Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
gz @ ssw!! Your build looks just like mine, except that I play a aura of silence and only 2 ground seals main. Glad to see people play the Tutors^^ They are just awesome. I agree that you have way too many sideboard material against control. the standard 2 justice, 1 replenish plus cities, chokes AND blood moon seems awkward. I used to play 1 moon sideboard too, but couldn't resolve it fast enough to let it make any difference. I might try 2 in the board though xD
@ Sevryn:
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Originally Posted by
Sevryn
1. With the high mulligan rate in an attempt to have an enchantress, and great card advantage with one, why not run serum powder? As long as you don't remove all of your win conditions, what are you really losing by running the mulligan enabler?
1. Enchantress is one of the Decks with a high minimum rate of cards we really need to play. we NEED 8 enchantress, 4 groves, 4 utopia sprawls, 4 grass, confinements, replenishes, win cons, protection, acceleration etc. Once you got that there aren't much slots left for crappy cards like serum powder. And to be honest, I don't mulli more with Enchantress than with any other deck. If you don't have an enchantress effect on your starting hand, you can still keep hands with a sterling grove or enlightened tutor in your hand. And in some matchups you don't need an enchantress effect in your hand if you've got the right sideboard material.
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Originally Posted by
Sevryn
2. Re. exploration: I think the auras are much better because they give 2 land hands some consistency. Also, a hand with a lot of land and exploration won't have much business. Auras are much better at running on 2 lands for as long as needed, whereas exploration is conditional in this case (based on luck of draws being lands).
2. How often do I have to explain this?? Exploration isn't meant to be an acceleration for the early game. Exploration helps the mid and late game!! You can go nuts with Exploration. It can let you draw cards like no other enchantment, it can let you drop a sanctum and then you can combo through your deck! It gives you mana and it's an enchantment that pays for itself. Utopia Sprawl is really awesome in your starting hand. You can play your 2nd turn presence and all but it doesn't combo off as good as exploration can. We don't need Exploration in our starting hand (although it's still good there) we want it to combo through our deck and set up the karmic justice in time before the opponent top decks his pernicious deed next turn. That is why most players just play one or two explorations, but every professional does play them.
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Originally Posted by
Sevryn
3. Re. other acceleration in the deck: must fulfill the same role as auras in being 1 drops that provide mana. I understand the elvish spirit guide, but I question whether it is safe to run more than 1. Past the first ESG played in a game, every ESG drawn is another card that could have been business. Chrome mox is decent... I think maybe 2 chrome mox and 1 ESG would be the best supplement to 8 auras. Gaea's touch seems weak to me as you cannot play it turn 1 to have an accelerated turn 2; instead you are dropping it turn 2 to speed up turn 3, or even later than that and I feel it kind of wastes the effect. Even birds of paradise sounds better to me.
3. If you can manage to find some slots I would recommend 3 chrome mox, cause it sticks round and enchantress needs time and rounds to win, so we want things that hang around. Gaea's Touch doesn't sound weak, it is weak. The forest ability sucks (can't drop the sanctum) and so does the 2cc mana cost. go for exploration. Do NOT even think about playing any creature in addition to argothian.
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Originally Posted by
Sevryn
4. Re. sacred mesa vs. sigil of the empty throne: sigil seems clearly better to me. Sacred mesa requires constant mana commitment to have an effect; this is mana you could have spent playing enchantments (aka threats). 1/1 pegasi are not threats, they are speed bumps. In contrast, sigil REWARDS you for playing enchantments, which is your main plan anyway. Furthermore, 4/4s are just plain bigger than 1/1. Two 4/4s kill a tarmogoyf... you can't always play assuming you have confinement out, and being able to actually answer a threat is a good thing.
4. There is no Sacred Mesa vs. Sigil of the Empty Throne. There is no such fight. They aren't rivals. There is just Sigil. You can't let a pro boxer fight an old lady in a wheelchair. Nothing beats the win condition set up of 1 Words of War and 1 Sigil of the Empty Throne. Not mesa, not hoofprints and luminarch ascension isn't worth it either, I've tested it. see Guevera59's post a couple post above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sevryn
5. Why isn't living wish getting more love? He fetches enchantress effects AND serra's sanctum. Serra's sanctum is an incredible engine for the deck, allowing it to drop multiple bombs in a turn. However, it's best drawn in the mid-game. By running sanctum in the sideboard, you insure you only have it when you want it. Living wish gives you the versatility to tutor squee and sustain confinement off of only one enchantress effect for much longer, which is a tough situation for most builds that I see.
5. First of all we don't have the slots for wish, secondly, you would need a wish board to make it relevant which would steal more important sideboard material slots and finally, we don't need a higher probability of having an enchantress effect in our starting hand. we allready got 14/60 with e-tutor fulfilling this role and ground seal to dig for it. Oh, if you haven't noticed, Squee is horrible. it locks you, not your opponent. You won't do anything with confinement and squee. and milling your opponent is useless in tournament play where rounds have time limits. Even with only one enchantress effect in play, you can keep it alive long enough to get going when playing the right list. Against combo I often drop confinement turn 2 with 2 enchantress effects in hand and keep on rolling. Just a matter of skill^^
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2009...rackdown_1.jpg
Was Crackdown ever considered the deck as a foil against Goyf, Goose, Tombstalkers, Dreadnoughts, Merfolk (with lords), etc?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Why Crackdown? Moat is so much better choice.
With Crackdown out, they can still hit you once.
With Moat out, they won't be able to hit you at all. (Except for fliers like Tombstalker)
However, Tombstalker is black, and you have Elephant Grass...
While it shuts down your enchantress, Moat + Humility shuts down most creatures. (Doesn't remove Painter's ability)
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Also, Crackdown stops your own Angel tokens from Sigil of the Empty Throne. Do not want.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Also, Crackdown stops your own Angel tokens from Sigil of the Empty Throne.
Sigil creates white angel tokens.
Regardless Crackdown costs 1 too much. I would rather have another Solitary Confinement at that cost/slot.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Ok, let me put it in another way. Is this thing superior to Ghostly Prison (for whoever is running it)?
I'm not advocating this card, I just read it somewhere and thought it needed some arguing about it.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
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Originally Posted by
GreenOne
Ok, let me put it in another way. Is this thing superior to Ghostly Prison (for whoever is running it)?
I'm not advocating this card, I just read it somewhere and thought it needed some arguing about it.
I remember back when I first started to build this deck that I thought this would be a good card. Thing is most creatures in this format are 2/2's or less anyway and the only deck I can think of that is hosed by this card is maybe threshold.
I can understand arguing about a card just for its sake, for example I've always wanted to try fitting in Pursuit of Knowledge.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr.AgOn
5. First of all we don't have the slots for wish, secondly, you would need a wish board to make it relevant which would steal more important sideboard material slots and finally, we don't need a higher probability of having an enchantress effect in our starting hand. we allready got 14/60 with e-tutor fulfilling this role and ground seal to dig for it. Oh, if you haven't noticed, Squee is horrible. it locks you, not your opponent. You won't do anything with confinement and squee. and milling your opponent is useless in tournament play where rounds have time limits. Even with only one enchantress effect in play, you can keep it alive long enough to get going when playing the right list. Against combo I often drop confinement turn 2 with 2 enchantress effects in hand and keep on rolling. Just a matter of skill^^
I still don't think you are seeing the potential benefit of living wish. I understand that space is tight in the deck, and I am not suggesting running a full set of wishes, or even cutting down the argothian count main deck. Tentatively, something like 2 wishes maindeck, with limited space in the sideboard: 1 squee, 1 sanctum, 1 femeref enchantress. I don't think replacing an argothian with wish is good because you can't realistically wish for her and play her turn 2.
You say that squee locks you if you fetch it with just confinement out. this is true, however confinement sucks even worse without squee. where squee shines is when you are trying to sustain a confinement off of less than 2 enchantresses. Femeref enchantress has good synergy with elephant grass, sterling grove, and confinement - allowing you to draw some cards when you run out of enchantments in hand.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sevryn
Femeref enchantress has good synergy with elephant grass, sterling grove, and confinement - allowing you to draw some cards when you run out of enchantments in hand.
The #1 problem with her is that she's just going to die. Since your only other creatures are shrouded Argothians, people are going to have hands bursting with StPs, Bolts, Fire//Ices, Snuff Outs, etc that are just itching to blow something off of the board. Non-shrouded creatures in Enchantress just don't work, they always, always die.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otter
The #1 problem with her is that she's just going to die. Since your only other creatures are shrouded Argothians, people are going to have hands bursting with StPs, Bolts, Fire//Ices, Snuff Outs, etc that are just itching to blow something off of the board. Non-shrouded creatures in Enchantress just don't work, they always, always die.
I understand this, really I do. I wouldn't advise running anything but argothian main deck, and you should be running the full 4 there. If there was a way to run 4 maindeck and still have 1 in the board, that would be great, but there isn't. However, when your opponent is packing disruption you don't have to wish for femeref, just wish for sanctum. Living Wish's allure (to me) is its flexibility. You can always grab a sanctum with it and just out-mana people, but you can alternatively grab squee (to remove half of the card disadvantage from confinement), or grab another enchantress effect games 2 and 3 when your opponent likely boarded out their creature removal.
I also don't think it's needed to run a full-on wish board, or to run a full set of wishes. Running your sanctum in the sideboard is the biggest benefit to running wishes, as you never expose yourself to wasteland unless you want to. Running 3-4 cards in your sideboard as wish targets isn't that much of a commitment compared to most wish-boards, but it lets you play squee without cluttering your main deck, and play 1-2 other options (I mentioned femeref enchantress, but something like eternal witness might be better) as well. Living Wish for Eternal witness for Replenish is awesome, no?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HPB_Eggo
Island Sanctuary is, essentially, a bad version of Solitary Confinement. True, you don't have to discard, it costs one less, and you can turn it off and on, which could make it seem viable. However, it is only really useful in the period before you get the Confinement-lock, which is the period in which you want to be drawing into the cards you need. The one and only situation where Island Sanctuary can be good is if you have all the cards you need and you simply need an extra turn to cast all of them, but Mot and Grass/Prison do essentially the same thing without having to cripple your draw if you want the effect before you have all the cards you need.
It's not like it's a bad card, but I wouldn't play it because of the alternatives. Just like I won't play Moat, even though I own several copies. 3 Grass, 3 Confinement, and 2 Prison have always been enough for me, when combined with Seal of Fire and Oblivion Ring to act as removal.
That's what i like about the card, i compare it to a cheap moat,you compare it to sanctuary, Micki uses it as an alternative for grass as well.
It seems this card is suited for this deck but maybe it's just a little bit worse then all of it's alternatives... .
I have not yet been able to test with the card in the deck due to a much needed long holiday. :-) I will do so once i tested it!
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
HAs anyone tested Luminarch Ascension as an extra threat? IT seems to have a lot of synergy with Confinement, and it's better than Mesa once activated.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Hi (first post ever):smile:
I'm playing Maindeck In the eye of Chaos (3x). I've noticed that someone cited it but I haven't read so much discussion about it.
It's good agaist Nauseam: if he plays wipe away as only bounce spell it's game over.
In the other matchups it's like a different city of solitude, generally a must-counter.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Yea, in the Eye of Chaos is such an amazing card against so many matchups. The problem is that you just need to splash Blue. Maybe it is the thing that Enchantress needed against Ad-Nauseam based combo. (Obviously, you need other stuff to back it up)
While it is a minor thing, it is also a bad card to replenish if there is multiples in your graveyard.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Your're right, it's not replenishable if there are two in the 'yard, but it's a minor problem.
Concerning the blue splash, it's not a great problem: 2tropical island and the mana from utopia sprawl.
Obviously it could be a little more problematic if you already splash red. I consider the red splash totally useless: the only card is words of war, that's a finisher, and i've never needed the one turn (more often two) kill: sigil of the empty throne is on-color, only a little slower, and useful sometimes not only as a finisher.
However I don't want to restart boring discussions about the best closure spell: my only opinion about it is that only one card maindeck (and a second post side against extirpate) is more than enough.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
The red splash is NOT useless.
Words of War was, is, and will be the best finisher. It is superior to Sigil. Words can handle hatebears (oh yeah) and slow aggro down by shooting their threats when we don't have the lock or enough setup for the kill up yet. Also, it prevents you from dying to unableness of drawing a card (and yes, it happens sometimes that you'll draw your whole deck.)
In the Eye of Chaos is nice, yeah. But seriously, City of Solitude actually does the same job for us. Just accept the loss against combo.
edit:
As with the last paragraph, I mean: In the Eye of Chaos, even if you run a playset, won't make you win against combo. Not on it's own. You really need to pay a LOT of slots to be able to defend yourself against combo, and still won't have a great matchup. So don't waste any slot on it.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darkenslight
HAs anyone tested Luminarch Ascension as an extra threat? IT seems to have a lot of synergy with Confinement, and it's better than Mesa once activated.
Interesting, but it is a lot worse if you don't have Confinement/Turns to wait which is more important. Seems like if you have Confinement out with time to "ascend" and mana to pump into a win con you're likely winning anyway.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Luminarch Ascension is like even worse than Hoofprints of the Stag.
Seriously, have a look at it:
Costs 2 mana. You might think this is good, because you can drop it early. But honestly, do you want to run a win condition that will be countered by Spell Snare, or is hit just so easy by Engineered Explosives? I don't think so.
Then you will need 4 turns of not being dealt any damage. Four. Turns. No. Damage. Yeah take that. How are you going to manage that without a Confinement lock? And if you have the lock, any win condition will do. Why this one will also be worse then the rest in this case, you will read below.
So you might have taken control in the game without the lock, but are running low on hand cards. A win condition would be just perfect now. And -- lucky as you are -- you draw one! Sigil, go and rip that guy off! Yeah, that would be it. But think of this: Ascension! Erm.. I would like you to really kill my opponent now, but it's okay, I really understand if you need to take your time before you actually want to. It's not like I would gift him the turns he needs to break my boardcontrol. And then you won't do anything any soon. Oh. Yeah.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Yeah, In the Eye of Chaos is probably one of the most useful cards for that matchup. But still it doesn't protect itself against Duress and Force of Will and can't be cast through an Orim's Chant either. And still you see, it doesn't win you the matchup, and for this -- not too big -- advantage, you are paying a color splash! And this, in my opinion, is not worth it.
As for "closure" / "finisher": I was aware of what you meant. Still, Luminarch Ascension is a terrible one.
More generally about playing only one finisher maindeck: That's okay, but I personally would feel very uncomfortable with it. The opponent will have an easy time getting rid of only one card and the Replenishs, where the Replenishs can even be handled with graveyard-removal. The second finisher in the sideboard would be a card which you would probably board in in almost any matchup, and cards to which this applies should be maindecked instead of always having to wait to show up in game2. This also gives you 1 more sideboard-slot for hate-stuff.
