[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eksem

So would you consider a DD-version more optimal in a Merfolk-heavy meta? Well, I guess you would consider DD-versions more optimal in general since you play the DD-deck, but in the Merfolk-matchup specifically?

---

It's kind of a cointoss. If you can get a Duress in early taking their only FoW it's great. But most of the times they're going to have either a second FoW, or a Daze, or a Cursecatcher or even a Standstill. And as I mentioned before, trying to go off with Chant + exact mana turns Daze either into a Counterspell or an invitation to the game "Do I have another counter?".

With DDANT you can play a SDT and filter your hand into a bunch of mana and protection. Under a Standstill, if they don't have Vial out, it's very good as you have a bunch of turns to filter. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I do like my chances better than with a straight ANT version. With ANT you have to go off fast because they can drop your life total very quickly and going off unprotected is very dangerous.

On the other hand the speed of ANT sometimes is very relevant. They have a lot of creatures and they just can't mull a good creature hand + Standstill hand everytime to find counters. So sometimes you can play a single protection spell, it sticks(or not) and you go off before they can react. But from my experience more often then not they have more free counters than you'd like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alderon666

Care to elaborate on that?
Against a single counter it's AWESOME!
But in my meta people seem to carry Daze/FoW/Counterspell/Spell Snare/Stifle in their pockets, because everytime I try to go off relying on them not having/not having topdecked another counter I lose.
After you go off it's quite good too, but as I said earlier, that part rarely matters.

---

Seriously how many counter do you expect?
When I get the chance to go 1-3 round of against aggro control with one PoN on hand I´ll risk it and 95% of the times it worked well.
And against heavy control (Landstill etc.) you have all the time you need to collect 2/3 Protectionspells.
Stifel is a joke after Ad Nauseam, you will have a lot of Duress/PoN!

Really? What can I say? Everytime I play Merfolk they open with Daze/FoW in hand and turn 1 Cursecatcher. Everytime I play Canadian ***** I get Wasted into oblivion (although this one is not that hard).

While I may sound too pessimistic you just sound like your Ad Nauseam has split second.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linux-ll-

Seriously how many counter do you expect?
When I get the chance to go 1-3 round of against aggro control with one PoN on hand I´ll risk it and 95% of the times it worked well.
And against heavy control (Landstill etc.) you have all the time you need to collect 2/3 Protectionspells.
Stifel is a joke after Ad Nauseam, you will have a lot of Duress/PoN!

---

So what you are saying is that if you have at least 1 card for protection, you should probably be safe going off early. Is it worth it trying to mulligan into a "safer" hand if you know you are facing Merfolk and the hand you have seems to be able to get going in turns 1,2,3 but no protection in sight? How would that math work out?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alderon666

Care to elaborate on that?


Against a single counter it's AWESOME!

But in my meta people seem to carry Daze/FoW/Counterspell/Spell Snare/Stifle in their pockets, because everytime I try to go off relying on them not having/not having topdecked another counter I lose.

After you go off it's quite good too, but as I said earlier, that part rarely matters.

---

The elaboration part is easy. Pact is 0 mana while Chant is 1 mana.

You can look at the rest of your post for reasons why this is better:

"Chant is bad when you have the exact mana to go off, as their Daze becomes a hard counter unless you want to gamble of course. Watch out for Vial at #1 putting Cursecatcher in play at instant speed."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rico Suave

The elaboration part is easy. Pact is 0 mana while Chant is 1 mana.

You can look at the rest of your post for reasons why this is better:

"Chant is bad when you have the exact mana to go off, as their Daze becomes a hard counter unless you want to gamble of course. Watch out for Vial at #1 putting Cursecatcher in play at instant speed."

---

I don't understand where this discussion is going? Are we just going to assume every opponent always has just one counter in their hand at all times? If so I will just play Belcher with maindeck Blasts or something.

You asked me to explain why a 0 mana disruption spell is better than a 1 mana disruption spell.

I did.

I don't know why you are confused.

I also don't know what makes you think the deck has nothing but Pact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eksem

I have a question about the Merfolk-matchup.

I am new to the boards although I have been lurking for the last year or so. I recently put together an ANT-deck, pretty standard build. I have yet to take it to a tournament but I have been testing it at my local store pitting it against the usual crowd (most archetypes are represented, the only really notable exception being Stompy/Prison-strategies).

Most decks i've played against range from easy to beat to pretty tough although managable but there is one deck that seems near impossible to beat and that is Merfolk. I lose so hard in that matchup that it really feels like I am missing something important.

First of all there are so many things to play around. Stifle+Wasteland, Daze, FoW. This, of course, slows me down because I have to play safe mana and find protection before going off. That is not a huge problem when playing against *****-decks and the worst thing coming at you for the first couple of turns is a lonely Mongoose. The problem is that Merfolk-decks couple their quite impressive disruption with a surprisingly fast clock, not leaving much room for playing slowly.

So how does one approach this matchup? Should I just ignore Stifle, FoW and to some extent Daze and just try to go off as soon as possible before he gets too much of a clock on me? Should I focus on going off with IGG instead of AdN? Should I keep playing like I do, taking it slowly and go for the sure win and accept that Merfolk is a hard matchup? Or should I just build a DD-version and start practicing piles in case a real Merfolk-meta developes here? (it's seems to be going that direction already)

---

The best sb card vs Merfolk is Xantid Swarm. They can't kill it and you can tutor for every card do you need to combo one, two or three turns after play it. I never lost a single game if I play an early Xantid Swarm.

Hi guys, I would like to know how to sideboard with this list against most decks.

Instant
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Orim's Chant

Sorcery
4 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony

Artifact
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Land
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea


Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
1 Angel's Grace
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island
1 Slaughter Pact

I would apreciate if you guys cold help me, because most of the times i dont know what to side out to board other cards

thanks:smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bulaxas

Hi guys, I would like to know how to sideboard with this list against most decks.

Instant
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Orim's Chant

Sorcery
4 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony

Artifact
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Land
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea


Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
1 Angel's Grace
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island
1 Slaughter Pact

I would apreciate if you guys cold help me, because most of the times i dont know what to side out to board other cards

thanks:smile:

---

Don't trust me on this. I would:

MD:
-1 Infernal Tutor
-1 Tundra
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Krosan Grip

SB:
Your sideboard is all wrong.
It's somewhat accepted that Dark Confidant are bad. People keep in Swords to Plowshares/Bolt so they can gain life/finish you off, respectively. So it just ends up eating removal and doing nothing but slowing you down.

Angel's Grace kinda sucks hard. It might work against aggro from time to time but only wins you matchups that you should be winning easily.

Tropical Island, I would play a Bayou here. While Tropical can be fetched by any of your 8 fetches, sometimes you need G/B mana if you have an Island or Tundra. Getting Tropical wasted and then only drawing Flooded Strands while needing green mana is bad, but I'm willing to take that chance. Most of the times you only fetch green when you're using it.

Slaughter Pact is good.

Tendrils of Agony, I suppose this is sided in against some discard or something. It's ok, having just one win condition always bothers me.

Ill-Gotten Gains, unless you're playing Burning Wish you shouldn't have one of these in your SB. You're more likely to side the one the MD out, than ever needing to side on in from the SB.

The rest is ok, I would play something like Rebuild, or Hurkyl's Recall or even Serenity. I would also suggest Xantid Swarms, but they are more like a metagame call as they're mostly good against Merfolk.

On the draw, I won some games vs Aggro deck with a single Angel's Grace.

Generally they mulligan to 5-4 searching for Pyrostatic Pillar and play it in his second turn.
Then I play Ad Nauseam in my turn, draw a bunch of cards + Angel's Grace and win at 1 life through the pillar.

It's a single slot of the Sideboard and won me enough games to pay for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gocho

On the draw, I won some games vs Aggro deck with a single Angel's Grace.

Generally they mulligan to 5-4 searching for Pyrostatic Pillar and play it in his second turn.
Then I play Ad Nauseam in my turn, draw a bunch of cards + Angel's Grace and win at 1 life through the pillar.

It's a single slot of the Sideboard and won me enough games to pay for it.

---

Sure, if your meta is full of Pillars then it sounds fine. But most of the time it's just going to be a wasted slot since Pillar is the least played hate compared to Chalice, 3Sphere, Gaddock, MM, Canonist, Counterbalance.

In Europe, or are least in Spain, there are a lot of Tarmosligh and almost no Zoo.

In the last tournament, I see 3 Counterbalance decks, 1 Stax and 3 Zoo with 46 players. So, I face no Gaddock, no Canonist, no chalice, no 3sphere.

What card do yo mean with "MM"?

Meddling Mage

Wouldn't a bounce spell or disenchant do just as much against Pyro Pillars? Maybe even Hydroblast since it also counters Fireblasts and other burn spells as well as kill Kirds? Granted, bounce doesn't work against multiples (well, Echoing Truth does) but it would be much better to have against CBalance and Stax.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noman Peopled

Wouldn't a bounce spell or disenchant do just as much against Pyro Pillars? Maybe even Hydroblast since it also counters Fireblasts and other burn spells as well as kill Kirds? Granted, bounce doesn't work against multiples (well, Echoing Truth does) but it would be much better to have against CBalance and Stax.

---

Grace garantees a win after a resolved Ad Nauseam, all the stuff you suggest folds to Turn 1 Nacatl, Turn 2 Pillar, Turn 3 burn burn. Maybe not fold, but Ad Nauseing with 7 life is never a good deal.

As far as Dark Confidant is concerned. I remember the discussion of why it was bad against control. I play 3 sideboard because in my local meta there is a (Poxless) Pox deck with heavy discard (Therapy, Thoughtseize, Hymns). I find it useful against decks like that.

As far as sideboard goes I run:

3 Dark Confidant
1 Angel's Grace
3 Krosan Grip
1 Silence
1 Tropical Island
2 Echoing Truth
2 Deathmark
2 Sensei's Diving Top

Confidants/Tops for Eva Green/ Pox
Grace for Combo/Aggro
Grips for any Ench/Art hate coupled with control
Silence for comob/ control
Truth for dredge/ permanent hate
Marks for Teeg/Canonist/ Meddling Mage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gocho

The best sb card vs Merfolk is Xantid Swarm. They can't kill it and you can tutor for every card do you need to combo one, two or three turns after play it. I never lost a single game if I play an early Xantid Swarm.

---

I can see how dropping an early enough Xantid Swarm would, well, win the game; but how does one get it into play? Aggressive mulligans? Digging like crazy?

I always find one playing Top, Brainstorm and/or Ponder, but you always can sideboard 3-4 Xantid to find early.

I have 2 in my SB and will add a one more, because I see more Merfolks the last tournament.

My 2 cents on ANT after having tested various different lists for some time (I hope atleast some of this is not old news):

Using Ponder over SDT: Both are good and should be maindecked. Ponder's shuffle effect is often very useful, however, SDT is sooo good it should be a crime not to play it. I have won a lot of games just on the back of this card. Its ability to generate storm for colorless mana or to be a colorless ponder for 2 has saved me many times where I had no access to blue after going off and would have lost without it. Its synergy with LED is also truly awesome. It kind of makes up for the way Wizards 'nerfed' LED by removing mana floating to draw step because with SDT you get that interaction back.

Using Thoughtseize/Pact of Negation over Chant/Silence: I think Seize and Pact are pretty unimpressive. Chant is more flexible and good against many different decks, unlike the other 2 cards it will never be a completely dead card g1. Thoughtseize: lifeloss, narrow usage, terrible against blue aggro if you are forced to later win through an IGG loop and you have discarded their FoW's in the early game. The only good thing about it is obviously that it's an early play that you don't need to keep mana for later in the game. Pact of Negation: I think this card is pretty terrible to say the least. First off you will be banging your head against something if you are forced to go off with a hand containing LED, Infernal Tutor and the Pact as only "protection" - this interaction is just terrible and shows that card actually relies on having Chant in hand, and Chant never relies on anything, except for the mana to cast it. Also, Pact relies enormously on being able to see your opponent's hand unless you just want to blindly use it against a counterspell, in which case you might aswell play Belcher instead of ANT.


I'm still not sure if I want Pyroblasts, Confidants or Xantid Swarms in the 4-of sb slot though. Dark Confidant is good against Discard Rock type decks. Against UWx control Confidant and Swarm do the same thing = counter/STP me or you will lose very soon. Pyroblast is appealing to me because it can catch people off-guard by countering Counterbalance for 1 mana. Xantid's ability to hose the unsuspecting Merfolk player is very impressive though.