All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by phonics

Well looking at a generalized metagame, it seems like it is currently skewing towards control/ aggro while combo is becoming less represented. In the archetypal rock paper scissors of the format, combo is supposed to be favorable against aggro, but since aggro has become extinct in lieu of aggro control (delver/ cantrip shell variants), combo doesn't have the favorable match ups it once had, couldn't this be the reason why miracles is where it is? It isn't just Miracles that is strong, other control decks as well like lands and some loam variants have been shown to be good in this meta as well.

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Its much easier. Aggro-control is no dog to combo like aggro decks a la Zoo, Burn, Goblins, etc and with the printing of Tarmogoyf and then Delver/SFM/TNN, there was no more reason to sleeve crap like Wild Nacatl which does shit against combo and loses against Batterskull and TNN anyways. Combo has a fair and even matchup against aggro-control, but Miracles can beat them all. Thats the problem. Miracles has no significant weakness against aggro OR combo, but only against some fringe and expensive decks

Miracles is barely playable at my store.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Miracles is barely playable at my store.

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Because of?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

When people talk about Miracles only dominating "just now" they neglect that it's been the top dog in Europe for way longer than in the US. We've been suffering for a lot more; can you please send help?

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miracles cant be that big of a problem, because if it was people would start playing more decks that beat miracles. That doesnt seem to be the case because people still complain about it. Miracles is a necessary evil that keeps the format in check. Additionally, the power of miracles is limited by the skill of the person playing it more so than most other decks. This is actually something that i wish more decks had, better performance for better play skills.

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Originally Posted by apple713

miracles cant be that big of a problem, because if it was people would start playing more decks that beat miracles.

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Like what? Mentor and spells > Goblins, 12 Post, whatever other deck you're going to throw out. Before Mentor was abortioned into the world, Goblins was like 75-80 to win. Now with everyone playing Moat it's like a 50/50 match.

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Originally Posted by Tantarus

Because of?

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I assume it looks like one of the stores around here: multiple Chalice decks, a few powerful oddballs like Lands and Enchantress, and enough floaters that people who want to play Miracles can't afford to skimp on Counterbalance or maindeck hate.

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Originally Posted by Tantarus

Because of?

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Chalice, fast moons, 3 ball, enchantress.

The question isn't whether Miracles' dominant or not. The question is what would Legacy become if Miracles got the axe. Would Legacy be better off without Miracles?

It's entirely possible for Legacy to take a worse turn as a result of a banning. Why would WotC risk that?

See you guys in 2 months.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

The question isn't whether Miracles' dominant or not. The question is what would Legacy become if Miracles got the axe. Would Legacy be better off without Miracles?

It's entirely possible for Legacy to take a worse turn as a result of a banning. Why would WotC risk that?

See you guys in 2 months.

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Yeah, what a hell it must be to see other creatures than Delver/DRS/Mentor/ShardlessAgent playable in the format

Don't forget Grizzlebees, Emmy and Mum.

Interesting thought, what other creatures see play in more than one deck?

Imperial Recruiter, Tarmogoyf, Baleful Strix, V Clique, True-Name, it's not that long of a list.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Don't forget Grizzlebees, Emmy

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I have troubles seeing those as creatures in terms of "creature combat as a form to win the game". Its not that combat math or blocking is any factor

Well... A couple of weeks ago I did manage to steal a game b/c a couple of brave Narcomoebas and their friend Stinkweed Imp spent a couple of turns blocking a Merit Lage token while Ichorids and zombie tokens led the charge. That's combat. Sort of.

Moral of the story: The Narcomoeba is mightier than the Merit Lage.

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Originally Posted by iatee

I don't think Joe Lossett would have the fanbase he has right now if he were piloting Eldrazi or Belcher.

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Joe is an exceptional Magic player, period, but this is a relevant historical note:
http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/reb...y-charbelcher/

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Originally Posted by ESG

Joe is an exceptional Magic player

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Yes, he is.

But so is Tom Ross - and I don't see Infect dominating the format.

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Originally Posted by ESG

Joe is an exceptional Magic player, period, but this is a relevant historical note:
http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/reb...y-charbelcher/

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My argument was that he became one of the most popular magic streamers because viewers find skilled players playing complex decks to be interesting to watch, not "The man dedicates his life to complex magic decks and has no interest in anything else." I mean, he plays Tron in Modern!

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Yeah, what a hell it must be to see other creatures than Delver/DRS/Mentor/ShardlessAgent playable in the format

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They're already playable. In fact, with Miracles gone you can expect at least the 2nd, 3th, and 4th ones to become less playable as the format slowly transitions to fast combo.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

They're already playable. In fact, with Miracles gone you can expect at least the 2nd, 3th, and 4th ones to become less playable as the format slowly transitions to fast combo.

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Bull. Miracles doesn't have the breft of answers that a deck like Delver does against combo. It's not holding down Storm, Beltcher or Oops. I would rather see Miracles on the other side of the table than Grixis Delver if I am playing ANT.

Miracles gone fast combo does what? Takes over the format suddenly while the community suddenly agrees in unison that Force, Daze and Spell Pierce are not worth running anymore? I doubt it.

In unrelated news, Counterspells are still a thing in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

They're already playable. In fact, with Miracles gone you can expect at least the 2nd, 3th, and 4th ones to become less playable as the format slowly transitions to fast combo.

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There are zero indicator of this being close to realistic. You sound like anyone had suggested to ban Daze, FoW, Spell Pierce, etc.. Its not that Belcher was rampant before Miracles was a thing.

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Ninja'd by Dice

Edit2:
Gentlemen's Agreement to no longer play Counter, or what?

So Delver and Delver alone is now the hero that saves us from the unwashed combo barbarians? I thought we wanted format diversity?