The biggest failure of people in this thread is to try to jam banned cards in existing decks. Unbanned cards can spawn new archetypes, ya know :frown:
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The biggest failure of people in this thread is to try to jam banned cards in existing decks. Unbanned cards can spawn new archetypes, ya know :frown:
8-8, we drewQuote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Wouldn't the slips just be 0-0-X, where X is the number of times the Dragon player gets stuck in an infinite loop?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Its a joke on how many subgames caused by Shahrazad were won and lost.
The thing is, Divine Intervention is a logistics concern as well, but no one complains about it being legal. Sure, there's the fact Divine Intervention isn't very good, but it seems by this metric it should get banned. And players do have the option to immediately concede the game so there's no slowdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
The real issue with Shahrazad is the fact it's basically a 2-mana "target player loses half their life" which seems a little overpowered.
I think we could find a lot worse on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
New Archetypes come up from time to time. But more often than not when a new card enters the format its best home is in an established archetype.
Actually, I mean that it does a lot of damage as a bonafide burn card (and it hoses combo in those subgames). The Burning Wish idea, I think, works better in Affinity. Or heck, Dragon. You guys are sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
How can you make a generalization like that? If Survival gets unbanned is it going into maverick or are you making a Survival deck? The answer is obvious. Did Land Tax go into existing archetypes or is it a card that needs to be built around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
I tried it in 43 Lands, wasn't very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Parfait was not invented when Land tax was unbanned! Revival of an old or defunct archetype ≠ spawning a new archetype.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
How many cards see Legacy play which are less than five years old? How many brand new tier-one archetypes have we seen in the last five years as a result?
Neither Divine Intervention nor the Karn Liberated ultimate will nest games the way that Shahrazad can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
I think some very early Miracles-type decks played Land Tax, but people pretty quickly came to their senses.
For the mental exercise, and time is not on my side, I think U/R Delver & Grixis Delver, Shardless BUG, and Miracles would be the most recent, new tier decks. I forget when the pivotal namesake cards (Delver, Y. Pyro, Shardless, DRS, Terminus, angel miracle..., etc.) were released, but it feels like about 5 years ago. A wrung lower, I'd throw in TinFins and Infect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Typically, your sentiment is agreeable.
U/R counter-burn is one of the oldest archetypes in the game's history. I could also argue that Terminus and Entreat fit neatly into the existing U/W counter-top shell. Infect is just Berserk Stompy with better creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahg113
I'm not saying new archetypes never one up. Only that this is the exception when Legacy gets a new card. And often you can tell. Hymn to Tourach (if anything) will either go into a dedicated hand disruption deck (Pox) or a big mana deck like Tezzerator or dark MUD. It's not going to be built around! Mind's Desire will go into a Storm or High Tide shell. Anybody who thought Vise was going to spawn a new archetype was fooling themselves.
Also, it's kind of irrelevant! The fact that a new card might create a new and OP archetype is not a reason to fear that card. Otherwise nothing would be safe. Any argument that a card should stay banned should at the very least suggest a specific deck for that card (new or old) that might be OP.
I guarantee Divine Intervention would be banned if it had the same casting cost as Scheherazade (Sharazad lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
So would Karn Liberated, amirite?!Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumC
Yeah, and someone at Wizards would be looking for work.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
It's not a totally fair comparison, though -- Intervention could easily have been printed at WW. Back in Legends, Wizards HAD NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING. Mana Drain? Let's make that cost UU. Abyss? Uh, 3B sounds fair. Craw Giant? Oh HELL NO that's gotta cost 3GGGG! RAMPAGE OP!
It was on the ban list for a while. I imagine it would be banned even at 4 or 5 mana since all-in decks could play it as some kind of game reset effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumC
Isn't lich's mirror that card?Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
Divine Intervention does not extend the time of the game like Shahrazad. They aren't really similar in the way they force a draw. And it is the manner in which Shahrazad forces the draw that has it banned, more like Divining Top in Modern than Divine Intervention.