[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

did some one tried this before? Call to the Netherworld?
discard using phantasmagiroan then return streetwrath or is using gitaxian probe better?

I actually ran into a similar situation a while back at a Jupiter Games event. My opponent decided to Extract my Bridges as opposed to my Griselbrand. It made no difference as I was able to turn my deck sideways and get Flayer into Troll online for the win.

It really makes no difference at that point. You're either getting a horde of hungry zombies or a flying demon that will immediately turn your deck sideways.

I just don't get why people don't use gitaxian probe.
It lead us the way towards an easy cabal therapy and it let us dredge from 3 to 6 cards.

Instead of 3 contagion and 1 sickening shoal I run 4 gitaxian, that usually go in sb for g2 and g3.

I don't run either the chancellor, my list is the same as hollywood, 3 griselbrand and 2 flayer.

My sb:
4 reverent silence
4 nature's claim (also because at the last tourney someone called phantasmagorian with a pithing needle)
4 mindbreak trap
3 forest (I don't run fetches 'cause I don't want to lose a land because of a stifle (which are usually directed to ichorids))

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Originally Posted by meffeo

I just don't get why people don't use gitaxian probe.
It lead us the way towards an easy cabal therapy and it let us dredge from 3 to 6 cards.

Instead of 3 contagion and 1 sickening shoal I run 4 gitaxian, that usually go in sb for g2 and g3.

I don't run either the chancellor, my list is the same as hollywood, 3 griselbrand and 2 flayer.

My sb:
4 reverent silence
4 nature's claim (also because at the last tourney someone called phantasmagorian with a pithing needle)
4 mindbreak trap
3 forest (I don't run fetches 'cause I don't want to lose a land because of a stifle (which are usually directed to ichorids))

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I've never found probe to be necessary. I run chancellors in that spot and not once have I wished for one of then to be a probe. I play a lot of storm in addition to manaless, so I'm very comfortable with therapy and I don't need probe to be able to hit with it.

In the end it's a personal preference things, and I don't like having an extra counterable spell in the main when one of the main reasons for playing the deck is being uncounterable.

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Originally Posted by Countertoplol

In the end it's a personal preference things, and I don't like having an extra counterable spell in the main when one of the main reasons for playing the deck is being uncounterable.

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The uncounterable reason is undeniable. You convinced me I'm gonna give the chancellors a try

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Originally Posted by scottpou

resilient through counter spells

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I used to run Probes, but daze, spell pierce, etc got me angry. I only use Dredge when I know counter decks are rampant and I don't want to deal with fighting through them every round.

12th at SCG this last weekend:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=61232

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meffeo

I just don't get why people don't use gitaxian probe.
It lead us the way towards an easy cabal therapy and it let us dredge from 3 to 6 cards.

Instead of 3 contagion and 1 sickening shoal I run 4 gitaxian, that usually go in sb for g2 and g3.

I don't run either the chancellor, my list is the same as hollywood, 3 griselbrand and 2 flayer.

My sb:
4 reverent silence
4 nature's claim (also because at the last tourney someone called phantasmagorian with a pithing needle)
4 mindbreak trap
3 forest (I don't run fetches 'cause I don't want to lose a land because of a stifle (which are usually directed to ichorids))

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It's simple, because if you don't play Chancellor of the Annex you lose to Deathrite Shaman, and if you don't play Unmask you lose to combo. The deck already has a sufficiently fast clock ~turn 4 to race anything else.

I really, really dislike Contagion, mainly because losing 2 cards vs Deathrite Shaman is already a tripple Time Walk and doesn't guarantee the opponent can't follow it up with another Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Thoughtseize etc. to put you out of commission. Chancellof the Annex just says "no" to disruption and lets you start your engine unimpeded.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

It's simple, because if you don't play Chancellor of the Annex you lose to Deathrite Shaman, and if you don't play Unmask you lose to combo. The deck already has a sufficiently fast clock ~turn 4 to race anything else.

I really, really dislike Contagion, mainly because losing 2 cards vs Deathrite Shaman is already a tripple Time Walk and doesn't guarantee the opponent can't follow it up with another Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Thoughtseize etc. to put you out of commission. Chancellof the Annex just says "no" to disruption and lets you start your engine unimpeded.

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Don't you think that the timewalk caused by a contagion is quite the same timewalk caused by an unmask?

I'm thinking what could I take out for make room for the unmasks in sb but I did not found an answer atm...

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Don't you think that the timewalk caused by a contagion is quite the same timewalk caused by an unmask?

I'm thinking what could I take out for make room for the unmasks in sb but I did not found an answer atm...

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Vs combo hell no, you'll already have a Dredger in your 'yard and a chance to chain Dredge vs ANT etc. I've found it to be a case of "play these cards or you die" pretty much.

Unmask has nothing to do with Deathrite Shaman if that's what you're thinking.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Vs combo hell no, you'll already have a Dredger in your 'yard and a chance to chain Dredge vs ANT etc. I've found it to be a case of "play these cards or you die" pretty much.

Unmask has nothing to do with Deathrite Shaman if that's what you're thinking.

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I know that unmask has to do with combo decks ;)
I was thinking that contagion and unmask have to remove a black card from the hand, that's why I was talking about timewalk.

So you play the unmasks instead of the traps? Vs combo generally?

Hey all! What do you tend to sideboard out in order to bring in the lands and answers plan? Do you trim the worst dredgers? Cut some beaters? Trim the DR package? I've been practicing with a maindeck and I like it, but it's time to start learning the sideboard. I'm running 3 Grisel/1 Flayer, Nether Shadows and Ichorids, Dryad Arbors and Chancellors, and of course the usual stuff. No Spies. I have a side board of 1 Fetch, 1 Bayou, 1 Forest, 4 Reverent Silence, 4 Nature's Claim, 3 Contagion, and 1 Sickening Shoal. I might cut the spot removal vs DRS since I run Chancellor, and try to shore up my Combo match with Unmasks or Mindbreak Traps, but for starters, what do I cut to bring in answers? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Hey all! What do you tend to sideboard out in order to bring in the lands and answers plan? Do you trim the worst dredgers? Cut some beaters? Trim the DR package? I've been practicing with a maindeck and I like it, but it's time to start learning the sideboard. I'm running 3 Grisel/1 Flayer, Nether Shadows and Ichorids, Dryad Arbors and Chancellors, and of course the usual stuff. No Spies. I have a side board of 1 Fetch, 1 Bayou, 1 Forest, 4 Reverent Silence, 4 Nature's Claim, 3 Contagion, and 1 Sickening Shoal. I might cut the spot removal vs DRS since I run Chancellor, and try to shore up my Combo match with Unmasks or Mindbreak Traps, but for starters, what do I cut to bring in answers? Thanks!

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Are you talking about cutting your spot removal all together?

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Originally Posted by meffeo

I know that unmask has to do with combo decks ;)
I was thinking that contagion and unmask have to remove a black card from the hand, that's why I was talking about timewalk.

So you play the unmasks instead of the traps? Vs combo generally?

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The point is comparring Unmask to Contagion doesn't make sense because you Contagion on T1 to kill Deathrite Shaman where you Unmask on T2 in order to not die to Storm - big difference -

I play Unmask MD and Mindbreak Trap SB usually.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

I play Unmask MD and Mindbreak Trap SB usually.

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I guess you play 4 Unmask. Instead of what maindeck?

I play unmask in sideboard as a 4-of. It has an additional surprise effect against opponents that put you on the play game 2 or 3 when you target yourself and discard grave troll. Priceless, although it doesn't come up that often...


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Originally Posted by meffeo

I guess you play 4 Unmask. Instead of what maindeck?

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Not sure what the 8 "flex" slots are for people these days, Dryad Arbor, Gitaxian Probe, Contagion or whatever bullshit people are playing in the deck I guess.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Not sure what the 8 "flex" slots are for people these days, Dryad Arbor, Gitaxian Probe, Contagion or whatever bullshit people are playing in the deck I guess.

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Then this will be your ideal list, without spot removal and answers to combo.deck in mb AND in sb:

Creatures:44
4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
3 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Street Wraith
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Phantasmagorian
3 Griselbrand

Spells:16
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return
4 Unmask

Sideboard:15
3 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Reverent Silence

That's about what I'm running, Meffeo, but I have Arbors instead of Unmasks. What do you side out to side in the Traps, and what do you side out to side in the Land + Answer Plan?

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Originally Posted by JPoJohnson

12th at SCG this last weekend:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=61232

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I like this list, but I can't see myself not running 4 Therapies main... Ever...