[Deck] Dragon Stompy

I think as a general starting point the deck would look something like this:
// Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
// Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Sulfur Elemental/Taurean Mauler
// Spells
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
2 Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 Trinishpere
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis

Sword of Fire and Ice is good in the mirror. Akroma is good against control. Pyroclasm is good against goblins, bridge from below, ETW and aggro in general.

I'd say the worst matchups for Dragon Stompy are Enchantress, MUC, Faerie Stompy, Aggro Loam, and Dreadstill. We have too many tools against Ugr Thresh for it to be one of our worst matchups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuma

I'd say the worst matchups for Dragon Stompy are Enchantress, MUC, Faerie Stompy, Aggro Loam, and Dreadstill. We have too many tools against Ugr Thresh for it to be one of our worst matchups.

---

What tools?
Only Chalice of the Void proved itself as the silver bullet to slow the UGR, MagMoon can be killed easily especially because they bring 7 burn spell with them. .and yes goys isn't main issue since mauler, slogger, and riders are strong enough to have 1-1 duel. .but I'd say that DS has no maindeck answer to the swan combo. .

In addition to Chalice, Trinisphere and our Moons. Not ever Ugr Thresh list runs basic Forest, and many only run a single basic Island. Even if they run basics, Moon can still catch them with their pants down, or at the very least make life difficult for them.

Your answer to Swan is to resolve a Moon effect. They won't be able to get double blue to cast it.

I've only played the match once and lost it, but I can't see it being one of our worst matchups.

Edit:
Nevermind on Swan Combo

Seems like if you chalice for 2, GG Ugr madness, aggro loam, and swan?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hana, The Deadly Flower

Should we run mauler, sulfur elemental, or both in the main deck. I believe Mauler would definitely be a better choice in the early game. Sulfur and Mauler doesn't really do anything in late game so I believe that Mauler has the advantage.

---

Mauler. Aggression and Power >> Tricky Shit. Sulfur's better if you're in a small meta with Cephalid Breakfast around. And the deck certainly isn't -bad- with Sulfur instead of Mauler. But Mauler is an absolute behemoth against both Threshold and Goblins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hana, The Deadly Flower

What is shattering spree for? If it's for affinity, the deck already loses to moon/magus. I don't think its a good card for the mirror match up as well. I may be missing the big picture.

---

Shattering Spree doesn't shine in this deck. Nor does Ingot Chewer. Almost every artifact played in Legacy can be dealt with as follows.

1. Ignore it. This is the best strategy.
2. Pithing Needle it.
3. Stop it with Chalice of the Void.
4. Kill it via the Legend Rule. Works against Umezawa's Jittes.

Quote:

---

I'm wondering what's Dragon Stompy's bad MU? Also why do we need Crypt for? Do we have a hard time against Threshold? or it's for combo?

---

Besides random tier three decks and its own occasional inconsistencies? It has very few. Which makes it a fantastic choice.

Dragon Stompy's worst matchup in existence is seriously Enchantress. I'm 3-10 in this matchup. You're seriously just going to get rolled in this matchup unless you get an explosive huge threat early on, or manage to catch them in a very vulnerable state to a turn one Chalice, which on occasion you can do on the play.

Faerie Stompy is the other worst matchup. On occasion you can drop a fast Moon and stick them at 2 mana for aeons, but they outdo you more often than not in all the relevant departments. Your guys are bigger, but theirs evade. Also, if you find a FS build packing 3-4 SOFIs, bring in your Needles for Chalices and say lots of silent prayers you draw more of them than they draw Forces.

Aggro Loam's not nearly as bad as people say. It's probably unfavored, but it's not one of the worst. You just spend all your mana trying to get a Chalice for 2 out at all costs, preferrably on turn one. This shuts off Loam, Wish, Dreams, and Tarmogoyf. You can actually outrace Terravore and Crusher without the rest of the deck assisting it. Ditch your Moons postboard for Crypts.

Threshold is never one of your worst matchups. There are very very very few Thresholds in existence that can actually put up a 50-50 record against DS. A turn one moon can even fuck up a lot of hands against MoonThresh depending on their fetchland setup in their hand. Chalice for 1 is always strong in this matchup. Crypt usage depends largely on the build of Threshold. You have to weigh their strength versus the Jittes and Moons.

MUC might wreck you game one. Vedalken Shackles is a nightmare and your Moons are about as useful as a football bat. But on occasion you can drop out a fast big guy and MUC will just have to roll over and die to him as they realize blue isn't exactly the best color for threat removal. Board the Moons out for Pithing Needles and suddenly it's a solid match, as your big guys tend to go the distance.

I would say that one of Dragon Stompy's worst matchups is any very well build and tuned Pox deck.

Fortunately, most Pox decks are NOT well built hence why the archeatype continues to get little respect.

You can disagree all you want.

All I know is that I have a Pox list and a standard Dragon Stompy list (identical to what DrtyDozen posted above).

And the Pox list wins the matchup the bulk of the time that the decks face each other.

It doesn't look like it should though, as Hellbent is so much easier to achieve versus a Pox list. But Pox always seems to play a Pox to take your threat and stabilize in time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tacosnape

MUC might wreck you game one. Vedalken Shackles is a nightmare and your Moons are about as useful as a football bat. But on occasion you can drop out a fast big guy and MUC will just have to roll over and die to him as they realize blue isn't exactly the best color for threat removal. Board the Moons out for Pithing Needles and suddenly it's a solid match, as your big guys tend to go the distance.

---

While I usually agree with the logic in your reasoning, I have to disagree here. After boarding, the MUC MU gets worse, with them sideing in 8 BEBs. It's horrible. The only chance you have is dropping a fast CotV@1, hope they have nothing to counter it with and hope they don't have Powder Keg. And you can't consistently drop CotV1, Needle on Keg, Needle on Shackles and a threat that they won't counter. Beating MUC post board is very, very hard.

EDIT: I agree on the Loam MU. It's not as bad as it sounds. The version with White is worse (giving them Vindicate and StP), but the Red version is doable, I went 8-0 last time we seriously playtested it with optimal lists. You win every match they don't get Mox Diamond down quickly, and you win a good share of the ones in which they actually do. Moon wrecks them, bringing them down to the enchantment that discards lands for damage, and Devastating Dreams, which can be Devastating, but it's slow, especially if they can't use their Loam.

So I played DS to 4-3 Record at the $1k event in Syracuse. My inexperience with the deck may have cost me a game or 2 but I am still ok with the way I played. Here is the list I piloted:

4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Taurean Mauler
4 Arc Slogger
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
10 Mountain

Sideboard:

4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokinsis
2 Blood Moon

I added the 4th Crypt and dropped a Pyrokinsis after hearing that there may be a lot of Ichorid showing up. I didn’t play against a single Dredge deck all day; it did however show up in force.

Round 1 against TES
He is on play and goes turn one Gemstone Mine into Ponder, I tell him he isn’t going to be happy with this match up. I go turn one Trinisphere, turn 2 Pit Dragon, turn 3 swing for 10; game over a turn or 2 later.

Game 2
He drops a turn 1 mine and passes; I drop a turn 1 Chalice for 0. He casts a spree on his turn 2 and goes off with a lethal Tendril, nice opening hand for him.

Game 3

I drop a turn 1 Chalice for 0 and a Trinisphere, he cries. I drop a turn 2 dragon and he drops a land and passes. I swig and he blows up my CoTV and Trini with a spree. I drop another Trini and swing for a turn or 2 more ftw.

Round 2 against MUC
I drop a turn 1 Trini and proceed to win from there.

Game 2
I lose game one on a play mistake, I blame it on my lack of experience with the deck, O well. He wins with a Shackles and a Gilded Drake. He is at 3 when game ends and I could have done 5 more damage if I had played my hand right, o well.


Game 3
He FoW’s my turn 1 Trini and my turn 2 dragon. The game is back and forth he drops a Propaganda, 2 Gilded Drakes and then blow’s an EE for 2. He finished at 1, it was a close game.

Round 3 The Mirror Match, Dragon Stompy
This was a fun match and the first time I have played the mirror. I drop a turn 1 CoTV for 0 not knowing what he is playing. Turns out this was a good play because it prevented him from playing his Mox. I just out drew him this game and win after a short battle for board position.

Game 2 (I sided out 4 CoTV, 4 Trinisphere and 1 Blood Moon, brought in 3 Pyrokinisis, 3 Shattering Spree and 3 Pithing Needle)
He drops a turn 1 CoTV for 0, has no effect on the game. I drop a Mauler I think and he proceeds to win with Jitte. This game was close until the Jitte hit.

Game 3
I start with a turn 1 Needle naming Jitte, and a turn 2 Mauler. The game went back and forth for a turn or 2 and he drops a Jitte and a Trini, I blow up the 2 artifacts and his Chrome Mox with spree. The stalemate ended when he dropped a Magus giving me 2 more red sources, I flew over with my Dragon twice and I was all over.

Round 4 Goblins
This was another MU I have never tested. Game one was close; he wins with the support of double Goblin Matron.

Game 2
I kept an iffy hand and it cost me, he destroys me, sealing the deal with a warren weirding on my first and only dude, O well…

Round 5 TES again!
This match was over quickly, I win game one with turn one CoTV at o and a turn 2 Trini.

Game 2
Much of the same, Turn 1 CoTV for 0 and 1n turn 2 Trini and a turn 5 or 6 CoTV for 2, He scoops.

Round 6 I don’t really know what he was playing, I saw Tarmogoyfs and Blue Cards and apparently he was playing with 0 basics.

Game 1
This game came down to a nice Top deck by me. He kills my turn 2 Slogger and I rip another, he can’t deal with the second one.

Game 2
He wins with Counterspells and Gofys, not much to say here.

Game 3
I go turn 1 Magus of the Moon, he extends hand and scoops. He tells me he has no basics in his deck. I show him I had another Moon in hand and the SSG back up for Daze.

Round 7 B/G Aggro
I win game one with a bunch of Dudes, not much he could do.

Game 2
I though I had this game in had until he plays back, to back, to back Snuff Out and I run out of gas. He blows up some of my Land and I can’t drop another creature to finish him off, gg.

Game 3
He plays some early discard and a snuff out on my first dude. I drop a Mauler the gets up to a 7/7, I missed 2 triggers that would have made him a 9/9. He sinkholes/Wastelands my land away and I am left with just the massive Mauler. I Kinisis away a threat and he wins with 2x Goyf and a Hippie.

I finish in like 24th or 25th, if I messed up any of these reports I am sorry, I did it all from memory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallace

I go turn 1 Magus of the Moon, he extends hand and scoops.

---

Magus turn one is probably one of the best plays in Legacy. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: He wins games alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallace

Sideboard:
4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokinsis
2 Blood Moon

---

Never ever leave home without 4 pithing needles in your board. In specific you really wanted it against MUC and goblins (2 losses). Depending on what was in the Bg aggro it may have been good their too (another loss).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrtyDozen13

Never ever leave home without 4 pithing needles in your board. In specific you really wanted it against MUC and goblins (2 losses). Depending on what was in the Bg aggro it may have been good their too (another loss).

---

Goblin's? The Needles stay in the board if I'm on the play against Goblins, turn one Trini or CoTV will stops Vial. Against MUC the I drew Needles, they were either countered or I had to name Shackles and then they were blown up by EE. Against B/G Sui I also drew Needles, the only card I could name was Jitte and they really weren't a factor. I could have called Nantuko Shade but never really had the chance. The rumor was that there was going to be a lot of Dredge so I added the 4th Crypt, 5 Ichorid Lists showed up. The Crypts would have been nice against the 6 Survival decks too, I didn't play either MU, o well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mayk0l

While I usually agree with the logic in your reasoning, I have to disagree here. After boarding, the MUC MU gets worse, with them sideing in 8 BEBs. It's horrible.

---

Okay, I admit that would suck. Fortunately I've never once ever encountered an MUC with 8 blasts. Seriously, who the hell runs eight blasts? Is that really done now? I can't attest to being an expert on awful decks, so I haven't kept up completely with MUC. You can still steal game one pretty easily by dropping out threats faster than they can get Shackles, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrtyDozen13

Never ever leave home without 4 pithing needles in your board. In specific you really wanted it against MUC and goblins (2 losses). Depending on what was in the Bg aggro it may have been good their too (another loss).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallace

Goblin's? The Needles stay in the board if I'm on the play against Goblins, turn one Trini or CoTV will stops Vial.

---

DrtyDozen's right in so far as that you should have had four Needles. You're both slightly off on what to do against Goblins.

Trinisphere should never be in your deck against Goblins. Goblins is a pretty easy boarding scheme.

Regardless of who won game one:
-4 Blood Moon
-X Sulfur Elemental / Magus of the Moon (You cut Magus if you run Mauler)
+4 Pyrokinesis
+X Umezawa's Jitte

If you're about to be on the play:
No additional changes.

If you're about to be on the draw:
-4 Chalice of the Void
+4 Pithing Needle

Depending on the opponent's build, there are other little tricks to try, but this more or less covers you.

A Dragon Stompy deck that top-halfed the 1k event this past weekend played 4 Tormod's Crypt and 3 Heap Doll to beat Ichorid.

I'm pretty sure that (other than, say, Humility-full landstill) Ichorid is our worst match. Would you say that this is a cool idea?

Ichorid isn't bad, its just really swingy and depends largely on who gets the die roll. If you can drop any kind of disrpution, its really hard for them, whereas if they get the engine going, its really hard for you.

My testing has been about 50-50 against even when I don't run Crypts in the board.

If you open with 3Sphere or a Moon effect against Ichorid, and can follow it with any threat, you win. Chalice for zero in conjunction with either of these is a lock. Post-Board, Pyrokenisis almost assures you win. Just be certain to do it during their draw step after you see Bridges hit. Kill your smallest guy, and any Ichorids they may have returned. I've never lost a match to Ichorid, and never played them when I had used Crypt.

I'm (I think) 7-4 against Ichorid. This isn't the worst match by far. It just feels like it on some days where sometimes Ichorid will just be Ichorid, hit what it needs on every opening hand and every dredge, and make you hate Legacy with a passion. Then you remember you're playing a deck that can very frequently get to game 2 without seeing a single card of your opponent's deck and you suck up the random loss and move on.

Crypts help swing this in your favor but the matchup can be won without them. Just not as easily. Trinisphere's also worth boarding in just to shut off Cabal Therapy and Dread Return flashbacks, and it's incredible if you can lead with it on the play. Then they have to beat you with Draw/Discard/Go, which they can't always do if you have a good clock to follow.

EDIT: And Heap Doll? Really?

Aydunno, folks; I just have such a tough time Taking down Ichorid. My board is:
1 Trinisphere (three main)
1 Gaea's Blessing (between 1 and 3 Painter decks in a 16 man local)
4 Pyroclasm (helps against Imperial Painter, Goblins, Zombie and Warrens tokens)
3 Needle (this should be 4, but the only decks I really need it against are Mono-U control (at most a 1 of), Landstill with Deed (nobody plays it), and COP:R that I randomly walk into). Oh, and Grindstone.)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Heap Doll

With the addition of Heap Dolls I haven't lost a game (even) against Ichorid yet. I had some pretty dumb draws, though. Like, Turn 1 3sphere, turn 2 Magus, turn 3 Raiders, turn 4 hellbent. Can't be Christmastown every game.

I don't like Pyrokenesis. I just don't like it. I mean, it wins the mirror, and you can run just about anything into a Goyf and then kill it with 'Kenesis. But dropping another card on it is pretty rough. And you lose to the "eight goblins on the play" hands that TES can muster. I don't like that.

I also don't run any equipment in my deck at all. My meta is pretty consistantly 2-3 combo decks (without counting Ichorid), 2-4 Thresh, and 1-3 stupid control decks that I hate playing against. I run the 8 Moons, 3 3sphere, 4 Chalice, 26 Mana Sources (G-d that's weird to type out. Do we really play 26 cards that make mana?), 3 Mauler, 4 Dragon, 4 Slogger... I think that's it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zach Tartell

I don't like Pyrokenesis. I just don't like it. I mean, it wins the mirror, and you can run just about anything into a Goyf and then kill it with 'Kenesis. But dropping another card on it is pretty rough. And you lose to the "eight goblins on the play" hands that TES can muster. I don't like that.

---

No you don't. You Pyrokinesis four of them and play a threat. Board stabilized. Then hopefully you drop enough hate to stop them from doing it again. Granted, it's not Pyroclasm in this situation, but hey.

Quote:

---

I also don't run any equipment in my deck at all. My meta is pretty consistantly 2-3 combo decks (without counting Ichorid), 2-4 Thresh, and 1-3 stupid control decks that I hate playing against. I run the 8 Moons, 3 3sphere, 4 Chalice, 26 Mana Sources (G-d that's weird to type out. Do we really play 26 cards that make mana?), 3 Mauler, 4 Dragon, 4 Slogger... I think that's it.

---

You're probably right to maindeck the Trinispheres then. With that metagame Trinisphere main's a decent option again. Trini's a monster against combo, fairly solid against Threshold, and even okay against Ichorid.

Also, why Heap Doll? And why a 3/3 split as opposed to a 4/2 in favor of the much stronger Crypt?

For Needle, mostly. And (to quote Steve Menindian on why he didn't play a single Snow-Covered Island in Meandeck Gifts) for aesthetic reasons - I only own 3 The Dark Crypts. The 1-of Japanese 4th one just doesn't feel right.