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And what about land's number ?
Some list run 20 lands, other 22-23. Actually, what's perfect or better choice ?
20 lands? They must be either lucky or stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal
Anything less than 22 and I feel like I'm missing too many land drops. This deck needs to hit its land drops. I personally say no less than 22.
22 Lands are ok if you run Ponder for fixing. I'm not even sure you can go down to 20 even if you use engines like Tithe or Land Tax to support your landdrops ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal
I've said this before, but 21 lands (1 Ponder) works just fine for me, just make sure to mulligan to hands that have a plan to make plays and make land drops. I don't feel that playing lands like Mystic gate which don't function by themselves is an improvement, and don't have enough need for Karakas to consider a second (I'm close to cutting the one I do have), and I try to avoid needing both UU and WW in the deck, especially in matchups where I will need to fetch basics.
I'm also still going to disagree about 4 counterbalances in the 75 as well - I usually want a more powerful targeted card out of the board, so I'd rather have Ethersworn Cannonists, Meddling Mages, etc than a 4th CB. From my experiences playing with / against combo, having mixed hate is significantly stronger and harder to deal with.
I prefer running more lands rather than less. To start, more lands does significantly reduce the amount of times I need to mulligan for land drops. Secondly, it's usually way more likely in a game to lose because of not enough mana compared to too much mana. Just consider the following situations where a card would be that extra land you put in, or just a spell. In a situation where you might be short on mana, that land is the difference between being able to play your spells or not playing your spells. It should go without saying, but this is basically the difference between getting to play Magic and not play Magic, a pretty huge difference. If you have too much mana, that extra land is just -1 card disadvantage, something that can be overcome by the rest of your cards. (Alternatively you use brainstorm and just shuffle this extra land away.) I always choose to play Magic.
So for me, I usually choose to run 23 lands mostly because of the situations outlined above. Since I have that many lands, I usually like to run my 23rd land as some extra utility type of land, even if it's colorless. For me lately that's been Kor Haven, since the extra time to deal with a creature can be randomly helpful and my 23rd land being colorless usually isn't a liability. Some other choices (you can decide how useful they may or may not be) could be Creeping Tar Pit (For black splash), Academy Ruins (with engineered explosives), Tithe (Not technically a land, but same idea for mana consistency), or possibly even a second Karakas (For that Clique shenanigans + other random bounce).
I personally play 24. I play 10 fetchlands instead of the Ponder people have been using. I generally love having access to it. (I play 5 Blue fetches, 4 Flooded Strand, and 1 Arid Mesa.)Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Part of the reason I asked about Canonist, is that I kind of like Rule of Law against Shardless BUG. If they ever suspend an Ancestral Visions early, getting a Rule of Law down can just win you the game. They cast their visions on upkeep, you counter it with your CB or another Counterspell, and you just win. It's also a bit better against tempo decks as it doesn't die to a Bolt, and you can really mess with their plays. They can never be pro-active, and a lot of our work is done purely by the Top and Jace, so we don't really need to cast too many spells in one turn. Unless it'd just be better to Curse of Exhaustion them, but four's quite late for doing anything other than a Jace, really.
Arcane Laboratory is the same thing except with awesome. Its a good card to have against combo, and then gets some splash damage by being good against shardless as well. Blood Moon costs the same though, and beats BUG most of the time its played.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
Well, Arcane Lab is better than Rule of Law most of the time, but RoL can't be hit by REBs that I do see in TES. Or ANT. Or whatever the hell it is that casts Tendrils to kill you and plays Red.
I think I'd like to play it so that I have an additional card against Shardless to go alongside my Blood Moon. Having Blood Moon + RoL means that if they ever get around to killing Blood Moon, they're still in a terrible position.
Also - in case anyone was interested - I traded for my Foil Chandra for this deck, and only then did I realise she cost double Red, so that's pretty lame.
Snuck in there at 32 at the ATL Legacy Open going 6-2-1:
I was torn on how to build a list for this event. I have been playing a much more orthodox RIP-Helm list, but I really felt like the Snapcaster lists showing in Europe had their own thing going for them and was torn between what I wanted to do. I ended up not making the choice and jammed the two styles together the morning of the event. Theoretically, it seems that the list should have game against nearly everything in the main, and be able to make minor tweaks for any matchup via the board.
//Creatures (2):
2 Vendilion Clique
//Spells (37):
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Counterbalance
2 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Energy Field
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Counterspell
//Lands (22):
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
//SB (15):
3 Pyroblast
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pyroclasm
1 Terminus
1 Meddling Mage
1 Wear // Tear
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Celestial Purge
Yes, the main is 61, but I've always felt that with so many ways to see cards and in a deck that has 4-5 cards it absolutely doesn't want to see in the opener the statistical differences are negligible. That said, 22 lands to the 61 is greedy and probably incorrect, but I didn't want to cut anything for a huge unknown meta. If you know what you're walking into it shouldn't be hard to figure out which cards to shave. For example, probably cut Flusterstorm for fair metas and EField for unfair.
This is a very general outline of the matches as I took no notes other than revealed hands, life totals, round number, opponent, and deck.
I can't recall the specific instances from the day, but Misdirection was amazing. I know I cast it at least 5 times and rarely did it just sit in my hand. It seemed correct to have the 2 MisD/2 FoW split while trying to run the enchantment package in reduced numbers, because each CB or RIP is that much more valuable. Bolt was also awesome, extra reach against PWs is really something that this deck needs at speeds better than ORing, and less prone to disruption. I did honestly wish I was running a Plateau throughout the day. Looking back, with only running only 1 hate bear in the board it should probably be canonist over meddling mage.
Obviously everything is untweaked, but the deck worked quite well for the most part.
I don't have SB notes, and I almost never SB exactly the same. It all depends on what I read as my opponent's playstyle. Just assume any good strategy you've used with similar configurations is applicable. Forces come out where they're bad, removal comes in where it's good, etc... I usually left the Misdirection's in though, so many creature decks, so many targets, and a lot of hand disruption. Even though I sided the snapcasters in a lot, I don't think I saw more than 1 the whole day, and that was in RD3 where I had no removal anyway.
RD1: (2-0) RUG
G1: I play Volcanic island and pass. He plays Misty, crack, I look disappointed that I don't have the stifle and allow it. He fetches Tropical island and while shuffling a card falls on the floor, he picks it up and puts it into his hand. Game Loss, move to game 2.
G2: Pretty sure he boards against RUG, this is bad for him. I also board against RUG, this is good for me. I play around daze and flusterstorm his stifle to build mana the first couple turns, play top and drop EE for 0 incase his delver flips. I sense his sadness when he realizes he's certainly not playing the mirror. I terminus a few creatures. Clique him eot and see flusterstorm, spell pierce, daze, ship Spell Pierce so I can safely cast CB when I untap. Cast CB, he dazes, I pay, he dazes, I pay, he flusterstorms, I tell him he actually doesn't. CB resolves and he scoops.
RD2: (2-0) Affinity
G1: Lots of swords, and Termini, and then I make 4 or 5 angels and murder him.
G2: I play conservative the first couple turns and keep spell pierce and counterspell mana up instead of casting top. My reservations are justified by his failed attempts at casting cranial plating into etched champion. Then there are lots of swords and bolts for his skirges and inkmoth? End of some turn, the Little Girl tokens creep out and are promptly picked back up.
RD3: (0-2) Elves
G1: I bolt a deathrite I believe, fetch like 5 times and top and never see a swords or terminus. He never goes all in and just swings for 2/3 each turn till I die.
G2: I brainstorm 3 times, top, and even clique myself to see more cards. I never see a swords, bolt, terminus, or pyroclasm. Again, I die to 2/3 damage a turn.
RD4: (0-2) Esper Control
G1: I answer a few sets of lingering souls tokens but have to lose my top with miracle fetch shenanegins in order to survive. Neither player has a hand, I draw Entreat and make lethal angels. He draws supreme verdict. I draw a blank. Then he draws jace and fateseals me; I find nothing and lose.
G2: He brainstorms a lot. I get Elspeth, he has a Tar Pit though and some souls. I end the game with a hand of 2 pyroblasts, lightning bolt, and a pyroclasm. 2 plains and 2 island in play, no fetchlands in the yard.
RD5: (1-1-1) Nic Fit
G1: He plays t1 bayou, DRS. I play mountain, bolt Doctor S...my mind starts thinking of the most macabre ways I could end my life as punishment for playing burn. I look back to my hand, and I find comfort staring at DiTerlizzi's muse...We proceed to have a very interactive game. I misdirect his hymm. He gets a sylvan library online. I slow his plays with clique, karakas and a lot of mana. All the while he's running Recurring Nightmare and Sun Titan. I cast 4 mana unsummon, clique it away, and eventually win.
G2: I get therapied a bit, Choked early and don't remember how I managed to live for so long, my lifepad shows me going from 20 to 1 very slowly.
G3: 5 min left in the round. We both play rapidly and theres a lot of back and forth early on. I get choked again. Time is called. I have 2 plains and a mountain, jace, sdt, and the top 3 cards are land, EtA, wear//tear when extra turns are up.
RD6: (2-0) Dark Bant?
G1: He gets a jitte in play and has 3 lands. T3 I make his manabase monochrome and he says it's probably not good that he plays zero basics. I respond with yes, and he tells me he has one out. I cast Helm with no RIP. Activate my hedron crab eot, hit blank, batterskull, qasali pridemage. I assume batterskull was his out and he laughingly says yes. I kill him with pridemage beats. Figuring that gauranteeing a beater (expecting Knight or Geist) and putting a real clock down was better than waiting to draw a RIP and give him turns to find his out.
G2: I terminus some things, put together CB-Top, misdirect Abrupt Decay to his freshly cast Knight. Angels.
RD7: (2-0) Elves
G1: I have all the removal, and then CB-Top. He mentions something about me having a strange sense of fun to which I agree.
G2: I murder a lot forest folk until the God Squad arrives for clean up.
RD8: (2-0) Jund
G1: Badlands, other bad lands, remove your hand from the game. I draw and play RIP off the top. Go to 14. Draw Helm with 4 lands. Play and pray. Go to 7. Untap with no Decay response.
G2: Hand disruption makes it difficult to set up Terminus. He has 4 lands in play, only 1 untapped. I have 3 lands, brainstorm eot, draw Blood Moon, 4th land, Terminus. Put back something and Terminus. Untap, draw and cast Terminus. Land, moon, go. We take turns drawing land after land, bolt him twice to not discard, play meddling mage, kill him slowly.
RD9: (2-0) Elves
G1: Assemble CB-Top with 1 Tundra up, no knowledge of top of library. He has 4 or 5 guys out and tries to cast a dude, I flip Top to gaurantee the counter and flip terminus, cast it to clear. He fetches arbor and natural order's for the Hoof. Attacks me down to 5, I tutor for an E field and sit behind it and CB-Top for many turns. Eventually he gets a GSZ for 1, and I have no answer for it, DRS. He has a bayou in play, and I have all my nonbasics expecting I can just use Blood Moon as BS fodder G1. I guess not; I cast it so he can't activate shaman, I find a basic or two but no RIP or way to win the game. I play EE for 1 just to get a card out of my hand...and he concedes...stating, "you can kill my last deathrite, I have no way to get past Energy Field after that". I neglect to tell him how miserable that would be for me.
G2: He never over extends, but continuously plays men as I play removal. Hardcasts Hoof with 1 other elf untapped and attacks me to 8 as I swords the Hoof. Terminus on draw. Get Jace, CB-Top. Cast EtA for 3 on next draw, followed by pyroclasm during main. He concedes.
Honestly, I've had the problem for a while of not having much to post about. I've been very happy with my 75 lately, and the only times I don't do great with the deck are when I make mistakes. Perhaps I should start taking notes so that I can write tournament reports. I feel like the decks to beat usually benefit more from discussion on strategy rather than card by card analysis (the exception being when there is a meta-shift or when relevant cards get printed).Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
I'll try to remember Saturday's tournament as best as I can...
Round 1: Deathblade (with Bobs)
G1: I go t1 Top; he plays t1 Deathrite. I pass t2, he goes Bob + Wasteland, I top and see Terminus, Counterbalance, land. T3 I draw the Terminus, play a land, and pass. He tries to play a second Bob and I FoW. T4 I play Counterbalance, stacking a Jace on top. He tries to play Jace and it gets Counterbalanced. I untap play Jace and stack a 2 cmc on top. He tries to play Mystic, it gets countered. I start Fatesealing and the game was over very quickly. Took about 10 min total.
SB: -3 FoW, -1 RIP, -1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Venser
+3 REB, +1 Elspeth, +1 Entreat, +1 Supreme Verdict
G2: I don't remember much of this game except that it was a terribly grindy affair. I do remember at some point him playing a Liliana, which got immediately ganked by my Celestial Colonnade. There was a Jace war at one point. I resolved my own then Brainstormed and REBd his Jace. I couldn't keep the board empty, however, and I eventually lost my Jace. I eventually died not finding any sweepers.
G3: With 12 minutes left on the clock, we were both playing very quickly and sloppily. Unfortunately I was the sloppier of us. The key point of this game came down to a board state of me with Top (double Swords in hand and Jace + REB on top of my deck) and him with a fresh Batterskull and a Deathrite in play. My plan was to EoT Swords the Deathrite, play Jace with REB backup (although this required losing Top) and then bounce the Germ. What actually happened was that I forgot to Swords the Deathrite, I cast Jace, he FoW'd, I drew REB and fetched a Volcanic to resolve Jace, and now I'm tapped down, with no Top, and Jace can't survive the crackback. He resolved Jace and I couldn't quite recover. I ended up resolving another Jace later (which found Helm + ETutor), but I couldn't fight his CA. I played Helm, cast ETutor, Brainstormed the RIP to my hand, then promptly died to his hardcast FoW.
Round 2: Sneak and Show
G1: I mull a hand with no lands and end up keeping a six with Plains, Karakas, Top, RIP, and some other irrelevant cards. I play t1 Top, he goes Island Preordain, so I'm mostly certain he's combo. T2 I play Karakas, RIP, and pass. He plays Volcanic and another cantrip, so I put him on Sneak and Show. T3, I upkeep Top looking for land or FoW, I don't see either, so I pass. He goes for the Show and Tell with 1 Lotus Petal open. The safer play was likely to just see what he puts in and hopefully bounce it with Karakas, but that leaves me open to his two R sources the next turn. Instead, I Top'd again looking for countermagic/Helm and found only a Clique. I drew the Clique and dropped it off SNT, but unfortunately he had the Petals into Emrakul in response to the trigger. He proceeded to wipe my board and take me to 5. We played draw go for a couple turns, and I had gotten back up to Top and 2 lands when he drew the second Emrakul for the win.
SB: -4 Swords, -3 RIP, -1 Helm, -1 Terminus
+3 REB, +1 Ethersworn, +1 FoW, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Venser, +1 Pithing Needle
G2: I believe that I mulled, but I don't quite remember what. He had a bit of a slow start. I ended up casting a Counterbalance on t3, which he fought, and I protected with REB. Eventually I grinded him out with Counterbalance and Jace, floating a 4 on top.
G3: I keep a beautiful hand of DSphere, FoW, Top, some lands and Blue cards. On the play he goes City and Lotus Petal into Show and Tell. I let it resolve and drop DSphere, eating a Sneak Attack. The game proceeds as planned, and he can't recover while I again Jace him out with Counterbalance backup.
Round 3: Grixis Delver
G1: Again, my poor notetaking takes a toll. I can't remember much of this game except that I resolved Counterbalance + Top and stabilized at a low life total post-Terminus. The most interesting thing in this game was that even with Counterbalance and Top in play, I let a couple Lightening Bolts resolve as they weren't very threatening and I didn't want to open myself up to Bob or Pyromancer by flipping Top.
SB: -3 FoW, -1 RIP, -1 Detention Sphere, -1 Venser
+3 REB, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Supreme Verdict, +1 Vendilion Clique
G2: Nothing much to say about this game. I kept a 2 lander, and despite getting a Top, I never saw the third land and died with Supreme Verdict in my hand.
reSB: -3 RIP, -1 Detention Sphere, -1 Helm, -1 Venser
+3 REB, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Supreme Verdict, +1 Vendilion Clique
G3: I felt like RIP was only really useful for Lavamancer, which is pretty bad against me anyways, and that FoW might help me stabilize a little earlier. I got a reasonably early Top and ended up wiping out his board of Delver and Pyromancer with a Terminus. He resolves a Sulfuric Vortex, and on my next turn I resolve a Counterbalance. We play draw go for a couple turns, with me occasionally countering his attempts to resolve a threat. Eventually I find an Entreat and make 3 Angels, leaving 1 mana open in order to play around Daze. I untap and drop to 3 life, replay Top, swing, and put him to 2. He dies on upkeep and flashes me the Daze.
Round 4: High Tide
G1: This was an atrociously long game. In hindsight, perhaps there was a point that I could have scooped earlier, but I'm fairly certain that I had outs at every point of the game. I mulled my first hand, which was mono-nothing. Over the first few turns I resolved RIP and Counterbalance, but had no Top and my only library manipulation was fetchlands. He played pretty conservatively to make sure that I didn't catch him on a blind flip. He resolved two Merchant Scrolls finding FoW then HT. Eventually, he EoT Cunning Wishes, I reveal a Swords on Top, and he finds a Wipe Away. Before he has a chance to untap, I fetch to hopefully find a 3 cmc. He untaps and plays Time Spiral. I blind flip a Terminus. Epic. I fetch again at his EoT and draw a second Counterbalance. I'm feeling reasonably well, but am now out of manipulation. He tests my CB with a cantrip and I reveal a Polluted Delta. Wah wah. He then Wipe Aways my RIP (which at the time, I thought was very odd). He plays HT and a couple draw spells before Time Spiraling. I draw nothing useful. He starts HTing, drawing more, while I have no interaction in hand and only a 2cmc on top. He eventually draws the Wipe Away again and bounces a Counterbalance before Time Spiraling again. My new 7 also contained no interaction, so I just sat there as he drew the Wipe Away yet again to bounce my last Counterbalance. At this point, I asked to see a kill or non-Time Spiral draw spell for the scoop, and he showed me Blue Sun's Zenith.
SB: -4 Swords, -3 Rest in Peace, -3 Terminus, -1 Helm
+3 Leyline of Sanctity, +3 REB, +1 Ethersworn, +1 FoW, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Venser, +1 Pithing Needle
G2: With about 15 min on the clock, I mull my first hand of junk and keep double Leyline, double land, Counterspell, FoW. We both durdle for several turns, with him cantriping and me finding a Top. I assume that he has very few ways to remove Leyline and most or all of those will only be accessible through Cunning Wish. My priorities are then to keep him from drawing too many cards and keep him from casting Cunning Wish. He eventually attempts to go off. I have only FoW and Counterspell in my hand, with 2 Leylines, and a Top in play. I have 2 Tundras, a Volcanic, and a Karakas untapped. I let his HT resolve to turn on both of my cards and let him resolve Turnabouts, until he casts Time Spiral with 1 card left in hand. I tap Karakas and the Tundras to hardcast FoW, he hardcasts FoW back, and I tap the Volcanic to Counterspell. I untap, find an Entreat, and set up to Entreat for lethal a turn from now (after making the next two land drops). He untaps and does something to my Top as we go into turns (maybe bounce, but I can't remember why he did this). Unfortunately, I can't reorder my library or draw the Entreat during his EoT, so I end up drawing it for my draw on Turn 1. I make 3 Angels, leaving 2 mana open to both play around Flusterstorm as well as being able to replay my Top and have open mana. Entreat resolves, I replay Top, and pass. He draws and passes, so I Top and find an Ethersworn Canonist. Turn 3, I swing and put him to 7 (choosing not to attack with my Colonnade in case I had to Top and cast something during his turn), play Canonist, and pass. He draws and scoops, as he would die on Turn 5 of turns. He said he had one out, but I have no idea what that might have been... perhaps an Echoing Truth? Swinging with my Colonnade on Turn 3 would have prevented him from Echoing Truthing my Angels, but would have also left me tapped down. I feel like I made the right play (although it didn't seem to matter).
The lessons for the day... Don't make a plan, forget part of it, and implement the rest. Assess long, grindy games better in order to decide if I'd be better served by scooping prematurely in order to have more time for the rest of the match.
I was about to write a post agreeing with you, but looking over semi-recent SCG results (since June), the TES decks haven't had the red blast sideboard. It looks like Chain of Vapor is where it's at in terms of killing an enchantment like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
edit: Yes, I know this isn't a great sample size.
It's Chain of Vapor + Abrupt Decay coming out of storm-combos SB for such Enchantments ... Reactive cards like REB doesn't make sense in a deck with Infernal Tutor + Lion's Eye Diamond
Thanks for writing this up :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
I got asked on Twitter how I deal with the 12 post matchup. Being that this is a very budget deck, it's something I actually run into in the local meta fairly frequently and I'd really like to know how ya'll handle it as well.
The hardest part of the matchup is that none of our targeted removal does anything and CB/top can't get online early enough to stop their build up. I hadn't really thought about it until now, but 12 Post has the potential to be hardcasting an Emrakul on turn 4. (3 cloudposts and a candelabra = 15 mana plus whatever land you played turn 4)
Blood Moon shuts down the combo 100%. If you went first or they didn't get the nuts, you have a fighting chance to lock them out with Moon. However, this requires a very particular hand with either blood moon in your first 10 cards or spending most of a turn using enlightened tutor to find it. I run one main and one side and always bring in the second moon.
Humility is freaking sweet and I think anyone who knows me knows I love it. I think it's just too slow. Again, you need to actually get it into your hand and have double white on turn four (not that this should be a problem). Humility has the secondary problem of shutting down many of our winconditions, including Venser, Clique, and Entreat.
Ensnaring Bridge is my current favorite solution. It comes down on turn 3 with no colored mana requirement.
Terminus is freaking sweet. At the end of the turn they cast emrakul, putting it at the bottom means that their entire extra turn was spent durdling. You've effectively given them an extra land drop and nothing else
In games 2 and 3, I take out my swords and 1-of supreme verdict. Though the verdict does hit emrakul, it's unlikely Anihilator 6 will leave me with four lands.
If you're looking for stuff to bring in because you've now taken out 3-5 cards, O-ring isn't terrible. It's especially good if they play one of the 12 post variants that also has show and tell. Meddling Mage is another not-terrible option.
Any input on how else to deal with this pretty tricky matchup?
12 post is a bad matchup. Humility is OK but not great. Your clock isn't fast enough before Eye of Ugin->Ulamog/Karakas takes over. Blood Moon is great vs them (Cornered Market to an extent if you don't want to splash red), but it means playing an ETutor list to find it reliably. I've had some success with Mindbreak Traps out of the board since it exiles their guys, even Emmy.
New list, nothing terribly innovative, but I feel it's got game against everything. After taking a brief hiatus from the CounterTop version, it's back with a vengeance; it's just so good everywhere. I have preferred the Legends style build the most. Miracles I think has the most flexibility out of most of the decks in the format for maindeck answers that would typically be reserved for the sideboard, hence the large number of MD Enchantments. My only concern is the rather low blue count for FoW, but I think it's enough.
Sideboard of course is always changing.
//Artifacts
4 Sensei's Divining Top
//Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
//Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor
//Sorceries
1 Ponder
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
//Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
1 Blood Moon
2 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
//Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Lands
5 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
////Sideboard////
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Blood Moon
1 Wear // Tear
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Rest in Peace
1 Moat
2 Misdirection
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Counterbalance
12Post is definitely not a budget deck, it's quite the opposite. A good 12post pilot considers Miracles a bye matchup, it is really that bad. Blood Moon and E. Bridge are definitely your best options, as Karakas generally does nothing against them. Other than that just pray they suck with the deck (more than likely, as it's pretty skill intensive) or just hope to dodge the matchup all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
The problem with this matchup is that we do not have a fast clock or wastelands to set them back. Blood Moon is good and is probably the only card that will hurt them substantially. However, they do run basic islands and repeal so don't expect moon to automatically win you the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
Ensnaring Bridge and Terminus are only good in the beginning, if they manage to slip through a show and tell for eldrazi monster or Titan (though you are very far behind with just one titan etb trigger). Late game, these cards do not do a whole lot as they can just Eye of Ugin their Emrakul for infinite turns with karakas, or find their Ulamog to vindicate all your hate.
EoT a million angels might still not be good enough because they can buy a LOT of time with glacial chasm and the lifegain posts.
In response to the other poster. I do not think it is a good idea to play very narrow cards like mindbreak trap just for this matchup. It's just not worth the sb slots. Just side in your show and tell hate and blood moons and hope for the best really...
Needle is good against candelabra and eye of ugin, although it will only slow them down a bit.
Has anyone really given Bonfire a try? Sorry for the small post, but it seems like a ringer...
-ABC
A ringer like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8LFyyiv93sQuote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
In other words, people have asked about it and other people who have actually played magic before have told them why it's bad: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...archid=1204524
Edit: hmm, looks like the thread-search tool doesn't provide a unique link. My suggestion to anyone posting in a well-established archetype that you don't follow compulsively (like I do with too many threads :frown:) is to use the "Search Thread" tool on the upper-right side of the page. You don't even have to read the results, just skim. In this case, you would have seen over 10 posts that specifically reference "Bonfire" and most explain why it's bad.
Terminus is in one of our main colors so it is far easier to cast, kills everything for (1), and if we cared about the damage we can do much better per mana with Entreat.
I think Terminus and Entreat are better at what you're trying to do. However, if you weren't in White, then Bonfire is excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn
-Matt
RUx Countertop!?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Matt, you sly devil, what have you got up your sleeve!?
I'm going to try to make more of an effort to remember and write up reports when I can. Hopefully I can express the game states clearly enough that people will have things to say about different plays or at the very least about sideboarding.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Unfortunately Eye of Ugin makes Terminus somewhat lackluster. Blood Moon is there to help. Counterbalance + Top can be good early, but quickly loses value if they naturally draw their Cloud Posts. It's really a pretty rare deck since most people who have Candelabra of Tawnos will be playing High Tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
We talked about it a while back. I brewed up a "big RUG" Counterbalance deck that wasn't bad, although I don't know if it's still in this thread or not. Either way, it just wasn't as powerful as the W offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
@ oarsman, I saw your match against Todd playing that weird Reanimator deck. It was pretty fun watching it from his side. Though in game 2, I'm curious why you didn't just Venser his Griselbrand instead of bouncing the Exhume. He'd get to draw 7, but drops to 1, has no more creatures in the yard, and has to produce either 2 blockers or an Elesh Norn to not die. Nice games though.
All the things. Deck's GOOD.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
-Matt
Dzra, the play you are suggesting sounds so much better than what I actually did that I am embarrassed. I didn't even think about that. I don't remember the exact situation, but I know I was afraid he would draw a land and be able to recast the Exhume. The best I can come up with is that against a deck with counters I probably wouldn't want them to draw seven. And since most reanimator decks have counters, I just spaced out for a second and feared that would happen.
Right or wrong, I would have made the same play. But it's mostly because I always have the bad luck to be against a Griselbrand who always draws a Force of Will in their first 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
If you have reason to believe his deck has counter magic then the decision definitely becomes a lot tougher. Since it seemed like you were basically all in on the Venser keeping Griselbrand off the table, I think that it's still likely worth risking him drawing into counter magic rather than relying on your one draw step to prevent his incoming Exhume the following turn. Looking at the video one more time though, he does leave Badlands up, possibly representing the ability to draw into REB. Either way, you're always great to watch and I've definitely had my fair share of bloops.Quote:
Originally Posted by oarsman
I'm sorry to ask you this Drza but after reading your last report, i was very interested to know your decklist. Unfortunately, i couldn't find it in the 40 previous pages so i gave up :(.
Could you please paste it here again or maybe send it to me by private message ?
Thank you very much.
What do you think about the new counter "swan song"? do you think there is room for it in this deck?
One thing that should be taken into consideration is how bad the 2/2 Bird token really is for us. Something that can only be found out with some testing. Against S&T we want to lock them out of the game with Counterbalance or just delay their combo while beating them with Snapcaster/ Vendilion/ Venser or Combo Kill them with Entreat or Helm of Obedience. Against Storm decks Flusterstorm is always strictly superior, but Swan Song is still very good because it can counter some keycards.Quote:
Originally Posted by cschacal
On the other hand Swan Song seems very bad against RUG Delver or Jund and any additional pressure is really tough in these matchups.
Flusterstorm is still king against RUG Delver.
Spell Pierce is probably just better. That's the conclusion I came to, anyway.
In the context of Miracle, Swan Song serves almost the same purpose as Flusterstorm, assuming your version runs it. I don't believe SS would replace the SP slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by cschacal
But Flusterstorm is incredibly good. I'm not cutting my nigh uncounterable counterspell for 1.
Still not ignore that Swan Song would be a much better mid-/lategame card compared to Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce ... It's a real skilltester with Jace, Terminus, Entreat basically able to negate the drawback.
For me, its limitations in countering plus drawback more or less puts it behind pierce. True its more useful mid to late, but by then...we should have UU already for a hard counterspell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarapfish
-
Swan Song has no maindeck potential imo and when it comes to SB options there are strictly better choices.
Couple questions.
What do you think about playing Academy Ruins in a 22 land manabase? In my short experience I've already had trouble drawing it in my initial hand. It's nice to be able to randomly recur explosives but yeah... (cage, canonist, needle side, not playin helm).
Is V.Shackles worth it main or sb?
The list I'm testing (any kind of criticism appreciated):
1 Explosives
4 Top
2 Snapcaster
2 Clique
1 Venser
4 Balance
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Fow
2 Pierce
4 Swords
3 Jace
2 Entreat
3 Terminus
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Misty
1 Polluted
1 Scalding
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic
SB:
1 Rip
1 Explosives
1 Cage
1 Needle
1 Shackles
1 Canonist
1 Blood Moon
1 E.Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wear/Tear
1 Pyroclasm
3 Elemental Blast
Not sure about the 4 Balance main or the E.tutor sb either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
Just wanted to say that we play the exact same main except I'm -1 Counterspell, +1 Ponder, -1 Force, +1 Misdirection, and a slightly different mana base. I've been loving the 2-2-1 split of Snapcaster, Clique, and Venser. Some people dislike the Snapcaster in favor of more Cliques but I find that I get rolled over by aggressive strategies too often without it.
I tried Academy Ruins for a while and found that the colorless mana hurt me more often than I was able to get advantage from it by recurring explosives. Also, I think that 22 lands is a little on the low end without the extra Ponder. I know it's just one card but it has smoothed my draws countless times. I would either go 23 land or 22 + Ponder. You do not want to miss your first 3 land drops.
4 Counterbalance has been great. I used to run 3 but I haven't looked back since going up to 4. I seem to assemble CounterTop so much more often than I did before and even when the first gets Decay'd I always seems to have the second. It wins a surprising amount of matches by just locking them out faster. It also gives you a much bigger chance against Burn and Combo, especially game 1. I'd keep the 4 main.
I haven't played with Shackles or Enlightened Tutor in the board. I can see situations where Shackles would be cool, but I feel like it's more of a cute thing, especially with all the Abrupt Decay running around. I really dislike the card disadvantage from Tutor, but if you have silver bullets you like to fetch, then I'm sure it can be worthwhile. Here's my SB for reference.
3 Rest in Peace
2 Wear // Tear
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Terminus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection