[Deck] Solidarity

I played in a 84-man tournament and finished 13th (tiebreakers show a 0.0x difference between places 9-13, so I rather think of it as 9th ;) ). This was my first time playing this deck outside the kitchen table, so a few errors were made.

Here's my decklist:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
11 Island

4 High Tide
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Reset
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
3 Opt
3 Turnabout
2 Flash of Insight
2 Remand
2 Brain Freeze
2 Peer Through Depths
1 Cryptic Command

Wishboard:

2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Meditate
1 Remand
1 Turnabout
1 Repeal
1 Brain Freeze
1 Vision Skeins
1 Dispel
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Rebuild
1 Hibernation

Few notices:

I never mulligan, though once I probably should have. I still managed to find my second land via brainstorm after fetching. Traps were awesome, at least in that meta, where combo was prevalent and aggro was absent. I'll definitely add a third one.
Cryptic Command was quite useless.
Peer's were excellent. I think it's quite irrelevant if I reveal a card or two to my opponent.
Skeins was excellent. I found myself a couple of times a bit short of mana, so I had to rely on it. Dispel was also good to wish for when needed.

I had no idea how to sideboard, so I mostly changed - opt + hibernation/remand/trap between games. Worked out quite well apparently.

Long story short:

Match 1 Merfolk

He aggroed on me, before I even had a remote chance of comboing. Game 2 he counters everything. Bad start.

0-1

Match 2 New Horizons

I combo through his stifles and force of wills. Game 2 I counter his Knight and after emptying my grave 'cos of Flash, he drops 1/1 Terravore. I combo, but couldn't get enough backup mana, to wish Stroke/Skeins so his Terravore grew. Luckily he was too bored of my Solitaire, so he scooped. Afterwards I poured some salt on him and told him, he could have won if he had attacked.

1-1

Match 3 Belcher

Quite easy MU imo. He does his combo on 1st turn, I had no forces in my hand and my brainstorm doesn't reveal anything helpful. 10 tokens rush me before I find enough mana to wish Echoing Truth. Game 2 I counter everything and after a dozen turns I finally find some draw-cards and combo. Third game is quite much the same.

I made a mistake siding in both Mindbreaks, luckily I drew to them.

2-1

Match 4 Domain Zoo

This should have been a piece of cake. Game 1 I combo. Game 2 he seizes my High Tide and I couldn't find another. Game 3 I fizzle in the middle of my combo after my Impulse and Meditate drew blanks and flashbacked Insight shows no Resets or Turnabouts. Only time I fizzled :(

2-2

Match 5 IDK

I have no idea what it was. Somekind of homebrew that had Kokusho, Birds and Murderous Redcaps. I combo with ease.

3-2

Match 6 Ad Nauseam

Game 1 he does his combo. Game 2 I cover my comboparts with Brainstorm in response to his Duress and combo in response to his Infernal tutor later on. 39 cards were enough, as his Wishes and Tendrils were milled. Game 3 I combo afterwards when he duresses my Remand and Impulse away instead of High Tide and Reset.

4-2

Match 7 Enchantress

This MU is a bye. I combo with easy until a bystander notices that I've had played my italian Reset in my opponents upkeep. I already had played a number of spells after that though, so I get a warning. I was so excited of this quite easy MU so much, that I thought it was his draw step. A bit shamed of my stupidity I finish the combo quickly. Game 2 I combo as normal, though I end up almost fizzling as my Meditate draws blanks and I have to wish Stroke, play it for six and freeze 39 cards from his library. Apparently it was enough as he had only 43 card left.

5-2

The deck worked like a charm and was incredibly fun to play, though it requires a bit of changing as it wasn't perfect. I found myself wanting to wish into High Tide as it was earlier in my wishboard, but it worked quite well here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minkkiq

I combo through his stifles and force of wills. Game 2 I counter his Knight and after emptying my grave 'cos of Flash, he drops 1/1 Terravore.

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Flash of Insight only remove Blue cards from your graveyard. Be carefull with that.

Nice tournament report, and congratualatons on your finish.

Did you find that 8 fetches were too much life loss? Do you think Cryptic would have been more useful if you had faced some real aggro?

-Silent Requiem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Flash of Insight only remove Blue cards from your graveyard. Be carefull with that.

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My bad, forgot to mention in my brief report that it was my opponent who exiled my grave. He had played Tormod's Crypt earlier. So at least I didn't do so such severe mistakes :P

Silent Requiem:

No, after a quite a lot of goldfishing I came to conclusion that the difference in lifeloss between 6 or 8 fetches is very slim. I'm not good at math but I figured that you'd fetch approx. 2-3 times mostly before comboing. Against burn fetching might have been problematic, but in most cases you just don't care about your lifetotal. I do realize that adding fetches up to 8 doesn't actually thin the deck much more than 6 does (also related to maths. I don't understand how it works, but I'll just accept what ppl wiser than me say about such things). I just like shuffling. It gives me time to think and to do something with my hands. Cryptic might have been better if there had been a more straightforward aggro-mu, but as I've played only a little in tournaments with this deck, I really can't tell. I never cast it. I'll probably still keep it in main and test it further in future tournaments just to be sure unless I come up with something better.

Just before the tournament I was thinking of playing Hunting Packs in my wishlist and Tropical Islands, but my friends bashed that idea and refused to lend me duals. Might have been for the best...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vacrix

EDIT:
To some extent, I agree with what Seraphus is saying. We should discuss the differences between the cards and their synergies to determine when is the best time to play what. Why play Impulse on turn 2 instead of PtD? What are the qualifiers? What are you doing on turn 3? Turn 4? etc. We don't necessarily need to limit it to a mono-U discussion though. We can incorporate green splash lines of play into the discussion as normal. They don't have to be separated or condemned. Even green splash lines of play contribute to the body of knowledge on Solidarity, whether or not you agree with the splash, Seraphus. Further, we are the only active forum I know of that discusses this deck. Its best that we cover all our bases and not limit ourselves to the conventional shell when we are some of the only innovators of this deck.

Why don't we present and discuss scenarios? In doing so we can discover alternative lines of play by sharing perspectives. Thats what message boards are for after all.

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Thank you your two answers are amazing, and i might admit that i over react to the color thing but the thing is we never discuss play we always discuss cards but never how to play them! However i still like mono-u, i already found myself (in a very clouded day so i was close at home between studding and my solidarity deck lol) thinking about change my deck to hunting pack version... Beside all this i'll keep what i was saying solidarity is hard to play (again good luck to the nobel), and deckbuilding is for someone who fully understand the why of the deck and card and field! There's no shame on starting from the start...


Btw about cards since i start to play with Accumulated Knowledge gives me the advantaged of turn 3 combo... give it a try... ;)

Vacrix thanks for saying that i win with the deck but still i want that we all show the world why this deck is good! As my wining thing i don't really win much since it's allways an top 4 or top 5 place (this may not be understand by a non Portuguese player because we played like hell but as the store owners here are a little shortsighted we never had an top 8 round - they say it takes to long - and we always end up the tournaments tide in results from the first place to the 5th place - it's demotivating always losing to the op % win)

Btw my stupid 5th (frustrating 5th place as i already describe why)

This Time no Videos for me but i must add a detail: the zoo player from the frist video was the guy that beat me (i ended up 5-1) because the guy used 4 cannonist and 4 scald! And t the end of the game the guy tells me: you know, i just put the 4 scalds on my deck to deal with you since last two tournaments i only lose to you!

After that little speech a try to choke him (and it wasn't by playing the card, choke, it was by grabbing his neck) ! -.-' LOL

http://www.magictuga.com/topico.asp?topico=104336

Regarding Accumulated Knowledge, I have had some thoughts into including theese to get card advantage. What does your build look like with theese?

Have you tried any other cards for card advantage?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

Thank you your two answers are amazing, and i might admit that i over react to the color thing but the thing is we never discuss play we always discuss cards but never how to play them! However i still like mono-u, i already found myself (in a very clouded day so i was close at home between studding and my solidarity deck lol) thinking about change my deck to hunting pack version... Beside all this i'll keep what i was saying solidarity is hard to play (again good luck to the nobel), and deckbuilding is for someone who fully understand the why of the deck and card and field! There's no shame on starting from the start...


Btw about cards since i start to play with Accumulated Knowledge gives me the advantaged of turn 3 combo... give it a try... ;)

Vacrix thanks for saying that i win with the deck but still i want that we all show the world why this deck is good! As my wining thing i don't really win much since it's allways an top 4 or top 5 place (this may not be understand by a non Portuguese player because we played like hell but as the store owners here are a little shortsighted we never had an top 8 round - they say it takes to long - and we always end up the tournaments tide in results from the first place to the 5th place - it's demotivating always losing to the op % win)

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Accumulated Knowledge was part of the original deck, but it was eventually discarded as innefficient. If you are not running FoI (one of our sources of card advantage) then AK might be worthwhile. I don't really see it being worthwhile until Frantic Search is unbanned, though.

-Silent Requiem

I see. I was just curious on the build Seraphus tested with when he have tried AK

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

Accumulated Knowledge was part of the original deck, but it was eventually discarded as innefficient. If you are not running FoI (one of our sources of card advantage) then AK might be worthwhile. I don't really see it being worthwhile until Frantic Search is unbanned, though.

-Silent Requiem

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AK makes fizzle combo faster, it increases your chances of a turn 3 combo, and makes meditate less important, although i would play ANT...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

4 scald!

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Can't we combo off trough Scald?
I mean, we tap our lands, Scald's trigger goes to the stack, and we respond them casting our business/untaps. We just need to kill them without letting the trigger resolve... right?

I've never had to play against it, but that seems right. Would sting a little in the pre-combo turns, but I'd rather see Scald than Pyrostatic Pillar.

-Silent Requiem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

I've never had to play against it, but that seems right. Would sting a little in the pre-combo turns, but I'd rather see Scald than Pyrostatic Pillar.

-Silent Requiem

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Scald is better than pillar, scald puts multiple triggers on stack when your comboing, when combined with fast creatures and burn is impossible for fizzle combo to survive it...

But theres a card that kills fizzle combo way better than scald or pillar... SIROCCO...

They both put multiple triggers on the stack, but Scald's triggers are avoidable triggers. We don't need to let a single one of those triggers resolve. There is no playing around Pyrostatic Pillar, however, because the card triggers from the spell, not the land being tapped. If we want the spell, we have to take the damage.

-Silent Requiem

PS. Do you mean to be insulting by repeatedly using the term "fizzle combo", or is this an ESL issue?

Seraphus,

I was looking at your deck-list on magictuga and was wondering how exactly you were sideboarding, perhaps you already posted that somewhere but i dont see it ????? thanks

@ Silent Requiem. Don't feed the trolls. We obviously know better than Catitas. Its a cakewalk bouncing only one piece of hate with Repeal. Besides, cards like Sirocco and Scald have little application against any other decks. Pyrostatic Pillar is a good piece of hate but most storm decks have plans to answer it or the speed to race it. Post-Ad Nausuem, ANT and TES can bounce Pillar. DDFT has an easy time playing around it while SI and Belcher can race Pillar easily, as the decks that play it lack blue.

Also, the more I look at Spell Snare post-board, the more I like it. Almost every piece of perma storm hate has a CC of 2. Thorn, Bears, Pillar, CB, etc. Who has played it and how well did it work?



Also, we have discussed AK quite a lot. Unless you have quite a few discard effects, its an overcosted cantrip before the combo turn, and at best its a 1U for 4 cards, while Three Wishes gives you a comfortable inbetween at 1UU for 3. The problem with AK is that you are only going to want to play them DURING the combo turn, instead of BEFORE the combo turn to setup. This is because you don't want to be cycling on turn 2-4 with Solidarity, ever, when you could be playing better cards like Impulse and PtD and grab something useful for the combo... instead of drawing one card so taht you have a half decent business spell later on. Maybe if we played something like
4 AK
4 FoI
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Frantic Search

THEN we could play it fairly easily... and we ought to play something like this because it takes full advantage of the discard effects. Discarding FoI's and AK's is a good thing so even if you are cycling through 5 cards at the expense of one, as long as those cards go to your grave, you aren't really losing that much because you can still play FoI from the yard, and you can probably Wish for AK if you need a cheap business spell. Even so, its opening us up quite a bit to graveyard hate. We want the opponent to have as few cards as possible that can actually interact with us. So when people bitch about Wasteland on Trop... you are actually saying you don't want your opponent's Wasteland to be more than T: Add 1 colorless. When you say you want to play cards like FoI and AK, you are saying that you want your opponent's Crypts and Relics to be silver bullets when quite a few of your business spells need a heavy graveyard to be effective.
So I disagree with this approach completely, at least until we have access to FS, and then I'm willing to explore this route. Otherwise, its just opening us up to hate unnecessarily.

EDIT:
One more thing on Three Wishes vs. AK's.
I think its clear that nobody is going to play these before the combo turn because the opportunity cost of not playing something else is too high. Given that, this is what the stats look like for both cards:
AK
1U for 1
1U for 2
1U for 3
1U for 4
Total:
4-UUUU (8) for 10 cards

Three Wishes
4(1UU for 3)
Total:
4-UUUU-UUUU (12) for 12 cards

VS.

Meditate
4(2U for 4)
Total:
8-UUUU (12) for 16

At the cost of UUUU more, you get 2 extra cards, without opening yourself to graveyard hate. Post-combo, we usually have plenty of mana to spend on whatever the fuck. The problem is getting to the point at which we can start manipulating the stack. Also, AK's are inter-dependent, ie. you need to find more for any of them to be truly useful (or MORE useful than another business spell). Further, they get stronger the more you find, so initially, they are extremely bad (1U for 1!?) and you will have little chance of using them as a business spell to find more AK's or Meditates. If you have 2 AK's in hand, you are drawing 3 cards for 4 mana. I think its much stronger just to draw 3 cards for 3 mana with Three Wishes, and save one mana. By the way, this costs only one card, not 2, so you are effectively only getting +1 CA from 2 AK's, versus +2 CA from only 1 Three Wishes.

IN the long run, AK is obviously a better investment (in terms of mana to draw power) because you get +6 CA for 8, versus +8 CA for 12, especially if you play Twincast (but thats overkill and you probably already won anyway). But the problem we have is the short run, the initial burst into the combo turn. The first business spell is FAR more crucial than the last. I would rather play Three Wishes because its safer and closer to what Meditate does, emphasizing consistency. Even if we could guarantee having 3 AK's in hand, thats still +3 CA for 6 mana, while 2 Three Wishes for 6 mana gets you +4 CA.

Do you see my point, Seraphus? AK might up your turn 3 kills a little bit, but if you are trying to add more lucrative business spells, Three Wishes is certainly better than AK. Do you have any counterpoints that I haven't mentioned already?



Also, its a little farfetched, but has anyone considered post-board Xantid Swarm in the green splash? NOBODY will expect us to play something like that post-board. Its a non-instant, but our entire deck is comprised of instants so its unlikely the opponent will leave in his creature removal when he can safely board in his graveyard hate in its place, knowing full well that Solidarity doesn't play creatures.

as the matter of scald: the strategy you mention is difficult to execute because you really need to kill with stroke wich vs zoo might not be a good plan, beside that the strategy is good and i didn't remember it while playing! damm i'm not perfect! LOL

Finally some plays discussion! yay!

As the matter of my sb plans:

normally is vs aggro (and including merfolks) -4 fow +2 snap +1 E. Truth +1 chain of vapor

vs non balance decks: +2 dispel +2 M trap -2 fow -2 repeal, in case of meddling mage -4 fow, in case of extirpate -1 high tide - 2 repeal - 1 fow

vs balanced decks: -1 high tide -1 impulse -1 remand -1 FoI, + 2 M trap +2 dispel

vs dredge: sometimes depends on my intuition but is foi for echoing

Junk and discard decks: equal to aggro plan

Mono red burn: -2 foi -2 impulse -1 cunning +2 snap +1 chain of vapor +1 Echoing t. +1 dispel (boros or burn sometimes i sb out something to fit the second dispel)


... i don't remeber more relevant matches but ask and i gladly answer it ;)


Just to clarify the last tournament version isn't my actual version since i start to use redirect instead of dispel in sb and 4 Accumulated knowledge instead of 1 opt 2 impulse and 1 FoI.

Why would you cut Impulse for AK? Impulse is one of the best cards in the deck and AK is outdated tech. In the initial turns of the game, AK and Impulse both produce 0 CA, each replacing itself with something off the top of the deck. The difference is that Impulse can dig 4 cards deep to find something good, instead of trusting to Lady Luck to give you something good. When you play something like AK you are sabotaging your deck design by giving yourself fewer decisions. Impulse allows you to plan for the turns ahead. Further, Impulse can grab FoW (or Trap post-board) against fast combo and Impulse has a very sick interaction with BS. I like Impulse so much that I just had to play Peer Through Depths, which is arguably better in some respects.

Seraphus, if AK is in fact as good as you say, would you mind posting some sample goldfish hands so we can see what you are talking about? I really can't see it man.

@AK: Can't see it being good... even Words of Wisdom would be better I guess...

@Seraphus SB'ing: Isn't FoI very good against CB? High cc card that provide card advantage seems good...

@Xantid Swarm: The problem is that it is a card that serves only to protect our combo (much like Veil), where MB Trap is very good against combo, and sometimes many other decks.
Also: Jace can bouce it, and Coralhelm Commander can block it...
But if you test it, let me know.

@Spell Snare: I'm running 3 maindeck. Just that good right now.

Vacrix, i didn't lose all impulse i still have 2 copies of it... the difference i noted when playing with it is that after the first AK the ca advantaged is amazing and still you can have a great synergy between brainstorm since fetch and brainstorm and AK gives you more choice of get rid of "unwanted" cards it's just a question of adapting the way of play... Big difference is that the turn 3 combo is very plausible (only if you play on turn 2 a AK) and vs discard (that is a good macth but still tight) is amazing, the counterwar is easy because the regain of cards is also amazing without losing a turn, adding this to meditate and reset is amazing the turn 3 combo if you op help you by playing more than 1 spell...

Still i admit that the AK represents some fragile points regarding grave hate...

However the necessity of t3 combo isn´t the objective of the deck, the objective is slowing down your op without losing power- thats the why i first decide to introduce the repeal maindeck and not give up the remand (not to mention in the other options remand give us). but still the deck improves with the use of AK in some points in creates some problems with it...

Sorry but i can't show you hand samples it takes too long loool... But i hope that next week i can make a good report of my victory =P