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Depends on your Meta.
Except for Moat and Enchantress-stuff, i would say that a mix of Perish and Nature's Ruin is worth more. If you run into Bant / GW Maverick and all the other good stuff, those Sorceries are the better choice. You will most likely trade 2 for 1, while Dystopia trades 1for1 (Pridemage / Trygon / stuff)
My meta is pretty wide open, but the winning decks of course are zoo, NO Bant, NO Rug, NO Bug, Hivemind Combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411
so are u saying i should take out dystopia for virtue's ruin? and find another 3 slots for Perish?
here's my decklist
creatures (16)
4x dark confidant
4x abyssal persecutor
4x gatekeeper of malikar
4x vampire nighthawk
sorcery (14)
3x innocent blood
4x hymn to tourach
4x duress
3x cabal therapy
instant (3)
3x go for the throat
artifacts (3)
2x umezawa's jitte
1x sword of light and shadow
enchantment (3)
3x bitterblossom
Land (21)
17x swamp
4x wasteland
sideboard
3x dystopia
4x extirpate
3x perish
2x faerie macrebe
3x thorn of amethyst
Depending on the number of Dystopia, I would think the correct play would be to pull those a combination of Perish and Nature's Ruin in those spots.
You don't really need to mix them, but varied hate is a good practice. 3 Perish would be just as good as 2 Perish, 1 Nature's ruin or vice versa because the decks you bring it in against typically aren't Cabal Therapying you or landing Meddling Mage chanting Perish.
edit: You ninja'd me.
To everybody who dropped (like me) persecutor and therapy for obliterator and other discard/removal:
How do you feel about that change?
Personally I played obliterator a lot and together with discard he is nuts. I think it was a good change. Ok a persecutor tramples, flies and stalls the air... but I feel that obliterator is just the card we needed;)
You see my sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims
How can i find some space for Perish/nature's ruin? I don't really see enchantress or moat decks. But against moat, I have fliers.
he's too pricy for me right now. I'm waiting for him to rotate or drop in price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph2k
Here's something to consider: Abyssal Persecutor can block Coralhelm Commander.
My bitterblossom tokens can block him too, while obliterator is beating the fish out of my opponent... And I don't have to kill my own dude.
About the price:
Just checked the price. Indeed obliterators price raised. Bought mine for a moderate price to give him a chance. And never had bad feelings about the money I spent for him.
@Hollywood:
You still test the deck? Have you a up-to-date list?
I haven't tested or played with the deck since the Open Series came to Richmond in December; Legacy has certainly changed quite a bit since then. Counterbalance is no longer an issue, Survival has been banned for quite some time, and I feel the deck has the chance to do well in an unprepared meta. I'm gearing right now towards a very explosive "Steel Stompy" variant I've been testing for close to half a year now to a great deal of success. The Gate might peak my interest again someday, but I played it for a long time so I just kind of set it aside for now.
Dystopia is, in my experience, the best card in the deck. It's a meta call, but I wouldn't get rid of it for anything as it is too multifaceted in today's general overall meta.
so you'd suggest running dystopia and perish alongside one anotherQuote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
If you're situated in a Green heavy meta, then yes. Dystopia I've found to have more success with against those decks than Perish, as Dystopia also hits White permanents, which is incredibly relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
There are other cards like Virtue's Ruin I've tested to some success in the past, but again, it depends largely on your meta...and whether or not you run Wastelands (remember, Dystopia is 1BB as opposed to 2B from Perish and can be relevant).
Thanks manQuote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
Your steel stompy deck might have a problem beating the gate. Question. Why did you name this The Gate
It honestly just sounded cool and I used it as a nickname for Gatekeeper of Malakir. Kind of just fell into place that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
has anyone tried playing against Hivemind? This deck completely folds to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph2k
i just recently drop persecutor and therapy for a full play set and i added swords in the list.. Obliterator is nuts! accompanied with a jitte or any sword i think he is as good (or much better) than percy as of now but im not saying that percy is bad at all so,my list haven't change a lot i still run bitterblossom and what im brewing now is having 5 equipments in my list supporting by a bitterblossom, we don't run out of creatures to equip with. in my playtest with my team mates (naming Bant, U/W Counterbalance, faeries, white weenie and MONO U faeries) my list goes fairly well on them
Yes, I did and I lost THAT close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
It was a strange match though and I pulled off the first round without even knowing what he was doing.
In the second game I got him down to 11 when his combo resolved and I thought "aha - interesting".
In the last game he gets his Leyline out from the start which cost me the match 1 round before his death, because no discard slowing was going on. I just didn't expect it (and didn't face this decktype before).
I played with a quite "old" list, because of the down slowing Legacy meta at the moment.
The Gate just rocks against Maverick btw., which might get us a new great spot to rely on :).
Back to Hive Mind:
I think its quite winnable if you can manage to pull his keycards and counters off aggressively.
I found Cabal Therapy to be a house here. It absorbs 2 Counters in 2 rounds, just amazing and thats something I wanted to test in the last weeks. With success.
Its much better than IoK (and even Duress sometimes) if played correctly and puts a huge pressure on your (mostly blue) opponent. I didn't regret its include once in the small tournament last week (outcome: 5th; 17 players, first time ever, open meta, so what).
After ripping away his hand, the race about dropping his to 0 HP begins before his combo resolves. It can be won with Percy/Obliterator/Bob and Blossom+Jitte.
The only Problem will be his Leyline, which we have to find an answer for from game 2 on.
Dystopia might do its job well again here, but it does not resolve until turn 3.
Thats the problem we will have to work upon.
Another impression on this match: Wasteland is awesome here. It slows him down extremely buying us time because it kills lands like City of Traitors.
Has anyone thought about Null Rod or Needle against Grim Monolith?
I've been away from The Gate a little, while I still work in my monoblack aggro-control (not quite The Gate, but similar base) sometimes.
Recently, in testings, Phyrexian Revoker has been one of the single most powerful cards in my MD, I don't regreat running 4, ever. Anyone has tryed to MD Revokers in The Gate already?
[edit]
Something else, I know how much I defended Wasteland in monoblack decks in general, and @ the gate, but lately I came to think how underpowered it is in current meta. Not only it opens for opposing wastelands to screw us, but also, current decks are running more reliable manabases, with manadorks, GSZ->Arbor, and since everyone is now focusing on midgame cards like Reliquary, people tend to run more lands.
How do people feel about Wasteland these days?
I stopped playing them in TheGate a long time ago, and can just underline their weakness at this point.
You hardly ever want to symetrically destroy your and your opponents land count - he will recover fetching into the needed color again, while you won't be able to get to 4 mana fast enough to drop a Fatso. In the worst case your opponent has a manadork like Noble Hierarch which you also would have to remove to consistantly disrupt his manabse.
Also, there are few tool lands out there that really beg to be wasted..... or do i miss anything that wasteland "fixes" here?
BUT if you play with Revokers, it can be a whole different story. Waste on a dual, Revoker on Hierarch -> this can be a hard time for NO-RUG-alikes.
But then again, i don't think manadenial does work nowadays anyway. And most decks can actually operate very well on less mana than TheGate can.
In conclusion, i'd still abandon Wastelands in TheGate
What about Revokers? And have anyone been trying Dismembers?Quote:
Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411
I'm going to play The Gate in GP Amsterdam and my list is:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Innocent Blood
3 Dismember
3 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
18 Swamp
SB
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Dystopia
3 Pithing Needle
6 undesided slots
Undesided slots may have Null Rods, Spinning Darknessess, 4th copies of cards, or some hate against Hive Mind in some combination.
I'm quite happy with my mainboard, but SB is still quite open. What I'd like to get there is some hate against Hive Mind combo, because I'm expecting to face some of them and I can't do anything to a resolved white Leyline. Dystopia will destroy it, but it simply lands too late and I can't expect to race them without disruption happening. I'd like to hear any suggestions to my SB especially anything that could work against Hive Mind.
About Wastelands. My plan is to disrupt and kill their men first couple of turns and then start dropping threats of my own. Wastelands help that plan simply by slowing my opponent down a bit.
i have seen some sadistic sacrament and vampire hexmage and phyrexian crusader as sideboard cards in some italian lists