[Deck] GW/x Maverick

I'd say that whether or not you run E. Tutor is dependent on how much combo you think you will see. If there is historically a significant presence of Snapcaster decks in your meta I wouldn't worry about it too much, as they should suppress the combo decks enough that you just won't see them. However, in a large, partly unpredictable environment like a SCG Open event or Grand Prix where people will play Belcher and ANT regardless of how good they are against the field, I would play E. Tutor simply because it gives you the most options.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

I guess the reality is against both of these deck (High Tide and Hive Mind), we have so many dead cards to take out that it doesn't make sense not to board in Choke. Ruckus, using your SCGLA list against High Tide, I'm +2 Canonist, +2 Choke, +2 E Tutor, - 4 STP, - 1 Terravore (dies with Time Spiral), -1 Thrun (too slow) I would do the same against Hive Mind except +1 Metamorph/-1 Jitte. Is this what you do?

Thoughts?

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Bingo - the creature removal is dead, Jitte is dead, Thrun and sometimes Terravore are both dead. Even Batterskull is rather weak for builds that run it. This gives us 7-8 cards to bring in:

2 Choke
2 Tutor
2 Canonist
1 Thorns
(1 Metamorph/Bojuka Bog/Tormod's Crypt)

Bog can be useful vs Time Spiral and Snapcaster builds of High Tide, but at this point it's pretty much more useful of a card than Batterskull. Sometimes against these matchups I also board out a few Stoneforge Mystics too, since they have a lesser role in the matchup.

Rukcus...looks like you better keep siding in your COP: red.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Rukcus...looks like you better keep siding in your COP: red.

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I have respect for the Burns. I also really hate letting bad decks win if I can avoid it.

Hey guys, i just started to pick up this deck after some pretty good results with Death & Taxes. However, I've found Maverick to be far stronger and more consistent that D&T, and gotta say that it's probably the most fun I've had in Legacy for a long time.

That said, I'm prepping to take my deck to the Grand Prix. I was wondering if I could get some input on my current decklist:

MD:

Spells & Dudes: 37
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth Tirel

Lands: 23
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Craddle

SB:

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Terravore
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


Any ideas/suggestions would be excellent. My current conundrum is Batterskull--if it's worth keeping MD, if I should MD Feast and Famine, and if it's worth keeping in the 75 at all.

Thanks!

Swap out Tirel for Knight-Errant. EKE is far stronger in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

Hey guys, i just started to pick up this deck after some pretty good results with Death & Taxes. However, I've found Maverick to be far stronger and more consistent that D&T, and gotta say that it's probably the most fun I've had in Legacy for a long time.

That said, I'm prepping to take my deck to the Grand Prix. I was wondering if I could get some input on my current decklist:

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1. Remove BOP for a 4th NH.
2. Copy this list as close as possible with considerations for your expected meta: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=43198 Terminate = Terravore.
3. Reconsider the Enlightened Tutor sideboard. Presently, you have 2 ET targets in your sideboard (Canonist and WoSaM - you are not going to bring in ET w/ Choke because you don't want to risk a 2:1 (ET for Choke, cast, opponent Counterspells, you've missed a draw)). In your sideboard, I would -2 ET, -1 Terravore, - 1 SoFaF, + 1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Garruk Relentless (Great against Nic Fit (GB control) and other control decks).
4. I would consider moving Bojuka Bog main - right now, your only form of main deck graveyard hate is Scavenging Ooze. KotR into BB can be very good against Dredge, Reanimator and Snapcaster.
5. As Bakofried mentions, Triel should be EKE.
6. Consider Terravore and Eternal Witness in your main.
7. Consider adding the 4th MoR. It's some good against a lot of decks.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

1. Remove BOP for a 4th NH

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BoP carries a sword really well and is a good chump against Reanimator's giant flying things (and in that matchup sometimes one turn makes all the difference). I think that slot just comes down to personal preference.

So, no Maverick made top 16 in DC. Sadface.

I'm not sure how the post-DKA metagame will look like, but I suspect nothing much will change in terms of Legacy archetypes. If anything, Dredge will be running more removal but that's about it.

Therefore, I suspect the metagame for GP Indianapolis to consist of a larger contingent of Show & Tell decks to counter both Maverick and UW Blade. How could we tailor the deck to be ready against:

1) GW/(r/u) Mavericks
2) UW Stoneblade
3) Show & Tell (non-Hive Mind)

Against the first 2, I can see including 1-2 Elspeth/Garruk Relenteless in the SB to gain an advantage. I like Garruk better right now because he has more useful abilities; but I'm not discounting how Elspeth can put away games fast. The reason for it is to out-muscle the tokens, extra removal, and tutoring power.

Secondly, I think that Choke is a known entity and many players are starting to pre-emptively answer that option for us. This is where we can start to play one step ahead.

Finally, taking a page from Standard, Silhana Ledgewalker is starting to look REALLY attractive against UW blade decks.

Against the Show & Tell decks, we still run fairly well with KotR being able to tutor up Karakas. Sneak Attack is a bit trickier both for being able to haste out Emrakul as well as have option in Bloodmoon. I think Pithing Needle might be a decent catchall against the wide open metagame.

Discuss.

Silhana Ledgewalker looks pretty good. It may be worthwhile to cut a Scryb Ranger for one of those.

What is the plan against Loam decks? It seems they are starting to hybridize with Pox and Eva Green, and from the looks of the last top 16, quite a few players are going in that direction. That just seems like a terrible matchup all around.

edit: Actually, it looks like Stoneblade also got hated out entirely in DC. I wonder if this is because it wasn't heavily represented or if these hate decks completely pushed them out of contention.

No doubt about it - Peed and Pox are really difficult to fight. I'd put that matchup near 20/80, with the 20 percent chance of winning when they mulligan to 5 and start off with no black mana...

Then again, more reason to shift to Planeswalkers - they aren't affected by Deed. I've been trying something recently in SB games against Deed/Wrath decks: -2 mana dorks. It's lousy to have to commit to the battlefield more creatures than necessary to actually win. Removing them and playing a slow game is looking like a good strategy against them.

Against GB Nice-Fit/Eva Loam that's not always a tenable options due to the discard. Boarding into Loam helps in that regard.

A good "off the wall" answer to Reanimator, Loam, Snapcaster is Ground Seal. This card doesn't seem to affect us nearly at all, and it's a halfway decent E-tutor target. Unfortunately, its a stop-gap rather than a permanent solution. All three of those decks can answer it quite easily.

EDIT: Clarification - Nimble Mongoose might be good too (in place of Silhana Ledgewalker), but actual Shroud and being a 3/3 means it will never beat a Batterskull. Even if you're lucky to get Exalted triggers. Basically, evasion + shroud is really good.

I like that people are jumping on the Deed wagon. I'm a huge Deed player myself, so I'd honestly just suggest running Needle for Deed.

Loam grinds out games harder than Stoneblade can, so that's probably why it got hated out a bit. Plus, Worm Harvest is a real bitch, if you can cast it.

Assuming you guys are still running Oozes, you should be ok. Yes, I know these decks run infinite removal, but juicing their Loams with Surgicals (when you can) or Oozes helps a ton.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by rukcus

1) GW/(r/u) Mavericks
2) UW Stoneblade
3) Show & Tell (non-Hive Mind)

Against the first 2, I can see including 1-2 Elspeth/Garruk Relenteless in the SB to gain an advantage. I like Garruk better right now because he has more useful abilities; but I'm not discounting how Elspeth can put away games fast. The reason for it is to out-muscle the tokens, extra removal, and tutoring power.

Secondly, I think that Choke is a known entity and many players are starting to pre-emptively answer that option for us. This is where we can start to play one step ahead.

Finally, taking a page from Standard, Silhana Ledgewalker is starting to look REALLY attractive against UW blade decks.

Against the Show & Tell decks, we still run fairly well with KotR being able to tutor up Karakas. Sneak Attack is a bit trickier both for being able to haste out Emrakul as well as have option in Bloodmoon. I think Pithing Needle might be a decent catchall against the wide open metagame.

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I playtested GWu Maverick and I don't think it is that great of a deck. As discussed a few pages ago, if you include FOW, you need at least 14 additional blue cards and it takes away a lot of Mavericks bite. If you include Brainstorm, Geist, Clique and Jace with Spell Pierce in the board, I think this is the best build, but I still prefer red for Punishing Fire and Pyroblast.
Regarding how to beat punishing mav with a traditional mav list, it comes down to traditional mav utilizing Thrun, Terravore, Batterskull and Eternal Witness (the cards punishing mav either doesn't run or doesn't have main deck) versus punishing mav getting recurring Punishing Fire on board. I think Punishing Mav has a slight edge, but I think this match is at most 55/45.
Against Stoneblade, I think the red splash is the best bet. Punishing Mav kills SCM, SFM and Clique. Blasts stop SCM, GST and JMS. SoLaS is also solid. Jacob, I thought you said this match was "very favorable" at SCGLA. What changed?
What is the pre-emptive answer to Choke? Most UW decks don't run any enchantment hate, or they run a lone Disenchant or Krosan Grip which is reliable upon a lone Tropical Island (the finding of which Aven Mindcensor greatly reduces the odds of and which can be Wasted after 1 use).
Why Ledgewalker over Thrun? I understand Ledgewalker is quicker and can't be blocked except by creatures with flying, but I prefer a 4/4 body and the fact Thrun can be bounced with Karakas has saved me a game.
Against Sneak & Show, I like Ensnaring Bridge better than Pithing Needle. For a period, I ran both Bridge and Needle in my sb, but it was hard to find room to bring in both and Bridge seemed like it was more of a catch-all versus Reanimator and Sneak & Show. Bridge is permanent, versus Metamorph which is once and doesn't do anything against Sneak Attack. Our guys can get under bridge with the help of exhalted triggers and holding a few cards in hand, our guys can avoid blockers with MoR or protection from Equipment, and Bridge can buy us enough time to find a Karakas to bounce Emrakul or a Pridgemage for SA.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

I playtested GWu Maverick and I don't think it is that great of a deck. As discussed a few pages ago, if you include FOW, you need at least 14 additional blue cards and it takes away a lot of Mavericks bite. If you include Brainstorm, Geist, Clique and Jace with Spell Pierce in the board, I think this is the best build, but I still prefer red for Punishing Fire and Pyroblast.

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I agree regarding the blue builds. Something similar to Rynkiewicz' No-FoW build from GP Providence is what I'm referring to.

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Regarding how to beat punishing mav with a traditional mav list, it comes down to traditional mav utilizing Thrun, Terravore, Batterskull and Eternal Witness (the cards punishing mav either doesn't run or doesn't have main deck) versus punishing mav getting recurring Punishing Fire on board. I think Punishing Mav has a slight edge, but I think this match is at most 55/45.

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Punishing Fire is good at killing the small dudes; however the match still comes down to Mother of Runes and fatties. Whoever gets more StP for Knights also stays on top.

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What is the pre-emptive answer to Choke? Most UW decks don't run any enchantment hate, or they run a lone Disenchant or Krosan Grip which is reliable upon a lone Tropical Island (the finding of which Aven Mindcensor greatly reduces the odds of and which can be Wasted after 1 use).

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I still think the UW blade matchup is favorable; it's just that in the American metagame Maverick is now a known entity and people know what to expect. This means boarding into Disenchant vs Choke, and not playing into Choke by tapping out early. Furthermore, SB games get pretty difficult due to the extreme amount of 1cc removal. Landing a sizeable threat is sometimes difficult.

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Why Ledgewalker over Thrun? I understand Ledgewalker is quicker and can't be blocked except by creatures with flying, but I prefer a 4/4 body and the fact Thrun can be bounced with Karakas has saved me a game.

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I'm thinking in addition to. Thrun is awesome, but he's more often an Abyss. He has trouble connecting to deal damage. Geist of St Traft would be the best addition, but our mana can't support it easily, nor is it tutorable.

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Against Sneak & Show, I like Ensnaring Bridge better than Pithing Needle. For a period, I ran both Bridge and Needle in my sb, but it was hard to find room to bring in both and Bridge seemed like it was more of a catch-all versus Reanimator and Sneak & Show. Bridge is permanent, versus Metamorph which is once and doesn't do anything against Sneak Attack. Our guys can get under bridge with the help of exhalted triggers and holding a few cards in hand, our guys can avoid blockers with MoR or protection from Equipment, and Bridge can buy us enough time to find a Karakas to bounce Emrakul or a Pridgemage for SA.

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Seems reasonable, but a bit risky. I can see the benefits of running it against NO decks as well.

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Against Stoneblade, I think the red splash is the best bet. Punishing Mav kills SCM, SFM and Clique. Blasts stop SCM, GST and JMS. SoLaS is also solid. Jacob, I thought you said this match was "very favorable" at SCGLA. What changed?

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It just dawned on me regarding the Top 4 matchup from SCG:LA... my opponent kept in his SFM/Equipment package in. Most UW stoneblades I've played against take it out to board into Elspeth + infinite removal. I ended up losing to the Game 1 plan in Game 2, likely because my opponent accidently left in the right package. To be completely honest, I turned my brain off after Top 4 split tho, so I may have been just coasting during this match.

EDIT: I'm also considering the addition of Kavu Predator for the GW/r Maverick list. He acts the same as Terravore, and can easily race Batterskull (because he will always grow when they attack/block). Something else to consider when building your decks.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

EDIT: I'm also considering the addition of Kavu Predator for the GW/r Maverick list. He acts the same as Terravore, and can easily race Batterskull (because he will always grow when they attack/block). Something else to consider when building your decks.

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Owns the crap out of Sphinx of the Steel Wind too.

That being said, the only time I miss Goyf is when I'm playing against a tempo deck. Kavu Predator would be kind of like Goyf, except he sucks against tempo deck (but is good against a host of others). Which one would you tutor for more often? I don't think a GW/r can really fit both in, so it's kind of an either-or deal.

I would tutor for the best creature at the time. That's usually going to be KotR or Ooze. The later the game goes, the better Predator looks.

Has anyone looked into Predator Ooze??

3G

Predator Ooze is Indestructible.

Whenever Predator Ooze attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

Whenever a create dealt damage by Predator Ooze this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Predator Ooze.

1/1


I think I would include one or two in my current build. Not sure what I'd remove for it. Maybe even put it into the SB.
I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on it.

BTW Predator Ooze is from the new set, in case anyone wasn't sure.

He isn't good enough to run 4 of and he isn't as good as Terravore (the only silver bullet I could imagine him ever replacing...). He seems very slow to me and doesn't have enough synergy/utility IMO.

Just to correct the mana cost, its GGG.