[Deck] Dragon Stompy

hey there.
now i'm playing DS for a long time with success and I fully agree with Tacosnape: DON'T CUT SEETHING SONG!!!!!!!!!

I tried it and testet it, it makes DS more consistent, for sure. But like Tacosnape said: U get a midrange Aggro with midrange Creatures, every goyf can handle.

All u want is to do INSANE things in your first turn, whern your opponent is in prison. You still want do explode!


look @ Tacosnapes Post, everything has been said :D


@ Crystal Ball: Timewalk for your Opponent! Any Questions?

I couldn't tell nothing until test it WITH song and with no song in MD. Even if songs with LoSP, RPDs and KDs isn't bad
About C. Ball: too slow for me and take a precious slot :\

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Originally Posted by Masamune

Are you crazy? :P Moon effects against Bants and "XYZ" color controls is a bomb! Can screw them a lot. Remember also: Moons can't turn into land Dryads. Natural Order can target it anytime, so you still can kill with your Jittes and Kavus with moons in table


IMO too much Jittes... Maybe 2x Jittes and 1x SoFI...because Legendary and 2cc can screw us a little...

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His deck was some weird homebrew. He didn't run the NO-Progenitus combo and he was running x4 Ponder/Brainstorm/Preordain, so he was spamming draw spells. Also, unless I dropped a T1/2 Moon effect, he just fetched out basics. So I opted to remove 4 somewhat-dead Moon effects for some spot removal. He also told me afterwards he had no spot removal for my RPD beyond Sower, so I'm assuming he wasn't running StP. I honestly had no idea what the hell his game plan was. O.o

As for the Jitte's, I've had particular success with them. Yeah, they suck in multiples because of the Legendary rule, however I also know that I don't mind have a backup for when they destroy the first. Jitte can utterly reck games if it's not dealt with, so it usually becomes a primary target over one of my lock pieces. I also know that Jitte is the best way for me to recover from insane life loss or compete with bigger creatures before I have Hellbent or have powered up one of my levelers. If I were to opt to remove one, I would prefer a Sword of L/S as it gives life recovery and pro-StP/PtE.

And like I said earlier, they Crystal Ball was useful to me, but it was always the absolute last thing I wanted to play from my hand, so I've since removed them from the deck.

Can anyone tell me what they're experiences are with Kargan Dragonlord over Lord of Shatterskull Pass? The Dragonlord's final Level is shear awesomeness, however it seems like you have to invest alot more time into making him awesome whereas the Lord of Shatterskull Pass requires all of a 6 mana investment for me to be content to leave him be. Most of the time I don't even bother trying to reach his ultimate unless I have nothing better to do with the mana. So, yeah. Just interested to see how the Dragonlord has been working out for people who've tested him out.

Forlorn Egoist

I don't know nothing about Dragonlords (I didn't test it yet) but about LoSPs, my current list has 2 of them and I'm trying to run 3 or even 4 (must to be tested...).
Yes, it requires six mana...but 4 initially and 2 after, in other words, I did my Passes turn two 6/6 with Mox+Tomb+Simian turn 1 and leveling it up 6/6 making any Goyf or fishes block it everytime...the ultimate level up dealing 6 damage is good when black decks with Nightwalks and Bloodgasts can hold in table all explosive attacks... either being little defensive ways like 2/2 creatures or with deathouchs abilities...
Doesn't matter whatt deck for instance but how we can handle with any aggro table when we have in the right moment only a sigle body.
I'll try to test DS with no 2CC like Dragonlords...I hate draw them when I want a horny dude (Sloggers and Passes :D)

I just bougt like a whole bunch of DS cards from my friend. He's having twins really soon, so he can use the extra cash, and I've had my eyes on this deck for quite some time. Win-win, I suppose :) The only cards I'm missing right now are City of Traitors, Ratchet Bombs and a few of the newer creatures (Kazuul etc.)

With the recent changes in the ban list, do you guys think that DS is well-positioned in the metagame? I usually play reactive aggro-control, but I've been messing around with some lists on MWS, and I like playing proactively for once, the cards the deck uses are cool, and it has some insane first turn plays. I was thinking about bringing it to a tournament pretty soon, if I can get my hands on some Cities and some Bombs, and considering that Storm Combo and Rock-like decks with rather fragile manabases are popular here in Sweden it seems like a good choice.

However, we also have a lot of Goblins in our metagame, usually I play Goblins at least once in every tournament I play. How would I sideboard? Obviously, Pyrokinesis goes right in, and I was thinking -Chalice +Needle if I'm on the draw, but other than that, I'm not sure. Do I want the Bombs? They seem rather weak considering their diverse curve, but blowing up Vials, Lackeys, Goblin Tokens etc. is nice. Siding out cards for Needle/Pyrokinesis is always a stretch though, and I don't think I can afford to side out more.

Well Moon effects aren't great vs Goblins so I'd start there..

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Well Moon effects aren't great vs Goblins so I'd start there..

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I like to keep in the Magus at least, because he can carry swords and he turns off KGrip/Warren Wierding. But granted, they're probably the weakest cards.

One the Play:

+4 Pyrokinesis
- 3 Blood moon
-1 other (cause I only run 3 blood moon main)

On the Draw:
+4 pyrokinesis
+3 Needle

-3 Bloodmoon
-4 Chalice

I personally wouldn't bother with ratchet bomb against them. Jitte is usually going to be stronger against them anyways

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Originally Posted by Tivon

One the Play:

+4 Pyrokinesis
- 3 Blood moon
-1 other (cause I only run 3 blood moon main)

On the Draw:
+4 pyrokinesis
+3 Needle

-3 Bloodmoon
-4 Chalice

I personally wouldn't bother with ratchet bomb against them. Jitte is usually going to be stronger against them anyways

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I also run 3 BMoon maindeck, so it applies to me too. Maybe -1 Magus or something.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'm gonna sleeve up the deck with some proxies and test it against my friends this afternoon.

I usually leave in magus just because I like the body with the added on effect of shutting off splash and waste/port. I usually cut a trinisphere or Red Akroma when she is being played. Recently, due to dropping her, it has been a trinisphere

You do WHAT?!? Stop, no, bad. Don't do that. 3sphere stays, Chalices go out. Chalice sucks compared to 3sphere against goblins. They often destroy it/get around it with or make land drops 'til turn 3 and drop a vial/lackey eventually, but it kills their tempo long enough for you to find a Pyrokinesis/Firespout/whatever to clean up their attempts at assembling an army while beating face with a creature swingin' a sword of fire/ice. It's a great card for getting through goblins AND Merfolk (if it resolves...) and can really win you some matches. People think that the card draw is bad, but I think that in a metagame where both red and blue aggro lists boast high play rates, card advantage will definitely be appreciated in the long run, even if it makes it harder to go hellbent.

--ABC

I think the issue myself and a lot of other DS players have noticed is that 3sphere A) Sucks in multiples against Merfolk/Gobs and B) Ultimately doesn't shut off Vial. Of course it's not as if they'll have Vial every game, and 3sphere does slow down they're tempo, but it doesn't disable threats such as Warren Weirding or Piledriver. Chalice @1, however, removes Vial/Lackey and Chalice @2 disables Instigator/Piledriver and Weirding/Goyf for the builds that opt to splash. I typically opt to keep 3spheres (maybe removing 1) as even though they don't stop vial, they still force that player to rely much more heavily on Vial to cast threats. I typically end up removing several Moon effects for burn. I don't remove them entirely since they're Port/Waste would slow us down incredibly, but having Burn does help us deal better with Lords/Piledriver.

Forlorn Egoist

I do WHAT? Stop, think, yes, good.

I'd also like to reiterate:

I cut one trinishphere. usually leaving me with 2 in the maindeck (sometimes 3 depending on how I metagamed).

I could even make a valid argument for cutting trinisphere for another card like ratchet bomb if you've got it in the sideboard. It's just not that exceptional in the matchup unless they have a blank board and you can play it turn one and chain threats.

Trinisphere is a lot worse on the draw, especially vs Goblins/Merfolk and other decks with Vial or Lackey effects. I would however always keep it on the play simply because T1 trinisphere on the play is often game.

What FieryBalrog said

I did some playtesting against Zoo this weekend and it seems like a rough match-up, mostly thanks to their ability to actually use red mana from Moon'd duals and fetches, and because of their maindeck hate in Qasali Pridemage. Maybe my opponent was lucky to draw into them or whatever, and if the Zoo guy doesn't know what he's up against it gets better, but still... How does one sideboard against Zoo?

I use this sideboard:

4 Pyrokinesis
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere

With a fairly standard classic Hellbent DT maindeck (7 Moon effects, Arc-Sloggers and so on). Thankful for any help.

Chalice of The Void @1 is the best way against it... even Moon effects turn 1 screwing all fetches... IMO Pithing isn't a good option...maybe Bomb's wich is a nice stuff against merfolks also, can destroy Goyfs and Reliquarys...Chalice @1 screw Bolts, Chains, Nacalts, Paths, Lavamancers and Figures. Slogger with any equipment or with Chalice in table delay easily and allow us play safety RPDs and Riders

I'd like to try this new guy, Phyrexian Revoker, in the place of Needles.
Look at him: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1295327697 .

Theory: Since we take care of nonbasics, the "nonland" difference could be trivial, plus that Revoker can shut off non-land mana abilities, while Needle can't. Mox Diamonds, LEDs, Lotus Petals, N.Hierarchs, elves, Spr.Drums, etc. He's at 2 converted, right, but I think Needle's worst drawback was its conflict with Chalice. Not that P.R. completely solves this, but a cc=2 is more difficult to have a problem with, considering (A)our most common play is Chalice at 1 and (B)you don't usually play Chalice2 first turn, while you can cast Revoker first turn -before that Chalice that would counter him. He's more removable than Needle with an artifact body of 2/1, but he has a body to attack nonetheless. Thank the gods he isn't mythic, just in case this thing works.

PS: Needle-lovers can play 8 now :D

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Originally Posted by 0dysseus

I'd like to try this new guy, Phyrexian Revoker, in the place of Needles.
Look at him: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1295327697 .

Theory: Since we take care of nonbasics, the "nonland" difference could be trivial, plus that Revoker can shut off non-land mana abilities, while Needle can't. Mox Diamonds, LEDs, Lotus Petals, N.Hierarchs, elves, Spr.Drums, etc. He's at 2 converted, right, but I think Needle's worst drawback was its conflict with Chalice. Not that P.R. completely solves this, but a cc=2 is more difficult to have a problem with, considering (A)our most common play is Chalice at 1 and (B)you don't usually play Chalice2 first turn, while you can cast Revoker first turn -before that Chalice that would counter him. He's more removable than Needle with an artifact body of 2/1, but he has a body to attack nonetheless. Thank the gods he isn't mythic, just in case this thing works.

PS: Needle-lovers can play 8 now :D

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Yup. I think every1's going to jump on these. They're probably good enough to main.

well... woke up too early and can't sleep now, so I post at TS.

I think Revoker is much better in DS then Needle is. We no need to name Wasteland like other decks, and we can protect it with COTV1. That also means the [rarely seen] antisynergy between Needle and COTV is gone. I think we are just going to exchange Needles with Revokers like we exchanged Kegs with Bombs.

I could finally run 7 Needles, if my board weren't full =P.


other than that: I am going away from that non-hellbent plan...

Many testings of myself have proven that Taco is 100% right. You CANT cut Hellbent from that deck, because you lose too much aggro, and are there with mediocore critters which are somewhat to slow. The same is 100% true for Seething Song. We must play 4. If you don't understand me, you haven't tested enough with both versions. I did, and I really hope to move this deck away from Hellbent, but I failed because it's not possible [actually it is, but it is not good].

Congratulations Taco, you were right, the whole time... >.>


With all that said. I still have to disagree with you in 1 point:

"2 Kargan Dragonlord is core for the deck"

No, it isn't IMO... well OK, I like him, I really really like him, but he is not made for DS IMO. You play it as your first critter if you have nothing other to do in the first turn, but after that, you have to do 401 other things with your mana, like playing more critters, lockpieces, blabla, that you just can't level him up. He is good if you draw him as a topdeck in the lategame, without question, but in the early he just isn't needed. Most of the time you dropped him first,you end the game a few turns later, and he is still 2/2.

For me... he suffers under the same things Lord of Shatterskull Ass suffers. You say, a 6/6 for 4RR is bad, and isn't that what DS wants, because it doesn't singlehandedly wins the game. While this is true, a 4/4 flyer for RRRRRR doesn't do that either.


oh and BTW... Bardo said he wanted to close this topic, and redirect all the traffic to my "new" Primer. That's the reason I wrote it =P. Still people are posting here... something's going wrong?

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Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth

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"2 Kargan Dragonlord is core for the deck"

No, it isn't IMO... well OK, I like him, I really really like him, but he is not made for DS IMO. You play it as your first critter if you have nothing other to do in the first turn, but after that, you have to do 401 other things with your mana, like playing more critters, lockpieces, blabla, that you just can't level him up. He is good if you draw him as a topdeck in the lategame, without question, but in the early he just isn't needed. Most of the time you dropped him first,you end the game a few turns later, and he is still 2/2.

For me... he suffers under the same things Lord of Shatterskull Ass suffers. You say, a 6/6 for 4RR is bad, and isn't that what DS wants, because it doesn't singlehandedly wins the game. While this is true, a 4/4 flyer for RRRRRR doesn't do that either.


oh and BTW... Bardo said he wanted to close this topic, and redirect all the traffic to my "new" Primer. That's the reason I wrote it =P. Still people are posting here... something's going wrong?

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You're right about Dragonlord and your mana, and I think that's the reason Tacosnape would play 2 of them, even if he could play 3 or 4. I would play 1, you know my answer, to eliminate the slightest chance to have to level up both, and I'd fill the last slot with sth else that works otherwise, or with a Lord of Shatterskull Pass, who can be left @ lvl1 as a 6/6. You can safely play 2-4 Lords just because of that.

I mostly observe this thread in mtgthesource and I didn't know a new primer was ready. No admin posted here to notify us about redirection too. Could you post a link? I'd kindly suggest you mention and consult the makers of this deck bro...if you haven't done that already:)) No offence meant about your effort, okay? It's very good you wrote a new primer, I'm eager to see it!

My Primer is also on site 1 of the established deck site, means we have 2 Threads atm.

link ---> http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Dragon-Stompy


If there are things that need to be mentioned, feel free to PM me or post it, as I will kep the OP up to date =)

As far as things going, Bardo said, I should PM him, if I posted it... I did, but no response until now =(

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Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth

My Primer is also on site 1 of the established deck site, means we have 2 Threads atm.

link ---> http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Dragon-Stompy


If there are things that need to be mentioned, feel free to PM me or post it, as I will kep the OP up to date =)

As far as things going, Bardo said, I should PM him, if I posted it... I did, but no response until now =(

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Dan, like most of the mods, is a busy guy that has a life outside the site. We can voluntarily discontinue discussion here and carry on in the new thread until this one is locked and the redirect is set up.

Also, might be worthwhile to pm the other admins, one of them is likely to get on and see the message and take care of teh lock and redirect if Bardo doesn't get the chance.

Well done Yawg! I really enjoyed reading your new primer. I liked the rulings tips a lot. Wish I could help by providing accurate info about the matchups, but I don't consider myself a top player. You can provide a link of the old thread, and do word error correction in just a few spots. Thank you very much for creating it (and the veterans of old that helped of course=)) Respect dude!

Let's mention it again,

THE NEW THREAD IS HERE :

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Dragon-Stompy