http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79Quote:
Originally Posted by Polish Tamales
Printable View
http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79Quote:
Originally Posted by Polish Tamales
Awesome! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherick
I agree that EE is a great card against D&T, but I wouldn't say that Counterbalance and Counterspell are dead cards against them. D&T's big trump post-board is to Cataclysm us. I would definitely not board out all of my counter magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
Counterbalance really isn't so bad either. They have only Mangara and ORing as a way to remove it. They have only 4 (sometimes 5) ways to get around it with Aether Vial and the occasional miser Cavern of Souls. Vial likely won't come down after Counterbalance, so you only have to Needle, remove, or bounce a Vial that landed before your Counterbalance. After that, a CMC 3 on top will most likely lock them out of the game.
Clique, Entreat, and ORing/DSphere all are 3 CMC and all happen to be very good against D&T.
Dont forget Blood Moon which also works wonders on their frail manabase och is a 3 cmcQuote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
I Top8-ed the Austrian Legacy Championship 2013 / Legacy Invitational. 29 people qualified themselves over the year, 25 turned up for the Final. I expected RUG + Combo to be the majority of the field, followed by Shardless at third place. I started my list with 4 RIP + 4 Balance cause it's good vs RUG/Combo. Then I added 4 Flusterstorm, cause those rock too against this two decks. In the process I cut red and the tutorbox (from my GP Strasbourg-list which still functions as a perfect deckbuilding-basis for me). Then I quadlazered all of this list and ended up with this:
//Lands
4 Tundra
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
//Quad
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Rest in Peace
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshaes
4 Terminus
//Stuff
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Helm of Obediance
//Sideboard
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Entreat the Angles
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Vendilion Clique
Swiss-Rounds:
1) 2-0 vs Sneak Attack (camera-feature-match)
2) 1-2 vs Deathblade and the eventual tournament winner and therefore Legacy Champion 2013 (camera-feature-match)
3) 2-0 vs TES
4) 2-0 vs Death and Taxes
5) ID
Top8)
0-2 vs Deathblade
Despite me not winning the title it was a good feeling to be back at Miracles, my true pet-deck since GP Ghent+Strasbourg :D I really liked the list, especially the Sideboard, which may be more useful for others than my pretty meta-tuned mainboard. I really liked 4 Balance and the Cliques. Starting to dislike Helm, a 4th Jace would have been better. Even though RIP didn't have a lot of options to shine at this very tournament I am still overly confident in playing 3+ of them. Flusterstorm was worth his gold.
Greetings
Where can we watch the feature matches? Point us in the right direction please.
They are being uploaded right now - this process will probably be completed at Friday. I will post links as soon as all of the Championship is online.
Greetings
Splashing vs. D&T gives you such hits as Dread of Night and Izzet Staticaster, both of which are easy to resolve against their manabase assault.
Won $60 going 4-0 at CardKingdom's weekly. We got around 30 players this time. Lordofthepit was curious about my decklist, so thought I might as well post it and a brief recap on The Source.
I bought some alpha basic Plains in St. Louis on my way to Seattle, figured it was time to give them some love. Also the field seemed ripe for Miracles with a bunch of combo decks and few BG/x Decay decks and W/x hatebears decks.
My list is what I scrambled to put together in 10 minutes from memory of alphastryk's list. It's a bit budget, I only have 3 Flooded Strands and one Blood Moon from The Dark.
// 39 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ponder
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Spell Pierce
3 Counterbalance
3 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Blood Moon
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Terminus
// 21 Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
// Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
R1 - U/R Burn
Game 1 I finally stabilized at 1 life with CB-Top and Jace fatesealing. Game 2 I was so close to stabilizing, but couldn't find an answer to his top-decked Goblin Guide. Game 3 we went to time, but he conceeded to CB-Top, Jace, and Force, Pierce, Flusterstorm in hand with me at 7. Jace was boss, I had forgotten how fun he is.
1-0
R2 - Jund
Game 1 he wisely Thoughtseized my Enlightened Tutor after I led on Top, but I ripped another and set up a turn 3 Blood Moon. He unfortunately had the basic Forest to cast Goyf, Goyf, Bloodbraid, Deathrite over several turns. I Plowed Goyf, Forced Bloodbraid, then found RiP and eventually Helm to seal the game at 4 life. Game 2 he had a slow start but I was having trouble finding lands. I Purged his Liliana and dropped a couple RiPs but he had another. I Entreated for 2, he Decayed both then ultimated Lili, piling Island, Island, Plains in one, Mountain, RiP, RiP in the other. Obviously took the 3 lands. Found an O-Ring soon after, and eventually found my way into the third RiP and a Helm.
2-0
R3 - Canadian Thresh
Game 1 he was representing Stifle pretty hard so I led on a fetch to try to get him if he tapped out. He didn't, and he Wasted my next two land drops - Tundras. Fortunately he didn't have any pressure. I went for a Counterbalance, he Dazed. Went for the ambitious Rest in Peace on 2 lands, resolved. From there I had enough time to resolve Top, find lands, E-Tutor, and a Force. Decided to go for it with 5 lands in play, Force backup with me at 8 and 2 Mongeese on the board - good thing I did! He had Force, Daze, double Bolt in hand for lethal next turn. Game 2 I resolved a naked Counterbalance pretty early and accrued card advantage until I won with Helm / <irrelevant>.
3-0
R4 - Lordofthepit playing Elves
I thought he was on zoo, so I kept a hand with Brainstorm, Terminus, Terminus, and lands. Turns out he was on Elves. Yeah that hand is pretty good. Also Topped into the third Terminus like a champ. Elspeth + Jace + Counterbalance + Top won the game. Game 2 I brought in 2 more wraths. I Jaced him out I think. Not really relevant.
4-0
I had forgotten how sweet Miracles is. The Jund matchup felt very hard, I was lucky to escape alive. Quick Blood Moon is good, but not enough. I was very very happy to have the combo-kill as a way to just win out of nowhere against those decks with a lot of reach. I think I would play a second Pyroclasm over the Verdict though.
@ phazonmuant
Congratulations on the finish! I moved out of the Seattle area over a year ago and I miss Card Kingdom, but I am glad they still have a healthy legacy scene.
How does UWr Miracle fair in the Shardless BUG match-up?
While I currently play Shardless BUG, a lot of people in my meta are moving toward this deck and I do not like the idea of playing multiple mirror matches per tournament. My experience playing with Shardless BUG against Miracle Control is limited to the UW variety, but in those matchups, I felt like BUG is favored. If I were playing UWr Miracles with Blood Moon, REB, and Misdirection in the sideboard I am not so sure.
I stop reading when I see the number 21, next to the word Lands. You should visit LV, apparently you've survived Wastelands and Stifles like they are nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Phazonmuant, thanks for the list.
I really like the Blood Moon and the Enlightened Tutor package (especially for cards like Rest in Peace and Canonist), although I also like various aspect of oarsman's build since it seems stronger against a resolved Liliana.
I am a bit concerned about the low counterspell count and the 21 lands, one of which is a basic Mountain, but I guess you can't have it all.
I might try running something similar one of these days. :-)
The matchup is certainly interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
The blood moon is obviously insane against Shardless as many lists are running zero basics. Combine that with RIP to negate their Deathrite, and they're just about out of ways to interact with you.
After that, it seems to be that their biggest threats are the ability to cascade and the hand distruption. A lot of that can be negated with stuff from your sideboard. Leyline of Sanctity stops all the discard except liliana. Rule of law stops them from being able to cascade (or do much of anything.
One other thing to keep in mind is that having a land on top of your deck isn't a bad thing in this case - revealing a 0 to counterbalance stops their Ancestral Recall for :0:
While you may be right about the land count as a weakness, I appreciate the time you took to pen this snarky message. When I first read phazonmuant's post, more than anything else, I was dying to know whether twndomn read the report.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Thanks! We had this discussion a few pages ago, here's a little blurb:Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
Haven't played against BUG Agent with Miracles, but I've played the other side. Seemed like everyone agreed it wasn't favorable and that Blood Moon is an acceptable plan, although not enough if you can't clear the board within a turn or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Can't claim credit, alphastryk has rebuilt the deck in front of me so many times that I could (mostly) recreate it from memory. You're probably right that oarsman's build is better against a resolved Liliana, but I'm not sure that it's stronger overall, even in that matchup. Celestial Purge was sweet once, 2 copies aren't unreasonable, and Leyline of Sanctity as a 1-of isn't bad either. Also, RiP-Helm can kill them literally out of nowhere, and you can pretty easily catch them tapped out or force them to burn Decays on other hateful permanents. But I haven't played the deck nearly as much as most of the people in this thread, so those are just gut feels from playing against Miracles a lot and playing those matchups once or twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
4-0'ing a 30-man is pretty irrelevant as far as stastical or experiential significance goes. But if I remember right, you have never once even hinted that you've done well with the deck at any sort of tournament. I know for a fact that other people have called you out for being a parasite before. I would hardly describe you not reading my recap as heartbreaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Right after dismembering a few Grixis Delver, UBG Delvers and such last night in our LGS with tight play, Ponder and quadruple Entreat, I wonder why a lot of the available cheat-tools to secure landdrops don't make a comeback?
I'm a 100% sure I will shock my next tournament opponents with Land Tax + Path to Exile + 4 Entreat!
Woooooooo!!!
If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
You have my attention. Would you please elaborate? This is quite interesting....A sample build (not necessarily what you have going) would be a good start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
-ABC
I'm curious to know how the Canadian player played this.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
If I were him I would assume you have some protection in hand and play to make you tap your last land to prevent you to go off this turn: therefore I would have played daze because even if you have FoW you would almost always pay 1, otherwise you would be dead to my FoW or spell pierce.
It's also legit since with this board state your only dead if I have double bolt with 4 cards, which is not as frequent as double counter.
If you pay for the daze then I have to draw a blue card to pitch for my FoW, so even if you have your FoW I can still win.
This plan is based on the canadian assuming you have fow and hoping to draw a blue card next turn, but I think it's the best strategy in this situation: what do you think?
I will give you more insight about the land-tax list after work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
For yesterday evening, I really enjoyed running 4 Ponder on 22 lands to secure landdrops, dig for Swords to Plowshares/Counterbalance and setup 2 Terminus / 4 Entreat.
I noticed the need to play off strong topdecks with all the massive discard in the metagame and if you constantly hit your landdrops (to foil Daze/Spell Pierce/Wasteland/Stifle) and play your deck off the top with SDT, Ponder and Brainstorm, most Tempo-archtypes (including Variants with Tombstalker and Goofy) cannot get a grip on the match or handle the confusion, if you flip over the roles in this matchup and suddenly play "Angel Stompy" with 1-2 Tokens against a single Delver, Tarmogoyf or Young Pyromancer.
Reid Duke once tried to make Land Tax work with Daze, but setting back yourself on lands was bad. If you want to run more Entreats I figured out that you want to do the opposite and picked up an interaction a local writer once mentioned aka using Path to Exile to either grant your opponent another Land to turn on the Land tax or make them refuse to find a land, turning PtE into an unconditional removal against fair decks and almost all tempo-variants (which usually don't run basics).
More to come.
I don't post on this thread often, but when I do it's to point and laugh at people.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I am currently thinking of upping myself to 10 Fetchlands. I currently play 4 Blue Fetches, 4 Strands, and a Mesa, alongside 4 Tundra, 1 Fortress, 1 Volc, 5 Island, 3 Plains, and a Karakas. Ditching a Tundra for another Misty etc. seems like it might work out well for me. I'm also interested in working in the Mountain from a previous list. Wasteland is less of an issue for me than it may be for some players and some decks, but when my opponent is playing them I always feel like my Blood Moon is actively trying to get me killed. I need to crack my Fetch, and if I don't get a Volc I have no Red for Blood Moon later on. If I do, they can just Waste it. Getting a Mountain would often solve some of these problems, but I would then be running an effectively colourless Land. Which is lame.
Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I'd be in too, we could create some kind of foundation...Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
On a more deckspecific topic: On how to approach Deathblade. I am talking of a more common build of Deathblade - 3-4 Force, no Geists, no Souls, Confidants.
My recent games got me thinking. My opponent was a better player than I am, that said but all the games were close, it was probably my fault only that I lost - or his fault for not misplaying a single bit :D
Anyways, how to approach this MU anyways... I think of Deathblade as another Deathrite Shaman Creature Deck. Jaces are their trumps but not their main winning condition. Following this points I board in all of the removal I have access to --> 4 Swords 4 Terminus plus the sideboarded Verdicts/or any other removal. Forces out, and probably Spell Pierce (from a more generic Miracle-List) too? But with cutting Spell Pierce you can't handle a hardcast Skull or a Jace any more? If I cut the cc1-counters I am certainly bringing in anti-bgx bombs like Blood Moon, Elspeth and Baneslayer. Going this route, 0 counterspells, enables us to handle their threats first, then establish either Balance-lock or drop big white Bombs onto the battlefield. Not bringing the bombs and keeping in Pierces forces us into a 100% reactive gameplan with balance+top as our only way to win, besides a big entreat. But there also is the (high) possibility that we are getting outclassed on the battlefield by creatures like Confi/mystic - we can't just counter / kill everything.
Postboard we might have to deal with Geist anyways, so more removal is needed here too.
To sum it up:
I am for boarding out all spellbased interaction and bring in all the white/red cards like Elspeth, Baneslayer, Blood Moon and more Entreat the Angles. Additionaly I opt for more removal against their creatures at the cost of only a few jace-specified answers like REB...
How are you doing it?
Greetings
@Einherjer
As I mentioned before, trying to keep up with all their discard on the sole back of Counterbalance (which is often dismembered by A.decays) is an uphill battle against discard.
I'll remove my counters (FoW, Pierce, Counterspell) for Path to Exile and Terminus out of the board with already 4 Entreat Main, taking full Profit from the Supreme Miracle-threats/solutions while blanking their discard.
@Einherjer
I guess the battle is a bit different pending your 75. I would go +2 baneslayer, +1 wear//tear , +2 reb (jace is a dangerous card), +1 supreme verdict + 1 EE (one in main already), +1 blood moon. Then remove 9 cards, 3 fow, 2 pierce, 1 counterspell, 1 enlightened tutor (card disadvantage) and probably one ponder (running 2).
I have a feeling I will be leaning against going +2 misdirection in my sideboard within a few weeks and then those would be boarded in against abrupt decay maybe? They are so bad against the majority of a deathblade deck after they have sideboarded (they probably board out their discard if they know what they are doing)
What is the point about Baneslayer and Misdirection aside A.Decay, which I pretty much ignore ever and rather go aggro with Entreat, instead of sitting behind the balance for 10 turns. :/
I love Misdirection. It does a lot to disrupt the decks we have problems with. Mainly Shardless. I don't like Baneslayer Angel at all. You know what I'd want to do with 5 mana? Make 3 Angels, not 1.
Good stuff phazonmuant. That's pretty darn close to where I'm at. I would recommend Wear // Tear over Disenchant these days though. ;)
I played in a 25-man SCG IQ this past Saturday, going 3-0-2 but losing in Top8 to Jund with the following list:
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
4 swords to plowshares
4 sensei's divining top
1 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
2 enlightened tutor
2 counterbalance
1 counterspell
3 rest in peace
1 energy field
1 vendilion clique
2 entreat the angels
1 oblivion ring
3 jace, the mind sculptor
1 helm of obedience
4 force of will
3 terminus
2 tundra
1 volcanic island
1 karakas
4 scalding tarn
4 flooded strand
1 arid mesa
2 plains
1 mountain
5 island
sideboard:
1 Blood Moon
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Celestial Purge
1 Wear // Tear
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pyroclasm
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Quick summary - re-added the field because I expected a lot of aggro at a store that doesn't usually have a lot of Legacy, pushed the moon to the board, tried a flusterstorm main which was great all day.
I'll try to post a report from that and possibly also from tonight's weekly when I get home tonight and can look at all of my notes.
Edit: In reference to certain people, there is a feature on this board that lets you ignore certain posters, hiding all the posts they make...
As much as you want to complain and whine, you are doing exactly what I've written pages back.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Please Sir, I want some more...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Seriously though, I'm keen on this idea...
-ABC
Playing Daze? Scroll Rack?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Here is the link to the YouTube-Page of the store. As of now R1, R3 and R4 are up already. You can see me playing at R1 and R2 (which should be up somewhen soon, probably tomorrow). Enjoy, and if you catch anything you would have done differently, especially R2 let me know! The videos are called "08.09. Legacy Invitational..."Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
https://www.youtube.com/user/SpielRaumWien
Greetings
Lastest list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
4x Jace TMS
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterbalance
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Entreat the Angels
4x Path to Exile
3x Land Tax
4x Vendillion Clique
3x Terminus
2x Karakas
4x Flooded Strand
4x Tundra
2x Plains
6x Island
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Polluted Delta
That's right, there are only FoW and Counterbalance as countersuite in the mainboard! I'm used to have 3 flusterstorm in the side among other goodies for combo. The Mainboard is made to battle Tempo decks and massive discard therefore I focused on solid mana and topdecks. Cliques are to assist Brainstorm in getting Miracles back into the deck, keeping Delver in check and to mess with Show&Tell and Infernal Tutor. The combination with Karakas is disgusting ;)
This deck is still in development and I might switch to Tithe instead of Land Tax for the immediate effect, but having free Ancestral Recalls off Land Tax (especially in combination with Brainstorm and Jace) made me trying to solve the mana issue with Tax first and Tithe in a second session after having played the deck with Ponder instead, but both white cards look more promising because of the cardadvantage tacked onto.
Keep you updated. I consider a red-splash
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/56918Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
How good is Counterbalance against these BGx decks, anyway? 2 is the hardest CMC to hit off Counterbalance, and that's the number for most of their threats. If you're going to windmill slam permanents, would spell pierce not help better than Counterbalance? Maybe Force of Will, even? I guess Counterbalance just seems best to me in matchups where Top is going to lock them out of their deck (cantrip-combo) or where things are so slow that you'll invariably get it set up and utilize brainstorm to stack your deck (mirrors, UW, etc.).
You did say yourself that you were focused on their creatures, not their spells.
As just previously mentioned to your post, why not play one or maybe two Scroll Rack? Grab your lands, Scroll Rack them back in, shuffle effect, wash, rinse, repeat for insane card advantage? Works well in conjunction to Top. I don't know if I agree with a couple of the 4-ofs, namely Jace and Entreat. I understand both choices, but I think for myself I would play them both as a 3-of, and a singleton Entreat in the board. If it's about synergy, I think Scroll Rack hits that word on the head in this build. I really like it. This looks like fun.
-ABC
EDIT::: Scroll Rack is also a good choice against heavy discard builds, at least in my experience. Between Top and Rack alongside heavy basics, you stand a good chance to lose nothing of any value.
Most decks with abrupt decay or swords to plowshares as their dedicated removal cant handle a baneslayer. Baneslayer also blocks things that gets thrown against you with jitte on, takes care of griselbrand, gives you life and can be cast around gaddock teeg, thalia and other annoying sorceryhating stuff. They are also a fast clock once online and I usually side them in against decks that tend to not be able to handle them at all. Ofc they are bad against decks that rely on jace or liliana as their line of defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Tithe seems generally worse. 1-mana combos into a draw 2 is mostly fine, but it basically costs you 2-mana, and a fairly specific suite of cards. It doesn't seem all that strong. I like having Land Tax to do stupid stuff, but it feels like once you et into the position where these cards are good you should be onto the 'Finding a way to kill you' plan, rather than getting a random +1.
It doesn't really seem like the format is in a good place for Land Tax + value sorts of plays. The last SCG top 8 was Elves, Reanimator, Sneak and Show, Goblins, TES, Maverick, Dredge, and Team Italia (plus Deathrite). Nowhere in that list do I feel the need to durdle and eek out value. I'm not saying Land Tax is bad... but until the format slows waaay down, that isn't where I'd want to be.
I will test the Racks in some of the Clique spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
@Dzra
Tbh, playing with 3-4 RIP + 2 card-disadvantage-tutors + random "toolbox" is by far more durdling than Tax & Tithe in regards to most of your mentioned decks like Elves, TES, OmniTell or even Goblins. RIP are nearly worthless here.
@YamiJoey
Why is Tithe a 2-mana-card? Why should an unconditional 1cc card needs a "specific suit of cards"? Tithe and Tax are awesome early to secure that you even make it to 4+ lands and being able to drop your finishers. Why do you think I'm on 4 Entreat atm, if I wouldn't want to find a finisher asap as I have access to 4+ lands then? Do you want to tell me that 1cc cards which can create cardadvantage, make up for mulligans and fight Manadenial and Discard aren't worth testing? Your post, especially the part about "Tithe and Tax are only good in situations in which you rather want an Entreat" doesn't make any sense to me
I'll concede that perhaps I'm underestimating the value of Land Tax in making an earlier, more consistent Entreat, but it just seems like Top or even more Ponders already accomplishes that in a tighter way. Also, RIP into Helm definitely doesn't qualify as durdling (especially when your opponent has no Abrupt Decays to disrupt you). It might not be the best option for every field, but a potential T5 kill is pretty fast for a heavy control deck like Miracles. That isn't to say that I disagree with all your Entreats. I love Entreat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear