[Deck] Affinity

Okay, some changes to my main board before questions and/or comments:

-4 Ornithopters and +4 Frogmites. This was inspired by playing Vintage Affinity for the first time, which does not thopters. I know, I know, two different formats, but I figured it was worth trying out, and after my tournament today, I wasn't really disappointed. I think the possible evasion is worth trading for the increased aggression. It also means I can attack into Deathrite, SF, etc.

-4 Vault Skirges and +4 Signal Pest. After thinking about it, I don't like this change. The Pests didn't really do much today that a Vault Skirge couldn't have done, so I'm going back to the Skirge.

1 Ancient Tomb, -1 Academy Ruins, -1 Tezzeret, +3 Revoker. Yes, main board Revoker. Because it's just so versatile. And game one against Esperblade, it was nice to effectively make the Batterskull in his hand a dead card after he fetched it, when I played the Revoker naming SF. And then I played mine, got a Fire and Ice, and promptly beat him in the face with it, because I could still hard cast my equipment.

Which leads me to my last mb change, -1 Jitte for +1 Fire and Ice. Not disappointed about this at all. This is a definite change.

Only thing I changed in sb was -1 Tidehollow Sculler for +1 Manriki Gusari. Which is also really good, so I'm sticking with that, too.

I went 2-4 today, but considering my losses were: Dark Depths, Elves, Sneak and Show, and Maverick (which in game 3 I had to mull to 5), I'm not terribly disappointed with that. And after figuring out that my deck had nothing to interact with that freaking Marit Lage token, I think Shawon's right in that Dispatch is worth trying again, so I'm going to dump the Persecutions and put in Dispatches, instead. Otherwise, the only way I could stop was to outrace him, which I did game two, but then he turn 2'd a Knight game three, and, well, then a 20/20 indestructible happened.

What are thoughts on Grafdigger's Cage vs. Rest in Peace? I really like that RiP takes care of Deathrite and Goyf, which are relevant, but I guess if I'm going back to Dispatch, that can get it, too. My friend also pointed out that Cage kills Elves, too. Right now, I was preferring RiP because it was much more crippling, and even if the opponent got rid of it, in most cases, they have to start over (Goyf, Knight, Dredge, Reanimator, etc.). Why are you running Cage over RiP, Shawon?

Against the Sneak and Show, I noticed that I definitely didn't bring in as much sideboard hate as I would have liked, so that's something else I want to revisit.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to test as much today as I would have liked, because most of the match-ups were such out of our favor, anyway.

I was going to write two tournament reports after playing in two big-prize events this weekend, but I went 1-2 drop today at the SCG Super IQ since X-2 denies top 8 (and prizes only go to top 8, Swiss = 5). I got little sleep the night before, and I just wasn't feeling confident at all with myself, not specifically with my decklist. I threw away the first game against Esperblade and I got crushed in game 2, so it went downhill from there. I did beat USA Delver though.

But yesterday, I finished in 2nd place at Ice Import's Foil Fiesta, and won a foil FTV Jace :cool:

I kinda blacked out on all the match details, but I'll give a quick rundown. List first:

Mana
16 Artifact Lands
8 Drum/Opal
1 Mantle

Creatures
8 Cheeri0s
4 Ravager
4 Champ
4 SFM
3 Skirge

Business
4 TC
4 Plating
3 Tezz
1 Jitte

SB
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cage
3 Revoker
2 Specter's Shroud
2 Dispatch
1 Karakas

Obviously I made some last-minute changes to the list I said was going to bring. Made room for 1 SB slot by moving 3rd Tezz MD, cutting Inkmoths and upping Skirges to 3. Fit in the 2nd Shroud, not because I needed that exact card, but just to fill up the anti-combo suite. Also, I switched a Dispatch into a Karakas to have overlapping applicability towards Sneak-Show.

Round 1: Jeremiah (Rock Lee) - CLOUDPOST

Well, I have been testing against Cloudpost for a month now, so what better timing to determine the fruits of my labor than to face what's probably my worst competitive matchup in the very first round, right? Except I never found out. In cosmic irony, I ended up WINNING with just nuts draws (I can't remember if we did two or three games). I'll take any win I can get though, and you will see that later on in my semifinal match. We did play a post-board for funsies, and I still lost after I nabbed his Top with Thoughtseize (he ripped another one).

Round 2: Jonathan - Shardless BUG

Game 1: Steam roll.
Game 2: I walked into Golgari Charm, only losing 2 Skirges. However, he had two Pithing Needle the whole time, one naming Plating, and the other naming Tezz after I cast mine and subsequently +1'd.
Game 3: I win on a mulligan to 5, and at one point he Cascades into Golgari Charm at the wrong time (only has X/2s, 1 Champ and 1 SFM).

Round 3: Mike (rockout) - Sneak & Show

Game 1: We had some good talks about the good old days in one of the archived(?) Landstill threads. Anyway, he's Sneak-Show, so naturally I lose.
Game 2: I turn 1 Thoughtseize and his hand was IIRC <2xAncientTomb, 1 Ponder, 2xPetal, 1 Griselbrand, blank or maybe just 6> and I choose to nab Sneak Attack. It doesn't matter as I durdle and he drops Show and Tell.

Round 4: Eric (rockout's friend)- Deathblade

Game 1: I keep a NO-LAND hand against Deathblade LOL. And I win.
Game 2: I think I double-mulliganed, and he took over.
Game 3: His first four land drops were: Swamp -> Academy Ruins -> Plains -> Tundra. He flips Supreme Verdict off of Confidant, and says that he would have been safer if he didn't flip Verdict off of Confidant, before realizing he couldn't even cast Verdict that turn.

I'm going to make a habit of taking down notes, because by now I have forgotten most of the details. However, that match was yet one of many examples where Paradise Mantle needs to be taken out post-board against grindy decks. Having the SB Batterskull definitely would have helped in those cases

Round 5: ID against Neil (BGx control variant)

Top 8:

Quarterfinals: Harlan (Jund)

Match: Everyone knows how brutal Punishing Fire is. Only important detail is Tezzeret targeting Darksteel Citadel >>>>> Jund + Punishing Fire.


Semifinals: Miracles (can't remember name, hey I met a LOT of people this weekend)

Game 1: I win with Tezz.
Game 2: I brick a lot. And I mulliganed. I ended up trying this SB strategy: -3 Skirge +3 Revoker, and it was surprisingly significant, despite my opponent using his STP to remove my Revoker to Helm FTW.
Game 3: He made a punt that costed him the finals, that's all I will say.

Finals: Brent (MiracleBlaaaaaadddeee)

Game 1: Crushes me, but we went back and forth for a while.
Game 2: Crushes me. Probably made a mistake here and there, but honestly, I believe that I have to routinely test and keep my playskill sharp against Miracles in order to make sure I can confidently win the matchup.

Notes:

- 1 SB Batterskull is needed, or optionally 4th Tezzeret or Academy Ruins, so that I can SB Paradise Mantle out in grindy long games.

- In sideboarding, I'm thinking that Vault Skirge is also okay to take out post-board for Revoker in certain fair matchups, like Miracles.

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Originally Posted by Draconicsteel

I went 2-4 today, but considering my losses were: Dark Depths, Elves, Sneak and Show, and Maverick (which in game 3 I had to mull to 5), I'm not terribly disappointed with that. And after figuring out that my deck had nothing to interact with that freaking Marit Lage token, I think Shawon's right in that Dispatch is worth trying again, so I'm going to dump the Persecutions and put in Dispatches, instead. Otherwise, the only way I could stop was to outrace him, which I did game two, but then he turn 2'd a Knight game three, and, well, then a 20/20 indestructible happened.

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Ensnaring Bridge is another option, one that has overlap against Sneak & Show as well as Elves. For the tourney today (not yesterday), I ran the SB Ensnaring Bridge, but I never got to use them.

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What are thoughts on Grafdigger's Cage vs. Rest in Peace? I really like that RiP takes care of Deathrite and Goyf, which are relevant, but I guess if I'm going back to Dispatch, that can get it, too. My friend also pointed out that Cage kills Elves, too. Right now, I was preferring RiP because it was much more crippling, and even if the opponent got rid of it, in most cases, they have to start over (Goyf, Knight, Dredge, Reanimator, etc.). Why are you running Cage over RiP, Shawon?

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I'd rather just go aggro than try to run Rest in Peace against fair decks. I use Cage strictly against select combo decks.

Here’s the deal, I want to enter my first ever legacy tourney. I’m going in blind never having played at this location ever or at any other for that matter!

I’m leaning toward these 75 based on what I read here and personal preferences:



Creature (25)
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Etched Champion
3x Master of Etherium
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Vault Skirge

Artifact (11)
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
2x Springleaf Drum
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtcast

Planeswalker (3)
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Land (17)
2x Ancient Tomb
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
Sideboard (15)
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Pithing Needle
1x Tormod's Crypt




It is open for discussion and I welcome suggestions and questions.

Now, the really hard part for me is sideboarding since I have next to zero experience with that. My basic sideboard plan as you can tell is to switch to “chalice @ 1” game 2 by removing mystics and jitte.

Wanting to have a better plan than that, I went to the source and took the list of decks to beat (below).

If you guys would be so kind to tell me your strategies to as many decks as you can I’d be extremely grateful. Particularly on what to take out, since what to bring in I have a decent idea.

Here are the DTBs with my noob plans:

Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
chalice@1 plan

Blade Control
+3 cabal therapy, +2 pithing needle, -4 ravager, -1 Master

Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)
+3 cabal therapy, -3 Tezzeret

DeathBlade
+3 cabal therapy, -3 Tezzeret

Elves!
chalice@1 plan

Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
+2 Pithing Needle, +3 O-ring, -3 Tezzeret, -2 Master

Jund
+3 cabal therapy, -3 vault Skirge

Death and Taxes
+3 o-ring , +3 cabal therapy, -3 master, -3 Tezzeret

Sneak and Show
+3 o-ring , +3 cabal therapy, -3 master, -3 Tezzeret

Miracle Control
+2 Pithing Neddle, +3 o-ring, -3 Skirge, -2 ravager (or chalice plan? )

UWR Delver
Chalice@1 plan

BUG "Shardless" Control
+3 cabal therapy, -3 stoneforge

ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Chalice@1 plan

GW/x Maverick
chalice@1 plan


Thanks a bunch !!!

Your list could use a lot of work, but honestly, your wins with the deck come from how you play the deck, not what's inside it. Just try to play to your best capability. I haven't tried this myself, but another poster said that Gitaxian Probe was a really good card for them when they were playing the deck for the first time. It could work for you, because having information on your opponents hand or gameplan can give you an idea of how aggressive you want to be with cards like Arcbound Ravager, or simply find out if your opponent has Daze. Not to mention, Gitaxian Probe is practically a combo with Cabal Therapy. I think it wouldn't be a bad card for you to use in your first Legacy tournament.

As for sideboarding the best place to start understanding, and by the way this is something I'm still struggling with, is knowing what to take out. I'll stick to just telling you what cards are weak in each matchup rather than tell you what to put in. But, I think if you are going to run Ancient Tombs and Glimmervoids, you might be better off with Rest in Peace as your graveyard hate of choice over the other choices, because if you are going to bring in cards for fair matchups like Jund, Rest in Peace is a more unilateral SB card against those matchups and of course relevant against dedicated graveyard decks.

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Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
chalice@1 plan

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Take out Tezzs and Jitte for the Chalices. However, 1 Tezz is fine postboard.

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Blade Control
+3 cabal therapy, +2 pithing needle, -4 ravager, -1 Master

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You're removing 5 creatures for 5 noncreatures. This will make your deck less likely to kill the opponent. The first card I would take out, which I just learned this weekend, is Vault Skirge. Lingering Souls, Jitte, Zealous Persecution, make Vault Skirge a dead card in the matchup.

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Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)
+3 cabal therapy, -3 Tezzeret

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If you ran Rest in Peace, you could take out the Tezzs to put them in. It's up to you what you run.

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DeathBlade
+3 cabal therapy, -3 Tezzeret

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Tezzeret is NOT something you want to take out. It's card advantage. Cabal Therapy is nice if you open with it on turn 1-2, but games against these type of decks go into topdecking wars, and Cabal Therapy is quite useless when both players are in topdeck mode.

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Elves!
chalice@1 plan

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Probably take out the Tezzs/Champs.

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Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
+2 Pithing Needle, +3 O-ring, -3 Tezzeret, -2 Master

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Taking out Tezz is insane, and Cabal Therapy is probably better than O-Ring. You can take out Memnites since you don't care about speed and you want to limit your vulnerability to Pernicious Deed.

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Jund
+3 cabal therapy, -3 vault Skirge

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You don't need Cabal Therapy. Rest in Peace could be good here.

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Death and Taxes
+3 o-ring , +3 cabal therapy, -3 master, -3 Tezzeret

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Don't take out Masters.

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Miracle Control
+2 Pithing Neddle, +3 o-ring, -3 Skirge, -2 ravager (or chalice plan? )

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Chalice isn't bad.

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UWR Delver
Chalice@1 plan

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Sounds good. Take out Tezz.

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BUG "Shardless" Control
+3 cabal therapy, -3 stoneforge

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Take out Vault Skirge, not Stoneforge Mystic. SFM is card advantage.

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ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Chalice@1 plan

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Take out Etched Champions

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GW/x Maverick
chalice@1 plan

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Don't take anything out. If they are leaning hard on the Scryb Ranger + Jitte plan, then you can bring in Pithing Needles.



Good luck. Let us know how it goes!

Thank you for all the advice ! I'll let you know what happened for sure !

I'm not really a fan of Glimmervoid in Legacy, but there have been a few other people on here running it. Since you're running SFM main, I'd prefer going Ancient Den, instead, but that's just me. It helps hit the metalcraft for Mox turn one, and there's no auto-destruct. I'd do 4 Den and go down to three Citadel.

I tried out three Detention Sphere originally when I first got into it, and the only reason I dropped it was because I thought there were better options, or more versatile options, not because I was particularly disappointed in the card itself. D Sphere has the additional advantage, though, of being able to get rid of all those Empty the Warrens tokens.

I would also highly recommend some Ethersworn Canonists sideboard. Our deck is just too weak against combo, and Canonist essentially means they can't win until they've dealt with it.

Interesting strategy on varying up your gy hate. I'm curious to see what you think of that after the tournament.

Good luck! Good to see a new Affinity player.

Hi guys, I'll be starting this deck, as I've always enjoyed affinity in modern, and this deck seems interesting and fun. I've been testing online quite a bit, and I'll have my paper deck done soon, so ill be stopping here to discuss strategy. :smile:

I was asking advice to go to my first legacy tourney and here is how it went down.

Out of 18 players, I finished 17 and went 1-4. I attribute it to lack of skill on my part as the main reason, the second reason was I didn’t exactly have the deck I wanted (I couldn’t get the other 2 springleaf drums I wanted), and the third reason is, of course, bad luck.

This is the decklist I actually played

4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
3x Ancient Den
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Glimmervoid
2x Ancient Tomb

4x Ravager
4x Champion
4x ornithopter
4x memnite
3x vault skirge
3x master of etherium
3x stoneforge mystic
4x cranial platting
4x thoughtcast
4x mox opal
2x springleaf drum
1x Jitte

3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Sideboard

4x Chalice of the void
3x Rest in Peace
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Oblivion ring
2x Pithing needle

Match 1: Was up against some weird BW deck with Sorin, Lingering souls, discard, pox and trinisphere.
Game one had a so so hand and kept. He proceeded to discard me a ton of cards and beat me. Game two, SB: -3 Vault Skirge -1 ravager, +4 chalice, crappy hand, mulled to six, crappy hand again and kept. Lost.

Match 2: Jund. I start a game ahead because my opponent had a deck list error.
Game one, crappy hand, mull, good hand. Beat him fast with plating on Skirge racing two gyofs. My only win of the day…

Match 3: Esperblade (UWB goodstuffs)
Game one, he has discard and wasteland, brings out a jitte, but I manage to rip an opal of the top of the library and land a ravager to counter his jitte while I beat him into a pulp with skirge to race his TNN. Game two, sideboarded wrong: -3 Tezz -1 Master, +4 Chalice. Then made the misplay of the day by attacking into a Strix and not realizing he has deathtouch after I tranfered ravager counters onto my creature, down hill from there and lost. Game three, -1 Master, +1 O-ring in adition. Couldn’t do much he had a great hand with StP to respond to my chalice@1 and everything good and timely flowing into his hand, engineered explosives galore. Could have won it if I didn’t screw up royaly game two even though it is not a favorable match up.

Match 4: Ad Nauseaum Storm Combo.
Game one I proceed to dispense beatings, he tries to go off but it’s not enough. Game 2, sideboard: -3 tezz -1 Master, +4 chalice. He starts, combos and I die. Turn one kill. That’s just the nature of the game. Game 3, I start, the hand has a decent beating but no chalice. I keep, I lose. He goes off turn 2.

Match 5: Lands
Game one he has Tabernacle as the first land drop. Wastelands and ports my lands, engineered explosives says hi, takes forever but kills me with manlands. Game two, Sideboard: +3 RiP +2 Needle +3 O-Ring, -3 Tezz -4 champion -1 Master. I managed to land a needle on wasteland after mulling to six. He has a great hand again and ghost quarters me to oblivion.

What I learned ? Affinity is a mulligan intensive deck and I am not versed in the art of mulliganning. Maybe a version with pests is more consistent at dispensing beatings game one? My sideboard felt adequate were I more aggressive with the mulligans.

Don't side out Tezz against Esperblade or Lands, especially not lands. Tezz is really the only way to beat Lands. I sided sour Tezz a lot when I first started, too, but then I learned how debilitating he can be. I would recommend finding other sb options.


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Fortune has bestowed upon me once again, as I plan for another back-to-back Legacy weekend, with a 30-man tourney for $30 on the day after Valentine's, followed by the SCG Legacy Open Series in Somerset, NJ. And I just found out that the LGS with the best prize support for Legacy tournaments, Ice Imports, is hosting two consecutive tournaments next month! This spring is going to so much fun, and I can't wait until the 15th! I'm honestly glad for the first time ever to be single around Valentine's Day lol.

Anyway, I finally got around to testing Sword of Fire and Ice in lieu of the Jitte slot (aside: lol I got my hands on SoFI by trading my Jitte for it, irony!), and I have to say that I like SoFI a whole lot more than Jitte. One of my main concerns about Jitte was being unable to get any value from Equipping a 0/2 Thopter, and aside from the fact that SoFI lets you completely ignore True-Name Nemesis, another drawback from using Jitte I noticed was requiring combat damage to be dealt, which can be a compromising position to be in when you're equipping ground attackers with Jitte and your opponent has good ol' True-Name staring at you. Honestly, since running SoFI, Merfolk is starting to feel like a bye matchup, which is hilarious to me. I beat Merfolk 2-0 this week at one of my weeklies, and SoFI just crushed him.

TLDR: Run Sword of Fire and Ice in your Stoneforge package, especially in this metagame and if True-Name doesn't get banned this Monday (I'm betting, literally, that it will).

Hey guys,

Just bringing some Affinity success stories from Arizona :)

I lent my friend Affinity for my local Legacy Series that I'm running with my website. We had 57 players and he managed to Top 8 with a record of 5-0-1. Here is the decklist:

Creatures
4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
1 Phyrexian Revoker

Spells
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
3 Spell Pierce
1 Phyrexian Revoker

I can't say too much about his actual matches, but I believe this is what he faced:

Round 1 - Necrotic Ooze Reanimator - Win
Round 2 - Burn - Win
Round 3 - Death and Taxes - Draw
Round 4 - UW Stoneblade - Win
Round 5 - Affinity - Win
Round 6 - BUG Delver - Draw
Top 8 - Death and Taxes - Lose

The list is similar to what Drew Levin championed in one of his SCG articles. I liked it a whole lot, but replaced the Tundra with a Phyrexian Revoker. I liked the Revoker for Jitte as well as random critters that can cause problems for Affinity like Grim Lavamancer.

Also, my other friend managed to Top 16 the event with his own Affinity list. He started off 4-0 and would have been okay double drawing in but he was paired down (to the above Affinity played in R5), and his R6 opponent played it out :/

Creatures
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Memnite
4 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter
3 Frogmite
3 Master of Etherium

Spells
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid

Sideboard
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Winter Orb
3 Duress
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mindbreak Trap

Round 1 - Elves - Win
Round 2 - Shardless BUG - Win
Round 3 - Belcher - Win
Round 4 - Merfolk - Win
Round 5 - Affinity - Lose
Round 6 - Infect - Lose

I know some of his choices were budget-related (hence only 3 Mox Opal), but the list still seemed to perform well from what I saw.

So they went 8-3-2 on the weekend, not too bad considering they were the only two Affinity players in the room.

i wonder how frogmite performed for them, because i am testing them again right now, plus i am a bit surprised non of the two was running SFM, but signal pest in its stead
i myself have come to like signal pest more and more lately

also master of etherium is an intresting choice as i have been thinking of him lately as well, but i am surprised to see no ravager at all in the second list, plus i really dislike the glimmervoids

Glimmervoid is fine, between the creatures and the accelerants you'll rarely lose your land. That said I don't see why they don't play City of Brass, because the life loss isn't really relevant.

It's sacreligious, but I've been having a lot of success by cutting Tezzert from the MD and curving out at 3, there's just too many Spell Pierces by the time you get to cast him, if you get to cast him and Paradise Mantle is awful. I think Ravager/Disciple is enough of a combo kill, Thoughtcast is a waste of a tempo without Myr Enforcer/Frogmites and playing both Master of Etherium and Etched Champion is strong as hell. There's just nothing for them to Spell Pierce at all. Miracles seems to be at a low right now and boarding out or cutting Tezzeret and Thoughtcast makes Thalia and Thorn just kick an unbelievable amount of ass.

I still hate Vault Skirge, it's garbage without Plating/Ravager and enough cards in this deck already fall under that category.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Glimmervoid is fine, between the creatures and the accelerants you'll rarely lose your land. That said I don't see why they don't play City of Brass, because the life loss isn't really relevant.

It's sacreligious, but I've been having a lot of success by cutting Tezzert from the MD and curving out at 3, there's just too many Spell Pierces by the time you get to cast him, if you get to cast him and Paradise Mantle is awful. I think Ravager/Disciple is enough of a combo kill, Thoughtcast is a waste of a tempo without Myr Enforcer/Frogmites and playing both Master of Etherium and Etched Champion is strong as hell. There's just nothing for them to Spell Pierce at all. Miracles seems to be at a low right now and boarding out or cutting Tezzeret and Thoughtcast makes Thalia and Thorn just kick an unbelievable amount of ass.

I still hate Vault Skirge, it's garbage without Plating/Ravager and enough cards in this deck already fall under that category.

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What is the context of the success that you speak of, by the way? Because I have yet to see you report any tournament result supporting some of the "sacreligious" claims you've made. In fact, I searched through your posts on The Source out of curiosity (looking for Final Fortune + "report"), and I couldn't find anything. Before you fight fire with fire, yes, I used to theorycraft in my two years of being on this thread, and make wild claims about Affinity without any results to back them too, but since playing competitive Magic starting last summer I have learned that I can just do most of my testing at weeklies or tournaments and get more conclusive results on my testing than just going on MWS. That is why I get more irritated with people's lack of content in this thread regularly, because I am actively trying to better the deck and my performance in it, and I read comments on why Thoughtcast is bad in the deck. Come on, man.

The Spell Pierce argument is pretty bogus reasoning to take out Tezzeret entirely, because unlike Thalia + Thorn, Tezzeret has actually proven itself as a mainstay in Affinity lists. It wins games point blank period. The only decks where Spell Pierce is a problem and Tezzeret is a liability against are tempo decks, and you can just SB out Tezzeret against those decks post-board.

Also, explain to me why you want take extra turns to cast + equip Cranial Plating in game 1 with Thalias + Thorns, and why that's just better than winning with the raw power of a turn 2 Cranial Plating or casting a Turn 3 Tezzeret.

Every argument you've made against Thoughtcast is completely stupid, and I'm not going to argue with you at all on that point. It draws 2 cards for one mana. Yeah, it's a terrible card in that deck. In fact, let's make it a better card in the deck by running obsolete creatures like Frogmite and Myr Enforcer. Or just run Thalia + Thorn, I mean, look at all the results. :rolleyes:

Are you trolling, or do you actually want people to listen to you and respect your opinion? If it's the latter, I highly suggest you actually test the deck and report your results, good or bad, so that you can participate in the advancement of The Source discussion of Affinity, rather than spout backwards logic on why we should dump the best cards in the deck for unproven cards that you can't even back up. Moreover, the fact that you cherrypick the worst and most situational examples of why cards can be bad ("I lose Metalcraft with Etched Champion too many times! I'm going to cut it for Master of Etherium!") makes me question your actual understanding of Affinity, not to mention your actual experience with the deck in competitive environments.

Trolling much?

I don't bother to write tournament reports because I don't bother to attend brick and mortar tournaments, my successes and failures with Affinity are restricted to MTGO, which I do stream on Twitch, and I only play Affinity in metagames where aggro-control is dominant i.e. control is dormant so Spell Pierce does matter.

Regarding Thoughtcast, I've played with and without the card and think being threat dense is better than expending tempo on Thoughtcast vs aggro-control, because it only costs U for 2 cards when you're ahead. Once you start facing Wasteland, Rough/Tumble, Ancient Grudge, Golgari Charm, Krosan Grip etc. its difficult to get a cost effective U for 2 cards. If you grind the aggro-control match ups post-board, you'll SB out Thoughtcast to the point where you have to ask yourself why you're playing a Spell Pierce target that you SB out 2/3 games as opposed to any other card. I view Affinity very much as a meta-game deck vs aggro-control, so instead of playing a baseline of generically "good cards" I play a basline of specifically "best cards" vs the match-up I'm expecting to face. I think this is why you prefer stuff like Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus to Rest in Peace, you're trying to play Affinity as a default deck where I'm trying to play it as a meta deck whenever I get tired of playing Storm or Dredge and decie to play something fair instead. I SB Tezzeret, altho' I'm not against cutting him altogether.

I don't really get your comparison to Tezzeret and Thalia/Thorn, there are all kinds of Affinity/prison "home brew" decks out there and if Goblins has splashed /w for Thalia I don't see why Affinity can't. I guess you could categorize the deck as mono-w Stompy instead of as Affinity, but Affinity/prison "home brew" is probably no worse of a dark horse in the metagame as Affinity is.

How are Myr Enforcer and Frogmite obsolete, and how does playing Myr Enforcer and Frogmite not make Thoughtcast better? I don't know how long you've played Affinity, or if you play any other deck than Affinity, but what made Thoughtcast good wasn't U, draw 2 cards it was U, draw 2 cards and then immediately establish board position with free creatures. I've actually been thinking a lot about Myr Enforcer and Frogmite lately, because with the rise of True Name Nemesis the aggro-control decks aren't all using Tarmogoyf in order to block and kill a Myr Enforcer anymore and it trades with Batterskull. If you want to play the "this card is established in Affinity, this card is obsolete in Affinity" game then look above you at the tournament winning list from North America with Frogmite and Master of Etherium. I'm not "cherry picking" my arguments when it comes to Etched Champion, wait until you get your board cleared by Golgari Charm or Engineered Explosives, lose Metalcraft and subsequently die. Etched Champion is a good card, but it's not significantly better or worse than Master of Etherium and I constantly either go back and forth between the two or play both.

Some people are going to play Etched Champion, some people are going to play Master of Etherium, some people are going to play Signal Pest, some people are going to play Vault Scourge, some people are going to play Ancient Tomb, some people are going to play Darksteel Citadel, some people are going to play gold lands, some people are going to play Inkmoth Nexus, some people are going to play Stoneforge Mystic, some people are going to play Disciple of the Vault and that's largely because a lot of the cards are interchangeable and people are biased by their own metagames and personal experiences. I don't think that makes anyone more right or more wrong. Given the right metagame conditions, Affinity is going to rise or fall based on the saturation of aggro-control and the luck of tournament pairings. I'm pretty sure I could take a Vial Affinity list from back in 2009 and still do well enough with it in a modern, aggro-control dominated metagame.

The whole idea of "this is an established card in Affinity" just makes me laugh, Affinity is a deck played in Legacy by a handful of people when the metagame calls for it or by poor people who can't afford dual lands and want to participate in the format - I think you're the only die hard Affinity player I know of and for me it's just a question of nostalgia. If the deck was actually played in mass and really put up serious results, you might have a point. As it is Affinity is just a dark horse aggro deck with a really good game vs aggro-control compared to Zoo, which makes it situationally playable. Everybody plays Force of Will, True Name Nemesis and Rest in Peace right now fwiw, so it happens to be a good choice. If I'm playing an anti aggro-control deck, then I don't really want to play the best of the worst cards vs aggro-control in my deck. I can beat stuff like Jund/Junk etc. without Spell Pierce targets or just scratch and burn the match up and move on to the nigh infinite number of people playing Island.

You can enjoy the thread to yourself tho', you seem to prefer it that way.

Ah, so first of all, the meta on MTGO is VASTLY different than the meta with cardboard cards. So that might explain a lot of the differences we're having.

I'm fairly certain that Disciple lost popularity because of Tezzeret (though correct me if I'm wrong on that). It's simply a more stable win condition against most circumstances. That being said, if you're sticking with Disciple, it makes sense to cut the Tezz, at least out of mainboard. I haven't tried the card myself, so in all honesty I can't say how bad or good Disciple is, but I can say that I love Tezz in this deck, because his synergy and ability to single-handedly turn the game is ridiculous. I think Affinity should probably run one or the either.

Also, on Spell Pierces - it's not good against us, with or without Tezz. The same counters that get everything get Tezz, in addition. Daze and FoW are just better, so I'm not really scared of Spell Pierce. That and Daze are so easy to play around in our deck that it's laughable. The only thing to worry about is FoW, and the only thing you can do against that is bait it out, anyway. But, that might just be a difference of the meta we're facing. The other thing is that Tezz is good no matter what you have on board, while Disciple is only good paired with Ravager. And Ravager is already a high target in our deck.

I'm not sure why you would ever side out Thoughtcast. One mana for two cards is a ratio that any deck would love to have. Card advantage is HUGE, and cheap + good card advantage is ridiculous. Especially in a deck that just wants to vomit its hand on the table, once you suddenly increase that hand, its make the deck that much deadlier, which is also why I like Fire and Ice over Jitte. One of the consistent problems of aggro is running out of steam, and Thoughtcast and Fire and Ice both fix that. If an aggro deck is able to keep up the pressure even though board wipes and/or spot removal, it is significantly harder to beat. Every single time I've played Thoughtcast, my opponent has either seriously thought about countering it, or sighed in dejection and said something along the lines of, "Yeah. That happens."

I've been trying out Frogmite over Ornithopter, and I've been liking it, so I can't bash Frogmite at all. The consistent ability to attack is better than the potential evasion. You're saying you don't like Vault Skirge because it sucks without support, well, the same and moreso is true for thopter. All it is until you see Plating or Master is a 0/2 wall. Which is not impressive. (Also on the "it's garbage without Plating/Master" argument, yeah, a lot of things in the deck fall under that, but of those, Vault Skirge is probably one of the best. One mana for a lifelinker is cool, but one mana for a lifelinker and a FLYER is what's important. That's a lot of value right there.) I've been dubious about Frogmite in the past, because it seems less consistent to be able to get on the battlefield than thopter, especially with running non-artifact lands, but I think it's cheap enough that it isn't a problem. And Frogmite is less of a dead draw late game.

i really like the fact that other people are trying frogmite as well
i am currently very happy with him, exactly because he can attack for 2compared to 0 of ornithopter
the problem with frogmite is that he can only land consistently turn 1 paired with either a memnite or an ornithopter

currently i am running 61 cards (i kniw its odd, but its a habit of mine to build every deck with 61 cards, and i do not intend to change that)
what i have cut for the playset of frogmites is currently 1 ravager, 1 champion, 1 land (running only 16 currently)
i have been thinking about a certain equipment lately given i now run more ground-based-creatures is the pseudo-skullclamp that could have some effect here, because with the addition of frogmite i run a even more swarmstyled list, and there are certain to be some blocks in combat which will mostly be on frogmite or memnite, because the other swarmlings are evasive
i know that the pseudo- skullclamp has been discarded by most as not good enough, but with a more ground-based army it cound prove valuable

on the other topic going on in this thread, thoughcast is possibly the best spell in the whole deck. under no condition i would run less than 4 , plus it is not at all a tempoloss, IMO it fits the definition of tempo in this deck.
disciple is vastly inferior to tezzeret, because tezzeret can win games on his own if unanswered, disciple in my opinion is way to fragile and inconsistent
master of etherium: i have often tried this one, but most of the time he is clunky, i miss a blue mana to cast him, he gets chump-blocked for no effect and in my opinion way inferior to both champion and ravager, once you get used to ravager.

just my 2 cents

on a sidenote: please guys do not take everything personal if someone does not approve of your opinion, we talk here to make progress and not to vent your anger or whatever

EDIT: lots of mistyping, because i posted from my cell-phone

This is a random theory I had, but if the trend of affinity nowadays is Ancient Tomb to set up Chalice at 1 in the sideboard, why don't we set our decks up to do it in the first place?


4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Paradise Mantle
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

3 Oblivion Ring
3 Perish
2 Rest in Peace
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Tormod's Crypt

I would appreciate somebody testing this. I know Paradise Mantle is not that good. It probably should be Drum anyway. I also wanted to squeeze in Stoneforge, but couldn't figure out how.

I apologize if this seems too crazy.

The problem with SB cards like Ethersworn Canonist and Chalice being put in the MD is that the deck becomes less likely to win against decks in general because it won't apply as much pressure as it usually does. Add in the factor that Canonist/Chalice don't have much compounding value (there are case exceptions with Chalice). I've tried MD Canonist myself, but if it's not really impacting the game, then it's really mediocre. IMO, you want to maximize your G1 percentages against any deck in general, especially against fair decks, because most fair decks relegate their pertinent hate in their SB. Canonist and Chalice compromise this.

I always think about cutting MD Tezz, but I never do because I quickly realize over and over that he's so good at aiding your primary plan of just beating your opponent's face in, more so than any techy MD could against favorable matchups, in game 1. I mention this because that's how I feel about running hate cards MD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BBG|Scott-Spain

This is a random theory I had, but if the trend of affinity nowadays is Ancient Tomb to set up Chalice at 1 in the sideboard, why don't we set our decks up to do it in the first place?


4 Ancient Den
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
3 Paradise Mantle
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast

3 Oblivion Ring
3 Perish
2 Rest in Peace
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Tormod's Crypt

I would appreciate somebody testing this. I know Paradise Mantle is not that good. It probably should be Drum anyway. I also wanted to squeeze in Stoneforge, but couldn't figure out how.

I apologize if this seems too crazy.

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Try Tangle Wire instead of Canonist....works great in Affinity and slows opponents big time.
Tangle Wire and Chalice...ouch.