Ah yes, forgot about the Terminus application of Funeral Charm. The discard mode can be pretty punishing against hellbent opponents.
Printable View
I think the match-up is fine, but I have a ton of reps in against it so I may be overrating the MU in general. Generally, Brainstorms, Decay, 2 Gemstone Mine, and 1-2 Duress come out. The last two needles, Stifle, Ghost Quarter, Karakas, and Extractions come in. Duress is weaker than IOK here because Lands players will often board in Tireless Trackers which can be a big problem. Decay does hit Tracker, but is pretty weak otherwise unless you see other cards worth hitting outside of Exploration, Mox, and maybe a Votex/Assualt or two. The lands are a straight swap trading colored sources that helped cast brainstorms early for utility lands that impact the match-up. Brainstorm is still fine, but they can often cut you off of blue (or another color if you fetch a Bayou and 1 of Sea/Trop) making them a liability.
As far as approach goes, G1 they often don't have Karakas... so if you have any window to make Marit Lage, do it and then figure out how to hit them with it later. Sometimes a Wasteland and/or Steppe is enough, sometimes you need to try and copy Wastelands with Stages depending on the defenses they assemble. Whenever possible, try to time key utility lands hitting the graveyard with Loam being in the yard so either a bog played from hand or rotated into play will do double duty. This can often be done by baiting a Wasteland or GQ activation by copying it with one of your Stages.
Post board is more grindy since they will often have Karakas and Trackers to worry about. You have more tools as well and it's one of the more interesting match-ups to play against in the format imo. I've won on turn 2, turn 25, and everywhere in between. Knowing what and when to Extract is huge. Loam, Depths, Stage, Tracker, Wasteland, GQ, and Karakas can all be the right targets in certain game states. I've also hit Chasm and Maze before. If possible, holding one to use it during their draw step the turn you plan on going for it is sometimes the way to go since it allows you to see if they have or drew a crop rotation that may be able to interfere at instant speed or drew a waste effect that turn (letting you combo during the draw step if that is their only out). Plus you may get to tag an extra card if they happened to draw a second copy of whatever you are extracting. Learning what to name and when to play Needle is key as well. Just naming the first of Wasteland or GQ that you see can be incorrect. Sometimes you can play through one of those and need to Needle Karakas or combo through the Wasteland and save it for Maze. You just have to jam games against it until you start to identify the holes in their draws/lines.
No problem and thank you! What did you play against?
That is a lot to reflect on. I'll digest it over time. Tons of thanks though. How would it differ if you saw Chalice out of them?
Going live on twitch.tv/dnsolver
Edit: Well, we had a disappointing 0-3 drop from the league tonight. I will probably stream tomorrow sometime if I don't lose power to the snowstorm coming through New England.
Your last round vs. Moon Stompy was quite interesting. That game when you had ESG,Hexmage, Library, 2 Stage Bayou Forest Swamp, he had Tomb, 2 Mountain, Chrome Mox, Leyline, Trinisphere, Chalice, Blood Moon: I would have probably Decay'ed the Chrome Mox after he played the 1st Confluence to dome you, this way he can't cast 2nd Confluence under Blood Moon and he's dead in 2 turns to your beats. But this can also still lose and is gambling on whether he's not drawing another land.
My intuition would probably have cast the ESG right away, but it's hard to say because of Trinisphere and maybe needing the mana.
Surprisingly interesting against for such a straight forward deck (Moon Stompy)
No Problem. I generally don't worry about them boarding in Chalice since they can't really play it on 1 without shutting off all of their tutors and can't play it on 2 without shutting off Loam. I'm ok with either of those scenarios and we also still have Hexmages that can remove the counters from Chalice if need be.
Round 1: Aluren
Cavern Harpy will block forever if you don't find pithing needle or sejiri steppe. I remember Brainstorming into a crop rotation, pithing needle, and surgical extraction at one point and cast all 3 that turn (needle on cavern harpy, surgical on FoW, check that the hand had no way of dealing with the token, then rotated into combo). Not to state the obvious, but K-Grip was way better than abrupt decay in this matchup, and I was thankful to have access to it.
Round 2: The Gate
Alot of discard back and forth. I think one of these games, I brainstormed some extra lands away into 2 discard spells to shred my opponent's hand.
Round 3: BUG Delver
G1, he countered 3 discard spells and 3 hexmages. On the last turn, my opponent is hellbent and a brainstorm finds me a second crop rotation so i can rotate into Urborg + Stage with a depths in play to steal an unlikely win.
Boarded in flusterstorms to fight counter magic and possible hymn to tourachs but it never came up. Still excited to test them further.
I've had continued success testing the Walking Ballista / Volrath's Stronghold plan against Miracles. No testing online yet, as I've been taking a short detour to play Miracles online for a bit - just as a joke. However, testing in paper with some friends has shown that it is still pretty strong. Making their Surgicals have to hit Ballista, Hexmage, and Depths is very annoying for them, and this strains their choices. Any pressure from Hexmage or Ballista is annoying for them.
I've been considering putting in 1-2 Triskelion over 1-2 Ballistas. It serves a similar function at the cost of 1) needing a set 6 mana, 2) being unable to grow but can help us beat Surgical easier. If you're wondering how we sacrifice our own Triskelion, when it's targeted by any sort of removal, we first remove a counter to shoot the Triskelion. After the damage resolves, we can then use the other two counters however we like.
Finished 3rd at a 60 player Legacy Event Today with B/G Turbo Depths
I've been playing this deck for a few months now after having an initial interest in playing lands and loving combo, have been playing UB Reanimator for a long time. Finally I decided to build this deck after it won Eternal Weekend.
Here's the list I played today at the Arizona Phoenix City Champs.
Creatures:8
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
Spells:29
4 Lotus Petal
4 Crop Rotation
1 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
3 Into the North
1 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Not of This World
Lands:23
2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:15
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dread of Night
1 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
I'm terrible at remembering my games but heres a general run down.
Match One - 2-1 Vs 12 Post
Game 1: I drop Urborg and take a repeal with thoughtseize, he has a slow hand with a top, map, lands and a primetime, my hand should be able to race. Turn 2 I play forest and pass and cast into the north for Dark Depths, Turn 3 I play Stage and pass, he cracks his map for Karakas and plays it. I crop rotate the forest for a ghost quarter and get rid of the Karaks then make the token and win.
Game 2: He lands a needle quickly on stage and casts a turn 3 Show and tell, runs away with the game on the back of a Primeval Titan. I needle his Eye of Ugin, but it doesn't matter, I'm dead a few turns later.
Game 3: My opening hand is pretty insane. I'm able to play urborg and thoughtseize him and take a show and tell, then drop a petal and spirit guide for a Chalice on 1. Depths and Stage are in hand. at the end of his 3rd turn I make the Avatar and have NoTW as backup for anything he may have.
Match Two - 0-2 Vs 4-Color Blade
(Playing a friend so he knows what I'm on)
Game 1: I have a pretty great hand, two Hexmage, some black mana sources and a Depths, I should be able to turn 2 Hexmage into turn 3 Dark depths. However he wins the die role and drops a quick turn 2 Meddling Mage and names Hexmage, then plays a turn 3 Wasteland and essential keeps me at a standstill while he attacks me to death with a TNN and meddling mage.
Game 2: I mull to 6 and never really get going, he hits an early wasteland and steals the game with fast creatures. it was a beating
Match Three - 2-0 Vs Death and Taxes
Game 1: I win the die role and get an early Inquisition to take a Mirrin Crusader as hes got a Jailer and not much else going on. I quickly assemble the combo and make the token asap to avoid him drawing a wasteland on his turn as I know the rest of his hand is garbage. he draws Karakas, plays it and attempts to bounce the token, Not of This World for the WIN!
Game 2: Another nuts hand. Turn 1 Bayou, into crop rotate for Urborg as he casts OG Thalia on his second turn. I play dark depths, cast hexmage and pass. he plays Mom then passes, I make Token in end step, he taps WW to swords, I exile ESG in responce to pay for the Thalia tax and cast Not of This World. I win next turn.
One of my worst matchups was the easiest of the day.
Match 4: 2-0 Vs Burn
Game 1: He wins the die role and mulligans once. I'm relieved when I see a turn 1 Barbarian Ring into a Lava spike. I inquisition and take a Price of Progress leaving him with double fetch and fireblast. Next turn I take the fireblast with a duress and then make the token the following turn.
Game 2: Nothing too exciting. I make a turn 3-4 Marit Lage and win the game. I do bait out a smash to smithereens with a pithing needle on his fetches to then cast Chalice on 1.
Match 5: 2-0 Vs Burn
Game 1: So happy to see another turn 1 Mountain into Swiftspear. I quickly assemble the combo uninterrupted and win
Game 2: He mulligans to 5 and my opening is a turn 3-4 win. I also have hand disruption.
Match 6: 2-0 Vs BR Reanimator
unfortunately it's not a clean cut and most of the 4-1's cannot draw in, especially me with my early loss. I have to play what i feel is a very bad matchup.
Game 1: He wins the die roll. Thoughtseizes me and takes my thoughtseize. I play a land and pass, he has a slow start and passes back without a 2nd land. I draw a thoughtseize and cast it. he entombs in response and bins a Griselbrand. I see exhume, reanimate, animate dead, Griselbrand and Tidespout Tyrant, I take the reanimate and pass hoping he doesnt draw a 2nd land. he unmasks pitching Griselbrand and takes an into the north. I cast Sylvan Scrying for Bojuka bog and play it. 2 turns later I have the combo and win.
Game 2: this one was interesting. He again opens with hand dispurtion and takes mine leaving me with Surgical, Karakas, Dark Depths, Urborg, Crop Rotation and Sylvan Scrying. I Draw a ESG and play the Urborg and pass. he casts Fatithless Lotting binning a Griselbrand and some irrelevant card. I draw ESG play the Depths and pass. He attempts to unmkast me. I tap the urborg and Dark Depths for BB, discard the ESG to crop rotate the Urborg away for a Stage, make the token then surgical away his Griselbrand. I tell him the unmask resolves. he scoops in response.
TOP 8
Storm - 2-1
Game 1: I have a pretty sick hand of urborg, forest, thoughtseize, hexmage, ESG, 2x Into the north and something else.
I play urborg and cast the thoughtseize seeing an OK hand. I take his ponder leaving him with probe, probe, 2x land and 2 infernal tutor He plays both probes, hits a cabal therapy and takes my into the norths. I cast hexmage turn 2 and start chipping in. hes starting to accumulate quite the graveyard and im digging for a crop rotate or something to get Bojuka bog. I get him to 5 with 2 hexmages and draw a dark depths, too late. he kills me the next turn.
Game 2: He mulligans to 6, and I open with and disruption taking his LED which slows him down a bit because his Infernal tutor is now not great, just ok. I get the quick Combo out and win.
Game 3: He plays Island top and passes, I play lotus petal, land and chalice on 0. Using the petal and land to cast into the north for Dark depths. the next turn I draw hand disruption and see 2 LEDs in hand and some other blue cantrips. I take a brainstorm and pass. I get a hexmage in play and pass. He keeps blue up and I have a feeling he has the chain of vapor. I attack for a turn then risk it and make the token, he has it and bounces my dude. next two draws are Stage and Depths. his turn 4 he digs for a while and cantrips a lot, but doesnt find anything. I make the token and win on my next turn.
TOP 4
Alluren 1-2
Game 1: He plays turn 1 DRS and passes, I try to thoughtseize and he forces. he casts a Turn 2 Parasitic Strix and turn 3 Alluren, as he passes the turn I attempt to make the token, but he flashes in the Cavern Harpy and wins on the spot.
Game 2: I manage to quickly Duress and Surgical his Allurens. I assemble the combo and he has a string of flying blockers and chips in with a DRS. He gets out Cavern Harpy and starts to block/bounce. I draw a Pithing needle a few turns later and win the next turn after the Harpy dies.
Game 3: same as game 1. the turn I go to make the token he attempts the combo. I could have one had i known he had nothing else in hand but I didnt know. had I abrupt Decay'ed his Glint Nest Crane when he flashed in harpy he had nothing else... But I didn't know and was not too familiar with the matchup.
All in all the deck is amazing, I get several 4-0's in our weekly Daily events but was hesitant bringing it to a big event. Glad I did! With a little bit of luck and some decent sequencing the deck did well. I enjoy the puzzle like aspect of it and continue to play it more in the future and refine my side-boarding with the deck.
Glad to hear you had success with the deck.
I 3-0-1'd FNM on Friday.
Maindeck: yeah yeah
Sideboard:
4 Walking Ballista
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
3 Sylvan Library
1 Surgical Extraction
R1: Punishing Zooo 2-0
R2: Rich Shay on Miracles 2-1
G1: Lost to Snapcaster beats eventually. In hindsight, I probably should have conceded this game earlier to save time for G2 and G3.
G2: discard -> hexmage (gets countered) -> discard + library. Find a Needle on Top. From there, I assemble Ballista + Stronghold and carefully take him apart. Library and Needle were great and lived the whole game.
G3: He boards in Mentor to race Ballista. I keep a fast-ish combo hand with discard, needle, hexmage, hexmage. First discard takes a removal spell and I see Mentor. First hexmage gets Force'd. He has turn 3 Mentor. I then play Needle on Top and Hexmage #2. I go for it after he plays Top pass, and he dies.
R3: Shardless 2-0
G1: On the play t1 discard, t2 discard hexmage depths off a lotus petal.
G2: triple spirit guide, crop rotation, both halves of the combo.
R4: Burn (draw)
I always draw the last round, even though this matchup is essentially a bye.
Sorry for double post. Going live on twitch!
https://www.twitch.tv/dnsolver
Went 5-0 tonight!
R1: 2-0 BUG Threshold - G1 he mulls to 5. Probably a much more interesting matchup when the opponent draws a bit better.
R2: 2-0 Shardless BUG
R3: 2-1 Doomsday - lack of anti-combo cards in the sideboard hurt a bit, but plenty of discard spells got it done.
R4: 2-0 Burn
R5: 2-1 4-Color Loam - Dan Neeley was my opponent for this match. It was a great set of games with a particularly awesome/interesting game 2.
Twitch Link and Youtube Link:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130112134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAA2F57Jys
Great videos DNSolver! Thanks again for creating this content for us and congrats on the crowd of viewers :) Wish I'd been among them in real-time.
It was great to be able to pause the video and consider plays that I wanted to make, and then watch you next-level them. As a new player of this deck I definitely get bogged down in cookie-cutter lines and keeps/mulligans, so the videos and explanations are great help. Keep it up and congrats on the 5-0!
I think you went a little too next level against Doomsday on game 2 where you didn't surgical the Probes. Hard to know what you were against for sure at that point and he may have had a win without the Probes anyway, but I think taking them out was safer than eating the Therapy.
In the above list, how you guys feel about the difference between Volrath's Stronghold and Academy Ruins? Ruins gets you needles and ballista's back. And Volrath gets ballista's and hexmage's.
Hey guys, just started a Legacy League on Wednesdays at my store and I went undefeated in 4 rounds! Dodged Lands, ANT, D&T, Miracles.
R1: Grixis Delver 2-1
Lose G1 to drawing nothing, G2 I quick combo him, G3 we have a huge war over a Crop Rot that exhausts all but 1 card in hand, paving the way for an uninterrupted combo turn.
R2: B/R Reanimator 2-1
G1 I mull to 5 but keep a Bog in hand, he T1 Loots away 2 Reanimate targets and Bog stops him. He draws 4 or 5 lemons before I kill him.
G2 T1 Reanimate a Sire of Insanity, scoop.
G3 Duress his Entomb, win thereafter.
R3: BUG Delver (2-0)
Not much to say, he Stifled a Stage activation once and rolled over otherwise. Got Brainstormed locked G2.
R4: Charbelcher (2-0)
G1 I'm on the play and Thoughtseize a Land Grant, he can't get anything going.
G2 on the draw I have triple ESG, Map, Sylvan Scrying, Hexmage, Thoughtseize to start. I keep, Scry up Urborg and Thoughtseize his Chrome Mox, and he similarly rolls over to T3 Combo.
Fun night overall!
Curious what you're guys thoughts are on our 4-Color Loam match up. I literally get stomped 9 out of 10 times by it and coincidentally as I start really getting into BG Depths everyone locally starts playing 4c Loam.
KoTR, Wasteland, Maze, Thespian stage etc. against us just seems soooo rough, Any tips or pointers for the matchup are greatly appreciate
Honestly I feel like that matchup is probably just miserable if you don't find your needles VERY quickly. Needle on Wasteland and Knight ASAP should help, as well as holding up Crop Rots in response to their Land Destruction or just god handing. Outside of that, you're definitely on the back foot if they can interact or drop a Chalice. It feels like the matchup is about as good as Lands, but your Duresses do less work. May be time to give Depths a breather, or if you're lucky enough to own 4-C Loam yourself (I'm trading into it over the next month), join the herd.
4-Color Loam matchup is manageable. Needles are very good. I sideboard:
-5 fast mana
-4 Duress (I guess the OUT is play-draw dependent, you could want this on the play for Chalice?)
+4 Decay
+1 Needle
+1 Surgical
+3 Library
I played the matchup on my last stream. I stole G1 with double Spirit Guide, lost an interesting G2, and won G3. You can check it out on Youtube or Twitch, it was the 5th match of my latest league.
That was a fun match to watch and the double ESG play had to be tilting for your opponent. Duress is certainly decent on the play in this match-up post board since they will often be bringing in 2 plows (possibly even an edict) in addition to Chalice and the other normal targets. This is one of the match-ups where IOK is superior to Duress since it literally hits everything in the deck sans 1-2 4cc planeswalkers that tend to be floating around in the sideboard. Being able to snag Knight or even Dark Confidant is big game.