and you're not down a land if it gets countered. It's less cute but more reliable.
I liked the deck, but it isn't Lands.
I would be extremely interested in writing a primer. Would some of the other experience Lands players be interested in contributing and/or helping me edit?
This could be a rough outline:
1. History
2. Strategy
3. Why You Should Play Lands
4. Card Choices
5. Sample Decklists
6. Sideboarding Choices
7. Matchups
I am playing that list at the moment, with the 4th entomb as it is the only tutor and a Tabernacle instead of 2 fetches and I really like blowing a deed then bash with manlands/Worms ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by lunabass
But 3 raven crimes are definitely not enought to fight combo. I don't like the sideboard plan he had too. People don't always side out targeted removal for grave yard hate, being killed my manland is like wtf and they don't enjoy it.
I am trying to find a SB plan that can fight combo and burn (i am missing my red circle), chalice is not that great and I don't want to have 4 Zuran orbs is my SB.. Any ideas?
1 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Cabal Pit
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Treetop Village
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
4 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Exploration
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Entomb
1 Worm Harvest
2 Damnation
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Raven's Crime
4 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Zuran Orb
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Choke
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
@ Anen: I run a similar build and am using Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek out of the sideboard to fight combo decks. It's pretty strong when used alongside Extirpate or Surgical Extraction or Leyline.
I'd help as long as there were a section 8 for pictures of pimp lands decks :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Malacoda
This is what I've been working on -- as I'm just getting into the archetype, I'm sure there are many problems with my list, so any help would be appreciated.
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mox Diamond
1x Smokestack
1x Zuran Orb
4x Exploration
2x Manabond
4x Intuition
3x Punishing Fire
4x Life from the Loam
1x Raven's Crime
1x Academy Ruins
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Maze of Ith
2x Mishra's Factory
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Rishadan Port
1x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Tolaria West
3x Tropical Island
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
//SB
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Dark Confidant
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Noxious Revival
1x Karakas
1x Unburial Rites
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Gigapede
My thought was that with the surge of Maverick, Punishing Grove would help. It does shore up that matchup, in my experience, and it fits in the deck seamlessly, especially starting with an Intuition shell. There are also a few Bant decks and an elf deck or two in the general area, and I've been having enormous problems when decks lead off with a turn 1 mana dork of any variety. Maybe Fires is a crutch rather than actually good for the deck, I don't know.
Other thoughts:
- Intuitioning for Loam-Urborg-Crime is dirty, and I love it.
- Smokestack is amazing, and I'm definitely happy with it maindeck.
- The sideboard is atrocious, although the Rites/Iona package doesn't feel too terrible. It might be better served as like a triple Mindbreak Trap or something like that for Intuition purposes. Especially vs. High Tide, since you can potentially interact with them mid-combo through Intuition.
- I like Knight of the Reliquary, but I'm not sure if he's right. He might be too far into the "bring in dudes" plan, especially since there isn't a lot of lands to really feed him. He's less of a tutor and more of a beater, it feels like.
- I'd like a Riftstone Portal somewhere, but it might be that it should be a second Urborg.
- The thought of Ray of Revelation for Blood Moon has occurred to me. This deck cares less about Magus due to Punishing Fire, although it's still a pain in the ass since I have to have or draw into a Fire. I can't dredge for it.
Again, I fully expect criticism -- I've been having a blast playing this deck so far, and hope to continue after some input from people who actually know what they're talking about, instead of my durdling.
Great. I can help on that part too; I'm slowly pimping Lands. I'll PM you what I have so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat
It doesn't look terrible. I'm not sure about the power of a singleton Raven's Crime, though it does make sense with the Intuition plan and can totally destroy hands. Your list in essence looks like an E-Tutor build that's using Intuition instead, what with all the singleton artifacts. I'm not sure if Intuition is the right choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
The sideboard, however, does look terrible. Run 4 Bob. He's that good. KOTR is cool but is very slow and doesn't provide the same CA Bob does, plus his colors are more of a problem and you can't spin him T1 off a Mox. Karakas could easily be main, and the Unburial Intuition package is cute rather than good. People are going to be bringing tons of hate in. Prepare to play a lot of G2s and G3s wholly without your graveyard.
I like the Punishing Fire package but I really don't know if it's worth it just for Maverick. We already crush Team/RUG most of the time. If your meta is swarming with Maverick, then I'd say it's fine, but it's pretty useless against Blade, Combo, real Control, and stuff like that. However, the ability to answer a Hierarch is absolutely strong - that card is so bad for us.
You definitely want a secondary tutor after intuition. In my experience, it's best to win with intuition game 1, then board them all out and play like a normal e-tutor build postboard with bob as your big bomb instead of intuition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
what about r/w/g old school 43 lands simple basic and consistant because all these tool box cards are nice but what i have had the best success with is this list. i will take the consistancy over blue tool box any day.
4 manabond
4 exploration
4 gamble
4 mox diamond
4 lftl
2 barbarian ring
1 forest
4 maze of ith
4 rishadan port
4 wasteland
1 forgotten cave
1 glacial chasm
4 mishra's factory
2 nantuko monastary
1 nomad stadium
1 riftstone portal
2 savannah
2 taiga
1 tabernacle
4 tranquil thicket
2 treetop village
1 verdant catacombs
2 wooded foothills
1 windswept heath
This sort of list wont be able to consistantly hit answers. You might just die to creature beats because you dont have a maze. With t west you have an additional 3 copies of lands you want every game, while enabling a few bullets for odd situations at no real cost. Building the deck without the blue aspect makes the deck much more high variance.Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalDragon09
The thing is that when I play blue land, I feel more like "How I do I not loose?". And in a red shell it's more "How do I win?". Is this feeling shared?
I feel like 43 lands is currently not taking advantage of the utility lands available. You really don't want to mess around with things like Tropical Island, because it does nothing but tap for mana. You are playing with 17 non-land cards that do something (they put extra lands in play...), so you better make sure that the lands have activated abilities that make up for your lack of non-land cards that do anything. Each land should have an activated ability that gets you closer to winning the game.
I think there is still a lot of room for optimization. I personally like the idea of using Smokestack and Springjack Pasture/Magosi the Waterveil together. I have tested this in a blue stax brew with Tolaria West and I really like it.
Springjack Pasture gives you -> colorless mana, some life, blockers, slow colored mana, smokestack fodder
whereas Magosi gives you blue mana, a trump card against Hive Mind, and the ability to skip your turn with soot counters on Smokestack.
The intuition package could be -> Loam, Tolaria West, Smokestack. Then use Tolaria West to find Academy Ruins/Buried Ruins and Springjack Pasture/Magosi, the Water Veil. Although, if you didn't naturally draw into one of the pieces that might be a little slow. at that stage, getting an Engineered Explosives package is probably just better. If you run into a situation where you have drawn into on of the 3 cards already, it could be more beneficial to assemble a smokestack lock.
The mana-producing lands are very important to the deck. Without enough green sources it's more likely you'll be taking mulligans. You need to be able to cast your Loams and accelerators early. Blue is also important because you need to be able to reliably transmute your Tolaria Wests.
You'll be surprised how easy it is to get color-screwed, even when you're playing a deck with almost 40 lands. It becomes even more likely you'll get screwed when you're playing too many ''spell'' lands.
I agree with Anen. The blue version of Lands is a prison deck at heart. It's designed to close down all angles of attack, forcing the opponent to concede. My build doesn't even play cards to win the game. I win by boring my opponent to death. If my opponent is trolling, I can Ghost Quarter lock him out when I have a Tabernacle on the table. Then I can start activating Factories to get in for some damage. I rarely have to go through the motions. Players just concede.
I have Confidants and Knights in my sideboard so I can mix it up post board. The creatures come in handy when I lose game one, forcing me into a position of playing more proactively and applying some pressure. Game one, I like to make a habit out of NOT activating Factories unless it's safe. That way I encourage my opponent to board out (most of) their removal spells.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anen
Would you play Merfolk without Islands?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Tapping 5 mana is absolutely terrible for the deck because it means you can't be doing anything else. Some builds make a ton of mana but by and large, you won't. You have to be continually Loaming, playing lands, and using those lands to lock out your opponent. This means that you won't always be gaining tempo advantage since you have to Port or Waste or whatever your opponents. If you'd played the deck, you would know that "big mana" is no longer a real part of the Lands strategy in most builds. The turn after you play Smokestack can be one of the scariest things ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Plus, Springjack Pasture? Really?