[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

I completely agree with 1rakete. The new Jace is exactly what this deck needs. Jace is much better than Fact or Fiction.

I also think the deck gains more from the W Splash than it loses. It makes Swords and Engineered Explosives playable and the Fetchlands make Brainstorm playable. Stifle is not so big in the Meta anymore that I would see any reason except for Budget to not play both Swords to Plowshares and Neo Jace.

With a W-Splash (8 Fecthes + 1-2 Tunrda) and a couple of new Jaces the deck is certainly no more budget, but I think it is clearly the best version.

Quote:

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Jace is much better than Fact or Fiction.

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If you are able to reliably protect the new Jace, I absolutely agree with you. But because of "if..." I would'nt want to rely on it as my only source of real CA, so splitting between Jace and FoF seems the way to go. 2/3 might work in a rough list like that:

// Mana

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
1 Plains
12 Island

// Kill

1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle

// Countermagic

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Spell Snare

// Removal

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Vedalken Shackles

// Draw

4 Brainstorm
3 Fact or Fiction
2 Sensei's Divining Top (currently trying, quite solid so far)

// Utility, Multifunctional

2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Cryptic Command (with EE@2 max you really need an out to CC3+ and random stuff like Iona, opp's Planeswalkers etc.)
1 Decree of Justice

+1 flex slot depending on playstyle (another basic land?).

Problem might be that CC4 is heavily used (my first try would be to replace C. Command with other bounce [Repeal?], but I'd miss the extra hard counters...) or cutting FoF completely (or down to 2), but you probably have to find another source of real CA that is immune to direct damage / too many creatures.

Fun fact -4 Islands +4 Mishra's Factory and you're actually just Landstill without Standstill.

Here's my list

3 Trinket Mage
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Fact or Fiction

3 Counterbalance

3 Vedalken Shackles
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Aether Spellbomb

1 Academy Ruins
4 Wasteland
18 Island

SB

2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Propaganda
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 HydroBlast
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away

there is a new card on the visual spolier that could be good for the deck

surrakar spellblade

creature-surrakar
whenever you cast a instant or sorcery spell you may put a counter on surrakar spellblade
whenever surrakar spellblade deals combat damage to a player draw x cards where x is the number of charge counters

I don't think it will be played.

It's just another one of these CMC 3 beaters (Phid, Augury Adept) that draw gets when they connect with the exception of making multiple draws per hit happen. Nothing special if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Gunseng

I remain unconvinced that Calcite Snapper adds to the deck, but I will playtest him as soon as I got the time. Personally I like to run 2 Chalice MD which help alot against Zoo, ANT and Treshhold. Personally I consider 3 Shackles, Chalice, 3 Keg and 4 Propaganda after boarding enough against Zoo, but it really depends on countering Pridemage. Grip is a pain in this matchup. Against Combo I'd rather board in Clique instead of Calcite Snapper, because I can play it at eot and disrupt their hand.

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For builds running any number of Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Calcite Snapper is better than Propaganda. For those builds not running Planeswalkers, I suppose it'd make more sense to keep Propaganda in for your mid-game stall/defense, although it's arguable that Enchantments are getting easier to remove than Shroud Creatures nowadays.

I X-1ed vestal with MUC. My list is posted earlier in this thread. I made a play mistake to lose in the top8. I should have mainphased a fact or fiction and instead i tried to out aggro a mana screwed pro bant player while i flooded out. (kept a 3 land hand, drew 7 straight). If i had facted i would have seen 4 lands and cryptic. Next card down was shackles. Shackles> probant. (as long as teeg is in play)

I tested Jace, its lower impact than fact or fiction. The its only real relevance is the diversity of its abilities. IE: 2UU suspend 6 win the game. 2UU unsummon 3 times. or become phyrexian arena. Rarely in testing did the right usage change based on board state. Without synergies such as fetches or counterbalances it is just strong not amazing. Also note I play 4 keg 4 clique 4 shackles. I deal with permanents fairly effectively already.


Edit- snapper is the same CC as Vendy Clique. The two are in different leagues. Play clique x4 if that isnt enough, play moat.

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Originally Posted by Rancorous Fool

I X-1ed vestal with MUC. My list is posted earlier in this thread. I made a play mistake to lose in the top8. I should have mainphased a fact or fiction and instead i tried to out aggro a mana screwed pro bant player while i flooded out. (kept a 3 land hand, drew 7 straight). If i had facted i would have seen 4 lands and cryptic. Next card down was shackles. Shackles> probant. (as long as teeg is in play)

I tested Jace, its lower impact than fact or fiction. The its only real relevance is the diversity of its abilities. IE: 2UU suspend 6 win the game. 2UU unsummon 3 times. or become phyrexian arena. Rarely in testing did the right usage change based on board state. Without synergies such as fetches or counterbalances it is just strong not amazing. Also note I play 4 keg 4 clique 4 shackles. I deal with permanents fairly effectively already.


Edit- snapper is the same CC as Vendy Clique. The two are in different leagues. Play clique x4 if that isnt enough, play moat.

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But your final build doesn't run Jace, right? I mean, Clique is awesome when not running Jace, but we're looking for semi-permanent ways to protect Jace until you're able to draw into Shackles, get the Keg up to the appropriate counters, etc all while Jace is slowly Fatesealing the opponent out of the game.

My list is much further back than expected, for reference:

The Ex- Girlfriend
4 ancestral vision
4 spell snare
4 counterspell
4 powder keg
4 shackles
4 vendy clique
4 cryptic
4 fact or fiction
4 force of will
1 guile
20 island
3 factory

B2B wasn't good enough, its in the board. same with Propaganda.

When playing this deck you are struggling for control of the game. Tempo matters, almost nothing else. You will win every topdeck war and every long game. Jace did not do a lot to control the board it only creates inevitability. Don't get me wrong I play the heck out of the card in other decks. but, its not good enough without having some synergy with the rest of the deck's strategy. The only play I miss is unsummoning my own clique and or factory to give it vigilance.

4x vision 4x fact or fiction. Never complain about missing anything. Win every control match.

Interesting list. Personally, I'd never run less than 4 B2B mainboard, but that's just me I suppose. Also, how did you find Cryptic Command as a 4-of?

Excluding turn 1 and 2. i cannot think of a time i do not want a cryptic command. It might as well be krosan grip versus counterbalance. Counter bounce is tremendous against any zoo style deck. Fog + cantrip twice can often be enough to race progenitus.

Gravitational Shift

Rare

3UU

Enchantment

Creatures with flying get +2/+0.

Creatures without flying get -2/-0.

Hey a blue Moat !! XD

Should one play Man Lands in this deck these days?

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Originally Posted by Pernacious_D

Should one play Man Lands in this deck these days?

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No. They can't protect themselves

hi guys. I play MUC since since 2004 in Italy. just muc (and recently also faeris stompy).
I tried heaps of version of the deck. E.G.[Mono U, with white splash (just for StP main deck with both ptopaganda & B2B), with chalice of the void...]

The best version of the deck is the MONO U permament-MUC to my view. defenetly! because white splash helps only for the match-up we are already good aginst.
- Calice-muc is week because it's too slow in the first turns... and cc1 drops are less problem than cc2 drops.
- countertop muc just sucks, believe me. (I can explain all the reasons if someone would like)

there's a card that some players do not use but she is the only reason to play muc now-a-days in a competitive way: BACK TO BASICS.

MUC is not superior to anyone deck played around in this times. I mean I cannot say: "yeah, I beat zoo. no problem" because control decks can lose to anyone.
We make the difference thanks to the personal game-plan & skill, being able to be play in a different way according to the opponent's deck.

All my muc decks always had this Layout (I would advice)

@ 22-23-24 mana sources (depends on the drawing engine)

@ 7-8 drawers or manipulating cards

@ 11-12 counters

@ 3 winning conditions

@ 14-16 board control cards

@ 0-3 bouncers (personally I consider only cryptic command & jace. all the other bouncers are useless because they don't give advantage in at least 2 turns time or card-advantage)

- let's consider the counterspells area:

4 FoW + 4 Counterspell + 3/4 spell snare are the wright choice (daze sucks, force spike is no longer strong, mana leak no sense because we have counterspell)

# MANA AREA: no-non basic lands. If you want to play brainstorm (BS), then play 5/6 fetches. but I usually like just islands because I don't fell need of BS and because sometimes when we win, we are very low of life points (e.g vs zoo).
no wasteland. no reason. we cannot lose a land drop and we have Back to basics for opponent's lands.

# DRAWERS:

the choice depends on if you feel need to manipulate or just card advantage (BS, ponder, impulse don't give card advantage. sensei's top gives dis-advantage).
For sure every muc needs 3-4 FACT OR FICTION because it's a bomb. no matter if you would draw 2 cards only sometimes because you have digged for 5!
the possible choice are to my view 2 and they depends on the metagame:
a) 3 impulse + 4 Fact of fiction (FoF)
b) 4 ancestral vision (AV) + 4 Fact of fiction (might be 3 if you play also 3 cryptic command)
I personally prefere (a) a lot. Because impulse + FoF digs deeply in your deck. really deep.
(b) is terribly slow even if it provides heaps of cards in you hand (but topdecking AV in mid-late game sucks quite a lot)
I would advice AV + FoF If you expect lots of black based decks running hymn to tourach, duress... but they are not a lot nowadays.

# BOARD CONTROL:

3-4 Back to basics (I suggest 4 because it's a winning card, no metter if one is useless in your hand because it makes you win)
4 powder keg _ only way to destroy things of this deck. defenetly 4.
3-4 vedalken shackles
0 or 4 Propaganda.
and here discussions begin. Most of players who have few experience of the deck usually say it's useless. I never played without 4 (no reson to run 3). the reasons are the following:
- this card is extremely sinergic with B2B.
- B2B + Propaganda is winning conditions for heaps of match ups (zoo, goblin, threshold, ichorid, faeries, elves, belcher, loam, eva green, Landstill... should I go on ?!)
how many basic lands tier decks run? very very few. no one expect B2B nowadays. a really good play is turn 3 propaganda, turn 4 B2B = lock for at least 2 turns. in those turns we can find a second propaganda or a vedalken shackles.
I think It is perfect for nowadays turnaments-breakdown.

# WINNING CONDITIONS:

chose the one you prefere. but they need to satisfy the following points:
- they can protect themselves
- they can be tempo-card (that is to say they also need to be able to protect you if you need)
they do not need to too be fast, we are control players.
I personally use:
2 Morphling
1 Rainbow Efreet
Yes, combat rules have changed, but I don't think something better has been printed.
do you think Sphinx of Jwar Isle is the new Morphling? Sphinx of Jwar Isle sucks because it doesn't untap and most of times can't face an attacking tarmo and it is as big as tombstalker. I played it in one turnament and I lost a game because of a tombstalker and a tarmo. Morphling would have face both. It sucks. stop. Yes, it doesn't require mana. But is that a problem?
I use rainbow efreet as second winning conditions because it doesn't die to anything. Especially it doesn't die to all the things that can kill Morphling (edict, innocent blood, pox, wrath of god, pericious deed...)
I think I won as much games thanks to Rainbow Efreet as for Morphling.
we are brain players because we play muc. don't need brainless winning conditions.

SIDEBOARD:
we need cards ONLY to face those decks we are in serious trouble against without sideboard cards. If we can't win neither with sideboard. don't use sideboard against those match and just hope not to find them.
personally I build my sideboard only against those decks (but no space for everyone, I decide which not according to what I expect in a turnament)
- enchantress
- ant
- merfolk
- progenitus-bant (beatable also only with the main, but they are so popular that something more can be interesting)
- survival
- burn
(remember that you can put in your side some creatures because opponents tend to side-out Sword to Plowshares in g2 if they are intelligent)

that's my deck:

23/24 island

2 morphling
1 rainbow efreet

3 impulse
4 fact or fiction

4 force of will
4 counterspell
3/4 spell snare

4 back to basics
4 propaganda
4 powder keg
3/4 vedalken shakles

sideboard:
3/4 chalice of the void (Vs ant: chalice @ ZERO + B2B = GAME)
3 hibernation (bant & progenitus)
0-3 aura flux
2/3 pithing needle
0-3 tormod's crypt/relic of progenitus
2/3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (merfolk & progenitus)
0-3 seasinger (bant sides out swords to plowshares for krosan grip, so they have no solutions for seasinger g2)

Obviously the 0-3 or 3/4 depends on the metageme expected...

I usually do not use some strong cards because I don't have room for them because my game-plan is based on permanent-locks.
If somebody doesn't want to play propaganda. I would advice:
- 4 propaganda - 1 B2B - 3 impulse - 1 FoF - 1 Rainbow efreet
+ 4 ancestral vision + 3 cryptic command + 3 vendillion clique
... something like that from my list.

I felt the need of this long reply because I see few people play this deck in a competitive way and this topic is loosing earnestness (come on, what's calcite snapper ???).
I love MUC and I would like more people playing it because the good metagame is coming back. I would like some feedback and exchange of ideas too. this deck is as old as magic, I don't want to see it becoming a grave.

(excuse me if something I wrote is difficult to undrestand, but It's quite a lot that I don't speek of write in English)

Maffe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by serendib

hi guys. I play MUC since since 2004 in Italy. just muc (and recently also faeris stompy).
I tried heaps of version of the deck. E.G.[Mono U, with white splash (just for StP main deck with both ptopaganda & B2B), with chalice of the void...]

The best version of the deck is the MONO U permament-MUC to my view. defenetly! because white splash helps only for the match-up we are already good aginst.
- Calice-muc is week because it's too slow in the first turns... and cc1 drops are less problem than cc2 drops.
- countertop muc just sucks, believe me. (I can explain all the reasons if someone would like)

there's a card that some players do not use but she is the only reason to play muc now-a-days in a competitive way: BACK TO BASICS.

MUC is not superior to anyone deck played around in this times. I mean I cannot say: "yeah, I beat zoo. no problem" because control decks can lose to anyone.
We make the difference thanks to the personal game-plan & skill, being able to be play in a different way according to the opponent's deck.

All my muc decks always had this Layout (I would advice)

@ 22-23-24 mana sources (depends on the drawing engine)

@ 7-8 drawers or manipulating cards

@ 11-12 counters

@ 3 winning conditions

@ 14-16 board control cards

@ 0-3 bouncers (personally I consider only cryptic command & jace. all the other bouncers are useless because they don't give advantage in at least 2 turns time or card-advantage)

- let's consider the counterspells area:

4 FoW + 4 Counterspell + 3/4 spell snare are the wright choice (daze sucks, force spike is no longer strong, mana leak no sense because we have counterspell)

# MANA AREA: no-non basic lands. If you want to play brainstorm (BS), then play 5/6 fetches. but I usually like just islands because I don't fell need of BS and because sometimes when we win, we are very low of life points (e.g vs zoo).
no wasteland. no reason. we cannot lose a land drop and we have Back to basics for opponent's lands.

# DRAWERS:

the choice depends on if you feel need to manipulate or just card advantage (BS, ponder, impulse don't give card advantage. sensei's top gives dis-advantage).
For sure every muc needs 3-4 FACT OR FICTION because it's a bomb. no matter if you would draw 2 cards only sometimes because you have digged for 5!
the possible choice are to my view 2 and they depends on the metagame:
a) 3 impulse + 4 Fact of fiction (FoF)
b) 4 ancestral vision (AV) + 4 Fact of fiction (might be 3 if you play also 3 cryptic command)
I personally prefere (a) a lot. Because impulse + FoF digs deeply in your deck. really deep.
(b) is terribly slow even if it provides heaps of cards in you hand (but topdecking AV in mid-late game sucks quite a lot)
I would advice AV + FoF If you expect lots of black based decks running hymn to tourach, duress... but they are not a lot nowadays.

# BOARD CONTROL:

3-4 Back to basics (I suggest 4 because it's a winning card, no metter if one is useless in your hand because it makes you win)
4 powder keg _ only way to destroy things of this deck. defenetly 4.
3-4 vedalken shackles
0 or 4 Propaganda.
and here discussions begin. Most of players who have few experience of the deck usually say it's useless. I never played without 4 (no reson to run 3). the reasons are the following:
- this card is extremely sinergic with B2B.
- B2B + Propaganda is winning conditions for heaps of match ups (zoo, goblin, threshold, ichorid, faeries, elves, belcher, loam, eva green, Landstill... should I go on ?!)
how many basic lands tier decks run? very very few. no one expect B2B nowadays. a really good play is turn 3 propaganda, turn 4 B2B = lock for at least 2 turns. in those turns we can find a second propaganda or a vedalken shackles.
I think It is perfect for nowadays turnaments-breakdown.

# WINNING CONDITIONS:

chose the one you prefere. but they need to satisfy the following points:
- they can protect themselves
- they can be tempo-card (that is to say they also need to be able to protect you if you need)
they do not need to too be fast, we are control players.
I personally use:
2 Morphling
1 Rainbow Efreet
Yes, combat rules have changed, but I don't think something better has been printed.
do you think Sphinx of Jwar Isle is the new Morphling? Sphinx of Jwar Isle sucks because it doesn't untap and most of times can't face an attacking tarmo and it is as big as tombstalker. I played it in one turnament and I lost a game because of a tombstalker and a tarmo. Morphling would have face both. It sucks. stop. Yes, it doesn't require mana. But is that a problem?
I use rainbow efreet as second winning conditions because it doesn't die to anything. Especially it doesn't die to all the things that can kill Morphling (edict, innocent blood, pox, wrath of god, pericious deed...)
I think I won as much games thanks to Rainbow Efreet as for Morphling.
we are brain players because we play muc. don't need brainless winning conditions.

SIDEBOARD:
we need cards ONLY to face those decks we are in serious trouble against without sideboard cards. If we can't win neither with sideboard. don't use sideboard against those match and just hope not to find them.
personally I build my sideboard only against those decks (but no space for everyone, I decide which not according to what I expect in a turnament)
- enchantress
- ant
- merfolk
- progenitus-bant (beatable also only with the main, but they are so popular that something more can be interesting)
- survival
- burn
(remember that you can put in your side some creatures because opponents tend to side-out Sword to Plowshares in g2 if they are intelligent)

that's my deck:

23/24 island

2 morphling
1 rainbow efreet

3 impulse
4 fact or fiction

4 force of will
4 counterspell
3/4 spell snare

4 back to basics
4 propaganda
4 powder keg
3/4 vedalken shakles

sideboard:
3/4 chalice of the void (Vs ant: chalice @ ZERO + B2B = GAME)
3 hibernation (bant & progenitus)
0-3 aura flux
2/3 pithing needle
0-3 tormod's crypt/relic of progenitus
2/3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (merfolk & progenitus)
0-3 seasinger (bant sides out swords to plowshares for krosan grip, so they have no solutions for seasinger g2)

Obviously the 0-3 or 3/4 depends on the metageme expected...

I usually do not use some strong cards because I don't have room for them because my game-plan is based on permanent-locks.
If somebody doesn't want to play propaganda. I would advice:
- 4 propaganda - 1 B2B - 3 impulse - 1 FoF - 1 Rainbow efreet
+ 4 ancestral vision + 3 cryptic command + 3 vendillion clique
... something like that from my list.

I felt the need of this long reply because I see few people play this deck in a competitive way and this topic is loosing earnestness (come on, what's calcite snapper ???).
I love MUC and I would like more people playing it because the good metagame is coming back. I would like some feedback and exchange of ideas too. this deck is as old as magic, I don't want to see it becoming a grave.

(excuse me if something I wrote is difficult to undrestand, but It's quite a lot that I don't speek of write in English)

Maffe

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Thanks alot for this post, It makes alot of things clear :). And the english is No Problem ofcourse! ;)

I do have some questions: How do you feel about Sower of Temptation in such a heavy Aggro meta these days? And I will start testing the deck again on MWS using the same list as you, more or less ;). I'll try to post my results here as often as possible!

~maarten

I don't like sower because there are too many remouvals around. it would die immediately. playing sower we would lose a card (her) and we would rend StP (swords to plwshares) useful for opponent. we don't want to make StP usefull against us.
let our opponent keep his remouvals in his hand :tongue:
I think that the solution to aggro is propaganda + vedalken + B2B. My gameplan against aggro is the following:
- vs goblin: counter and/or play powder keg the first 2 turns. Play Propaganda as soon as possible. we can look for it in t2 with impulse if we don't have the enchantment. them it get's easy. with vedalken on the field too we have won. because you have heaps of time to do whatever you want. you just need to pay attention to siegang.
DO NOT take out more then 1 B2B on game2. it is usefull against the splash. Play B2B when he taps the dual, so that he cannot do krosan grip if he plays green too. Other Important thing is NEVER let Rainbow Efreet put under the deck with impulse or discard it with FoF.
the reason is that he probabely plays the tribal-goblin diabolic edict (if you have blue elemental blast take 3 in for 2 spell snare and 1 B2B, otherwise pithing needle calling vial first and sieggang second. Or the creature first if he has lacchè on board)
(I'm undefeeted vs goblin in the turnament matchs I won the coin & started :tongue:)
- vs zoo it's easier because they have heaps of dual lands and our powder are like wrath of god against all his cc1 drop... and they don't draw as goblin does. much easier match.
- vs merfolk you need him to play a splash, so that you can lock him with prop-b2b. otherwise the problem is Lord of atlantis just because of islandwalk. a big problem not been able to block him. (+2 pithing needle calling vial+ 3 Llawan to win if you succeede in dropping both)

Permanent MUC is THE anti-aggro deck :cool:
the more they are fast, the esaier is to block them with propaganda.

How the hell does this deck fight merfolk decks? It seems like Islandwalk would utterly ruin us, and they have counters for Propaganda.

ok. merfolk problem is the islandwalk ability provided by their lord of atlantis because (for example if we have propaganda + shackles we can't block with one of their creature).

If you read what I wrote, you can see that I didn't say merfolk is easy. It is not. but without propaganda we lose most times. I bring 3 Llawan,cephalid empress in the sideboard. If Llawan come into play, they can play creatures only with vial. It's game most of times.

are you afraid on propaganda been countered? yes, merfolk runs force of will and daze!!! OH GOD... no deck runs force! Is that strange? MUC HAS 8 HARD COUNTERS + 4 snare who counter lord and standstill. just play around daze ... consider that no player espects propaganda maindeck. Maybe a merfolk player should be warried on our counters...

... Anyway, if you have both propaganda and shackles, you can take his biggest creature and attack him with islanwalk and go for the race. or take his creature he wants to attack you with in declaring of your blockers.
difficult, not impossible...