This simply isnt the deck to support fauna shaman + vengevine. And fauna shaman alone is far from powerfull since its way too slow and we can handle pretty well without a survival in play. I rather have a nice blue count.
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This simply isnt the deck to support fauna shaman + vengevine. And fauna shaman alone is far from powerfull since its way too slow and we can handle pretty well without a survival in play. I rather have a nice blue count.
For me, the biggest power of this deck is actually how it operates when you don't have a Survival effect on board. Winning games even when you don't have to implement your main gameplan shows how strong the deck is.
The problem I have with Fauna Shaman is finding cards to take out for it (much less Vengevine) as well as (in my experience) just how slow the Shaman is.
Another strength of Bant Survival is how powerful the deck is against Zoo. Fauna Shaman seems to really weaken that matchup.
Also, I'm not a huge fan of Vengevines - they increase your reliance upon the graveyard and Survival. The deck is designed to not rely upon Survival as much as possible (even the toolbox creatures you generally run are good without Survival).
Got a set of these in the mail today. :D
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...t/Survival.jpg
Nice! As an alterer, I'd like to praise the unique "doing the bottom borders only" approach. Its a pretty simple alter, but the results look good! Congrats!
Yeah, I wanted to do something other than the standard "turn Survival guy into something else" approach, so I figured I'd have them popped out of the border at the ground line.
Next stop is Pete Venters for signatures along the bottom in silver or gold ink. :)
Just allow four hours for the ink to dry.
Nice! I use a set of the Judge promo Survivals myself because the foiliness and the art make me happy. How much did it end up costing you to get those altered?
Jimirynk's girlfriend did them. She charges $25 per alter for pretty much anything you can think of.
what do you think about this survival bant? it's a bit different
4 Noble hierarch
2 Qasali pridmage
2 Rhox
1 Squee
2 Stoneforge mistic
1 Trygon predator
2 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Sower of temptations
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Mother of Runes
1 Iona
1 Loyal retainers
1 Kitchen finks
4 Force of will
4 Swords to the plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Survival of the fittest
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
2 Tundra
3 Tropical
2 Savannah
4 Misty rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
Sideboard
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Spell pierce
1 Meddling mage
1 LLawan , cephalid empress 1
2 Pact to exile
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Krosan grip
+1 Tarmogoyf!
If you play Sprites take 3. You want them even without Survival.
Kitchen Finks are only good against Aggro (mostly Zoo/Sligh) but Rhox War Monk does really well against that. Take a thrid of them instead of one-of Finks.
Mother of Runes aren't really good in this deck. Survival gets you more cratures if you have problem with removal and Kira would protect them MUCH better.
Stoneforge is great! :) It shines vs. all the aggro/aggro-control decks.
All in all your deck depends more on Survival [Mother without other creatures sucks, 1-of Kitchen Finks, only 2 Sprites(, Equipments)] and this is what I dislike the most. :/
Sideboard:
Crypts/Macabres > Relic/Wheel
A third Path to Exile would be nice, too.
Alright, I'm going take Bant Survival to a tournament on saturday and I'm looking for some advice on my list. The Meta will include quite a bit of Control from what I know, but after all it's a tourney with 30-40 people and I don't know everyones decks, so it's an unknown meta after all.
This is the list I wanted to bring:
// Lands
2 [5E] Forest
1 [EUL] Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [A] Savannah
4 [B] Tropical Island
4 [JGC] Windswept Heath
1 [ST] Plains
// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
1 [10E] Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
// Spells
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 3 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 2 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
I thought about playing Wonder, but Jace is so good against Control, it's not even funny anymore, so he got the nod.
Emrakul is there to fight Lands.dec, eventual Enchantress, GY hate and to refill against Control.
The Selkies are a card I like very much, they are wonderful against Merfolk, most Control decks and against Bant stuff.
Any advice/criticism?
Jak:
Would it be possible for you to post your list, either here, or on the first page. If you do update the first page, could you put the date at the top of the list each time you update it. I know the bottom of the post shows when the post was last updated, but that doesn't tell us what information in the post was updated... one would then have to assume the edit was to the list, but it doesn't mean that for sure.
As an example, you could maybe do this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sample Decklist
My decklist has been constantly changing since the day I made it. Many slots regularly change because of trying to adapt to the meta, new cards, or optimization. In all the tournaments I have been to and done well, I think every list has been slightly different. That is the beauty of Bant Survival. Without further ado, here is my list.
Bant Survival
By Jak. (updated Aug 5, 2010)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Meddling Mage
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Trygon Predator
1 Wonder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Flex Slot
Sideboard
3 Spell Pierce
3 Path to Exile
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or if Jak is not available, could someone else in the know with regards to this thread please list the current common accepted decklist?
Thanks
Has anyone else been having problems with Burn lately? Recently my meta has become infested with the stuff and I just can't seem to punch through all the hate they throw out. Leylines, Blasts, some are even packing Combust. It's horrifying. :(
There are plenty of awesome cards to answer burn strategies, if you are willing to dedicate a few SB slots:
Aegis of Honor
Warmth
Leyline of Sanctity
Kor Firewalker
Burrengton Forge-Tender
Chill
Aegis of Honor is decent, if you are staring at Leyline of Punishment too often: it doesn't prevent damage or gain you life.
Chill just slows them down so much that you have time to win first.
Leyline of Sanctity is gg, but makes mulliganing a bit complicated.
The other options are also good, but not so when the burn player has a leyline. Much like Rhox War Monk.
Also, do you find yourself having trouble getting Iona to stick? They should have no answer for that.
I dont see the problem vs. burn. You have Survival, which is Auto-GG, if you get Iona into play. Also you play Rhox War Monk maindeck and they can't race it. Swording your own (if possible Exalted) Goyf will also buy you another turn, and Force of Will too.
For game two it really doesnt matter if they bring in hate. They can't hate Iona AND your lifegain. If they have Combust, Leyline and Blast in hand - guess what, they die to Iona because they just won't kill you. Every SB card they draw sets them back a turn.
But if your Meta is really burn infested and you want something especially against Burn: the best card ever printed vs. Burn is clearly Chill. It is not even close, they just can't do anything about it except for blue blast. And it is not that bad against Goblins, either (though there are clearly better cards): IF you are able to handle Vial/Lackey it will usually win.
Edit: Forgot about the new Leyline. That is awesome too, and it also helps vs most Combo.
This is generally the problem. Usually one of three things happens - I either don't ever see Survival; or they go first and kill me turn 3; or Survival gets Pithing Needled and I lose to Leyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Cut Spellstutter Sprite. That card is terrible, especially against control. Run some Meddling Mage instead --- they can ruin a control player's day. I can't imagine why you'd need two Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in the 75. One should probably be something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
It sounds like you're just getting unlucky. Between Rhox War Monk, Survival, and Iona you should win most of your games with or without sideboard help.Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
Yeah, I never really had much of a problem against Burn.
I also ran 4x Rhox War Monk main though (I really wanted to crush the Zoo matchup).
Even if they have Leyline out, you can still pop it with Pridemage and Trygons, not to mention that your guys are still massive blockers to any creatures they may have on top of being decently fast clocks themselves.
There are plenty of sideboard cards others have mentioned if you really need to beat Burn. (Aegis of Honor is just dirty pool, sir! I like it!)
@Nidd: I'm also not a fan of Spellstutter Sprite at all. It costs you 1UG (if you have Survival out) to counter a 1 mana cost spell. The body is hardly impressive and Bant Survival doesn't really run equipment to make the evasion important. I also believe you should have at least 1 Gilded Drake or Sower (I think Drake is better) to steal all those Emrakuls, Ionas, etc. flying around these days. I'm not a huge fan of Emrakul or Wonder myself. The deck is designed to have as few cards that are dead without Survival, as possible, and I prefer to try and keep it as low as possible. With perpetual Rhoxes and Goyfs, you can beat through almost any ground war and if things get stalled out, you have the Iona option (really, I usually just go for that first).
I also like to have 3+ Krosan Grip in the board because CounterBalance can be such a difficult matchup for us.
Probably right. I guess I need to mulligan more aggressively in this match, since I hate to fuck up my sideboard hating on a monocolored deck when there's so much other shit I need the SB slots for in my meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuma
I'm torn between SSS and MM. It's my first time playing Bant Survival outside of testing groups and the setting is quite competitive. MM requires a larger knowledge of the interactions between the deck and the opponent's deck, but is stronger overall, while SSS seems to be the choice for an unexperienced player like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuma
However, the best way to learn how to play with MM is to run it, so yeah, I guess I'll run MM if you 2 suggest it.
People at my play group already suggested Sower but I think Drake is better, he's just plain faster. I guess he can take 1 Kira slot, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
As I said, Emrakul is there to handle Enchantress/Lands. I know that 2 people will play Enchantress, it's a famous petdeck in Germany and pretty much every 5th player has one. Also, I think he is nice to protect your precious GY - or is this too cool to be good?
I've cut Wonder from my list for Jace. I've got the feeling that the meta will include a good bunch of Control and Jace is a bomb against decks with a slow clock.
3 K Grip have been included before, but I've cut 1 for... 1 Kira, I think. CounterTop isn't as prevalent in Germany as it is in America, from what I know. A Dreadstill deck T8s on a regular basis, though. So I might face him later on if I don't scrub around too much.
I had an idea for the Merfolk MU, maybe some of you folks who have more experience than I do can help me out on this:
My idea was to play a 1-of Scryb Ranger MB. It has Protection from Blue and protects the manabase from Wastelands. Basically, this enables me to fetch for a tropical Island in the Merfolk MU and then i have to fight to get my Scryb on the board, which will then be able to block Coralhelm Commander all day or can handle the Jitte if I can't remove it.
Plus, that small guy looks like a sick combat trick.
I'd play him instead of 1 Ponder, which would leave me with 4 Brainstorm and 1 Ponder. Is this feasible?
For the better understanding, here's my revamped list (thank you for the help so far!):
// Lands
2 [5E] Forest
1 [EUL] Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [A] Savannah
4 [B] Tropical Island
4 [JGC] Windswept Heath
1 [ST] Plains
// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
3 [ARB] Meddling Mage
1 [10E] Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
// Spells
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [LRW] Ponder
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 3 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 2 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt