[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

Played tonight against Maverick and NO Maverick. Won 2-1 against the first, 4-1 against the second.

UW Blade control may be a harder MU. I never played against it but I played twice against Patriot during tournament and I won both matches. I guess it's important to draw the Pyroblasts and Reb to win against UW control, since all you want to do is stick a Lavamancer and counter Jace, Vision and Spellstutter.

Against TA you should not have lots of problems if you play 4 Submerge in sb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

Playing Torpor Orbs in the board helps out a lot with stoneblade

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Seems a very narrow choice. You don't want additional solutions against Stoneblade considering that you are already playing 4 Lavamancers 4 Fire/Ice 4 Stifle and 1 Bolt in side (the last one is optional though).

Ever since the spoiling of Snapcaster Mage I wanted to find a deck that completely utilized his true power. Everyone keeps talking about UW stoneforge deck, and to be honest, that doesn't sound that bad. However, I keep coming back to the idea that maybe swords to plowshare isn't the best spell to be flashing back with the snapcaster mage.

Other options:

Thoughtseize
Stifle
Dismember

Stifle really sparked the idea for Snapcaster mage in a stiflenought shell. Now you can be super aggressive with you early game stifles to hinder the opponents mana base and still have plenty of action for a dreadnought a few turns later.

Anyway, this is a first draft of a new UB stilenought deck

Creatures (14)
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Bob
3 Vendillion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage

Instants (22)
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
3 Dismember

Discard (4)
4 Thoughtseize

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
5 Islands

Sideboard:
TBD

Average CC ~ 1 mana

Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions ???

I've always been a fan of running red in the board for REB. Seems good with Snapcaster as well :)

-Matt

I plan on running this deck again since Turbo-'Nought is about the best way to win against any creature deck, now that Misstep isn't there to ruin my fun. I'll be running something similar to what I last posted.

You should repost your list.

I plan to run something greasy, most likely in Grixis colours now that Merfolk has Dismember against Peacekeeper.

I'm tihnking something like:

4 Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Top
3 Spell Snare
1 Daze
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Lightning Bolt

+21 lands

BOARD

3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction/Extirpate
2 Llawan
2 Firespout
2 Jace
3 REB/Perish/Other

Thoughts? It's basically tempo, tempo, tempo. No CB since I don't feel it'll be too great at the moment, and not many Dazes since I feel Snare is still relevant for Goyf, Bob, and SFM (not to mention Stingscourger).

-Matt

Matt, you run them SFM over with that Dreadnought ^_^ Goyf and Bobs are issue though lol. I would personally swap ghastly Demise for GFTT. I played Demise extensively in Dreadstalker and it worked well, but that's because you can get a ton of stuff in your yard much faster than Dreadstill (Vision Charm helps). You can also consider Terminate if you strain your manabase a little. I favor the Italian lists a few pages back (build with Lavamancer + Bob + Dreadnought and no STandstill/Countertop)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

You should repost your list.

I plan to run something greasy, most likely in Grixis colours now that Merfolk has Dismember against Peacekeeper.

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Sure. My last was UBW so I'm starting there but if enough decks are running Dismember that were previously hosed by Peacekeeper then I'll probably drop white.

Dreadstill:60

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Island
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

SB: 15
Perish, Peacekeeper, Spell Pierce, Disenchant, Crypt/Relic, etc.

It's pretty rough and I might want fit a few Standstill in. And maybe a singleton Crucible MD too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

You should repost your list.

I plan to run something greasy, most likely in Grixis colours now that Merfolk has Dismember against Peacekeeper.

I'm tihnking something like:

4 Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Top
3 Spell Snare
1 Daze
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Lightning Bolt

+21 lands

BOARD

3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction/Extirpate
2 Llawan
2 Firespout
2 Jace
3 REB/Perish/Other

Thoughts? It's basically tempo, tempo, tempo. No CB since I don't feel it'll be too great at the moment, and not many Dazes since I feel Snare is still relevant for Goyf, Bob, and SFM (not to mention Stingscourger).

-Matt

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Matt, me and you are totally on the same page!! I'm working on a mana base now with my team. Seas, Volcanics, is badlands needed? I also require basics at least 1 of each in any mana base. :smile:

Each list not playing 4 Fire//Ice in the maindeck is doing it incredibly wrong.It's easily one of the best spells in any tempo shell, so versatile that almost wins games alone. It's one of the best spell you do want to see in your opening seven, second only to Brainstorm and Grim.

You're playing 4 Wasteland, 4 Stifle, 3-4 Daze, and no Fire//Ice ? push the tempo factor further and do yourself a favour playing this sweet card.

For reference, here's what I'm running post ban:

Creatures [9]
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Trinket Mage
4 Grim Lavamancer

Instants [24]
4 Fire // Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
2 Repeal (these might be 2 Magus of the moon or Clique#2 and mono Repeal.)

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Brown [3]
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [21]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mountain
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

I think snapcaster mage is a perfect card for this deck. And since combo and control will be tough to play against, I would go for a black splash with thoughtseize/duress. Snapping back a discard spell is more attractive than vendilion clique. I think that makes up for the much weaker body. However, it is the dreadnought that should be used to win right? Unfortunately Snapcaster Mage is not that good with fire/ice.

What do you think about

21 Land

creatures
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage

Utility
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace
1 SD.top

Disruption
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
4 FoW
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Engineered Explosives


Thoughts?

I think duress would b great, I'm unsure how to fit it. If were adding black I think we must add Bob .
What is your mana base?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catmint

I think snapcaster mage is a perfect card for this deck. And since combo and control will be tough to play against, I would go for a black splash with thoughtseize/duress. Snapping back a discard spell is more attractive than vendilion clique. I think that makes up for the much weaker body. However, it is the dreadnought that should be used to win right? Unfortunately Snapcaster Mage is not that good with fire/ice.

What do you think about

21 Land

creatures
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage

Utility
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace
1 SD.top

Disruption
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
4 FoW
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Engineered Explosives


Thoughts?

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Misstep getting banned was the best thing that's happened to this deck since Dreadnought got errated... Just throwin that out there. I'm glad so many people are running Grim Lavamancers now. I've switched over to them as well and all I can say is they're a complete house against pretty much everything you don't want to see (SFM, Bob, etc). Grixis all day, I'll post my list when I've finalized it a bit more. Also I tested Dismembers in this deck and they were really, really strong for me.

My manabase so far is:

3 Sea
3 Volc
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

@ Kiblast

Totally forgot about Fire/Ice. Hm. I'll have to put it in there somewhere.

-MAtt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

My manabase so far is:

3 Sea
3 Volc
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

@ Kiblast

Totally forgot about Fire/Ice. Hm. I'll have to put it in there somewhere.

-MAtt

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That mana base seems good, i love the basics. I'm doing some testing tomorrow:smile:

I really like smother vs ghastly demise since we are using grim.

the main thing i need to decide is 4 naughts vs trinket mages and tool box.:cry:

I used to play 2 Mages in the main and 4 Noughts so I could have a nice sideboard, but atm, I'm figuring "Fuck it."

I'm also not a fan of Badlands here; even though our secondary and tertiary colour ratios are near equal, we NEED blue very badly, so I wouldn't run the 2º/3º dual at this point.


-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiblast

Each list not playing 4 Fire//Ice in the maindeck is doing it incredibly wrong.It's easily one of the best spells in any tempo shell, so versatile that almost wins games alone. It's one of the best spell you do want to see in your opening seven, second only to Brainstorm and Grim.

You're playing 4 Wasteland, 4 Stifle, 3-4 Daze, and no Fire//Ice ? push the tempo factor further and do yourself a favour playing this sweet card.

For reference, here's what I'm running post ban:

Creatures [9]
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Trinket Mage
4 Grim Lavamancer

Instants [24]
4 Fire // Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
2 Repeal (these might be 2 Magus of the moon or Clique#2 and mono Repeal.)

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Brown [3]
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [21]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mountain
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

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This list looks sweet, but running 21 lands, of which 4 are wastelands, dazes and 3 Jaces seems kind of sketchy.. have you tried splashing B for sb hand disruption and maindeck Bob?

I play almost the same list as kiblast altho I run +1 island +3 CB +1 top -3 daze -2 repeal.

I dont see any need to weaken the manabase with a black splash. I think in the european meta CB is needed since combo wil come out very very strong.

Also with CB I managed to control the board better by bouncing the goyfs back and then countering them with the CB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

I play almost the same list as kiblast altho I run +1 island +3 CB +1 top -3 daze -2 repeal.

I dont see any need to weaken the manabase with a black splash. I think in the european meta CB is needed since combo wil come out very very strong.

Also with CB I managed to control the board better by bouncing the goyfs back and then countering them with the CB.

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Actually NL meta is much more combo-ish than rest of Europe ones, for example here Maverick and Merfolk are the 2 most played decks, so Repeals and Spell Snare are better.

Regarding the black splash, I've tried it in the past and liked it. But it's really Bob-depending from what I remember. URg is more flexible and not depending on any single card.

@Jace vs 21 lands. Never had any problems. Between Brainstorm, Top, F/I, I always menage to dig for enough lands. I flooded too much with 22.

Heading out for my first go round with this, expect fish, junk, entrantress, team america and hopefully goblins.

4 Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Top
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Smother
3 Lightning Bolt

3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

Kingsey, how did it go?

hey Roodmistah what is your current decklist for this deck?

Anyone still testing? I haven't gotten much testing in with school being busy, but I think Snapcaster might be an alright addition. I was testing him instead of Smother (just because I didn't want to take anything else out) and he was pretty decent. Flashing back Bolts, Stifles, Trickbind, Fire/Ice, etc. were all really good.

-Matt

I'm still testing, I really miss my collar for grim lavamancer. I havnt tested snapcaster mage yet.

I'm going to be testing CB thopters cause moat seems to be amazing in this meta vs aggro and CB should house combo. Unsure if my love for stifle/wasteland/dreadnaught will outweight it.

I saw 2-3 UBr lists yesterday (41 player GPT Amsterdam) with some playing Snapcasters, all placed close to top8 or top8'd. Hopo might be posting his list here, he placed 3rd or 4th.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsck

I saw 2-3 UBr lists yesterday (41 player GPT Amsterdam) with some playing Snapcasters, all placed close to top8 or top8'd. Hopo might be posting his list here, he placed 3rd or 4th.

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My list was more of a URb, and it wasn't actually Dreadstill as it was lacking Standstill and countertop so I'm not going to spam this thread with it. I didn't play Snapcasters, but that was only due to availability issues.

As already predicted and noted, Stifle + Dreadnought really benefits both from the recent banning and the direction the metagame is heading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hopo

My list was more of a URb, and it wasn't actually Dreadstill as it was lacking Standstill and countertop so I'm not going to spam this thread with it. I didn't play Snapcasters, but that was only due to availability issues.

As already predicted and noted, Stifle + Dreadnought really benefits both from the recent banning and the direction the metagame is heading.

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Don't worry about the ' name ' post up the stiflenaught list broseph.

I'd be interested in seeing it, no matter the name.

I noticed the Painter deck at the recent 5K was playing 4 Blasts main. I know they're playing Painter, but has anyone ever tried Blasts in the main as more hardcounters to Force through a Dreadnought? Just curious. I'm not saying it is great in this deck (which it very well might not be), but we're bringing them in out of the board in every blue match anyway...

Snapcaster seems really interesting here. I love Dark Confidant and all, don't get me wrong, but Snapcaster seems really decent.

-Matt

I play dreadstill on a regular basis. Now that mental misstep is no longer in the format, I have some questions.

1) Is counterbalance necessary?
2) What is the best color splash? I understand what the different colors give you, I'm just not sure which is right for the current meta.
3) what the cuss is Roodmistah's current list?

I used to play Rich Shays UBW list. Is that still the best version?

Rich Shay's version is still fine, I'm sure, but Peacekeeper isn't as good when Folk runs Dismember in the main.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dethangel666

hey Roodmistah what is your current decklist for this deck?

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At this point

// Lands
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [MPR] Wasteland
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
6 [IN] Island (2)
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [U] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets (Totally reasonable to sub Grim too)
4 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [JGC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [DD2] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Dismember
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 4 [CS] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth

I'll be running something very close to that.

Also noteworthy, Jace is perfectly fine too I just don't know what to cut to add him in.

-1 Nought -1 Trickbind +2 Jace?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

At this point

// Lands
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [MPR] Wasteland
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
6 [IN] Island (2)
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [U] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets (Totally reasonable to sub Grim too)
4 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [JGC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [DD2] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Dismember
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 4 [CS] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth

I'll be running something very close to that.

Also noteworthy, Jace is perfectly fine too I just don't know what to cut to add him in.

-1 Nought -1 Trickbind +2 Jace?

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Why spell snare maindeck over spell pierce ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mordraid

Why spell snare maindeck over spell pierce ?

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- It hits SFM, Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, and Pridemage.

Roodmistah, are you ok with only 23 cards capable of flipping Delver? I think the correct number should be at least 26-27, and this deck doesn't even play Ponder...

Right now, I'm trying:

4 Dreadnought
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Dark Confidant
1 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Top
1 Trickbind
2 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
1 Unearth
2 Dismember/Smother/Removal

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

Thoughts?

-Matt

@Matt: I'm not a fan of Trinket Mage anymore. At least not in this deck. He is too many intensive. I find I'm much happier with Clique instead.

And I'm still on white. Newest, slightly changed list.


4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Riptide Laboratory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Right now, I'm trying:

4 Dreadnought
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Dark Confidant
1 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Top
1 Trickbind
2 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
1 Unearth
2 Dismember/Smother/Removal

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

Thoughts?

-Matt

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Why the weird numbers? And why tops without Counterbalance or Standstill? Trinket Mage without any gamebreaking targets?
You should go with more 4-of's for consistencys sake. The obvious ones being Dark Confidant, Wasteland and Spell Snare. Also, it appears to be that Snapcaster Mage is uncastable before turn 3 so you don't want to play too many of those.
I also think that it is a mistake to not play Fire/Ice and that you have no reliable ways to keep dreadnought alive long enough to win. It is one of the more fragile creatures out there.

Here is the list that I am probably going to tun this weekend. Any suggestions?

4 dreadnought
4 bob
3 snapcaster
2 vendillion clique

4 storm
4 force
4 stifle
3 swords
3 counterbalance
3 top
2 spell snare
2 spell pierce*
1 trickbind*
1 dismember

1 ribtide laboratory*
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 underground sea
3 tundra
4 wasteland
3 island

You still need Tops to dig, with or without Counterbalance, but I see your point about having Counterbalance to keep Nought alive.

Also, has anyone really being trying Standstill again besides Roodmistah? I'm thinking the time isn't right to truly bring it back, but we'll see.

-Matt

So now Grim Lavamancers are not good enough in a meta composed by:

Blade Control (43 Tops)
RUG (39 Tops)
Maverick (38 Tops)
Merfolk (31 Tops)

(Source: TCDECKS.com., september Tops.) I recognize that those tops were largely pre-Misstep Ban. But Stoneforge will still be played, RUG is obviously going to survive anyway (probably even stronger than before with nothing countering its Hierarchs and GSZ@0 on the play), Maverick is strong and uber played in Europe, and Merfolk, well, has been there for years now. Pre-Misstep and Post-Misstep.

I honestly don't get all this hype for Snapcaster in place of Grim. It may be a decision based on the rest of your build, but in a vacuum, just by reading Top8's, I'd say Grim is way more important.
Confidant itself produces more card advantage and quality than Snapcaster. Before the ban of Misstep I would never have played Confidant as he doesn't fit well in a control shell with Jace and singleton Nought as finishers, but now with 4 Noughts he's a must. The only advantage I see in Snapcaster is that 1) I like his name 2) pitches to fow.

My current creature list is:

4 Noughts ( with Misstep banned there's no reason for playing those controllish mono Nought versions.)
3 Dark Confidant ( since the list is switching to the fast Nought plan I need to draw.A lot. The older (misstep era) control versions with singleton Nought should not use Bob since you are not going to have a fast win con before Bob kills you.)
3 Delver of Secrets ( seriously guys this critter keeps the race alone. Delver and Grim in conjunction let you concentrate all your resources - Fow, Daze, Stifle, etc..- focusing on the ''fishy'' aspect of the race, instead of committing to the Nought Plan. Amazing.)
3 Grim Lavamancer ( you must be crazy not to run him now.)
1 Clique (Just because a well timed Clique wins games sometimes, and because it's a golden tool against Storm Combo. I like the fact that post sb I bring the second against certain decks- like Bug still or TES/ANT.)

Kiblast, I'm curious to see your spells with this creature package. I would assume it's very close to Roodmistah's. Is that correct?