[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

I agree that Mental Misstep is a card that probably should be played in Deadguy Ale, although maybe only in the SB. I don't think I would take out Dark Ritual or Mox, why not use both MM and mana acceleration for tempo?

Concerning Abyssal Persecutor. If you want to play it in this deck, I think you only really need 1 card to make sure you can get rid of it, and that is an equipment which allows you to sac a creature - Mortarpod. Including one copy of Mortarpod will mean that you get 5 extra cards (4 Mystics) that will help you get rid of Percy (even multiple Percys). And Mortarpod is not so bad on its own either, its decent with Bitterblossom (and maybe Nighthawk) too.

I've had 4 in the sideboard, and the more I play the deck, the more I want them maindeck. I'm starting to think it's Mental Misstep that deserves the maindeck spot, and the discard that deserves to be in board. Misstep/Hymn is a brutal combination right now, and Thoughtseize/Inquisition/Duress are all falling behind.

It's a question of tempo. A lot of people don't realize how big of a swing it is between, say, Thoughtseize and Mental Misstep. In both cases, you're trading a card for a card. The difference is who's spending the mana on the card. Mental Misstepping a 1-drop versus Thoughtseizing it is a swing of 2 mana. Misstep means you spend one less, and they spend one more. The tradeoff, obviously, is that you can't hit things that aren't CMC 1, but for that swing? It's tempting.

I intend to experiment with both a Misstep and a Misstep/Daze/Mage list pretty shortly. We'll see where it goes.

EDIT: FWIW, Yixlid Jailer's amazingly hot sex in sideboard right now, for all the things it can do against Loam, Manaless Dredge, and Cephalid Breakfast. Blows against Reanimator, but a split between him and Crypt/Extraction/Extirpate's worth it in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by Rizso

Its fine if they are chumping and sacing when blocking The obliterator he got trample for a reason :P

Trample also means if he is equiped you will get the sword effects even when blocked :P

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haha, I'm an idiot - for some reason I missed that he has the tramps.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I've had 4 in the sideboard, and the more I play the deck, the more I want them maindeck. I'm starting to think it's Mental Misstep that deserves the maindeck spot, and the discard that deserves to be in board. Misstep/Hymn is a brutal combination right now, and Thoughtseize/Inquisition/Duress are all falling behind....

....I intend to experiment with both a Misstep and a Misstep/Daze/Mage list pretty shortly. We'll see where it goes.

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Do you still run Wasteland in a list with blue? Do you change the creaturebase, would now be a good time to reconsider mother of runes, tidehollow sculler, and/or vampire nighthawk...often considered the worst cards in the list? If you're taking out discard, does Sculler get the axe in favor of countermagic as well? If you're running blue shouldn't you at least consider brainstorm since it's arguably the most undercosted card in the format? At what point do you just play Esperblade? These are the questions I've been asking myself when looking at blue - and I'm looking at blue so hard that I'm taking it to a local tonight, and probably a 1k over the weekend.

If you look at some of the esperblade lists you'll quickly see several very similar cards when compared to DGA:

4x Thoughtseize
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
1x Fourth Equipment

And several run Mother of Runes as well, and at least run a couple vindicate in the board, if not in the main.

That's 20-26 cards that are very similar in decks that run 22-24 land. When you add mental misstep to that list the differences between the 2 decks get even smaller...consider daze, and well, you get the point.

I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it here - in fact that's quite the opposite of what I mean to suggest. What I'm suggesting is that anyone that is toting an 8 card mystic package start to look at the "blade" decklists and consider what makes deadguy more or less viable as a competitor when compred to these lists, while learning from the people that are developing these lists - and bring that understanding back to this thread so that we can discuss what makes DGA the better choice, and discuss how we bridge the gaps and shore up the poor matchups that are created by running SFM as your primary threat, since many of us are starting to lean in that direction.

I doubt the esper version would be able to run Gatekeeper of Malakir. TBH using equipments require lots of mana and daze doesnt really fit into that plan. Only real thing outside of misstep from blue would be Brainstorm and Jace tbh. With the loads of GW maveriks and UW-stoneblade I dont really like FoW that much with the current meta. FoW would also require loads of blue cards.

You arent alone missing him having trample. Have missed it a couple of times when facing him in standard :P

As for Mortarpod, it removes bridges as well as kills any Dread Return enablers :P

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I've had 4 in the sideboard, and the more I play the deck, the more I want them maindeck. I'm starting to think it's Mental Misstep that deserves the maindeck spot, and the discard that deserves to be in board. Misstep/Hymn is a brutal combination right now, and Thoughtseize/Inquisition/Duress are all falling behind.

It's a question of tempo. A lot of people don't realize how big of a swing it is between, say, Thoughtseize and Mental Misstep. In both cases, you're trading a card for a card. The difference is who's spending the mana on the card. Mental Misstepping a 1-drop versus Thoughtseizing it is a swing of 2 mana. Misstep means you spend one less, and they spend one more. The tradeoff, obviously, is that you can't hit things that aren't CMC 1, but for that swing? It's tempting.

I intend to experiment with both a Misstep and a Misstep/Daze/Mage list pretty shortly. We'll see where it goes.

EDIT: FWIW, Yixlid Jailer's amazingly hot sex in sideboard right now, for all the things it can do against Loam, Manaless Dredge, and Cephalid Breakfast. Blows against Reanimator, but a split between him and Crypt/Extraction/Extirpate's worth it in a pinch.

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What do you run as your 1-drops? Seems like Misstep with cmc1 discard could set up a major early tempo gain. I would almost rather do that than Hymn, since it's competing with most of the creatures we run.

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Originally Posted by Rizso

I doubt the esper version would be able to run Gatekeeper of Malakir. TBH using equipments require lots of mana and daze doesnt really fit into that plan. Only real thing outside of misstep from blue would be Brainstorm and Jace tbh. With the loads of GW maveriks and UW-stoneblade I dont really like FoW that much with the current meta. FoW would also require loads of blue cards...

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I'm not saying that Esper would run gatekeeper, I'm just saying that there are a lot of cards that they do run and that we run. Hell, not even all DGA lists can run gatekeeper....I run 6 non-black lands in my deck and have trouble casting the guy sometimes despite having dark ritual.

I'm not a fan of FoW either (I think we're pretty far from the requisite 20 blue cards to make it happen) and I've never much liked daze - so we can agree there. Spell snare, spell pierce, and MM on the other hand are relevant and probably all worth consideration, depending on meta.

In my experience, once you start going down the blue road it's pretty easy to be sidetracked into esperblade - especially since brainstorm combined with bob and gaga really streamlines the deck and pretty much garuntee's a broken Turn 2 play. And it doesn't take long to start subbing countermagic for discard.

Lets say we should play misstep in the main how many should we really be playing? We dont have Brainstorm to shuffle away quite useless lategame Missteps when we are facing down Goyfs, KotR or a Jace.

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Originally Posted by Rizso

Lets say we should play misstep in the main how many should we really be playing? We dont have Brainstorm to shuffle away quite useless lategame Missteps when we are facing down Goyfs, KotR or a Jace.

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Nor do we have a way to shuffle away useless lategame Hymns or IoK/Duress/TS. Not knocking them, just saying that poor mid/late draws are a problem that this deck always struggles with.

MM isn't useless in mid/lategame, as Swords/Paths are Number one Removal and Cantrips usually cost 1 Mana. In my opinion, Legacy is the format that features the most viable 1-Drops in Magic, so a late drawn MM is more useful than a late drawn Discard-Spell, as the Cheese said

My current list is:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Tainted Field
3 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Grand Abolisher
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir

// Spells
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Chrome Mox
3 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Runed Halo
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 Serenity
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor


Any comments? what do you think in add 2 Grand Abolisher?

Grand Abolisher is junk. Most of the things you want him to stop happen on your opponents turn anyway. He's WW for a mildly disruptive 2/2.

I'd play Fetid Heath over Tainted Field, and probably Godless Shrine too.

You only need 3 equipment, and Sword of Body and mind nuts. I've been saying it for months but SoBaM is the only sword you need main. It stops Goyfs/KotR/Fish/Jace.

Discard is obviously at it's best in the first few turns, but it's rarely dead. Yes MM still stops removal, but removal shouldn't be your biggest concern by a long short.

If you're playing SFM, you should be, and not Bitterblossom you're wrong. At worst BB is a Forcefield against Goyfs and other fatties. A token trades with Clique. They carry equipment like a champ.

Vampire Nighthawk has always been, and still is, garbage. Why do I want to pay 3 for a 2/3 even if it does have flying, lifelink, and deathtouch? If you want a flyer with deatchtouch add Basilisk Collar, that way you have an endless supply of Nighthawks.

In the 4 slot I'd much rather have Elspeth than Persecutor. Yes you have to have double white and sometimes you just don't. You'll have the double white more often than you'll have the removal for Persecutor as soon as he kills, barring Therapy of course. Elspeth protects herself, doesn't fail the Jace test, and kills almost as quickly.

If you're gonna splash blue I think you should be playing Stifle. The card is so good in the meta right now. It stops SFM's cip, Batterskull from coming in with a Germ on it. Jace activations, but not the cost which can be a double edged sword. It beats Hive Mind, Clique, Deed, EE, fetches etc.

So.. I dont know if i should play 2MentalMisstep or include 4 of them... while kicking out cc1 Discard but OFC leaving Hymn in, its too good.

And please guys..do me a favor.. dont splash blue. There was one Esperbladelist placing 22th of some over 400 players, and I thought, ye lets prox it. And i tried it out vs my own DGA list and the Esperblade one failed so hard... really it sucked. It had MM Brainstorm Spell Snare and Spell Pierce included... I think it took the Esperblade like 10 games to beat my list once - and that was only because I kept some greedz hand... So please - go and switch to a decent blue deck and dont splash it in DGA DONT. Thank you:)

About Vampire Nighthawk: I prefer playing Mirran Crusader in his Slot, shifting this deck more towards white but its ok for me.

And ye, please guys, get SoBaM mainboard, its really great :)

It doesn't matter if Esperblade has a bad MU to your DGA if it beats most of the other decks ;)

Actually I dont think it does.

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

Grand Abolisher is junk. Most of the things you want him to stop happen on your opponents turn anyway. He's WW for a mildly disruptive 2/2.

Vampire Nighthawk has always been, and still is, garbage. Why do I want to pay 3 for a 2/3 even if it does have flying, lifelink, and deathtouch? If you want a flyer with deatchtouch add Basilisk Collar, that way you have an endless supply of Nighthawks.

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I could hug you for this.

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

Discard is obviously at it's best in the first few turns, but it's rarely dead. Yes MM still stops removal, but removal shouldn't be your biggest concern by a long short.

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I agree that discard is rarely dead, but it gets progressively worse as the game goes on. Late in the game you might still hit some good cards with Hymn, but if you're staring down some fatties and that's all you drew, you basically gave them a free combat step with it. I almost feel like discard needs to become a 3-of like Moxen, something you want to see in the first few turns, but not necessarily multiples of.

Also stopping removal is just a bonus of Misstep. The main utility is stopping critical one-drops, but the ability to hit Swords/Path/Bolt makes it a bit more relevant than say Thoughtsieze late in the game.

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

Grand Abolisher is junk. Most of the things you want him to stop happen on your opponents turn anyway. He's WW for a mildly disruptive 2/2.

Vampire Nighthawk has always been, and still is, garbage. Why do I want to pay 3 for a 2/3 even if it does have flying, lifelink, and deathtouch? If you want a flyer with deatchtouch add Basilisk Collar, that way you have an endless supply of Nighthawks.

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I could hug you for this.

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

Discard is obviously at it's best in the first few turns, but it's rarely dead. Yes MM still stops removal, but removal shouldn't be your biggest concern by a long short.

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I agree that discard is rarely dead, but it gets progressively worse as the game goes on. Late in the game you might still hit some good cards with Hymn, but if you're staring down some fatties and that's all you drew, you basically gave them a free combat step with it. I almost feel like discard needs to become a 3-of like Moxen, something you want to see in the first few turns, but not necessarily multiples of.

Also stopping removal is just a bonus of Misstep. The main utility is stopping critical one-drops, but the ability to hit Swords/Path/Bolt makes it a bit more relevant than say Thoughtsieze late in the game.

I currently run 2 Missteps but thinking of running 3, using them mostly to get stuff active rather then countering creatures wich i have 12 other cards to kill them with.

Currently testing out 3 phyrexian arena in additional to the 4 bobs. No longer any bitterblossoms. There are so many matchups where i need to have an active bob but their lifespan is mostly kept short. This is reason for trying them out.

And the board im thinking of now is:

3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 perish
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

If Ancient Grudge starts to show up alot more then probly a Hanna's Custody will be in the board.

I'm a little skeptical about SoBM being the only sword needed main, at least as a sweeping claim. Maybe a build with less creatures (~10-12) that uses BB and Elspeth would like it because of the additional bodies and the ability for the 3/3 tokens to slide past 5/6s, but I'd say a build with ~20 creatures and vial would benefit more from SoLS or SoFI to get the pain/life and CA in. If someone makes another primer, adding the pros/cons of the swords might be a great addition to it.

Perish and discard are probably the best answers to Zoo I can think of. Take away some aggression (they'll always win the aggro race) and play like midrange, right?

One thing I've noticed playing Deadguy is that I always scoop to Reanimator if it puts in Iona and names white. A lot of you are already doing it, but I'd recommend running Gatekeepers or at least one monoblack (preferably 2cc like GftT because of Missteps in the B/U build) removal spell, too.

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Originally Posted by Anthem

I'm a little skeptical about SoBM being the only sword needed main, at least as a sweeping claim.

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Agreed. I'm way beyond skeptical. Sword of Body and Mind is absolutely terrible. It offers no removal, no lifegain, no card advantage, and very limited protection from removal. There are way better options.

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One thing I've noticed playing Deadguy is that I always scoop to Reanimator if it puts in Iona and names white. A lot of you are already doing it, but I'd recommend running Gatekeepers or at least one monoblack (preferably 2cc like GftT because of Missteps in the B/U build) removal spell, too.

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Like the rest of the world, your life will become simpler if you run more graveyard hate in your sideboard. This will help matters. And yes, Gatekeeper is neat here. I did once beat Iona on white when I only had a Stoneforge on the board and managed to outrace it with a Jitte'd Batterskull'd Germ Token (I swung with the Stoneforge carrying the Jitte once to ensure I could swing through Iona intact.)

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Agreed. I'm way beyond skeptical. Sword of Body and Mind is absolutely terrible. It offers no removal, no lifegain, no card advantage, and very limited protection from removal. There are way better options.

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I literally laughed out loud. SoBM is far from terrible. It may not actually physically change your life total but it does gain you life, easily 2-5 a turn (or a whole lot more on a Batterskulled germ), by having your wolf step in front of a Goyf/Knight/Nacatl/Fish etc. It doesn't do much for card advantage true, but it can definitely get rid of problems before they happen. The protection is extremely relevant since it lets you swing past 90% of the field. Yes you don't get to stop real removal spells, but it doesn't really matter most of the time. You do get to stop your threat from being bounced by Jace and you get to kill Jace because the only things to step in front of it are usually Clique or something green.

On second thought... SoBM is bad. You guys play the other swords and I'll keep placing at every event I play in.

Agreed - I always play Jitte Batterskull SoBaM and depending on my mood / or when boarding a second Jitte or some other SoXaY - but SoBaM is mainbaord :)

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

I literally laughed out loud. SoBM is far from terrible. It may not actually physically change your life total but it does gain you life, easily 2-5 a turn (or a whole lot more on a Batterskulled germ), by having your wolf step in front of a Goyf/Knight/Nacatl/Fish etc. It doesn't do much for card advantage true, but it can definitely get rid of problems before they happen. The protection is extremely relevant since it lets you swing past 90% of the field. Yes you don't get to stop real removal spells, but it doesn't really matter most of the time. You do get to stop your threat from being bounced by Jace and you get to kill Jace because the only things to step in front of it are usually Clique or something green.

On second thought... SoBM is bad. You guys play the other swords and I'll keep placing at every event I play in.

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Tim, could you answer my earlier question about SoBM in all builds of Deadguy? Do you think a more creature-heavy version would benefit as much from SoBM as your more token-oriented build? During what matchups would SoBM have to leave, and for what?

No one is questioning your playskill, quite the opposite, I'm searching for your (and any) opinion on the circumstances where each sword would/wouldn't be viable. I think this question is pretty pivotal in regards to Deadguy as a deck.

I think SoBM is even better in a creature heavy build because it lets you keep your key creatures around while giving you free blockers to step up to every nasty that threatens your life total.

I don't like SoLS at all, unless your meta is 15%+ Bw. You have to have a creature in you yard to bring back. You then have to have open mana to play that guy again, just for him to probably die again next turn. Yes you stop StP, Path, and GftT, but you don't swing past almost any creatures, except SFM, Bob, and Germs, meaning that the likelihood of getting the life and your dude back are much slimmer.

SoFI is obviously good against Merfolk, but Merfolk is pretty much a bye anyway and SoBM is almost as good. SoBM is actually better if they have a 2+ lords out. It's ok versus NO Bant, but Pro-Green is really want you there too.

I board Sword of War and Peace. I bring it in against Zoo because Batterskull is almost dead against them since SFM will never ever live long enough to bring it in. Once it's on a dude, which isn't the easiest, all you need to do is get past Goyf/Nacatl. It's pretty handy against Burn as well. It should also come in against Uw Landstill because it drastically increases your clock and keeps them from using the only spot removal, if they don't play Shackles.

SoBaM has been very, very good for me. I'm with Tim on almost all of the Sword choices. People seriously underestimate the protections with SoBaM.

Tim, mind posting your recent decklist?

well, I've been screwing around with a deadguy list that splashes blue for brainstorm, misstep and Shadowmage Infiltrator. I went 1-2 with it at a local on Thursday...tweeked it a bit and took it to Jupiter Games for a 3k today. I was 5-1-1 in 7 rounds of swiss and made it to the top 8, with my only loss in the swiss coming from Dredge because i wasn't packing enough hate for it.

I played against Reanimator, Dredge, Merfolk, NO Bant (with Show and Tell), Blue Zoo, and ANT (I also drew into the top8 with an esperblade player). I lost in the top 8 to bant (no natural order) - poor mulligan choices, missplays, and massive land drawing (I saw 8 of my 21 land in both games) - it was a long day and my deck wasn't shuffled right after having it sorted for deck registration...oh well, still took home $125.

I'll post a link to the decklist and give a more thurough report sometime this week after I've had some time to sleep - but the basic message is that splashing blue does not make the deck weaker...and enlightened tutor into Phyrexian Metamorph is probably one of the best plays in magic against the current meta - metamorph simply handed me wins today...just amazing.

If I can play the deck as is for a few weeks and really tune it I think it easilly has a chance to be Tier 1 - as long as a player who is actually competent at gameplay is piloting the deck....unlike me, lol.

gratz to your Standing!

I am really looking forward for the Report and the List

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Originally Posted by bokwinkle

well, I've been screwing around with a deadguy list that splashes blue for brainstorm, misstep and Shadowmage Infiltrator.

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Wait a minute. I thought talking about adding colors was verbotten?

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Originally Posted by ???

If DeadGuy needs three colors to win, then for the sake of leading the discussion I'd rather archive this thread and everyone move to the rock thread.

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Ye please, before you post a 3 color report here...post it in the esperblade.. this is meant to be DeadguyAle...not some blue ******** :P
Greetings

cut the crap and let him post his report ;)

I play around with a red-splash for over 6 Months now, and it would be called Deadguy too (if I can make it actually work^^) so stop this name-rant and wait til List and report are on.

hahaa...no, it's a fair jab, I definately made those comments. But people that are already preaching about running misstep probably don't have room to complain about me splashing for a couple other blue cards.

I'll probably post my results in the esperblade thread and just drop a comment in here when I post it - but I'm sure I'll be laughed out of that thread as well since I don't 8 cantrips or force of will...but whatever works.

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Originally Posted by bokwinkle

hahaa...no, it's a fair jab, I definately made those comments. But people that are already preaching about running misstep probably don't have room to complain about me splashing for a couple other blue cards.

I'll probably post my results in the esperblade thread and just drop a comment in here when I post it - but I'm sure I'll be laughed out of that thread as well since I don't 8 cantrips or force of will...but whatever works.

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The same as I would have if I had posted my Deadguy + Goyf deck in the Rock thread. Which was my point all along. I feel that play style is a much more of a determining factor in which thread to use than exactly what cards/colors are used.

Really hope hivemind doesnt get more populare. Seem so fast and resilient. If it does we probly need to up the extirpate / Surgical Extraction count in the board even further.

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Originally Posted by Rizso

Really hope hivemind doesnt get more populare. Seem so fast and resilient. If it does we probly need to up the extirpate / Surgical Extraction count in the board even further.

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Extirpates should be a 3-4 of in the SB anyways. with so many blue decks running rampant (not including hivemind), its essential to use it.

OK my first proper match report. I posted this on mtgsalvation as well but figured there may be more traffic here so reposted it here as well. Would appreciate if anyone with clout could advise me on how to improve or how I can move on from here, as this was particularly demoralizing for me.

[deck]
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
6 Swamp

3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Go for the Throat
4 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
4 Vindicate
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach

Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Serenity
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Ghostly Prison
3 Bitterblossom

Legacy Tournament 24/7/11
Turnout: 32
Format: 5 swiss rounds with cut to T8
prizes: dual lands and wastelands for T4, sets of knight of the reliquary for T5-8.

Match 1: thopter sword/scepter chant (w/u control shell)

Game 1 (I was on the draw)

Opponent keeps 4 lands, 2 scepters and 1 spell snare.
Turn 1 he plays a land and passes. I dark ritual, hymn to tourach eats spell snare, thoughtseize resolves and sees TWO Isochron Scepter and a bunch of land so I discard scepter.

The big turn was when my opponent topdecks orim's chant on turn 3 and pulls off the combo. Game over as I have no instant speed artifact removal or Krosan Grip effects.

SB: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Go for the Throat, +3 Phyrexian revoker, +1 Enlightened Tutor +1 Serenity, opponent none (thanks to opponent for telling me this after the match, he claims he didn't see green so assumes I had no instant speed answer like Krosan Grip, which was correct)

Game 2 (I was on the play)

Opponent keeps 5 lands, Swords to Plowshares and Isochron Scepter. I mull to 6 due to no land hand.
Turn 1 only lands by both players.
Turn 2 dark confidant resolves but eats a Swords to Plowshares. Turn 3 vindicate a basic plains and play Umezawa's jitte. I was hoping to keep him down to 2 lands, which was successful in that aspect.

Turn 4
a timely Thoughtseize sees a grip of Isochron Scepter,Tezzeret, the Seeker and Thopter Foundry as notable cards. Several turns of wasteland activations and draw go, then opponent pulls off combo.

0-2 (0-1)

Thoughts:

My opponent admitted he got lucky with topdecks (pulls off combo despite all the disruption). He expected me to sideboard Leyline of Sanctity which i did not have, but I sheepishly pretended I did because I was embarrassed at being blown out so quickly without much of a response.

My friend who was spectating pointed out that in G2 I should not have vindicated the plains and saved it for Isochron Scepter instead. However, a good opponent would just wait for counterspell mana up as he knows my only answer is vindicate. No answers to combo in MD/SB (instant artifact removal may have helped). I really didn't expect to lose to this deck.

Match 2: u/g/b/w psychatog + life from the loam a.k.a loam-a-tog

Game 1 (I was on the play):

T2 Umezawa's jitte eats force spike,
T3 vampire nighthawk resolves. Opponent intuitions for 3 accumulated knowledge.
T4 a second vampire nighthawk eats a 2nd force spike, opponent plays psychatog. EOT I shoot a swords to plowshares which sees mental misstep, but I have a 2nd
swords to plowshares which resolves.
T5 he passes the turn without a play and my Hymn to Tourach eats a hardcast Force of Will (I didn't see that coming).
All this while my Vampire Nighthawk has been beating down dilligently as a lone clock. He uses Cunning wish for Fact or Fiction with 2 cards in hand in response to my topdecked Hymn to Tourach which I was intending to discard his hand with. The flipped cards were Life From The Loam, counterspell, force spike,lonely sandbar, cunning wish. I split counterspell and force spike on one side and the rest in the other. He picks the counterspell pile and uses counterspell so I know his hand only contains force spike. I thought i was in good shape as long as he didn't get a Vedalken Shackles or Engineered Explosives because he has both Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins in his graveyard which could spell trouble. And as luck would have had it, he topdecked a cunning wish which finds Enlightened Tutor for vedalken shackles, and despite a topdecked Vindicate which bought me a turn, the Life from the Loam/lonely sandbar/academy ruins/
vedalken shackles engine wins with him at 5 life left.

SB: + 3 phyrexian revoker, +1 relic of progenitus, +3 bitterblossom, -1 Go for the Throat -3 Vampire Nighthawk -3 Gatekeeper of Malakir, opponent none as he was using a Cunning Wishboard

Game 2 (play):

T2 Stoneforge Mystic resolves and gets batterskull.
Next turn I "Vial" in batterskull, and then attempt a relic of progenitus that forces a mental mistep. Confidant eats a
counterspell.
I hardcast a Sword of Body and Mind which resolves. The Stoneforge Mystic picks it up and goes to town hand-in-hand with Batterskull. The combined beatdown eventually gets me there.

At this point there was 10 minutes left in the round.
Me: 'We might not be able to finish the last game'
Opponent: 'Of course we will'
Me: *uneasy look*

Game 3 (play):

Opponent keeps a slow hand apparantly, has no answers to the T2/T3 Stoneforge Mystic/batterskull combo, despite an Accumulated Knowledge in response. Eventually I stick a Bitterblossom and a Umezawa's Jitte. Thoughtseize reveals a hand full of land. I must say there was good sportsmanship on my opponent's part because he could have time-wasted and it would have ended in a draw.

2-1 (1-1)

Thoughts:

Due to recursion engine in this matchup, discard is less effective. G1 was lost due to a lack of a fast clock, Vampire Nighthawk is too slow. Combined with Swords to Plowshares on his Psychatog (which he made into a 3/4 to gain 3 life), the clock is even slower.

The Life from the Loam/Academy Ruins/Lonely Sandbar/random artifact recursion engine is scary, he had so many outs apparently, I learnt that Engineered Explosives, Vedalken Shackles, and Pernicious Deed (if i recall correctly) were all present in his deck afterwards.

In other words, I should have lost this match.

Match 3: ubg landstill

Game 1 (I was on the play):

T2 An attempted dark confidant eats Force of Will pitching a Brainstorm, T3 vampire nighthawk resolves. T4 and attempted 2nd vampire nighthawk gets counterspelled, and then opponent has T4 jace, the mind sculptor bouncing nighthawk. Subsequently a gatekeeper of malakir unkicked and a dark confidant resolve, a thoughtseize gets
mental misstepped and I got to see what he was hiding: a pernicious deed 3-for-1s and kills dark confidant, gatekeeper of malakir, and vampire nighthawk. Jace, the mind sculptor cleans up.

SB: -3 vampire nighthawk, -3 gatekeeper of malakir, -1 go for the throat, +3 phyrexian revoker, +3 bitterblossom, +1 enlightened tutor

My opponent said he didn't sideboard as he decided his MD was equipped to deal with creature strategies well.

Game 2 (I was on the play):

I kept what i felt was a god hand. Swamp go, Flooded Strand go.
T2 swamp, dark ritual (resolves), hymn (spell snare), dark confidant (Force of Will pitching Spell Snare). I slumped in my chair.
To make things worse, T3 he played mishra's factory and standstill and i broke it with a hymn to tourach which eats a Spell Snare after the Standstill trigger on T4. He then proceeds to play another Standstill and at this point there was an air of inevitability. Several wastelands hit and another mishra's factory eats my topdecked Swords to Plowshares, but my opponent draws into lands and lands jace, the mind sculptor with a full hand. Scoop.

0-2 (1-2)

Thoughts:

My friend pointed out that my opponent's list was exceedingly similar to PV's list from the GP.
2 back to back standstills was game-changing in G2.

Not sure what I could have done differently. This was quite bad.

Match 4: Artifact Stompy a.k.a MUD

Game 1 (I was on the play):

My opponents mulligans once.

T1
Swamp into dark ritual into Inquisition of Kozilek on turn 1 seeing a grip of ancient tomb, mishra's factory, lodestone golem, ancient tomb, island, chalice of the void) and picked chalice of the void. Finished the turn off with a Hymn to Tourach (I wish I had pulled this off in G2 of the last match).

He lays land and passes.

T2
I lay a Scrubland and pass, he lands mox diamond pitching mishra's factory, city of traitors and a Lodestone Golem. EOT Swords to Plowshares on the Lodestone Golem.

T3
His board is now left with ancient tomb, mox diamond, city of traitors. I vindicate the ancient tomb with another vindicate waiting in my hand.

He sees that I'm trying to blow out his mana base and plays an ancient tomb which he just topdecked, killing his own city of traitors.

T4
I show him my second Vindicate on the new Ancient Tomb, he mana screws.

T5
Stoneforge Mystic fetching Batterskull. He scoops.

SB: +1 ghostly prison, +1 Enlightened Tutor, +1 serenity, -3 vampire nighthawk.
After the match he tells me he just brought in more Chalice of the Void.

I would have brought in Engineered Plague but I didn't see any Goblin Welder.

Game 2 (I was on the draw):

I kept a land-heavy slow hand but with Serenity in it.

T1:
Ancient tomb - Phyrexian Revoker naming Stoneforge Mystic.
I lay land with no play.

T2:
Mishra's Factory lands for him. Phyrexian Revoker crashes in. (me @ 18 life)
I lay land with no play.

T3:
Adaptive Automaton naming horror enters play, he attacks with Mishra's Factory and Phyrexian Revoker (me @ 13 life)
I lay a land and kick a gatekeeper of malakir, he thinks for a bit and sacrifices the Phyrexian Revoker.

T4:
He goes for broke this turn. Lodestone Golem + Phyrexian Metamorph copying the golem. Now he has a total of 14 power on the board (5/3, 5/3, 2/2 (Adaptive automaton), 2/2 (mishra's factory)) while I have a lone gatekeeper of malakir.
I decide to drop my serenity now, and tap 4 lands to do so.

T5:
All in swing! 5/3, 5/3, 2/2, 2/2. Gatekeeper of malakir trades with mishra's factory and I fall to 1 life.
Serenity Resolves and 3-for-1s.

I then land back to back Vindicates on his lands while his hand has no gas. I stoneforge mystic into batterskull and he scoops before I even get to 'vial' batterskull into play.

2-0 (2-2)

Thoughts:

Despite the score I would say the games are rather close. I won G1 on the back of fast discard to take out all his gas, and G2 i kept a slow hand with serenity and fell to 1 life before stabilizing. I'm glad i cast that enchantment at exactly the right time.

Outcome:
Following this I dropped from the tournament as there was no chance of making T8 at 2-2, even if i won the next match at 3-2 it wouldn't be enough.

I then found out that the top4 were goblin belcher, blue zoo, zoo, and dark horizons (the decklists for the top4 can be found here)..

Any suggestions/comments/criticisms are welcome, with regards to my deck/sideboard/decision-making in game. I hope to improve myself as a pilot of this deck, thanks for reading!

that's a lot of information on a report man - bummer on the finish, but at least you had a chance to pilot to a few wins.

---------

So rather than talk about blue specifically, I'll talk about the cards that really make this deck currently tick and my current stance on them.

First off, wasteland. The current meta is currently dominated by decks that are either 1 or 2 colors (that easilly dodge wasteland via basic fetching) or decks that run some ammount (4-8) of birds/noble hierarchs and/or 6-8 ponder/brainstorms to mana fix. In 8 rounds of play wasteland never helped me - even against land light decks like dredge and ANT. Of all of the decks that make up the current meta I only see a couple that would really be effected by wasteland. This won't stay this way forever, but currently everyone is finding ways to dodge wasteland. The only wasteland target that I was worried about all day was Maze of Ith, and I never saw it....plus I was packing vindicate. I've become thuroughly convinced that mana denial is no longer a viable option in the current format - plus the f'in card has jumped to $70.

Which leads me to Vindicate. It destroys equipment, land, and planeswalkers - but it's slow as death. I keep getting the feeling that this card is a sideboard card. I'd almost rather run Path to Exile in it's place, but I don't want 6 dead removal spells against combo. I want to push this card to board so badly...but sadly it's staying as a 2-of for me.

Vampire Nighthawk - I have confirmed that there are better creatures at the 3-drop spot than this guy. I didn't wish for him all day - he's small (slow clock and killable by cards with lightning in the title) and makes for awkward mana in decks that don't want to be dominate by black - he simply isn't worth it.

Mental Misstep - combined with 1cc discard and 1cc removal and a 2cmc finisher (stoneforge) this card meant that I never wanted accelleration all day long. The card was a beast against zoo, solid against combo, and extremely efficient at getting my discard spells to land...all while protecting bob and SFM from swords. This card was good all day long - I only boarded it out once, (against Fish).

1 cmc discard - I don't care if you run thoughtseize, cabal therapy, duress, IOK whatever...it protects turn 2 bob or SFM, gives you information about how to play against your opponent and acts as an offensive card against combo for disruption. And there are many times where it's simply a tempo blowout - because you take their turn 2 play and counter their turn 1 play with misstep. I simply would not play Bob without at least 6 1 cmc discard spells, regardless of Misstep becoming dominant in the format. The question becomes: if you run Bob, misstep, and maybe even bitterblossom, can you really run thoughtseize? I did run thoughtseize and I nearly killed myself in many games, and did kill myself a coulple times by forcing myself into conservative play because of low life. If Natural Order wasn't so prevelant in the meta I probably wouldn't run thoughtseize at all.

Stoneforge Package - SOFI, Jitte, and Batterskull are still the "must have" equipment. However, something that offers pro-green is also relevant since all of the blockers in the format are green. F&F offers some nice synergy with the other discard in our deck and can be a complete blowout if you're already drawing cards by allowing the deck to overcome it's late-game mana-hungry nature that is typical with decks that run equipment - I found that I could swing with the sword, then re-equip the sword to untapped creatures so that I could block with it as well. However, Sword of BM's ability to generate creatures to equip to, and a "secondary clock" (mill) is extremely valuable and it's interactions with extirpate should not be ignored - plus blue creatures are currently more common in the meta than black. I honestly don't think I have a preferance over the two Pro-Green swords atm. The only tipping point in favor of F&F is that it means that I have 4 protections in my deck instead of 3.

Enlightened Tutor - Play it, it's just that good. This card enables your deck to overcome so many bad matchups that I really don't really want to spend the time writing them all out. However, Phyrexian Metamorph won me games (and matches) all day long against all of the combo decks - and it's perfectly playable without blue mana....especially as a tutorable one-of. Plus it can go get bitterblossom against removal heavy decks or act as a 5th stoneforge when you need an equipment other than batterskull. This is the swiss army knife for this deck, it's 100% playable despite being a "top-deck tutor".

Acceleration - generally I don't think it's needed unless you are running an alternate finisher that is 4cmc or more. I don't think it's worth the card disadvantage when you can run so many 1cmc spells.

that just leaves bob and swords - and we know they're good.

I'll talk about board cards later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bokwinkle

that's a lot of information on a report man - bummer on the finish, but at least you had a chance to pilot to a few wins.
First off, wasteland. The current meta is currently dominated by decks that are either 1 or 2 colors (that easilly dodge wasteland via basic fetching) or decks that run some ammount (4-8) of birds/noble hierarchs and/or 6-8 ponder/brainstorms to mana fix. In 8 rounds of play wasteland never helped me - even against land light decks like dredge and ANT. Of all of the decks that make up the current meta I only see a couple that would really be effected by wasteland. This won't stay this way forever, but currently everyone is finding ways to dodge wasteland. The only wasteland target that I was worried about all day was Maze of Ith, and I never saw it....plus I was packing vindicate. I've become thuroughly convinced that mana denial is no longer a viable option in the current format - plus the f'in card has jumped to $70.

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So what is your suggestions on the # of wastelands to run? I have been running 3 because I have a color hungry deck, but I agree with a lot of your points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bokwinkle

Mental Misstep - combined with 1cc discard and 1cc removal and a 2cmc finisher (stoneforge) this card meant that I never wanted accelleration all day long. The card was a beast against zoo, solid against combo, and extremely efficient at getting my discard spells to land...all while protecting bob and SFM from swords. This card was good all day long - I only boarded it out once, (against Fish).

1 cmc discard - I don't care if you run thoughtseize, cabal therapy, duress, IOK whatever...it protects turn 2 bob or SFM, gives you information about how to play against your opponent and acts as an offensive card against combo for disruption. And there are many times where it's simply a tempo blowout - because you take their turn 2 play and counter their turn 1 play with misstep. I simply would not play Bob without at least 6 1 cmc discard spells, regardless of Misstep becoming dominant in the format. The question becomes: if you run Bob, misstep, and maybe even bitterblossom, can you really run thoughtseize? I did run thoughtseize and I nearly killed myself in many games, and did kill myself a coulple times by forcing myself into conservative play because of low life. If Natural Order wasn't so prevelant in the meta I probably wouldn't run thoughtseize at all.

Stoneforge Package - SOFI, Jitte, and Batterskull are still the "must have" equipment. However, something that offers pro-green is also relevant since all of the blockers in the format are green. F&F offers some nice synergy with the other discard in our deck and can be a complete blowout if you're already drawing cards by allowing the deck to overcome it's late-game mana-hungry nature that is typical with decks that run equipment - I found that I could swing with the sword, then re-equip the sword to untapped creatures so that I could block with it as well. However, Sword of BM's ability to generate creatures to equip to, and a "secondary clock" (mill) is extremely valuable and it's interactions with extirpate should not be ignored - plus blue creatures are currently more common in the meta than black. I honestly don't think I have a preferance over the two Pro-Green swords atm. The only tipping point in favor of F&F is that it means that I have 4 protections in my deck instead of 3.

Enlightened Tutor - Play it, it's just that good. This card enables your deck to overcome so many bad matchups that I really don't really want to spend the time writing them all out. However, Phyrexian Metamorph won me games (and matches) all day long against all of the combo decks - and it's perfectly playable without blue mana....especially as a tutorable one-of. Plus it can go get bitterblossom against removal heavy decks or act as a 5th stoneforge when you need an equipment other than batterskull. This is the swiss army knife for this deck, it's 100% playable despite being a "top-deck tutor".

---

I’m beginning to shift towards your thinking about 1cmc discard. I used to relish the idea of chrome moxing out a 2 drop that would immediately make up for the card disadvantage, but the format is slower now and the faster decks are better dealt with using discard.

Any changes on # of Etutor mainboard?

Also, I feel like sensei’s divining top would be a nice addition to your sort of list as well (I suppose it fights for spots with brainstorm). It works well with enlightened tutor for when you need the enchantment now, or have a small window to capitalize on a tapped out opponent or something.
Also, your sideboard definitely left you vulnerable against dredge.

thanks so much for taking the time and energy to explain the cards to me guys, I really appreciate it. Bokwinkle, I'll be awaiting your next post about the board cards then :)

EDIT: I didn't manage to face any dredge this time round, I figured Ghostly Prison and Engineered Plague naming Spirit or Horror can hurt them quite a bit.
I am now considering Chains of Mephistopheles as an answer to card draw, but it seems rather cheesy.

Also, if its not too much trouble, hope the experienced dudes can let me know how you would change my deck around with some reasoning if possible, as I would likely be trying for the same tournament again next month with this deck (its a monthly-to-bimonthly series, with appropriate breaks during holiday months).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingdude

So what is your suggestions on the # of wastelands to run? I have been running 3 because I have a color hungry deck, but I agree with a lot of your points..

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My thoughts on wastelands? Well, it's a tough call. If you are determined to run 2 colors then wasteland generally won't hurt you (very often), so it doesn't make sense to really remove them from the list. However, their effectiveness is no longer garunteed without the use of other mana denial strategies to back them up. For instance, you could run a 1-of crucible to tutor for with E-Tutor, or run Hymns, 4 Vindicates, etc.. Mana denial is possible when combined with discard and Misstep - I just feel like it's a risky strategy to employ because it will take a up a ton of space in the deck that will potentially be dead very quickly if you don't see it at the right time.

Personally, I'd rather scrap the wastelands and go to a third color while still being relatively wasteland resistant yourself (you can run 7-8 basics and 6-7 fetches in a 3-color deck without too many issues). Even if you want to be color greedy in a 2-color build - with something like Obliterators, hymns, and/or Crusaders scrapping wasteland may prove to be more helpful than keeping it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingdude

I’m beginning to shift towards your thinking about 1cmc discard. I used to relish the idea of chrome moxing out a 2 drop that would immediately make up for the card disadvantage, but the format is slower now and the faster decks are better dealt with using discard..

---

Well, honestly, I loved Dark Ritual - it was soooo good in so many games. Accelleration into something broken is how a lot of decks are winning right now - the question becomes, can we do it better than they can? I don't think we can, because our accelleration is straight up card disadvantage - whereas birds and hierarchs can be equiped, chumped, carry swords, etc.. That's not to say that accelleration is off limits to us because other decks do it better...but I'd rather focus on what we do best - which is card advantage and control through discard and removal. If we control the game in the first 1-4 turns all accelleration becomes dead and suddenly we create a situation where these decks that run accelleration have a lot of dead cards.

All of that being said - I still love the 2 mana spells that net card advantage...I'd just rather see them on turn 2, backed up by Misstep or t1 discard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingdude

Any changes on # of Etutor mainboard? .

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Everyone keeps asking me that :) Anyone that looks at my list always says I should up the E-tutors in the main deck - from Pro's to scrubs...it's pretty universal. The only person I've ever seen run a 1-of E-tutor (other than me) also posts in this forum and has Top-8'd a large event with his build of deadguy (tim the enchanter). When I was fishing his list, I loved the 1-of E-tutor so much that I felt like I had to find a way to incorporate into any DGA build that I made.

The thing with the 1-of is this - it's unobtrusive while turning all of my 1-of's into 2-of's. Ultimately E-tutor is still card disadvantage, so I like to temper how much of that I include in the maindeck...plus my targets are pretty limited too (7 total). Before the deck is brought to another big tourney this may change to a 2-of, but I haven't really streamlined it enough to tell for sure yet. I'll probably be looking to open up a couple more sideboard slots too, so this is probably one of the ways I'll do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingdude

Also, I feel like sensei’s divining top would be a nice addition to your sort of list as well (I suppose it fights for spots with brainstorm). It works well with enlightened tutor for when you need the enchantment now, or have a small window to capitalize on a tapped out opponent or something.

---

Well...Yes. The problem I have with top is that it's actually card disadvantage, and I generally don't have the patience to do it every turn...lol. There are serious upsides to top though, especially if I'm getting there with a Finkle/Bob/SoFI already, and especially when I basically run 12 maindeck shuffle effects....plus it's tutorable with E-tutor. The way I generally look at it is this: Top is awesome with Finkle/Bob/SoFI when brainstorm really starts to become poor...however, Brainstorm allows me to actually get Finkle/Bob/SoFI onto the board...and if I have one on the board (that is staying) then I'm probably already winning anyway. So top is winmore? Sounds wierd to say, but I guess that's what I'm saying.

All of that being said, top should probably be in the list somewhere, and if it was 2-colors it seems like a no-brainer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingdude

Also, your sideboard definitely left you vulnerable against dredge.

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Oh, no doubt. I new 1 crypt, 1 Prison, and 1 Plague wasn't going to get me there against dredge - especially since Prison and Plague were easilly answerable by Woodfall Primus or Angel of Despair. My thinking was that I could bounce Batterskull to get rid of crypts and I might be able to pull off a win if I could land T1 discard or misstep against early discard outlets....I was wrong...lol...and Ancient grudge was simply a beating.

---------------

By the way, my recent list and match report is in the Esperblade thread (in the established deck section).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

thanks so much for taking the time and energy to explain the cards to me guys, I really appreciate it. Bokwinkle, I'll be awaiting your next post about the board cards then :)

EDIT: I didn't manage to face any dredge this time round, I figured Ghostly Prison and Engineered Plague naming Spirit or Horror can hurt them quite a bit.
I am now considering Chains of Mephistopheles as an answer to card draw, but it seems rather cheesy.

Also, if its not too much trouble, hope the experienced dudes can let me know how you would change my deck around with some reasoning if possible, as I would likely be trying for the same tournament again next month with this deck (its a monthly-to-bimonthly series, with appropriate breaks during holiday months).

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IMO Engineered Plague is useless. There are just better options. Deadguy has a positive matchup against Fish, Ghostly Prison does a similar job (if not better) against Goblins and Zombie tokens, etc. In that spot I would recommend Perish. Trust me, in this green-heavy format you'll love it, especially against an overextending Zoo player. 3-1 against them is game.