Because it's not subjective. Each card does something specific and contributes a specific amount to the percentage of getting a keepable hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
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Because it's not subjective. Each card does something specific and contributes a specific amount to the percentage of getting a keepable hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
It is totally subjective because that table there and the evaluation based on it are based on YOUR definitions of "good" in this deck.
it isn't only HIS definition of "good" in this deck, it is the definition of what this deck tries to do, and wants to do to win the game, namely: start dredging as fast as possible. Of course there will be situations where you will want to slowroll the dredge, like if your opponent plays a tormod's crypt on his first turn fe. But these situations are unaccountable for.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
If you'd glance over the list of ideal opening hands you'll notice that they all allow you to start dredging by the draw step of your second turn at the latest. So if you take that as a ruler for consistency, then all you have to do is figure out all the different combinations of opening hands that will allow you to do so, and calculate the chance of having any one of those opening hands in your initial seven. (MATH)
If you want to claim that this is still subjective, then you probably want to change the ruler by which consistency is measured, (for example: I want have 10 2/2 zombies by turn 3) Then you have to figure out all the possible combinations of cards on the top of your deck (initial seven + whatever you draw/dredge) that will allow you to do that in the time frame of 3 turns (not withstanding shuffle effects), and figure out the probability that at any given time the top of your deck will have one of those combinations of cards in the right order. (MATH AGAIN)
Now of course if you would want to decide when to take a mulligan, or which strategy is the best to follow with this deck if your definition of consistency is to have X zombies by turn Y, good luck. It's easier and it makes more sense to define consistency on the actual goals of the deck and on information that you can get out of your opening hand, allowing you to consistently keep those hands that are "good" and to consistently mulligan those hands that might get you 10 zombies by turn 3 if the top cards of the deck are going your way...
Now Putrid Imp is mathematically Inferior to a Dredger if you follow the above list of ideal opening hands, just count how many times you need a dredger, and how many times you need an Imp or equivalent.
You're right. How foolish of me to think that Dredging is what this deck wants to do. We should cut all the cards with Dredge for Brainstorm and Force of Will or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
That's not what I meant. But PImp +Dredger creates better hands than double Dredger or 1 Drawspell + Dredger. Being a house against 2/3 of the artifact hate we might face is a bonus.
You can't dredge without a dredger in the graveyard, PImp is valuable for many reason but making an arbitrary little card matrix that doesn't show any "maths" isn't going to show this there are too many variables to consider.
Sure. But the LEDless list I posted gets something like a 72% chance to get a hand that can discard and cast a draw spell. And the list I'm testing does even better. The whole point is: why settle for Putrid Imp plus nothing when you can have the whole burrito?Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
So, I was playing in GP Ghent the last two days. After being happy with the quadlaser (but not to 100%) and also Hollywoods list (also not 100%) I decided to throw together a pile that has the configuration of cards I'd like to have.
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
→ 12
4 Bridge from Below
→ 4
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
→ 4
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
1 Griselbrand
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
→ 22
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
→ 17
1 Darkblast
→ 1
→ → 60
Sideboard:
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Nether Shadow
3 Firestorm
4 Nature's Claim
→ → 15
The list wasn't tested before the tournament (yay friday evening). Scrubbed out of the mainevent pretty fast (going 1-3 drop, winning against RUG, then losing against Merfolk, Elves and Loam with insane draws. Had pretty much all game 3's under control, but here comes the Crypt from the top).
Then played the 300€ Legacy sideevent, going 3-2 (playing against Goblins, I win game one, he mulligans to four without hate, rips Crypt from the top in the second turn after I dredged basicly everything -Narcomoebas and goes Lackey -> Siege Gang.
Guess I made a few mistakes because I was very tired, but still got incredible unlucky in both tournaments (if you want to cry with me, I could post some more of the situations ;D).
Well, another day, another tournament with a big number in its name, so 1500€ Legacy Championship it is.
Went 7-1-1, getting fifth of 400 - 500 players I think. Top8 (all judges + all players but one) wanted to split and just go home. So we had to play. Obv, I was paired against him (Bant, board with 3 Extractions, Relic and Crypt, 1 Ooze main).
He wins the roll, plays Hierarch, I darkblast it. He has turn two Ooze, I have Griselbrand and 9 Tokens.
Mulligan to six on game two, he starts with land, go. I therapy him, but get pierced. In his turn, he goes land, Zenith for 1, I cast Therapy on him again, hitting double Extraction and seeing Ooze and Land in his hand. He gets Ooze, I Firestorm Ooze and Hierarch away, start to get a Dredger into my yard and he topdecks Relic. Turns out his last card in hand was KotR also. So yeah, though luck again.
Game 3, I go to six and keep 2 Lands, 4 Drawspells. This might have been a mistake, as I do not find a Dredger until his T4 Ooze hits the table. Yeah, I don't know what hand he kept, but he didn't have a single piece of hate.
Well, taking 100€ store credit with me (worth about ~70€ at the store though :/) was still ok.
Few thought on the list: While Griselbrand was sometimes win more, he also won me some games. Elesh Norn is just incredible and the Firestorms were just godlike (had a starting hand with 3 Storms against Elves, he wasn't happy). All in all, I was pretty happy, having killed with each target at least ones (-Grisel, opps conceded most of the time). Sadly, I couldn't test the Faerie Macabres.
If you want, I can try to get a report from the top of my head.
Greetings,
Florian
Hello,
I played the GP Ghent this weekend with the standard Quadlaser build. Here's a list against which decks I played:
Day 1:
Round 1: UW Terminus (2-1)
Round 2: Sneak Show (0-2)
Round 3: Dredge (2-0)
Round 4: GW Maverick (2-1)
Round 5: GW Maverick (2-1)
Round 6: Canadian (0-2)
Round 7: Sneak Show (2-1)
Round 8: Belcher (2-1)
Round 9: Sneak Show (2-0)
7-2-0
Day 2:
Round 10: Canadian (2-0)
Round 11: Canadian (2-0)
Round 12: Esper Blade (1-2)
Round 13: Canadian (2-1)
Round 14: Reanimator (2-1)
Round 15: MUD (2-0)
Round 16: Hypergenesis (1-2)
12-4-0
So, I placed 37th out of over 1.300 players, gaining $ 200 and, more important, one Pro Point, which is quite a nice result. I even think I'm the best placed Dredge player. Timo Schünemann, a friend of mine and inventor of the Quadlaser build, won the GP with ANT. This is also a deck that seems like fun.
I think I'll write a full tournament report in the couple of days.
Congrats!
There were also two top 8 finishes at the SCG event yesterday:
Bloodghasts, Sun Titan/FKZ, Painterstone SB
Quadlazer with Ashen Ghoul SB
Wonder if that was Que with the quadlazer list?Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry023
He mentioned he was going to bring it to SCG Las Vegas.
Yeah. I top 8'd SCG Las Vegas.
My matches were as follows:
Round 1: Dream Halls (James ?) (2-0)
Round 2: Dredge (Jason B. Top 8) (2-0)
Round 3: Sneak & Show (Eddie ?) (2-1)
Round 4: U/W Miracles (Joe Lossett) (2-1)
Round 5: Enchantress (Tyrell Kizer Top 16) (2-0)
Round 6: Maverick (Jacob Koby Kory 2-0)
Round 7: Belcher (Joshua Wiitanen Top 8) (0-2) Got paired down and he had to play.
Round 8: ID with Brian Moss. My tie Brakers were in the high 70%s so I felt comfortable that I would be a 19 pointer that would make it in.
When Top 8 was announced I was 7th seed.
I'll probably write something later for this. I have a day off from work and I'm going to enjoy it.
@Brot. Godamn good show sir. 37th out of 1.300 players is nothing to scoff at. Congrats dude! Way to rep
Congrats on the performances, gentlemen. Lots of big tournament action here this week and the D.C. Open next week.
Because there's keepable hands outside of your matrix, primarily keepable hands based around Putrid Imp and Lion's Eye Diamond where you have a consistent discard/dredge outlet and an inevitable draw spell by turn X.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your set of assumptions, but there's a greater range of playable hands that require Putrid Imp than your matrix implies.
What list are you testing out of curiosity, I've been trying to get Pimpless Dredge to work forever and never had any luck, is that the direction you're moving in for your added consistency?
I just read the SCG matchup with you against Maverick in the top four. What a bummer. Some kind of foreshadowing you wrote there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
No. He could easily won both games if he would have mulliganed further down. Turn 1 PImp isn't going to cut it.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Still it's nice to see Quadlaser making its waves in the us:) Good Job!
Where can I find the coverage? Can you post a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Thanks in advance.
Greetings
Stephan
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...pgnt12/welcomeQuote:
Originally Posted by SWindolph
There you go.
By the way Brot_Ohne_Kruste, why did Timo said Dredge betrayed him (on his profile)?
Seems like he lost with it some times in a row, then he decided to play something else. Someone else could confirm this tho....Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
Yeah, that's right. Even though he played always good, the last tournaments ended something like 1-3-drop, 0-3-drop and 0-4-drop. I don't really remember, if there were any other bad results, but since May the deck really doesn't perform well for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
@sperry023, Que and Hollywood: Thank you :).