Good where we're already good, bad where we need help.
Also, is that actually a real card? The art looks.......bad.
Printable View
Good where we're already good, bad where we need help.
Also, is that actually a real card? The art looks.......bad.
It just feels too slow and doesn't provide enough value. When you're smacking your opponent with a 5 drop, you're probably already winning the game, whether it's Thragtusk, Titania, or Sigarda.
I was looking at the edh subreddit and apparently they have sources proving it's real. I can try to dig them up if you want but it think it makes sense that there is something cat based in that set given amonkhet and dragons have a ton of casual appealQuote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
So... I had a game today that'll make all Rhino afficionados... well... happy.
I was playing a game vs. a buddy and I had the following 4 turns. It was late in the game, I had 10 lands out.
- Siege Rhino
- Siege Rhino, GSZ for Siege Rhino. Rhino 1 gets Fatal Pushed before combat
- GSZ for Siege Rhino
- Eternal Witness, Siege Rhino.
5 Rhinos in 4 turns, fought back from the brink of death and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.
Most. Epic. Game. Ever.
I am going to be playing in the Nerd Rage Gaming legacy tournament this weekend in northern Illinois (Edit: looks like it is going to cap at 92/96 players) and I was wondering if I could get a heat check on what the best Junk lists are looking like? I was on sneak fit and had built Arianhrod's latest list last night and it looks sweet but I think it might be a bit too deep for me at the moment. I've been playing 2 years now but quite frankly I am not a very good magic player so I am hoping that by going a bit lower and playing on curve, I will put myself in better positions than trying to set up combo kills in a format I am not well versed in.
So anyhow jamming Ricardio.fit seems like it will be a bit more fun - has anyone found any further junk tech in the last week or so? Dromoka is just too slow these days?
Thanks for any input - I love reading all the cool ideas generated by everyone here!
Alright so I've played about 40 matches since my last post and tuned it quite a bit so here's a little update:
- Mass Trackers+Oboro sounded really sweet in theory which is why I was trying them out but they came short in practise. I never ever bounced Oboro (except once to fix my colours) and the Trackers themeslves were fine but not great, partially because you sort of don't want to run them out the second you have 3 mana, however we have stronger options higher up the curve. Went down to 1.
- Leovold has been a house. That card just keeps impressing me and I keep winning matches I'd have no business winning without him. Great against fair decks and randomly hates on a lot of other decks. Made beating Enchantress a walk in the park. Having 2 has been relevant more than a few times.
- Jace is still great.
- After doing more testing Titania is back in the deck and not going anywhere.
- Deeds have been amazing.
As for the sideboard:
- B2B has been very lackluster. Against Lands/Turbo depths it doesn't help as they can just kill you anyways, against BUG/4c midrange piles you typically can go over them eventually anyways if you can stabilize and the card is awful if you're behind.
- Marit Lage and S&T decks have been problematic so I added some edict effects to the board.
- I moved Teeg to the board as he definitely affects us as well.
Without further ado here's my current list:
// 60 Maindeck
// 14 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Baleful Strix
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
// 18 Instant/Sorcery
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Fatal Push
1 Ponder
// 6 Other Permanent
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 22 Land
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Nissa, Vital Force
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 To the Slaughter
Considering adding a Strix, maybe another piece of removal.
I'm currently at 64% of games/ 68% of matches won. I try to go for "serious", rated games but I realize it's still xmage so take it for what it's worth.
By the way can somebody share their BUG list? (square_two maybe?)
I'm sort of interested in how you guys go about beating combo without FoW.
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Sneak Attack
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Mana Confluence
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
sb::
2 Lost Legacy
1 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Celestial Purge
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Blood Moon
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
1 To the Slaughter
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Chalice of the Void
Somebody convince me that I'm crazy.
Combo will usually have me bringing in:Quote:
Originally Posted by 509
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical
1 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
and when you combine that with 3 Brainstorm, Jace, 4 Therapies, 2 Brutalities, 1 Leovold already, it really doesn't feel bad at all. Don't really mind most of the combo matchups.
I'm close to this right now. Went with -1 Vet +1 GSZ, -1 Push +1 Decay, -1 Golgari -1 TS, +2 Lost Legacy in my side for my last league and I liked that alright. Don't really know what direction to go with it atm.
I thought craziness was a requirement to be posting in this thread :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
If you really want to go with Deed/Deluge as your primary maindeck removal, why not cut Tracker and Deathrite? Steve, Witness, Empath don't care, they do their job regardless of how long they wind up staying on the board. Maybe Steve #2 and...Witness #2? Tracker doesn't take long to live through a Deluge, and you probably don't have to bother after landing him though. Another idea is to run Sylvan Ranger or Wood Elves / little Nissa which give you land and then stick around to be Therapy or Intent fodder. Or more card advantage like Whispers or Library, that does seem lacking here.
Feels like you are upping the power level by removing the single target removal. I'm not sure how the combo/negative matchups are affected, but anything fair/delver/burn is sure to improve.
Edit: I also am toying with the idea of 1 Blood Moon in the main as an intent target. They'll never expect it...
Tracker's mostly still around at this point as Bellower fodder. I've won an awful lot of games by Zenithing Bellower with a Tracker stapled to him, even if Tracker is generally -- and oddly -- somewhat underperforming on his own for me. He still has his run-away games, but they're a bit fewer and farther between.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Adding Rhinos also gives us a bit more life total to play with, which helps smooth out the slower removal game one (and then postboard we can bring in cheap removal to help out). I also look forward to Sneaking a Rhino on somebody.
Little Nissa is on my watch list at the moment. She might end up getting the nod over Tracker eventually -- she'd already be in the deck if she was Bellowable.
The deck still has a deceptive amount of removal:
2 Deed
2 Deluge
1 Pulse
2 Nahiri
1 Inferno Titan (yes I count him)
And don't forget that Sneaking Emrakul very frequently is removal, even if they have a bunch of permanents. Plus, you can effectively add two copies to all of the above by virtue of Diabolic Intent. The maindeck removal is expensive for sure, but it's also all very, very high-quality.
The problem that I've been noticing is that if they aren't just dead, we seem to stall out in the midgame. If they give us enough time, we'll recover for the lategame, but there's a 4-5 turn window that we're very weak in atm. This is my attempt at fixing that.
It also represents a new attempt at "fixing" our consistency problem without Top -- just be more redundant. More monsters. More threats. More Sneak Attacks (3+2 split). More overlapping cards -- more life gain. For good or for ill, this design lets us just worry about playing to our mana and our deck will just draw us gas.
It might be a terrible idea, but it's at least an idea, and just off of theorycrafting alone, I like where it's going. The metagame, at least around here, seems to be drifting towards equal parts Delver, BUG (a mix of delver, TNN, food chain, aluren, shardless), and Show and Tell, with Lands, Elves, Eldrazi, other combos, Esperblade, etc existing on a "tier 2" level. This deck is very much built for that metagame and checks off a lot of the boxes therein that I'm looking for. The question will just be if it actually works beyond "on paper."
Yup testing went great, real competition went bad. I started out great beating burn (what!) then going to time vs merfolk (which I would have won), then loosing to big red and bug natural order. Made quite a few mistakes but mostly the deck lost to itself. It was a pleasure playing Deed and Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
Now back to the drawing board.
Understood: have you tried maindeck Humility? For me it becomes more and more usefull every game i play, giving you an incredible edge against many tier 2 and bettering some bad MU like elves, S&T and Reanimator for example. But the main point is its flexibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Ricardio.fit hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by emaugust
That's awesome.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to pm me.
@echelon: more rhino, more better. Skillerhino is a difficult spell to not cast.
I've dropped the Oboro plan too. It sounded good but I've found it's too costly giving up land drops. If the CA is already coming you're just losing potential land drops, and if it's not you're still going to see a land every other draw, which means it's only worth .5 triggers/turn (per Tracker). It works better as another fetchland where you can generate two triggers upfront. The only thing I have yet to figure out is if I want a 9th green fetch (so it would only get green) or if I want it to be my other colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by 509
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
3 Gideon of the Trials
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
sb::
1 Celestial Purge
1 To the Slaughter
2 Fatal Push
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Pithing Needle
2 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rest in Peace
Brewin'.
Chad is Sun Titanable, which seems like a possible thing we should consider exploiting. Still very much focused on tuning Sneak, but had this idea last night and it amused me too much to not jot it down to come back to later.
I only ever fiddled with this deck online a couple years ago, but I always loved it. It reminds me of being a little kid again, where I would basically build ramp every single time with x4 Rampant Growth if left to my own devices. I haven't been in this thread in a while, but have lurked a little and see no talk of ScapeFit. Who's still playing that, and why did people stop? That was by far my favorite list of NicFit, I've always hated BGw and preferred BGr.
Isn't Scape maybe even stronger than say, Sneak Attack? Sneak Attack is an A+B combo for the most part, requiring you to get an Emrakul, though you can definitely value out of it in this type of deck with so many high CC bombs. Scapeshift requires you to build around it a little more, but the core interaction of the deck is Veteran Explorer netting us two lands. Why has this list fallen out of popularity so much, and does anyone have a recent one?
I loved Scape, played it for a couple years to some pretty reasonable finishes, but in the end its strength was the versatility afforded by Burning Wish, and the strong two-pronged plan of fair creatures with an endgame powerhouse sorcery that you had to set up. Now the Scapeshift shell may still be reasonable, but that card alone is not enough reason to play the deck. Plenty of other combo finishes exist that are more consistent and less hampered by things like Wasteland or Blood Moon. The issue is that the fair creature plan of Huntmasters and Thragtusks just doesn't line up well with the rest of the format anymore. Huntmaster used to be a house in these fair matchups, now it gets brickwalled by TNN and other higher-impact threats like Angler and Tombstalker. It actually suffered a lot from the loss of Top, which was what let you do tricks of constantly flipping it back and forth. While he certainly can have his moments of greatness, Huntmaster has fallen pretty far. Primeval Titan is still a powerful card and it is possible an all-in Scapeshift style build can have legs but I can't imagine a reason to play that deck when something like Sneak/Show and Storm exist.
The nice thing about Sneak Attack builds is that your plan A and plan B intersect a lot better than they did with Scape. You want an Inferno Titan in your deck because it's a monster when you combine it with Sneak Attack on turn 3 or 4. But that card is also just very easily castable on turn 4-5 when you have it without Sneak Attack. The only card that is usually dead without a Sneak Attack is the Emrakul, and even then it's not impossible to hardcast her in a control matchup. Your opponent kind of has to fight over the Sneak Attack, right? But then when they do, you still have this huge monster that's coming in a turn or two, and it's still gonna kill them if they don't have another answer. Whereas with Scape, the threats are more easily ignored, leaving you with just a single 2GG basket to put all your eggs in.
Crazy awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Have you tested Lingering Souls? Seems like it might have some synergy with that list.
Are people still playing Garruk, Primal Hunter? I'm still rockin' two.
Yup, I literally played all the Rhinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
His manacost still has GGG in it, so I'm still not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
On a sidenote - I believe I've found a way of dealing w/ Grixis Delver w/ my particular list - board out the Dryad Arbor package (Arbor, Intent, Meren) and some other stuff (a DRS, Tracker and Qasali Pridemage) for 3 Duress and 3 Lost Legacy. Lets me mess with their early interruption and Lost Legacy thins out their threats so I have an easier time managing with just a set of PtEs. I seriously love me some Lost Legacy.
As for Vizier of the Menagerie - I got him on the field a few times, and the fact that it clears away excess creatures from time to time has won me a game or 2 b/c it helped me draw into removal in time. The fact that it doesn't cost life didn't hurt there either. Heck, at some point I could even use him to apply some pressure. I'm not sold on Vizier yet, but I don't hate it either. It's a nice lategame card that also tells you whether to fetch (or GSZ) or to wait a turn. Lategame that can be incredibly valuable.