Yeah, Counterbalance stays in against Zoo. I only board it out against Vials.
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Yeah, Counterbalance stays in against Zoo. I only board it out against Vials.
We've got some merfolk in hereand finks is good against that to, and against gobblins^^
It just kills 2 merfolks/gobblins so it ain't bad and it gives you live, if you got alot of zoo i woudn't play it indeed but we don't have that alot so...
Don't you guys ever get sick of those neverending discussions about the Zoo matchup? People talk about it like it's the most fearful deck to play against! Not only countertop players, but any player (regardless the deck) seems to complain and whine about the Zoo matchup. I just don't understand why we put that much energy in it. Just play Firespout and Volcanics or don't. If that doesn't work enough for you to win the game, then play a different deck.
I fear Eva Green more than Zoo.
KoTR kinda needs either 9 fetchlands or wastelands to support him. We have neither, so I am reluctant to include him. Plus he is also graveyard reliant, which I do not like. Goyf alone is enough. We know those relics are coming in in some match ups..Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost
No, I'm saying Monk + Firespout is strong against Goblins. Monk alone is strong against Goblins. Firespout alone.., not so much. It doesn't matter if you have CBT lock on them or not because their removal is (in my opinion) superior to zoo (against us).
Hmm.. Then I guess they are. My teammates play a combination of 4 pridemages and 2 grips or 3 pridemages and 3 grips. Eitherway, the pridemages aren't that big of a deal if they land early and aren't that bad if I've set up already since I have like 14 two drops. Grip is somewhat more annoying but I guess they just use it poorly. I'm not too sure. Maybe I'll let them know about upping the Kgrip then.. thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
Dude, I think that's kinda the point for a discussion board and since Zoo is a deck to beat, it kind of matters. What in eva do you fear? Anything that goes past goyf can be plowed. Anything that isn't a goyf can be blocked. Discard is annoying up until CBT is set up. I'm more afraid of fighting prison decks.. LOL.. those are annoying because everything goes over CBT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deady
8 fetchlands and 2 Horizon Canopy seems plenty to support his size.Quote:
KoTR kinda needs either 9 fetchlands or wastelands to support him.
Well, he doesn't die from a Relic, and can pump himself back up after a Relic. If the opponent thinks Relic is a better answer to your creatures than real creature removal, I'd say you're probably in a good position anyway.Quote:
We know those relics are coming in in some match ups..
Neither RWM nor Firespout stop Goblins card advantage engines but at least Spout does something about their board state. Not being able to block Piledriver is hugely relevant. I'd much, much, much rather have Firespout against Goblins than the Monk.
Moving on, agreed with Deady about the Zoo matchup. I have yet to lose to it on the back of pretty much Firespout alone (this is with my UGR list with Sower/T. Mage/EE/Shackles as other removal options). If you're having a lot of problems with that matchup either run Jesse's CB Horizon's removal package (5-6 swords + EE) or maindeck the Spout.
Why not play both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost
The CB deck I've been throwing against the locals who are going to the GP has them and it seems to work out decently:
// Lands
1 [B] Underground Sea
3 [U] Tropical Island
3 [U] Volcanic Island
3 [A] Tundra
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [RAV] Forest (2)
1 [OD] Plains (3)
2 [IN] Island (2)
// Creatures
4 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [SHM] Firespout
2 [DLM] Counterspell
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [M10] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [CH] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
Do you ever find that you don't have enough threats? Also, how are the Extirpates working out? What do you find yourself using it on the most? Interesting list.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Why not play 2 jace :O?
They're so good, replace it with the ponders or something else..
Really try it :)
do you play canopy in your deck? I do not..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
I know he doesn't die from relic. I'm just saying I wouldn't want my knight to take collateral from yard hate though. KoTR is strong if you build a deck that can use it. I'm just saying Monk isn't a bad substitute.
I quite like Jesse Hatfield's deck from SCG philly
I'm counting a maximum of 9 cards with CC2 remaining in your deck when you have 1 Counterbalance out. Spell Snares CAN raise the count to 13, but even that is still not enough to have a good abuse of CB. That's basically the same design fail I am criticizing about Supreme Blue for like... ever? It's no wonder why Firespout is so important since you have to reset the boardposition over and over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Having just 9 CC2 spells makes it easier for the opponent to nuke your CB with Qasali Pridemages (obv. you can flip a CC2 card, but I'm saying that the odds for that are reduced drastically with that config).
I'm assuming you mean with a CB already on the table. I agree that regular supreme blue decks have that problem of not being able to hard lock someone out of the game with just CBT on the table, but his list looks good. I mean with 13 ways to hit 2 drops, that's really strong. I think that's more than Kazuho's supreme blue. Not only that, it has 6 HARD counters (not inclluding Spell Snare for two drops) as opposed to most CB decks that would have to rely more heavily on CBT lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
If anything, I think his biggest problem would be the mirror since he plays no dazes. Going into a counter war would be devastating early on. His removal is better than the traditional, but I think he'll have trouble fending off against an enemy counterbalance since he doesn't play jace 2.0, sower of temptation, elspeth or trygon predator.
I guess that's what the Blood Moons and Kgrips are for.. LOL
Is this a primer? Where are the actual boarding plans or matchup explanaitions for hm... let's say NoBant.
And please not this Firespout nonsense, thats Supreme Blue.
I really like 3 PTE's, 2 Llawan (for progenitus and merfolk) and 3 dueling grounds because it let's you win the aggro matchup :)
Also 2 jace ain't bad either if you don't play them main...
2 krosan grip is always good
I've been playing with ten for a long time. This is not an issue. Use your shuffle effects correctly, or play more of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
I play 9 fetchlands and 12 cmc2, and I wish frequently I played 14 or 15 of them... but I also don't want to play less than 5 cmc3, so I have to stay with 12, which uses to be the limit to have more than 50% possibilities hitting a cmc2 card with top I guess
Code:3 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Predict
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pernicious Deed
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catatombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Ley-Line of the Void
2 Spell Pierce
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Pithing Needle
I got talked into playing this at a 130-ppl-tournament this weekend, started throwing it together (and borrowing cards...) 20 mins before registration ended and finished 6:2.
Wins vs Zoo (2:1), UW-Tempo (2:1), TES (2:0), Canadian (2:0), Lands (2:1), NO-Bant (2:1)
Losses vs Zoo (1:2), Merfolk (1:2)
Lost both matches when I did not draw a single removal in the deciding game.
Against Merfolk I had 2x Engineered Plague out, but did not find a removal for his second lord :(
Overall Predict was the only disappointing card in the maindeck, it just was too slow and required too much setup. Boarded it for more specific cards most of the time.
Jace was often boarded out as well, but he had his share of the cake when I landed him in the last match vs Bant and he held the ground until I got a Tombstalker.
I like your deck but I really don't like the Predict, what do you think is a good replacement?
Ponders maybe or maybe no draw and you can play something els?
And congratz with your achievement :D
Thx, although it's certainly nothing special ;)
I figured, if I ever were to run this again, I'd replace the Predicts with Ponders or more business.
Perhaps another D. Edict, the 2nd Deed or some of ye olde Counterspell.
I'd also add some Doom Blades to the sideboard, for the Zoo and Merfolk decks out there. Not sure what I'd cut, because all of the cards were rather important somewhere.
And have you tested dark confidant?
I think he's like a beast in this deck..
Maybe play him :O??