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(Back in time) I've been playing a kind of "aggro" Version, running a playset of Bloodghasts. I found turning my landdrops into threats was a neat idea and obviously Bloodghast's a creature you'll happily sacrifice. However I do see it in no recent lists, is it just plain bad or why is that?
Edelstein plays 2 main deck, and hes had the best finish in recent memory with the deck, good validation there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias
I have changed my approach now that BR delver is so common.
Chalice in MB.
4 bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
4 pack rat
4 urza's bauble
4 gitaxian probe
4 cabal therapy
4 Inquisition of kozilek
4 Chalice of the void
4 contagion
4 Smallpox
3 pox
17 swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
Discard that cost less to cast, creaturekill that cost nothing. I am evading Daze much here.
lightning bolts, chain lightning, forked bolt and POP(price of progress) are almost always present in the delver decks you're gearing up against..and with 4 gitaxian probes, 4 contagions and 3 big poxes, you might often find your life running dangerously low against them..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
i like the chalice though, it can really hurt them..
Why urza's bauble, and I agree with zenitramleirdag; perhaps there is a little too much lifeloss. Why not drop 1cc-cards in favor of more 2cc-cards? I could see problems dropping a CotV with a hand full of 1cc-discardQuote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I need 1cc discard to make sure chalice resolve early in the face of counters.
Hymn is nice, but too slow to help, and chalice is better disruption in that slot.
Urza's bauble help find target for cabal T, and slim down the deck at the same time. It can be used with dredge effects too, like darkblast, necroplasm etc.
I ran Street wraith but thought the bauble would be better.
Ok, not sure if I agree with your reasoning, but if it works for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
On other news, have people seen the featured match-up of Stefan Gimmillar? Can't find his list, but it has four Surgical Extraction and one Extirpate main, among sweepers like Toxic Deluge and Pernicious Deed. Seems like a pretty meta-list.
Should make reanimate and s&t cry...
Heard this list got a 13th in Columbus. From a player called Cary Austin.
Creatures (1)
1 Nether Spirit
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (25)
13 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (30)
1 Crucible Of Worlds
3 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Toxic Deluge
Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Damnation
1 Toxic Deluge
Hi Guys,
yesterday I was attending a 75 player Legacy tournament. I used the list I posted earlier in this thread.
My sideboard was:
3x Duress
3x Ratched Bomb
3x Engineered Plague
2x Extirpate
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Spinning Darkness
Match 1 12-Post
Game 1:
Early disruption hits and I lock him with Liliana, Crucible and Wasteland. Factory does the rest.
I have no idea what to board. I think it was -2 Spinning Darkness, -1 SDT, +3 Duress
Game 2:
He drops a turn 1 Pithing Needle naming Wasteland. I remember I should have boarded Ratched Bomb, and regrett not doing it. I cant disrupt him enough without Wasteland. Some turns later he drops another Needle naming Lili. I draw Lili -.-
He casts Emrakul and wins
Game 3:
I finally put in Ratched Bomb, but forgot what I put out. My opening 7 was weak and I mulliganed to Marsh Flats, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Nether Spirit, Bloodghast and SDT. I go full aggro casting Bloodghast and Top on turn 1, find another land after spinning top in my upkeep, and cast Nether Spirit. Factory gives another speed boost to the clock and I can finish before he does crazy stuff.
1 - 0
Match 2 Deathblade (I think)
Game 1:
My hand was mediocre. 1cc Discard and 2 Liliana. He shows 2 Dark Confidant, Stoneforge Mythic, Batterskull, STP and some land. I take the first Bob. He Thoughseizes my Liliana cursing, because I drew a 3rd then drops Stoneforge. I drop Liliana and he sacrifices Stoneforge. Bob kills Liliana, he drops another Stoneforge. I drop the next Liliana he sacrifices Stoneforge. Bob kills Liliana, he plays Tidehollow Sculler, taking my 3rd Liliana, leaving me without any removal. I had a Factory in play but couldn't use it because he still has STP. Bob and some of his friends kill me.
I boarded something like -1 SDT, -2 Crucible, +3 Ratched Bomb
Game 2:
Not much to say here. Smallpoxing is no fun if he discards a Lingering Souls. I kill 4 Spirit tokens using Ratched Bomb but he flashbacked another Lingering Souls, and got a Batterskull into play. Phyrexian Revoker naming Liliana does the rest.
1 - 1
Match 3 UR Delver
Game 1
I was greedy and let his turn 1 Delver live, in order to disrupt his hand, instead of dropping Innocent Blood into a potential Daze. He then drops a Young Pyromancer and could protect his creatures from my sacrifice effects. He kills me with 3 Young Pyromancer and 9 Elemental token. I should have scooped here, to have more time for games 2 and 3
I board -2 SDT, -2 Crucible,-3 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Spinning Darkness, +2 Extirpate, +3 Engineered Plague
Game 2
I hit early disruption and drop an Engineered Plague naming Humans. He plays Goblin Guide. I answer his threads, Extirpate his Swiftspears, but fail to find a way of killing him. He drops needle naming Factory, and Cantrips and Treasure Cruises in order to find his remaining 3 Goblin Guides. In the end I make 4 Zombie tokens with Empty the Pits which got there eventually.
Game 3
I have everything I want for game 3. Innocent Blood, Smallpox and Engineered Plague and Cursed Scroll in my starting 7, but the round was over and we had to draw. Would have won that game, but didn't because I didn't scoop in the first one :/
1 - 1 - 1
Match 4 Sneak Attack
Game 1
Wasteland, 2x Hymn to Tourach and 2x Smallpox keep him from going of and Empty the Pits for 6 Zombies kills him.
I board -2 Spinning Darkness, -1 Crucible +3 Duress
Game 2
He drops a Mountain, I IoK him, take a Seething Song, He drops another land, I Dark Ritual Liliana and we both discard, he seething songs into Through the Breach and drops Worldspine Wurm, bringing be to 3 and leaving 3 5/5 tokens. I can kill 2 tokens but die to the 3rd
Game 3
Much like game 2. My disruption is not hard enough and he kills me again with a Worldspine Wurm
1 - 2 - 1
Match 5 MUD
Game 1
He drops Chalice 1, I drop land, he drops Grim Monolith and then Lodestone Golem, I drop a land and still cant play anything. I cant recover from this. I got to kill the Lodestone Golem using Spinning Darkness, but the he follows up with a Wurmcoil Engine and I'm done.
I board -2 Spinning Darkness, -2 Crucible, -2 SDT
Game 2
I can disrupt him from turn 1, lock him with Liliana and win with Factory and Bloodghast
Game 3
See game 1. He disrupts me, I could not play anything until turn 3. Turn 4 he drops Daretti (insane planeswalker in this deck) gets back his Lodestone Golem and Wastelands me, setting me back another turn. I cant recover.
1 - 3 - 1
Match 6 Miracle
Opponent dropped, allthough I'm not mad about getting a free win. Miracle would have been a loss most likely
2 -3 - 1
Match 7 Shardless BUG
Game 1
Alltough I can disrupt him, his first turn Ancestral Vision, and another one turn 3 generate too much card advantage and I die to a board full of small dudes
I cant remember what I boarded. Most likely Ratched Bomb.
Game 2
Early Bloodghast, disruption and Cursed Scroll win me this very grindy game. We both where tired, and my opponent made some strange decisions (ie, letting Nether Spirit return from the yard to block his Tarmogoyf multiple turns, although he had a Deathrite Shaman, or trying to Abrupt Decay my SDT)
Game 3
We had 5 minutes left on the clock, and decided to draw.
2 - 3 - 2
I placed 52 of 75 (or something like this)
I made some minor mistakes during some games, but only two bigger once that had impact.
Letting the turn 1 delver on the board in favor of hand disruption was a bad call and led to a draw in a matchup that should have been a win (I was afraid of daze though)
The other was the wrong sindboard decision against 12 post, which I won anyway.
Biggest mistake was bringing no sweepers. Toxic Deluge or even Infest would have saved me multiple times. I guess I can cut the 2 Spinning Darkness for 2 Toxic Deluge. Nihil Spellbomb did nothing but you never know when you have to play against dredge or reanimator. Extirpate was nice against UR Delver, but could have been win more.
I will drop my SDT count to 2, just like OmniStrata suggested, and I'll try to make room for Sinkholes most likely dropping Hymn to Tourach, but I'm not sure about that. I dont really want to drop hymn, but there is nothing else I'd like to get rid of in favor of Sinkhole.
The tournament was fun, and adding Fetchland SDT to my list felt right for me. The whole list feels good. I seldomly had a opening 7 that was not keepable, and topdeck wars with SDT in play are way less frustrating. Empty the Pits creates a great clock where my opponents might have recovered otherwise. I'm willing to keep it as 1-of, and maybe switch my Bloodghast for another one when I add NoSB (which I most likly will do)
I find that Bloodghast is one of the best ways to keep Jace in check, and top decking is one of Pox's biggest weaknesses. It is also amazing with Cabal Therapy and the Entomb package I run. I also play G/B Pox with Life from the Loam and Crop Rotation (I was playing 3 Bloodghasts before moving Crop Rotation Main to support Dark Depths/Thespian Stage). So I also like a threat that I can Dredge over and it is easier for me to hit land drops with Loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by always be closing
Mono Black Pox tends to have Cursed Scroll which can answer a Jace, and doesn't run entomb or cabal therapy, so Bloodghast is not as good but it still feels amazing to discard to your own Liliana or Smallpox.
Ultimately, check your meta. If you REALLY have to force yourself to pick between Hymn and Sinkhole, you have to determine how fast your enemies empty their hands and how long games in general take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon666
If you find your games taking more than 3 turns, I'd go ahead and drop Hymn to Tourach. If your games are combo/burn/hyper speed aggro, Hymn is worth its wait in Plutonium. What would your list look like after that?
Um, what? Hymn is bad against fast decks, and better against slower strategies. if im facing aggro, I don't know if i have a turn to spend all my mana attacking your hand when im getting my face beat in.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
I actually like hymn against more aggressive decks, how many players are empty handed after turn 2? I tend to think of it more as Hymn is a 2 for 1 which is important against aggressive decks. I will gladly take one more hit from a goblin guide if it means taking a sulfuric vortex and lightning bolt from their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Obviously smallpox is the best turn two against a creature deck, but hymn is a close second. If you answer a creature turn 2 with a non-smallpox card, they are just going to play 2 more creatures from their hand next turn. If you take the 2 remaining creatures in their hand, then you can answer the creature next turn.
Hymn is always a bad draw late, if you are doing you job as a pox player they have no hand after turn 4, doesn't matter how aggressive they are. Against aggressive strategies I tend to take out the weakest 1 for 1s, usually some spot removal or single mana discard (obviously assuming I still need slots after taking out dead cards)
Combo decks. Hymn is Godly against decks that go for the jugular early early game. If you don't land that Dark Ritual -> Inquisition -> Hymn to Tourach, it's over. Can an aggro deck kill you by turn 3? In honesty, my experience, it's rare. With Innocent Blood, Spinning Darkness, Smallpox, and Liliana able to kill things on turn 3 or less, I've never been butchered by aggro unless it was of the combo variety [dredge]Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
If you can jam them with LD, Liliana will take care of the rest. By design, Pox is more Hand kill heavy than land kill heavy due to Hymn, Inquisition, and Liliana. Hymn is a bad top deck late, but Sinkhole? I've killed many a man-land to keep myself alive that a Hymn would have done nothing.
I guess I phrased my statement wrong. If your meta fights on the stack, Hymn is the way to go. If your meta kills by having a superior board presence, you'll want Sinkhole. Personally, I'd never build Pox in such a way that you'd need to choose, both are excellent cards in most situations anyway.
First, love the quote, I think I remember reading this (SCG article I think)Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
I totally agree with your comparison of hymn and sinkhole, I play G/B Pox so sinkhole is much less useful to me. It was more a comment to rlesko about how I find hymn is really good against a lot of the aggressive decks in the format, which I think is a common misconception.
I also dislike dark ritual, in part because I play G/B(which mean I also have less experience with mono black), but also because I'd rather have the extra card than the extra velocity.
Josh
I ran Golgari Pox a long time ago myself, but I ended doing much worse. Dark Ritual wouldn't work in a splash as you are correct. I need it though cause the occasionaly combo deck does pop up and the best way to to put your opponent in the worse case scenario really is turn 1 Liliana of the Veil.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Dark Ritual topdecked also feeds Cursed Scroll, Mishra's Factory armies, and for others, Phyrexian Totem [old school], or Tomb of Urami for the crazies. Now that I look at it, I may drop a Nether Spirit for the 3rd Cursed Scroll now that I no longer have a way to deal with 2 of them in the yard. I haven't tested Murderous Cut yet but when I get the chance... I'll have to see.
Some of you already tested sensei 's divining top in pox ?
Most seem to have success with it. Not I. I found it too conditional and mana intensive. ??? First you need to have a fetchland within 3-4 turns of casting SDT otherwise, your draws become garbage, which means you have to have Crucible in play which ALSO means you have to have used a fetchland already, paid 1 life, and thrown it into the graveyard. And you're always 1 mana short if you intend to keep topping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Ultimately, if I had to choose between a card filter vs. a hard draw, I'd go draw. Pack some Phyrexian Arenas and a bit of life-gain in Spinning Darkness. But hey, your mileage may vary right? :cry:
I like how in the first game the announcers thought after a key Smallpox they were into a long grind and remarking on what fun the Elves player was going to have next turn and then he drops a Thespian Stage and plays Crop Rotation into Dark Depths and they were like "oh crap, this has gotten ugly fast. this has escalated quickly" .Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto