[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

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Originally Posted by scrumdogg

Don't get me wrong, even though I love critters (especially green critters) I would love for Perish to be better than it is. But when looked upon as a lone answer/sweeper (as opposed to part of a crafted package of control) it is not as good as one would like in current Legacy.

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On the contrary, scrum:

Perish is actually VERY good in Legacy these days:

1.) It's casting-cost is versatile; requiring only one black. It also costs three, making it a little trickier to get countered off a Counterbalance.

2.) It can kill the likes of:

a. Progenitus
b. Tarmogoyf
c. Nimble Mongoose
d. Elf Survival variants
e. Terravore
f. Birds of Paradise
g. Wild Nactal
h. Gaddock Teeg
i. Qasali Pridemage
j. Watchwolf

A lot of decks currently in the format run 4-of's of the card listed above, with the exception of Progenitus - who by himself would warrant a Perish. So you'd assume knocking off more than one guy is the ideal move. It's basically an under-costed, one-sided Wrath of God against the right deck. It should not be overlooked and not labeled as "not as good", because it is about as efficient a mass-hose removal spell as you'll find.

Perish seems like it would be a valid sideboard option in decks not running Goyfs themselves. It does have the downside that you also need other sweepers available for the decks that Scrum mentioned. Engineered Plague, Firespout, Pyroclasm or some other sweeper is required.

The question is whether or not the matchup against the decks that Perish specifically hits is bad enough to warrant using it (and black as a splash) versus just using the red splash for Firespout or Pyroclasm?

The advantage that Dreadstill (all builds) have against the meta right now is the combination of consistency and raw power that it brings to the table. In that context you really want sideboard cards to enhance both qualities not water them down. Perish is very powerful, but does it create inconsistency by taking up valuable sideboard slots for matchups that the deck has similar solutions for while being inapplicable to several other matchups?

On the other side of the argument: does Merfolk basically beat Dreadstill even with Firespouts boarded in? If so, then maybe the black splash and Perish (not used vs Merfolk) and Engineered Plague in the sideboard are worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

On the contrary, scrum:

Perish is actually VERY good in Legacy these days:

1.) It's casting-cost is versatile; requiring only one black. It also costs three, making it a little trickier to get countered off a Counterbalance.

2.) It can kill the likes of:

a. Progenitus
b. Tarmogoyf
c. Nimble Mongoose
d. Elf Survival variants
e. Terravore
f. Birds of Paradise
g. Wild Nactal
h. Gaddock Teeg
i. Qasali Pridemage
j. Watchwolf

A lot of decks currently in the format run 4-of's of the card listed above, with the exception of Progenitus - who by himself would warrant a Perish. So you'd assume knocking off more than one guy is the ideal move. It's basically an under-costed, one-sided Wrath of God against the right deck. It should not be overlooked and not labeled as "not as good", because it is about as efficient a mass-hose removal spell as you'll find.

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Perish is a pretty solid card against the right deck. Due to how a ton of the meta consists of Merfolk now though why opt for it over Spout? I realize it's a ton cheaper and destroys All green creatures right there on the spot. But I'd rather have a card I'd feel would be more useful to Zoo/Merfolk. These are not easy matches for Dreadstill.

And after all, i do NOT want to tell you all, that black is basically the better splash in the Sideboard...
I love Red Blasts, i like the Idea of Blood Moon and i think Pyroclasm / Spout are great cards too (even if I personally dislike Spout if not playing G...)
I only say that with a black splash you are better on the Matchups that are not so good (naming Decks with big green beatsticks)
Against Merfolg, Firespout is for sure better then Pyroclasm and Plague together, i have to admit this...

I'm not completely advocating the use of Perish in the board; I'm just explaining my belief that it is a good solution in the right board and metagame.

But when you have space for a set (or less) of one sweeper in the SB, which is better, Spout or Perish? Of the list you provided, the only critters not answered by Spout in a Ugr list are Progenitus, Terravore & Goyf. Of those 3, the only one that sees significant play is Goyf, and in a Ugr list you would be killing your own with Perish. Now, in a theoretical Ub or Ubr or Ubg list (which I don't believe anyone uses...) Perish might be better, except in the Ubg, which would want to utilize Goyf no doubt. Perish is a fine card, but does nothing (nooooooothinggggg) to Merfolk or Ichorid & not enough to Zoo.

Or be smart - run Relic of Progenitus and Firespout. Yeah it's 2 cards, but you run Trinket Mage and tons of cantrips. Then counter Natural Order against Prog decks or outpace them.

@Scrum - of course Perish does nothing against Ichorid; but Plague, which is too in the board, does more against ichorid then Firespout (since u have EE for the Tokens you can simply take out Narcomoebas and Ichorides...)

A Dreadstill entered top8 and placed 6th in a 78 people tournament in Italy.

This is the top 8:

Merfolk
Landstill
8Pox
The Rock
Bant
Dreadstill
Canadian Threshold
Bant

and this is his list (Nicolò Battistuzzi):

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [R] Tropical Island
4 [UG] Island
1 [U] Underground Sea

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [SC] Stifle

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty

Question... Is a Mono-U Dreadstill deck workable? I'm thinking of building this Mono-U first to keep it within my budget, then splash colors as I save for duals and fetches. Also, what would a Mono-U Dreadstill deck look like?

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Question... Is a Mono-U Dreadstill deck workable? I'm thinking of building this Mono-U first to keep it within my budget, then splash colors as I save for duals and fetches. Also, what would a Mono-U Dreadstill deck look like?

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MUC Dreadstill loses Engineered Explosives and with that likely Trinket Mages as well. I'm not sure what it would look like but it probably loses the consistency that is Dreadstill's hallmark at the moment.

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

MUC Dreadstill loses Engineered Explosives and with that likely Trinket Mages as well. I'm not sure what it would look like but it probably loses the consistency that is Dreadstill's hallmark at the moment.

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I think I'll still be keeping the Trinket Mages, but probably as just 3 at the maximum as it still gets Dreadnought, SDT, and EE/Needle if I choose to run those MD. EE for 0 or 1 is still a good play in the format, at the very least.

Maybe I could run another beater alongside Dreadnought, something along the lines of Morphling (which I wouldn't).

EDIT: Sample list off the top of my head.

14 Island (will change 4 of these to fetchlands right away for added shuffle effects after I build the rest of the deck, if I continue with it)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm

4 SDT
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

SB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
4 Propaganda
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Hydroblast

What's the plan against opposing Counterbalances? You have no way to deal with opposing permanents with CMC > 1 after they land and this is going to work against you with most of the meta. Another example would be Qasali Pridemage, one of those lands against you and you're staring at a 2 for 1 with Dreadnought or a DoA COunterbalance and no way to avoid it unless they attack into a Mishra's or Mage - which will be unlikely once they know exactly what the Pridemage is staving off.

Well, I guess the only defense I'd have against all those would be Spell Snare. I might have to up that to 4, dropping... the 1 Trickbind? BTW... What are the plans of regular (e.g. with splashes) Dreadstill builds against Counterbalance and Qasali Pridemage?

I know it's not the best incarnation of the deck, but I'm just trying to work within what I can realistically build. If it really doesn't work, then I'll just test other decks.

// Lands
9 [APL] Island (3)
4 [TSP] Terramorphic Expanse
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)

// Creatures
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [SC] Stifle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

Pretty close to an intense of a budget list possible without actually having Fetchies/Duals. OBviously your first priority would be to get fetchies ASAP and 1 dual then run 3x Firespouts board.

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

4 [TSP] Terramorphic Expanse

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:really:

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Originally Posted by keys

:really:

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It's a budget "fetchland," and I'm being generous by saying that.

Kinda weird that he brought up the Mono-U Version. I actually came to the thread wondering if a UW version was viable. I'm running UWb Wishstill right now, but I just had a buddy lend me 4 Noughts (yeah, pretty sweet, huh?). I kinda wanna give it a shot if possible.

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Originally Posted by Morbid-

It's a budget "fetchland," and I'm being generous by saying that.

Kinda weird that he brought up the Mono-U Version. I actually came to the thread wondering if a UW version was viable. I'm running UWb Wishstill right now, but I just had a buddy lend me 4 Noughts (yeah, pretty sweet, huh?). I kinda wanna give it a shot if possible.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morbid-

Kinda weird that he brought up the Mono-U Version. I actually came to the thread wondering if a UW version was viable. I'm running UWb Wishstill right now, but I just had a buddy lend me 4 Noughts (yeah, pretty sweet, huh?). I kinda wanna give it a shot if possible.

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I'd recommend waiting until M10 comes out before building this, so that you can run Silence and Safe Passage before building UWbl I;d hazard a sample list would be:

[Land

3 Polluted delta
3 Strand
2 Scrub
3 Tundra
2 USea
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Waste/Factory

Men

4 Nought
3 Trinket Mage

Spells

3-4 Spell Snare
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
2-3 Trickbind
0-2 EE
4 Daze
4 Standstill
2-3 Chant/Duress
2-3 Abeyance/Thoughtseize

What do people think of this?

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

I'd recommend waiting until M10 comes out before building this, so that you can run Silence and Safe Passage before building UWbl I;d hazard a sample list would be:

[Land

3 Polluted delta
3 Strand
2 Scrub
3 Tundra
2 USea
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Waste/Factory

Men

4 Nought
3 Trinket Mage

Spells

3-4 Spell Snare
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
2-3 Trickbind
0-2 EE
4 Daze
4 Standstill
2-3 Chant/Duress
2-3 Abeyance/Thoughtseize

What do people think of this?

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Not bad, I think EE is auto include because of the lack of removal here. You don't think CB/Top should be in that mix? Or StP?


[Edit]

I completely forgot that there was deckcheck... http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=25363

This is the list that I pulled up. Admittedly, the SB could be tuned a little better, though.

Mono-U suffers from a ridiculous weakness to an opposing Counterbalance. I feel like 2 Wipe Away might be a worthwhile inclusion. Also with the lack of EE to remove blockers, Trinket Mage + manlands probably won't get there in case the Dreadnought plan doesn't materialize. Vendillion Clique is something I've always wanted to try. An additional threat/disruption piece that doesn't force you to tap out on your own turn seems pretty good.