That's because they all have government jobs and 6 weeks vacation. What's to complain about? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem
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That's because they all have government jobs and 6 weeks vacation. What's to complain about? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem
At least then I wouldn't have to quit legacy, I could just move to Europe and be free of the whiners.Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun
Sensei's Divining Top and Doomsday would like to have a word with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snap_Keep
EDIT:
Also, I watch a lot of games sometimes just cause I have so much time in between games playing SI, and I like to sit and watch the blue players. People whiff on their Brainstorms all the time without knowing it because it comes back to bite them in the ass much later in the game. Then again, if you play something like BUG Tempo which allows you to play discard and see the opponents hand, you have more information and its harder to whiff. Still, I don't think people have taken the time to consider the implications of a misplayed Brainstorm, and how often it happens. Its a subtle misplay most of the time, not blatant like 'ahhh shit, I flipped one too many on Ad Nauseam, looks like I lose, guy.'
Brainstorm surely is very powerful, but I would hate to see it banned. It makes the format more fun for me without putting one strategy (Either U-based Aggro Control or U-based Combo) over the top in my eyes. The power level of Brainstorm did not make for the 32/32 showing, the state of the format did. Brainstorm was always strong, and there have always been decks that abuse it very well. But there have been many times when anti-blue decks such as Maverick or Vial based decks (mainly Merfolk) were the main tier-1 strategy. The current format is RUG/SnT. RUG and most SnT variants (except for hypergenesis) play Brainstorm. The latest answer to this meta, Reanimate, also packs brainstorms. Besides, a card being so popular is not a reason to ban it as long as it it played by a wide variety of decks. While one does need to play fetchlands and at least 1-2 blue duals to enable Brainstorms it cannot be said that it's only played by a small variety of decks. The same goes for cards such as Wasteland. This argument is of lesser strength for Force of Will, but that card serves a different role in this format (keeping silly combo decks such as Belcher and SI in check). While Show and Tell is played in different decks it's actually only playable in one strategy; U-based combo.
Show and Tell is a card I can actually see getting banned. If it won't happen now it'll happen later as it'll only become stronger because of Wizards printing more silly overcosted permanents and that alone puts a card on the watchlist judging by what happened to Mystical (which was a correct ban for the wrong reasons) and Survival (which was a wrong ban imo, but can be understood).
It is also fairly hard to fight all the angles that Show and Tell has, which makes it a much more bannable card than Jizzlebrand or Sneaky Derp in my eyes.
I think the format can perfectly survive with Show and Tell in it until the next B&R update but I won't shed a tear if it does face the wrath of the banhammer.
Looking at the banlist for possible unbans I see many options, but I don't expect to them to unban too much any time soon. Cards I'd like to see are Black Vise, Earthcraft, Land Tax & Mind Twist and possibly some of the combo engines such as Memory Jar because I doubt they are that much stronger than Ad Nauseam or Time Spiral. Some other cards could come off but won't because of the cost (Library would be fine imo) or because they've been banned recently (Survival).
PS: Brainstorm definately does add to the amount of skill needed to play your deck optimally but it's not the hardest card to play (Top, Doomsday, Therapy and some dead cards such as FoF or Gifts come to mind) and the skill issue is slightly overused.
This doesn't look to be the case for wotc, just see MM.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieW89
Remember what happened to Vintage when Brainstorm got restricted? Killed the format.
Know what will happen if you ban Brainstorm in Legacy? You will kill the format.
Brainstorm is a fun card that isn't excessively powerful.
Why did I talk about it in past posts in this topic? Because discussion is fun.
But go ahead and cry out for Brainstorm to be banned. Have fun with that fallout. :laugh:
If banning Brainstorm kills the format then the format sucked to begin with. Vintage died off because of the reserved list. If legacy dies it'll be because of the reserved list, not because of a U instant. SCG stopped the Power 9 series because legacy became the more profitable format.
Nope, thats the SCG format. Although I admit RUG is placing very high everywhere and I cant blame people jumping the grisel-wagon as it seems very fun deck to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieW89
For example Bazaar Moxen top8:
1 Maverick
3 Thresh
1 Sneak & Show
1 Blue Zoo
1 Esper Tempo
1 Doomsday
1 Blade Control
PTQ Ghent I played in last weekend had the following decks in t8:
2 UW Countertop (1 Miracle, 1 Thopter)
4 Thresh
1 NLT
1 Sneak & Show
Brainstorm everywhere :cry: Hopefully people adapt their Maverick lists (Revoker/whatever else has been discussed lately) and we see some mavericks in top8s again.
That's 9 decks. 8 with Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
Wow 8 for 8. It's hilarious that some people argue that the card isn't ban worthy. For those clinging to the Brainstorm-tit as the only reason you shuffle up a deck you better hope for some unbannings to shake things up.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
My bad, 2 Thresh instead of 3. Unless people count the Blue Zooish list as Thresh, in which case no blue zoo in that top8.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
As for the Ban brainstorm debate, you are in the 21.50% minority and I happen agree with the 78.50%.
EDIT: Let me clarify that, roughly 80% of this legacy community agrees that brainstorm shouldnt be banned and I think we have some of the greatest legacy minds on these forums and I trust in their opinions.
The reason you are seeing brainstorm everywhere is because it is the best card of the 'current' best color. Show and Tell versus RUG is the format right now. I could see RUG losing some strength with the loss of brainstorm, but Show and Tell decks would hardly notice the loss of brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
If white was without question the best color, then swords to plowshares would be covering the top 8's. You know why? Because Swords to Plowshares is the best white card.
Same with mono black. Dark Ritual in a mono black deck is really close to a Black Lotus. In the right deck, Lion's Eye Diamond is a Black Lotus.
In fact, in the right deck Show and Tell is more powerful than Black Lotus. You see when Show and Tell was printed creatures were less powerful than spells. Hence you had Black Lotus restricted/banned while Show and Tell could only put permanents in play. Well flash forward 14 years(?) and now creatures are vastly more powerful than spells, and stupid powerful too.
Legacy is full of broken things. Brainstorm is no exception to this. It doesn't need to be banned though. It is on par with everything else crazy in the format.
With you argument of things being unbanned: you are right. Mind's Desire, Mind Twist, and Land Tax(probably time limits for this one) are outdated or the format has moved past them.
And over 80% of people thought that Temporal Mastery should be banned. That's actually higher than the number you appealed to and it's a more recent poll. Do you therefore agree it should be banned?Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
I see 40% voting yes and 40% voting no with 20% being neutral?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Citing that poll is ridiculous. There are two different "ban it" options and one option to abstain. Totally biased.
40% voted it should receive an emergency banning before it even entered the format. 40% voted that it should be banned, but not preemptively.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
The sneak and show decks run 12 awkward cards they don't want in multiples. The deck runs 19 lands. Over a 8-10 round tourney good luck with that. Brainstorm enables that deck to top 8 with some consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Right, but every non white deck wouldn't run Swords to Plowshares. The black ritual based combo deck wouldn't run swords. The combo deck wouldn't run STP. The aggro deck might not run it either because of the life gain.Quote:
If white was without question the best color, then swords to plowshares would be covering the top 8's. You know why? Because Swords to Plowshares is the best white card.
The difference is every deck runs Brainstorm ... even the black ritual decks. Even the G/r aggro deck (Delver makes this even worse).
Now you are off in left field and saying strange things.Quote:
In fact, in the right deck Show and Tell is more powerful than Black Lotus. You see when Show and Tell was printed creatures were less powerful than spells.
Yep. The broken things are mostly on the banned list. Solomoxenvaults, big blue, necro, drains, broken lands, windfall, etc.. Brainstorm is a better, more versatile, more 'broken', more degeneracy enabling card than several cards on the banned list now. Let's get those off of there. Let's shake up the format.Quote:
Legacy is full of broken things. Brainstorm is no exception to this. It doesn't need to be banned though.
Earthcraft, Recruiter, etc.Quote:
With you argument of things being unbanned: you are right. Mind's Desire, Mind Twist, and Land Tax(probably time limits for this one) are outdated or the format has moved past them.
Let's hope so. I hope they look at the list as a whole re-evaluate all the cards before moving to ban anything. Show and Tell or Brainstorm or Sneak Attack.
Anything they do unban will ultimately best be utilized along side.....Wait....for.....it.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
.......
Brainstorm.
Just a note about polls, especially internet forum polls:
They're generally horribly inaccurate since it's pretty easy to bias towards a particular answer due to the wording of answers/what choices you offer/etc. but also because you don't actually get the full opinion of the population you're polling, just the people who cared enough to vote on the topic.
Speculation will always continue on what's to ban next, but I wanna look at the current banned list and see what has the potential to come off -or- return to legacy, for that, I'll look at the banned list itself and make some notes:
First are the Ante cards, or cards that have absurd/outrageous requirements, like actual physical interactions, etc, these are the least likely candidates to ever be unbanned:
Ante:
1 Amulet of Quoz
2 Bronze Tablet
3 Contract from Below
4 Darkpact
5 Demonic Attorney
6 Jeweled Bird
7 Rebirth
8 Tempest Efreet
9 Timmerian Fiends
Physical interaction:
10 Chaos Orb
11 Falling Star
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The next least likely cards to ever come off the banned list, are also some of the most famous, and most expensive:
The power 9:
12 Ancestral Recall
13 Black Lotus
14 Mox Emerald
15 Mox Jet
16 Mox Pearl
17 Mox Ruby
18 Mox Sapphire
19 Time Walk
20 Timetwister
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Other unlikely candidates, are cards have been added to the banned list since the start of "modern type 1.5" / legacy, since Sept 2004, when type 1 & type 1.5, or "Vintage" & "Legacy" went from sharing what's "restricted" in vintage is "banned" in legacy, to their own banned/restricted lists independent of eachother. Any card that has been ADDED to the banned list since that time (Sept 2004), is very unlikely to be removed since it is more recent, etc.
Added to banned list since 2004:
21 Imperial Seal (Sept 2005)
22 Flash (June 2007)
23 Shahrazad (Sept 2007)
24 Time Vault (Sept 2008)
25 Mystical Tutor (June 2010)
26 Survival of the Fittest (Dec 2010)
27 Mental Misstep (Sept 2011)
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Of the remaining 34 cards, some are just as unlikely as the cards above, but other's just might be a "possibility":
28 Bazaar of Baghdad (unlikely)
29 Balance (? possibility ? ~One could say that all it really is, is a more powerful pox, the argument against it however, is that it's the ULTIMATE pox)
30 Black Vise (? possibility ? ~One could say it's not fast enough, & it's not broken enough without something to help keep cards in your opponents hands, like trinisphere/chalice of the void/land destruction/howling mine, etc. The argument against it, in the right deck build & setup, it's a lightning bolt every turn coming from not a creature but a harder to answer artifact, and it's a 1 mana investment)
31 Channel (unlikely)
32 Demonic Consultation (unlikely)
33 Demonic Tutor (unlikely)
34 Earthcraft (? possibility ? ~This is another card that has been debated in the past, it could turn the lesser played enchantress deck into a combo setup, go enchantress! the argument against it, is that it would make for another fast combo setup out there, possibly too fast or too easy to enable?)
35 Fastbond (? possibility ? ~What's the most broken thing you could get out of having all your lands in play, one could argue the more lands you play, the less spells you play, and you become weaker against counter magic opponents when they just wait to counter what's important, and just leave you with a few non basic lands with some tricks that the lands themselves provide, while the most broken lands are banned anyway from the format, the argument against it however, is that it's fastbond!)
36 Frantic Search (? possibility ? ~It's essentially just another careful study -at instant speed- that, while basically free if it resolves, has a 3 mana requirement. The argument against it, Reanimator, Solidarity, & High tide are definitely just some of the examples of where this one would be abused)
37 Goblin Recruiter (unlikely)
38 Gush (? possibility ? ~It does require 2 islands for the alternate casting cost, the argument against it, it's blue, its free, it's abuseable card advantage)
39 Hermit Druid (? possibility ?~He doesn't have haste, so not only is it counterable, it's killable, bounceable, etc, the argument against it however, is that once it uses it's ability, your deck will most likely be setup for it, and you will most likely win the game after that.)
40 Land Tax (? possibility ? ~This is one of the more debated ones, it is card advantage but more narrow, & not as absurd as most of the other cards on the banned list, the argument against it however, is that its still some good raw card advantage)
41 Library of Alexandria (unlikely)
42 Mana Crypt (unlikely)
43 Mana Drain (unlikely)
44 Mana Vault (unlikely)
45 Memory Jar (unlikely)
46 Mind Twist (? possibility ? ~One of the more debated ones, out of all the cards on the banned list, this is one of the weaker ones, there is even another version for just 1 more black mana & I didn't even know it existed until recently because noone ever uses it, the argument against it? with enough mana you can still, technically, turn 1 destroy an opponents hand, but you are probably using nearly your entire hand to do so in the process)
47 Mind's Desire (unlikely)
48 Mishra's Workshop (unlikely)
49 Necropotence (unlikely)
50 Oath of Druids (unlikely)
51 Skullclamp (unlikely)
52 Sol Ring (unlikely)
53 Strip Mine (? possibility ? ~The most abusive thing I can think of is crucible of worlds/Life from the loam lockdown, and most of the better tier legacy decks run ton's of non basic's already, the argument against it however is just that, strip mine into play every turn lockdown)
54 Tinker (unlikely)
55 Tolarian Academy (unlikely)
56 Vampiric Tutor (unlikely)
57 Worldgorger Dragon(unlikely)
58 Wheel of Fortune (unlikely)
59 Windfall (unlikely)
60 Yawgmoth's Bargain (unlikely)
61 Yawgmoth's Will (? possibility ? ~past in flames costs 1 more mana to activate, and only hits instants & sorceries, this card costs 1 less and can hit anything, but most of the stuff you'd want would likely be instants and sorceries in the first place. The argument against it, it's just too cheap overall & just too powerful once it resolves, out of all the "possibilities" for arguments that I can make, this card is one of the most least likely of all the possible unbans.)
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In either case, the format is what it is, and it's not likely much will come off the banned list, but for what it's worth, from perspectives that can be argued, for cards that just might get looked at every once in a while, I figured I'd go on the defensive for "some" of these cards, even of some of them listed as a "possibility" are really just as unlikely as the rest of the list, all I know for sure is, I don't expect much to come off the banned list, but with the format ever changing, some of the slower or more narrow cards, just might get lifted in the future >^,^<
~Note: Please don't freak on me about cards I listed as a possibility, I am just making arguments for & against the cards listed as such, I am aware that these cards are ALL on the banned list for a reason, so please don't think I could forget that.
Relevant excerpt from a Pat Chapin article:
Quote:
What is the solution?
Legacy is actually not in bad shape, of course. There are a ton of decks getting played, and in fact 20 different archetypes appear among these three top 10 lists, as well as over 40 archetypes appearing over the year. No single deck or strategy is dominating, even if most of the top strategies are fueled by Brainstorm and Force of Will. Something needs to change, but the only cards truly ban-worthy on paper are Brainstorm and Force of Will, both of which continue to get the free pass until compelling evidence is presented to argue otherwise. Brainstorm is definitely on the watch list, despite its untouchable status. Obviously, just about everyone would jump to throw Snapcaster Mage under the bus before it ever came to that, but there is another way.
Time to unban something!
The Legacy banned list features 60 cards, which is a nice round number, but a high one. Maybe the solution to loosening blue's iron grip on the format is to unban something that promotes non-blue decks. Let's take a quick look at the top candidates:
Demonic Consultation
Demonic Consultation is an extremely powerful tutor and can lead to blisteringly fast combo decks, generally based around Tendrils of Agony and rituals. This is potentially troublesome if it actually forces more people to play Force of Will. Another potentially big Demonic Consultation-based strategy is that of aggro-control. Consult has often been excellent in decks like CounterSliver. Would it just help Brainstorm decks?
Although Consult would appear in some Brainstorm decks, as well as some fast combo decks, you have to remember the status quo is 75% blue. Even if half the Consult decks are blue, they could easily lower the total number of Brainstorms and Force of Wills getting played. Consult provides an extremely powerful tool for Junk, a deck that isn't far from being able to compete. Aggro-Loam might use it, and perhaps some sort of B/x aggro deck would emerge. Some Belcher or other fast non-blue combo decks may use it as well.
Why was it banned? It is an extremely powerful tutor, restricted even in Vintage (though to be fair, it is definitely worth considering unrestricting it in Vintage this year). Does it need to stay banned? Maybe not. It does have a steep drawback; it is skill-testing; it goes in a variety of decks; it would actually be good; and it can be fun.
Verdict: Worth strongly considering
Mind Twist
One of the most infamous cards in the game's history, Mind Twist was one of the few cards ever banned in Vintage. Times have changed however, and now it is not only unbanned but unrestricted. Maybe it is time to do the same in Legacy? After all, other than Dark Ritual, what good ways are there to Mind Twist? Using traditional rituals leads to card parity. Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, and various Moxes are good, but how fast are you really going to be able to Mind Twist anyway? It's not like there is any shortage of free countermagic, and people could always use Misdirection (though admittedly, that is a blue card).
One problem with Mind Twist is that it may not be that good, but if it is, it can get unfun pretty fast. Would Junk use Mind Twist? Would Mind Twist be used exclusively in dedicated "Mind Twist decks?" Would that even be good? That can't possibly be nearly as unfair as Belcher, right? Besides, people could use anti-discard cards if they wanted, as there are plenty of them.
Verdict: Safe, but decent chance that it isn't even that good.
Land Tax
Land Tax is probably the card most requested to be unbanned by Legacy players. Is it finally time? In its favor, it is an extremely powerful card for quite a number of non-blue decks (even if it does go in some blue decks). It promotes basic land usage; it is skill-testing; it is interesting to build around; and the format is so powerful now, it is not like it is even that brutal when it works.
The problems? First of all, tournament organizers have it out for this card. It involves tons of shuffling, increased cheating, and can drag games to a crawl. It is also very powerful in a way that gets not healthy really fast.
I sympathize with the TOs who want their events to run at a reasonable pace and, out of respect for Land Tax's power, have argued against unbanning it on multiple occasions. That said, I think the time has come to give Land Tax a fair examination. Fetchlands, Brainstorming, Jace, Tops, and more leave no shortage of these types of effects in the format. I actually think Land Tax might contribute enough to the format to make up for the mild strain it puts on things. Additionally, the format has gotten so strong, it is actually reasonable to think Land Tax could exist without toppling things. Besides, if nothing else, it can throw a bone to the loyal fans who have been fighting for it for so many years. Additionally, it's not like it couldn't get banned again, if needed. I am not convinced it is the most fun card to unban, but if Consult isn't safe, Land Tax should be considered (Mind Twist is probably a gimme).
Verdict: Probably safe, but the strain it puts on tournament play makes it a longer shot. Worth strongly considering.
Worldgorger Dragon
Another random combo card that isn't actually any better than the other cards that are legal. Even with Entomb legal, it is not clear that this is even better than Reanimator targets like Iona and Jin Gitaxias. Even if it was, graveyard hate exists and is easy. Unfortunately, Worldgorger Dragon decks tend to be blue fast combo decks.
Verdict: Safe, but doesn't do what we are trying to do at all. Should be taken off at some point on principle, but we can do better if we only get to unban one card.
What do you think? Can any of these cards be unbanned? If you could unban one, which would it be? Or do you think Snapcaster Mage or Brainstorm needs to be banned? Legacy is alive and well, so it is not an absolute must that something be changed in March (at least not yet), but the way things are going, I have a suspicion a shake-up is coming...
Patrick Chapin
"The Innovator"
That was a good quick analysis, but you really underestimated Yawgmoth's Will and Strip Mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
Like many, I would like to see mass unbanings, not more banned cards.
This thread really makes me remember why I quit posting here the first time. This has gone from intelligent discussion about the power levels of Show and Tell and the relevant format power levels to people suggesting unbannings of cards like Yawgmoth's Will, Strip Mine, Gush, Hermit Druid, and Demonic Consultation. The magic community has lost their minds.
The reality of the situation is that most likely nothing's going to change. Maybe Brainstorm'll get banned, but most likely not - It's been this powerful for this long. Maybe Show and Tell will get banned, but most likely not. Wizards has a fascination with stupidly huge creatures winning games. Nothing else is a realistic candidate for banning. And maybe some strong-but-not-broken cards would get unbanned, like Land Tax, Mind Twist, or Earthcraft, but probably not. Tax would fit too well in Miracles and slow games down, which Wizards hates, and Wizards has an unnatural fear of random discard and squirrels being competitive.
So chances are nothing's going to change.
EDIT: Also, I didn't read this article, but if Pat Chapin suggests unbanning Demonic Consultation, he understands nothing about Legacy or Magic whatsoever. Demonic Consultation is the single strongest tutor card ever printed, ever, period. One mana, for an instant, to get a combo piece in your hand is just astronomically dumb. The drawback just isn't one - Just set up decks that tutor for 4 of's, and you'll lose about 1 game from exiling them all for every 300 you'd lose for not having Demonic Consultation.
Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor would like to have a word with you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I do agree that unbanning Demonic Consultation would be insane though.
Vampiric and demonic are clearly weaker. I don't how you get to that conclusion. One is a two mana sorcery and the other is card disadvantage. When your deck is built properly demonic's drawback is irrelevant probably 98% of the time.
This. You can't even remotely argue Vampiric in here - One gets you the card on top of your library, one gets you the card in your hand. MAYBE you can pitch Demonic here - 2 mana at Sorcery Speed, but no drawback, but 1 at Instant tops all in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
EDIT: I did just notice Demonic Consultation isn't banned in Commander. The idea of this is absolutely hilarious.
Vampiric and Demonic Tutors both free up a lot more deck space though. Playing Consultation requires you to play your targets as 4-ofs whereas the other two lets you play what you're tutoring for as a 1-of.
There's a reason why both Vampiric and Demonic Tutors are the first tutors Vintage decks go for as opposed to Consultation.
Half the shit you would consult in Vintage is restricted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
*wait*
Get it now?
Sure, let's go ahead and unban Demonic Consultation. It's like living the Trix dream all over again. Might even make Firestorm good again too.
I don't think the magic community has lost their minds, there are just a lot of stupid people that haven't actually played with these cards that just shit words out of their mouths and call it logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
For example, people keep telling me with a gut reaction that Mind's Desire is far too powerful to get unbanned... but they haven't actually tried to test it against the current format or they'd know how outclassed it is by Ad Nauseam in Drit combo and TS in High Tide.
EDIT:
Hard to believe Mr. Chapin would consider unbanning Demonic Consultation but honestly I don't know him or read his shit. Is he familiar with Legacy Storm combo because even if they banned LED, storm players would find a way to make it completely busted.
I remember that article, and it was a while ago. Certainly well before the rise of Thresh/Maverick/Stoneblade, and whole eons before Sneak/Show vs Thresh. Trying to use his opinions at the time and apply them to the current meta, which is now filled with cards that didn't exist (Griselbrand, Delver, Snapcaster, at the very least) which have in turn warped/created decks that didn't exist at the time, is just purely asinine. The meta is completely different on almost every level than when he wrote that.
I think Vacrix is correct, though -- I wonder how many people in here have actually played vintage seriously at any point, because if you don't play with the cards, all you're operating on is theory...and most people suck at theory.
Not so good at reading comprehension, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Chapin seriously considering consultation? How long has he been playing this game? The tutor is easily the best tutor by far in a format without restricted cards. If he was around at the time of Ice Age he should remember that.
Vampiric is way more considerable, and that's also too good when you consider you'd make decks like SnT, Reanimator and Doomdsday at least 34.2% better.
I honestly don't even think Storm would be the best Consult deck. No idea what would be, but all I know is you would need Burning Wish if you played it and that deck wouldn't be much better than current TES.
It would probably be something stupid and obnoxious like Hive Mind.
Even in a developed metagame (full of decks packing Force of Wills, Flusterstorms, and quick combo kills of their own via High Tide/Reanimator/Hive Mind), the black belcher list on stormboards with 4 Consult is something I dream about. You don't want this deck in your metagame:Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Diabolic Intent/Infernal Tutor/Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
4 Shield Sphere
4 Ornithopter
2 Phyrexian Walker
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
I wouldn't if it had an actual way to kill me.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
ban mystical tutor
unban demonic consultation
...
....
right.
Tutors that let you find kill conditions, mana, or protection (for one mana without card disadvantage and at instant speed no less) are not safe.
I leave for a day and people are talking about unbanning instant one mana demonic tutor .... :really:
So Consult->AdN, draw a billion cards, belch you (even if I have less than 20 cards left mind you, I still therapy the fuck out of you then do it again next turn).Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Who says the English language is deteriorating?Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln