I don't know, I have literally never lost a match against storm...I'd probably put at least top 3 easiest matchups. And delver decks still feel borderline unloseable most of the time.
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I don't know, I have literally never lost a match against storm...I'd probably put at least top 3 easiest matchups. And delver decks still feel borderline unloseable most of the time.
About storm I ain't sure but it might be because I've only played it once with POX (and it lasted only one turn !) but for me the deck I want to seat across is delver variants (grixis less and canadian the most).
Hardest match up, I would say vial decks (but my struggles of the past vs gob might taint my view).
Tribal match ups are a slog pre board for sure, but very winnable. Post board there is no reason to ever not include Engineered Plague and that really shores that up a lot. As for the storm match up; sometimes they have the turn 1 nut and you don't even get to play a land. That does happen unfortunately, but generally if you get to fire off a single discard spell you begin to spare yourself some time and the match up slowly tilts in your favor. They need 2 things to kill you: 1 Mass of spells. 2 Mass of mana. We attack both resources very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plm
My one match vs storm went like that : he turn one me , I look at my hand of duress, small pox and die a little inside.
game 2 I have a hand with some sideboard card, the mana for it and a duress. I take his tutor leaving nothing but mana, he topdecks ad nauseam and I soon am on my way to get pizzas for my team :cry:
Didn't play storm again with pox since then.
I remember a time when I had to maindeck 2 engineered plague to counter the lackey menace so I am traumatized :wink:
Sometimes storm just has hands like that. Depending on what was in your opponents hand it may have been correct to take a ritual rather than a tutor. If he has 2 or 3 lands and he can't actually tutor hellbent, then you have time to further disrupt his hand in which case you leave tutor and take something like LED. The top deck Ad Nauseam is unfortunate and not too much that you can do about draws like that. Just remember in order to get tutor online plus cast the selected card is usually going to require 7 mana to restart a chain of spells off something like past in flames, or 7 mana to just take the chance at an ad nauseam never mind the fact that they HAVE to draw lotus petals to restart the chain. Sometimes it is better to go after the mana depending on their options. Knowing storm and being able to pilot the deck yourself can help to make that decision.
I find it favorable too, despite running only Hymn for discard.
It is important to remember to bring in engineered plague from the sideboard, since that is their plan against us.
Speaking about Miracles I recall how I had fun with Ankh of Mishra back while I still was playing with a 100% proxy deck. Not sure it would be any good for real, but I need something for that match-up. Maybe factories and Cursed scroll will do the trick.
Ankh of Mishra is perfectly fine vs Miracles. A lot of their control comes from selection from tops and fetchlands. Each fetch being a 5 point loss of life is great.
Well, actually one of the local Miracles players go for fast monastery mentor win in second duels. I think one or two Cursed scroll could be necessary.
I'm not sure why anyone would ever cut cursed scroll. It's a staple for sure and gives us the ability to scroll end of turn to try and kill mentor, if they can save it you can follow up on upkeep or main phase to likely kill it. Ankh is just a great addition against miracles to really punish them for playing lands, especially fetch lands, which they play a lot of.
I can see trimming a scroll, and there are meta directions where I won't argue with moving them to the board, but I usually want tem somewhere in my 75. As mentioned earlier, miracles doesn't care for bitterblossom either, so that could be something that you use to shore up the matchup. I will state that the only games I have lost to storm opponents were when they turn 1ed on the play, which they haven't managed very often, and none of them have managed it twice a match. Each time they would have on the draw they either didn't draw a replacement for what I made them discard in time, I hit multiple of a key piece with surgical extraction (with your past in flames on the stack, you don't have dark rituals any more. Oops) or I got to drop a turn one trinisphere/nether void. The matchup I least like seeing across from me is veteran explorer, but that's mostly because te two local players we have with it are either persist/unearth heavy (pod strangleroot into finks into glen elendra) or walker heavy (I have difficulty dealing with ashiok into mind sculptor into karn.)
Today's list have a record 20 threats.
Since contagion make it harder to cast Tombstalker I have switched to Gurmag Angler.
4 Bloodghast
1 nether spirit
1 necroplasm
3 nihilith
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
3 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
3 shrieking affliction
4 contagion
1 The rack
12 Swamp
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 bloodstained mire
1 polluted delta
Been thinking about building a Loam Pox deck similar to this: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13558&d=279780&f=LE. What are peoples thoughts on that list. Should it be playing any Mox Diamonds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
I also definitely want to test 2x Collective Brutality aswell, seems good with Life From the Loam and the retrace cards...
Thoughts?
Big Pox is Smallpox #5-8. CB however has one thing that'll never make it 'pox-like' in nature. Land Destruction. In testing, I can't seem to find what I'd remove for it. Granted, the card has utility on par with Funeral Charm having 3 useful 'modes' but if only it allowed some form of mana denial. I'm currently running only a single copy of Big Pox but I wouldn't remove it for CB. It doesn't do enough damage nor destroy any lands. Some have spoken about using it as a way to undermine burn, which makes sense as CB will always have a target and it will keep you afloat for a bit. It also kills all of burn's pesky 2/2 haste goblins. I've tested something very similar to the MTGO winning deck posted some pages back and it turned out to be the best thing to kill my friend's Miracles deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
For me, and many other Pox players I'm sure, that deck should be the hardest matchup unless you can kill them before they establish anything, which is hard to do using traditional Pox methods.
So it has been awhile. But someone asked what my sideboard was from my last report.
It was:
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague
1 Extirpate
1 Infinite Obilteration
1 Memoricide
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt.
As far as storm. It can be a tough matchup. I actually just built storm to understand the deck better as I really had no idea what the combo was until I started doing it myself.
Storm is great against if you're on the play and can have a hand that is something like, Turn 1 Inquisition, Turn 2 Hymn to tourach, Turn 3...
The problem is that sometimes you have an opening hand with a lot more creature removal. A sinkhole/wasteland isn't too bad because storm does not run a lot of lands, but they do not need a lot either.
Also, a good storm player is going to realize you have no counterspells when they realize what deck you're on. An experienced player may know to go for it after they see basic swamp inquisition. And will definitely know by turn 2 if the optimal lands and spells are played.
The matchup is much better after board. At least as one can see with my board I have a lot of graveyard removal, and combo piece removal. Graveyard removal turns off past in flames wins, it can also make Cabal Rituals a lot weaker, just having a threat artifact like Tormod's crpyt out there will force them to play differently. Ratchet bomb can screw with the Empty the Warrens, etc. In the end, removing all of the useless single creature removal and single land removal (Innocent Blood, Sinkholes, Ensnaring Bridge, Bitterblossom, The Abyss, etc) allows the deck to have more action pieces. One still have to be aware of their Echoing Truth, Abrupt Decay etc.
On that note, Charbelcher is absolutely miserable. I do not think we have enough discard to mess with them during the early turns. And graveyard removal does not help against them. Just pray the opening hand is Turn 1 Inquistion, Turn 2 Hymn. I playtested several times and could not find a way to beat it. Unfortunately, the deck is cheap on paper so you have a higher chance of seeing it. Not to mention, I personally have no respect for a Belcher player...the deck takes literally 0 skill. If you're offended, good. Learn to play a real magic deck.
Someone also asked about Lands.
Lands is rough to play against. But luckily the deck is expensive on paper, so you may not see a lot of it.
Game 1 is very rough because land destruction and discard does not do much to a Loam engine. They just get everything back. Creature removal is useless. So basically, everything but the lands in the deck are kind of useless against the matchup. Hopefully you get to discard cards like Gamble and Crop Rotation...but still.
Game 2 and 3 sideboard cards that say "nonland" are useless, and the graveyard removal is not enough to take up every useless slot. At least with my setup. Even with all the cards coming in, there is only so many card that can go in. Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, Infinite Obliteration, Cranial Extraction, Memoricide do not help. Ratchet bomb isn't even great, but it is okay against a Dark Depths combo so it comes in.
Basically the deck needs to get an early bitterblossom and a way to get rid of loam once it is in the graveyard. Yet, even with bitterblossom they can still crop rotate for a Tabernacle and now you're taking 1 life per turn, and screwing your own mana base.
Settled on this so far after a few games on mtgo:
Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
Creatures (3)
3 Bloodghast
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (23)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Innocent Blood
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
Artifacts (5)
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Massacre
1 Collective Brutality
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Disfigure
1 Choke
1 Black Sun's Zenith
Tried Nether Spirit for the first few iterations and felt like the deck durdled too much after assuming a controlling position. This led me to drop Spirit and try 3 Bloodghast as a way to try and close out the games.
Also, I like the Mox Diamonds as a way to break parity with Smallpox...found that they were way more useful as they help fight through Blood Moon and even allow for turn one Hymns..
So far I like the list, definitely need to play more games and tune more..
Ratchet bomb does nothing against Dark Depths because Marit Lage is indestructibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Epeirogeny
I played a punishing chains/anvil jund list last night and it was hilarious.
anyway to morph this into a playable punishing POX list?
4 chains of mephistopheles
3 anvil of bogardan
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Nether Spirit
3 punishing fire
3 abrupt decay
3 mox diamond
1 cursed scroll
1 crucible of worlds
3 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kozilek
3 hymn to tourach
2 life from the loam
4 smallpox
3 liliana of the veil
1 forest
2 swamp
3 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 wasteland
1 badlands
2 bloodstained mire
4 grove of the burnwillows
3 Mishra's Factory
SB was a mess
1 virtue's ruin
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 maelstrom pulse
1 diabolic edict
2 surgical extraction
1 boil
1 red elemental blast
3 leyline of sanctity
2 leyline of the void
1 kolaghan's command
Well, it's been a while, but the format doesn´to too much, so...
First of all, thank you all for comment.
1. Untill now, i have not need life gain. I supose if my meta change, i can try Umezawa's Jitte or Syphon life. bitterblossom is sb against Miracles, so we don't have to fear to be rushed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
2. You're right about the 8 graveyard hate. Still, extirpate works great against other decks, like Lands, ANT and other combo decks.
3. You're right about marsh flats.
4. cursed scroll has not been necessary beacause the versatility of Vindicate, and the 10 win conditions of the deck.
1. Vindicate is the base of the deck. Increases land destruction, helps against permanents an specialy sideboards. It's the reason for Bw.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
2. +1 about life gain.
3. You're right about marsh flats
Thanks man, i really apreciate the way you keep your mind flexible..Quote:
Originally Posted by sppabin
1. As you say, the deck can asume a more agressive position, simultaneaously we are taking board control and take advantage of the card advantage.
2. toxic deluge is only a way to be consistent with the card advantag plan. (But whar cards do you mean by "permanent removal"?).
3. To be sincere, [/Cards]bitterblossom[/Cards] is primarily against miracles an other counter magic decks. And it has worked really good, beacause we increase the things they have to counter, and they can't do that, and the consistency with the card advantage game plan.
4. Vindicate is the base of the deck. Increases land destruction, helps against permanents an specialy sideboards. It's the reason for Bw.
5. [/Cards]Flagstones of trokair[/Cards] has been inconvinient,
I really like the way you insist in a pox-tempo deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I've been thinking in some way to make tempo-pox viable. The only model woth to mention it, is a:
Br pox reanimator.
// Lands
4 [KTK] Bloodstained Mire
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [B] Badlands
1 [M12] Mountain (4)
1 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage
1 [4E] Swamp (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [NPH] Chancellor of the Annex
3 [AVR] Griselbrand
// Spells
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [C14] Faithless Looting
4 [US] Exhume
4 [ARC] Reanimate
3 [A] Sinkhole
4 [M12] Smallpox
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
Do you think it works? It seems fun to me.
Se you all,
I think you only want 21-22 lands if you're going to hybridize with reanimator. I also think that I'd want to see some number of collective brutality since it acts as a thoughtseize effect for the relevant interaction, kills specifically deathrites shaman, and they can't get rid of the discard by countering the spell. I also think that I would want a second basic swamp in there and some way to accelerate mana to be able to get explosive starts, but some amount of that is just personal building preferences.
Greetings Friends,Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
I have been playing MonoB Rack Pox unregularly for about 2 years, then stopped playing Legacy at all for another 2 years. But now, back into Legacy with Nic Fit, I'm planning on expanding my card pool for junk colors including Loam Pox, and I really like this list. I have also seen the Sundberg (?) list, and I guess a fine mixture of both would be a perfect starting point. Nonetheless I have some questions/suggestions:
1) Bloodghasts never impressed me, they always feel underwhelming unless the board is cleared and you have 3-4 of them 'online'. They can't block too which often led to problems protecting Liliana or the life total. I prefer the more defensive strategy here regarding Nether Spirit. That also opens 2-3 slots as Bloodghasts require to be played as a 4of to be most effective.
2) With those free slots I would add some additional removal. I know Abrupt Decay is the top choice here, but 4x Smallpox and 3-4x Innocent Blood always felt important. Maybe also the 3rd Liliana or Pernicious Deed main?
3) Has someone ever added more Crop Rotation for a more focused combo win? Don't want to push the deck into the wrong direction, but maybe there could be a successful hybrid Loam-Pox-(Turbo)-Dephts build in the future.
4) Do we necessary need Mox Diamonds? Yes, there is synergy with Loam, but i was never a fan of this in Pox.. but tell me I'm wrong if i should overthink this.
5) I'm very interested in your results considering Collective Brutality. I has its ups and downs, yes, but if it has its place in Legacy it is in this deck.
6) Going to try a singleton Worm Harvest (main or sb?) because vs. control different angles of attack are good.
7) Additional Massacre in the board because there is so much D&T in my meta?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyer
1. i understand that ghasts' inability to block sucks, but being a relentless attacker, is not the only reason why its ran; it also creates incremental card advantage when you discard it to lili, dredge it in the yard, etc because you don't actually lose any resources when you pitch them...its also more interesting now with cards like collective brutality..i also wouldn't be worried too much about playing them together with a lone nether spirit, they hardly interact with each other..but if you don't wish to run a purely offensive card you might add some more removal or utility..you might wanna try top, deed, another lili,
2. there's no reason not to run abrupt decay when you're splashing green, it improves the miracles matchup..i like a copy of deed in the main if i'm running green..you may experiment with nev's disk if you're looking for a quasi-effect in mono black..
3. here's a list running rotations: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13558&d=279780&f=LE i'm not sure about running a full-4 though..
4. if you wish to run deeds in the main, you may want to skip on the diamonds..
5. reanimator decks are probably the ones utilizing it the most lately, i've been seeing a lot of lists run it as a 1 or 2-of..but in pox, i think it has more synergy with the green splash..
6. i also like a singleton worm harvest in loam pox, another card i've being seeing in some lists lately is Vraska the Unseen..
7. 1 or 2 is good in a meta full o' DnT..dread of night is also good against them albeit a little more narrow..
1)I wanted to increase the threat density and Bloodghast do the job pretty well. I think you can get away with playing just 3 copies. One thing I had to do was increase the removal to allow them to get through. Nether Spirit, while it does block just felt undwewhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyer
2)I was playing one Innocent Blood and moved it up to 2x. Not sure a third Lili is needed.
3)Crop Rotation is good as it allows us to find other utility lands. I didnt want to go to deep into the combo and needed slots for other cards...so I just play it as a 1-of.
4) For me I think the Mox Diamonds are what give this deck the edge it needs. With Mox Diamonds you can go turn one Hymn to Tourach or Wasteland into Mox into IOK, or Innocent Blood, sometimes IOK into Sensei's Diving Top, etc...It also helps break the parity of Smallpox by allowing us to play an "extra" land. Its virtually a mana dork that doesnt die to SmallPox. Mox Diamond has also helped me to cast spells through Blood Moon. If you are playing mono-black, the role of Mox Diamond is fulfilled with Dark Ritual. So far I really like them...and of course you can get the land you discarded back with Life From the Loam....
5) So far Collective Brutality has been good. I think I want another, but in the sideboard for the Burn match-up. It plays well with Bloodghast and Life From the Loam.
6) Worm Harvest is a card I go back and forth on, right now I just play with 2x Garruk Relentless in the sideboard. At 5cmc, Harvest is too much to cast.
7) Massacre is a great, I'd add another if DNT/Maverick was heavy in my meta.
Either way, I definitely recommend Sensei's Diving Top and/or Sylvan Library somewhere in the main.
Thank you. I totally missed that. Great point.Quote:
Originally Posted by eternaldarkness
As far as reanimate pox goes. There is a Japanese guy who tried out a list. Who top 8'd a 72 man event. Here is the link to the list. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13314&d=278162&f=LE
Basically it looks like Pox, but takes out the land destruction for reanimate package. I also like the Thoughtseizes over Inquisitions here simply because it allows you to take away Force of Wills despite the life loss. Necessary to get reanimate/animate dead off. It also allows us to Thoughtseize ourself to get a fatty into the yard.
Personally, my list would play:
+1 Hymn to Tourach, +1 Grim Tutor
-1 Fatty, -1 Diabolic Tutor
Simply because they are cards I already own, Diabolic tutor is fine otherwise. And I have the Hymn to Tourach, but I don't have the last Grave Titan. I don't think it would make a huge difference.
I also like the sideboard where if you're expecting the graveyard hate, you bring Leyline, Helm combo. Probably taking out the white creatures, and a few reanimate spells. Hoping to hard cast the bigger creatures in the long run, while controlling the opponents hand and creatures if you cant find the leyline helm combo.
Seems interesting. I may run it when I have to take my Pox deck apart to play Lands. Yet, I still like my mono-black pox list otherwise. I don't think I am going to take it apart anytime soon.
That's a very interesting list
It's very similar to another mono-black reanimator list from GP Kyoto 2015:
The changes areQuote:
1 Lake of the Dead
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Grave Titan
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Reanimate
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
4 Animate Dead
4 Liliana of the Veil
Side:
2 Engineered Plague
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Innocent Blood
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ratchet Bomb
-2 Urborg
-4 Wasteland
+1 Lake of the Dead
+3 Swamp (-2 Land overall)
+1 Grave Titan
+1 Wurmcoi
+4 Collective Brutality
+1 Diabolic Tutor
+2 Duress
-4 Liliana of the Veil
-2 Smallpox
-1 Hymn to Tourach
It's an interesting kind of strategy. Collective Brutality seems like it goes better with the Reanimator plan than Liliana does. I wonder what the BR Reanimator players think of this deck. The only advantage seems to be the ability to hardcast Grave Titans with lake of the dead and I'm not sure that's really worth it. I agree that Diabolic Tutor is probably not good enough (though whether it should be a Grim Tutor or something else entirely I'm not sure).
Yea i mean at the end of the day u/b reanimate is the best version. Though, i think this and the b/r are solid builds for a budget, or if you're just trying to play something fun and interesting. More of a Timmy deck than a Spike deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
Hello, been a while since I posted but since you're building on from my list (I'm Teodor Sundberg, in my first list the judge misspelled my lastname to Suntburg) which is based on jredelstein from this forum, I figured I could give some input in how i approached building the current iteration and my problematic match-ups.
1. I always disliked the bloodghast as a value card, I instead have my entomb package as a foucs. If you're going more aggresive I can see them working (and ofc cutting back on entombs) Nether spirit is also one of the best cards vs eldrazi.
2. the Number of innocent blood can be increased but I would not go beyond 3, I wouln't either in the current meta play full 4 lili but 3 is probably for the best.
3. crop rotation is critical and I think 2 is the minimum with the toolbox aspect of being able to get what you need in certain matchups.. I played 0-4 in my time and in my current meta I settled on 2. But if eldrazi continues to be big I would move up to 3 again (it just so bad vs miracles mainly to play the full 4 for the focuses win although it gives a much better game 1 vs burn and storm).
4., 5. I like the inlcusion of mox diamond in theory, but I don't have any real input. Same with collective, seems really good vs burn.
6. Worm harvest a really good card in the deck, it's however not solving any problems with a matchup you're having.
decks boarding in graveyard hate just get more out of it, RIP becomes RIP for the game. I played vraska here instead and I generally recommend her and board her in vs Most non-combo deck as an answer to walkers and being able to win.
7. Massacre is good vs certain starts of DnT but genreally to narrow and Engineered plague usually does more in the long run.
If you have any questions I should have a pile of cards i tried earlier and cards I'm currently trying out more.
The current card I'm trying to use more is contagion to have answer without mana up. Since people currently aren't afraid of me being tapped out.
What i'm afraid of is mostly: storm, Shardless bug and BR reaninmator.
Match-ups I think are good: Miracles, Creature aggro, Delver and Eldrazi.
Awesome to get a response, congrats on those tournament placings!Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxboy
1. I like that Nether Spirit can block, but without Cursed Scroll or The Rack, I feel like there aren't enough treats. I am assuming you rely more on the Dark Depths combo...I see it as an oops I win, but less of something I actively try to accomplish. Idk if thats the right call, but so far Bloodghast has been really good. I saw J. Edelstein run them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPf0vnusXx8 to some success and thought they were a nice edition. Also I don't have that much to Entomb for, usually I'm just grab Life From the Loam.
3. Crop Rotation is good, but I decided to go with the 2nd Innocent Blood instead. I can see going to another Rotation if my meta is more combo heavy for cards like Bojuka Bog, Maze of Ith or just getting Dark Depths combo online more reliably.
4. Mox Diamond and Collective Brutality have been good additions.
6. Yea, idk about Worm Harvest...you prefer Vraska instead of Garruk Relentless?
I might try Contagion aswell, kills Deathrite Shaman which is good against us.
Out of these Shardless is the toughest, they just get so much value with Shardless Agent and Ancestral Visions. Storm is a toss up, but another reason I like 3x Bloodghast, you can disrupt them with Hymns etc, but they build back up pretty fast and just need one turn to go off...Quote:
What i'm afraid of is mostly: storm, Shardless bug and BR reaninmator.
Are there any matchups where you board out Smallpox completely?
I usually board them out against Burn, Delver and Shardless and bring in the extra Collected Brutality...
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
I gave up my burn match up.
My two ways to win are combo and after board smallpox + sphere effects.
i board out loams, thoughtseize and some removal vs burn mostly, I can win but I decided not to give any consideration to it.
I never board out smallpox vs delver. Maybe a couple vs pyromancer versions but really, if I get them off lands with a tabernacle they are dead.
Shardless is mostly about my marit lage plan or raven's criming them to death (raven's crime being a virutal 4 copies with 4 entomb). In the raven's crime vs ancestal visions game you win.
I board out 1 smallpox vs people being really aggressive with wasteland as well. mainly DnT.
I can answer some on 1, 3 and 6
1. I rely more on the combo or setting up raven's crime loam and mishra (they can never answer it since they never have a card in hand when you activate it). The most important part about the win is not going for it but that they have to respect it.
3. Crop rotation is also semi wasteland protection, but I understand cutting it.
4. will try to get some mox diamonds in.
6. Vraska is the boss, she's a win con with vindicate attached. Garruk basically has 2 modes in my opinion. Make 2/2 or make 1/1 deathtouch, I tried him and I don't know what he's good against still.
Garruk is easier to cast, sometimes his "bolt" is useful...although I really wish he had a +1 ability. I may try Vraska as a 1:1 split. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would be awesome, could cast her thru Mox Diamond...but Idk if the slash is worth it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxboy
Do you have any plans to try Collective Brutality?
If going to a gp yes, at my local meta no.Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
As someone who has tested it, let me assure you that collective brutality is very good. It excels in the shardless bug, storm, and burn matchups, and is passable basically everywhere else except lands and eldrazi. Burn specifically has a lot of difficulty with one copy at .3 modes hitting the stack, and scoops to the second unless you've let them land a sulfuric vortex. Also, if you're on loan pox, a very simple way to up your burn win rate (assuming 3 or more entomb/crop rotation effects) is to find room for one nomad stadium and one scrubland. If you plan on going to a gp, try to have a strong plan vs miracles, storm, eldrazi, lands, D&T, delver variations, and shardless bug, since that seems to be where the meta is heading at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
I believe you, though my meta is currently with around different 50 players
Is something like this with alot of players owning additional decks.
1 burn player
Few storm (at least 20 players own storm , they just don't play it)
2-3 eldrazi
3+ mud, 12-post and similar.
3 + Maverick
Many (5+) Miracles
Many Delver all different variants
Many land players
Many infect
2-3 Stoneforge decks
2 Merfolk
3 reanimator
2 DnT
1 Elves (we had 2 good elves players a year ago, so we hate it out whenever a bad person picks it up)
1 sneak and show
and alot of other various decks. If i'm going to a GP i will pick up some copies in the sideboard but so far my focus lies in beating Eldrazi more reliably, currently thinking of replacing 1 raven's crime in the sideboard for 1 collective as a start however
30 person tourney a couple weeks ago and I ran the list below. Went 2-3, no point in staying for more, beer:30 called, drop.
Report might be a little hazy.
R1: DnT
G1: They mull to 4, concede.
G2: Smallpox early. Factory beats with Nether Spirit trading off little damage. He plays Silver Blade Paladin. Vials in Flickerwisp. He's at 1 I'm at 8. He soulbounds for 10. gg
G3: Dread of Night. Collective Brutality dropping Spirit. Engineered Plaugue. Pretty much ends any tricks. I'm at 21. He can't do much, I make Marit Lage. gg
2-1 | 1-0
R2: Infect (blech)
This is why playing with no Sinkholes feels so weird (wrong) to me.
G1: I Smallpox. He just stomps me after that with flying poison lands and an elf.
G2: Pretty much more of the same. Counters and poison. Never landed a plague. Got Garruk down to nuke a critter. Next turn he just takes out Garruk.
0-2 | 1-1
R3: Goblin Storm
G1: He goes all in and fails. I just Factory and Spirit him for several turns.
G2: Combos for 10 tokens. I collective Brutality for 3 killing a token netting 2 life. Deed for 0. gg
2-0 | 2-1
R4: Eldrazi (the only time I've ever played against Eldrazi)
G1: I take G1 with multiple Factories and Wastelands.
G2: He Relic of Progenitus my grave, casts Oblivion Sower. Kills me with my own stuff. Neat.
G2: Kind of more of the same. I do hold off his creatures more. Stage in play. he casts Oblivion Sower. I joke that my first reveal will be Wasteland. It is.
1-2 | 2-2
R5: Burn (I swear it's like my R5 opp every time)
G1: I eat a lot of his hand. 2 damage back and forth until I end up getting multiple Factories.
G2: Get Tabernacle and Sphere of Resistance in play slows him down. but hurts me too as I can't draw an Urborg. I get Fireblasted an PoP'ed.
G3: I can't take out enough or slow him soon enough and he drops Sulfuric Vortex and Pillar. Weeee Fireblast.
1-2 | 2-3
Maindeck (yes 61)
1 Nether Spirit
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Plague
3 Entomb
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard
1 Engineered Plague
1 Choke
1 Dread of Night
1 Extirpate
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trinisphere
Hey folks! I've just switched back to mono black pox after a long period of playing loam pox. I'm super excited, and the deck is performing pretty well, but I have a few struggles.
First of all, my list.
4 thoughtsieze
4 sinkhole
4 hymn to Tourach
4 smallpox
4 Liliana of the veil
4 innocent blood
4 cursed scroll
4 Dark ritual
1 inquisition of kozilek
1 shadow of Doubt
1 pox
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
4 Wasteland
4 mishra's factory
3 urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
12 swamp
4 Leyline of the void
4 trinisphere
2 Pithing needle
2 engineered plague
1 Perish
1 Toxic Deluge
1 delerium skeins
The fun-ofs are partly because I like them, and partly to be flex slots for adjustment.
I've had fairly good success with this list, beating up on d&t, infect, Delver, and lands in my meta. My problems are Burn and Omnitell.
Against burn I cut deluge, shadow of Doubt, pox, and 2 thoughtsieze for trinisphere and delerium skeins.
Against Omnitell, I cut innocent blood and deluge for the same.
Both decks are able to function from such a low base that I can't prevent them from winning. My only thought was more way to get them hellbent.
Is it worth running dedicated anti burn sideboard tech? Leylines of sanctity or Sun droplet? I've tried spinning darkness, and it helps a little vs Eidolon. I don't currently have access to nether voids. I feel like two of them might do the trick. Any experience with them?
Does surgical extraction help vs Omnitell? I don't have access to chains of mephistopheles either, but I expect they help vs all the cantrips. Any suggestions while I save my pennies?
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Nether void isn't usually my go to vs burn. On average their spells are cheaper and they can potentially play through a nether void more effectively than you can. Trinisphere is fine though. You could run sun droplet but I don't personally find it necessary. Your best bet is honestly being more aggressive and running things like the rack.
Against omnitell your best bet is just making them discard show and tell and hopefully extract it. Pithing needle can be good for sneak attacks if it is that variant. Once you get there it's all about your clock to kill them before they can pull something off.
I have said it before, I'll say it again. Collective brutality is a god-send against burn. The first one sets them back by at least three turns and the second one is borderline lights out. Trinisphere is handy, and upping your clock is also reasonable, spinning darkness and chalice of the void are also both going to give burn fits. Vs omni tell, you want chalice, trinisphere, more discard, surgicals, and the expensive enchantments (namely chains and nether void. Chains they have a huge problem with, nether void is usually lights out unless they're on the emrakul kill. If that's the case you can also consider ensnaring bridge.)
Side note, I feel like 4 cursed scrolls might be a bit much. How's that doing for ya?
I gotta try out collective brutality. I thought it seemed lackluster, but I wasn't thinking about burn. I love my scrolls, I never want to be without one, but I often trim one post board and I could see one fewer if I need the room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
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My updated list.
Mainboard:
1 nether spirit
1 black sun's zenith
3 dark ritual
1 entomb
3 hymn to tourach
4 innocent blood
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
2 toxic deluge
2 nether void
2 cursed scroll
1 crucible of worlds
4 liliana of the veil
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The tabernacle at pendrell vale
10 swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 engineered plague
3 leyline of the void
1 the abyss
1 Crucible of worlds
3 ensnaring bridge
3 pithing needle
-1 sinkhole, + 1 hymn to tourach..Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostfire86
but that's just me..
the singleton entomb feels a bit lackluster too, i think you're better of with a more high-impact card like a tombstalker(a must-answer threat), night of soul's betrayal(gives virtual card advantage by making their 1/1 critters dead draws), or perhaps the 3rd cursed scroll, etc..
and 3 ensnaring bridges seems like a lot, 2 seems fine..use that as a flex spot for cards like trinisphere, etc..
the rest of the list looks good though..
-Bojuka bog. Should only be played with crop rotation.