[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

I wouldn't say that running 3 drops is completely out of the question, but the number does have to decrease now. I think proactive 1-drops (Thoughtseize/Push) are more important now than than their 2-drop counterparts (Hymn/Decay), at least until the dust settles and we have an established metagame.

Tombstalkers have been my most reliable win condition against DnT so far, and multiples alongside Goyf hasn't yet been a problem. Remorseful Cleric might be an issue once M19 is legal, but we'll see.

Cards I'm looking at testing: Scavenging Ooze and Darkblast.

Messing around with cutting Delvers and go midrange. It’s done pretty well so far. Thoughts?

SB I think needs some work.

Deck: Legacy BUG Midrange 0.0.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:16
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Baleful Strix
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 True-Name Nemesis

Spells:24
4 Brainstorm
2 Fatal Push
3 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
4 Force of Will

Lands:20
1 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Bitterblossom
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Winter Orb

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RHWil

Messing around with cutting Delvers and go midrange. It’s done pretty well so far. Thoughts?

SB I think needs some work.

Deck: Legacy BUG Midrange 0.0.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:16
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Baleful Strix
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 True-Name Nemesis

Spells:24
4 Brainstorm
2 Fatal Push
3 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
4 Force of Will

Lands:20
1 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Bitterblossom
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Winter Orb

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Not to be a dick, but there is already a BUG midrange thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kion

Not to be a dick, but there is already a BUG midrange thread.

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No worries, didn't see it before this thread. Thanks.

So BUG Delver took down a tournament:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19666&d=326287&f=LE

Gurmag might be now the better option in the delve creature slot as we might not get to BB mana as consistently as we did with DRS.

https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/...eath-of-Delver

MKM article mentions BUG delver in Prague.
Similair list but with tombstalkers.

This template maybe the way to go from now on.
I like the inclusion of 2 TNN.

Looking at the PT results, really looking forward to play BUG Delver as all of the T16 decks are quite manageable with the correct SB (especially Deathshadow, as AD wrecks them) :)

What are your thoughts on this, any suggestions / take aways?

I started to test this list against my friends:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
4 true-name nemesis
2 gurmag angler

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn to tourach
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
2 diabolic edict

SIDEBOARD
2 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 marsh casualties
1 sylvan library
1 liliana, the last hope
1 pithing needle
1 grafdigger's cage
1 blue elemental blast

PS: the best configuration is 4 sea, 2 bayou, 1 tropical, but I don't have the 4th sea....

After my test, G1/G2/G3:
RUG Delver 4-1
D&T 6-1
S&S 3-1
Miracle 4-1
Blade 4-0
Elves 3-1
Red Stompy 4-4 (depends on how many bmoon/magus he can see)
4c Loam 4-2
Eldrazi 2-0
Grixis Control 4-1

(I don't know any Lands players amon my friends)

After my test, I think that BUG Delver must play 12-14 creatures....and then, after DRS ban, TNN can be a fantastic replace, with 20 lands...In addition there is an increase of blue-cards for Force of Will.
With 4 TNN, Split 3 Daze/ 3 Tourach are enough.....double cc black contains only 3 cards in the deck...and then double cc blue only 4 cards...
The deck looks very stable...Have u tested a similar deck, mates?

PS: this list has a VERY NICE TOPDECK!!! :tongue:

Did you only play games without sideboarding? Because I can't grasp how you managed to beat DnT so clearly. The Matchup is heavily unfavored for this deck. I dunno, 4 TNN seems kinda much, but I haven't tested it before.

I have to agree that 4 TNN seems to be a bit too much (and I personally prefer Tombstalker over Angler, but that something different) - Why are you so heavy on this 3 drop and not down to 12 creatures as most lists?

In addition, have you tested against Storm / Fast Combo? You seem to be a little bit low on interaction and a bit too heavy on removal for the average tournament meta.

This list has been putting up the most results online in legacy leagues, and it's a lot more tempo-focused than what I've been trying since the ban. It reminds me of the Dark Confidant builds from 3-4 years ago.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213713#paper

It was also discussed on the recent "This Week in Legacy" article.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...commander-2018

Any thoughts on the set up? I'm going to try it out for a bit and see what happens.

All results are bestof3.
against DNT there are some cards in sb...bitterblossom for example can product a lot of advantages. I won all matches 2-1.

4 tnn? Before this choice, I played 3 gurmag and 3 tnn, but this is tooo clunky.....with 20 lands you can play 1-2 tnn, and its enough.

I haven't tested against storm yet, because I haven't friends with any kind of storm list...Today I won 2-1 against ub reanimator and 2-1 against br reanimator.

You Should test it eheheheh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toffee

All results are bestof3.
against DNT there are some cards in sb...bitterblossom for example can product a lot of advantages. I won all matches 2-1.

4 tnn? Before this choice, I played 3 gurmag and 3 tnn, but this is tooo clunky.....with 20 lands you can play 1-2 tnn, and its enough.

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Agree, this seems way too clunky^^ Why are you not playing any Liliana main?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toffee

I haven't tested against storm yet, because I haven't friends with any kind of storm list...Today I won 2-1 against ub reanimator and 2-1 against br reanimator.

You Should test it eheheheh

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Should have mentioned it, I'm the one referenced in the MKM article so this is a fairly recent list of what I'm playing atm (few adjustments -1 Hymn +1 Liliana, SB: -2 TS +2 SP -1 Liliana +1 Sylvan Library) - So I've tested quite a lot of storm, that's were my request on your experiences with your removal-heavy version is coming from.

With regards to the MTGGoldfish-list, I tested quite some matches with a more tempo-heavy version (4 Stifles but also Mongoose etc.) but didn't like it too much as BUG seems to be better at proactivly disrupting our opponent instead to sitting back and reacting. In addition, I don't like the combination of Stifle and Discard as it's always a hard decision with high downside if you make the wrong call.

What are your thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storming_Dude

I don't like the combination of Stifle and Discard as it's always a hard decision with high downside if you make the wrong call.

What are your thoughts?

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I agree that there's tension between the cards, but if you think about Stifle as a hard counter to Terminus that also has upsides in almost every other match, it seems reasonable to play. Mostly, this version looks like it's all-in for combo matches G1, while losing a ground against DnT.

Saving discard for key turns where you want to resolve something important, or before your opponent resolves something on curve sounds like a better use of Thoughtseize rather than blind T1.

I dunno though, it might play better in practice than it looks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storming_Dude

Agree, this seems way too clunky^^ Why are you not playing any Liliana main?



Should have mentioned it, I'm the one referenced in the MKM article so this is a fairly recent list of what I'm playing atm (few adjustments -1 Hymn +1 Liliana, SB: -2 TS +2 SP -1 Liliana +1 Sylvan Library) - So I've tested quite a lot of storm, that's were my request on your experiences with your removal-heavy version is coming from.

With regards to the MTGGoldfish-list, I tested quite some matches with a more tempo-heavy version (4 Stifles but also Mongoose etc.) but didn't like it too much as BUG seems to be better at proactivly disrupting our opponent instead to sitting back and reacting. In addition, I don't like the combination of Stifle and Discard as it's always a hard decision with high downside if you make the wrong call.

What are your thoughts?

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I'm not playing any llveil because there are 4 cc3 drops, and then I don't want to any other double black....I'm not playing stalker because of the same reason...
About 14 creatures....I've lost a lot of matches without any creature onto the battlefield...BUG isn't GRIXIS/RUG where I can play Bolt....So I MUST see at least 2-3 creatures in order to win the match...and then, If it is a TNN, it is very difficult to my opponent resolves that.
I decided to play 2 edicts over llveil-edict ability because of i.e. Mongoose, other gurmags, tnn, marit lage...
this is a list where 'I beat, beat, beat'...with sideboard I can resolve bad matchups... maybe adding 3 seize, 3 surgical for example...or dread of night for DT, or 3 bblossom against some matchups, in order to play on 2th turn.
I don't what could be the best configuration, but maindeck works very well.
So, what could be the best sideboard configuration?

ps: tonight (pracrice) I won 4-2 against grixis control, 3-1 against grixis shadow and then 2-1 against ub reanimator (all best of 3)...
with this sideboard: 3 bblossom, 3 surgical, 2 seize, 2 flusterstorm, 2 marsh casualties, 1 llhope, 1 needle, 1 beb.

another question: what do u think about 2 push 1 dismember instead of 3 push?

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
4 true-name nemesis
2 gurmag angler

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn to tourach
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
2 diabolic edict

SIDEBOARD
2 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 marsh casualties
1 sylvan library
1 liliana, the last hope
1 pithing needle
1 grafdigger's cage
1 blue elemental blast




I have tested a little your list and I can say I am impressed the deck crushes everything....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
4 true-name nemesis
2 gurmag angler

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn to tourach
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
2 diabolic edict

SIDEBOARD
2 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 marsh casualties
1 sylvan library
1 liliana, the last hope
1 pithing needle
1 grafdigger's cage
1 blue elemental blast




I have tested a little your list and I can say I am impressed the deck crushes everything....

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:laugh::laugh:
against which decks you played?

I tested on cockatrice against RUgdelver stoneblade variant grixis control and miracle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

I tested on cockatrice against RUgdelver stoneblade variant grixis control and miracle.

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can u make a small report about rug delver / stoneblade and grixis? with your choice for side in/out? What would you like to change from MD?

I did something like that RUg delver +2 fluster -2 HTT
stoneblade +1 library +2 bitterblossom -2 edict -1 fow
grixis control - 4 fow +2 blossom +1 library +1 last hope
miracle -2 wasteland -3 daze -3 push -2 edict + 2blossom +1 library +1 last hope +2 fluster +1 needle +2 surgical +1 seize

I played also against reanimator which I lost and moon stompy which I lost in 2/3 (that was close)

I have found maindeck to be very good, I don't like the seize in side, I think I would play something more focused on combo maybe mistcaller or more flustestorm/swan song.

Didn't brought marsh casualties but I suppose they are for elf and death and taxes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

I did something like that RUg delver +2 fluster -2 HTT
stoneblade +1 library +2 bitterblossom -2 edict -1 fow
grixis control - 4 fow +2 blossom +1 library +1 last hope
miracle -2 wasteland -3 daze -3 push -2 edict + 2blossom +1 library +1 last hope +2 fluster +1 needle +2 surgical +1 seize

I played also against reanimator which I lost and moon stompy which I lost in 2/3 (that was close)

I have found maindeck to be very good, I don't like the seize in side, I think I would play something more focused on combo maybe mistcaller or more flustestorm/swan song.

Didn't brought marsh casualties but I suppose they are for elf and death and taxes.

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Casualties is for elf,taxes,grixis pyromancer,affinity,zombi,storm/tes for empty the warrens,maybe infect,maybe goblin.... but I don't know if I can split 1 Marsh 1 Dread of Night.

About the sideboard, now I'm testing this one:
3 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 marsh casualties
2 liliana, the last hope

in order to have a good sideboard against all matchups.
About Red Stompy, unfortunately this is bad matchup...(before DRS was the same..)
About Reanimator, depends on his initial hand and how can make the fast combo.

What do u think about blossom...have u ever seen on T2?

what would you change in a meta (fnm, 10 people) with 2 dnt + elves ??? i would go for deluge for 1 edict and 1 liliana the last hope (buys back threats too) for 1 true-name

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tobyha

what would you change in a meta (fnm, 10 people) with 2 dnt + elves ??? i would go for deluge for 1 edict and 1 liliana the last hope (buys back threats too) for 1 true-name

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I think that deluge and golgari charm can't be put into this deck.
If there are some decks with dnt,elves,strix,other nemesis...you can add a marsh casualties maindeck...
In addition there is another option:
-1 diabolic edict | +1 darkblast | -1 true-name | +1 gurmag angler

or:

-1 tnn + 1 hope

or:

-2 tnn | +2 gurmag | +2 darkblast | -2 diabolic edict

On the other hand, you can add the 3th marsh casualties SB + 1 dread of night. If you know that there won't be any combo decks, you can remove 2 spell pierce in order to..

PS: I consider my list and how I would change with this meta.

i know, that it doesnt sound good to play toxic deluge, but if you draw it against dnt or elves - isn´t the blowout effect against them much higher than the loss of one true-name (maybe). i wouldnt use golgari charm or a 2nd deluge in the sb though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tobyha

i know, that it doesnt sound good to play toxic deluge, but if you draw it against dnt or elves - isn´t the blowout effect against them much higher than the loss of one true-name (maybe). i wouldnt use golgari charm or a 2nd deluge in the sb though.

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So, if u play 3-of you can add a toxic deluge as "save-game" into the sb. But with 4-of I don't know if it is the best option.
You can try, mate ! :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toffee

So, if u play 3-of you can add a toxic deluge as "save-game" into the sb. But with 4-of I don't know if it is the best option.
You can try, mate ! :tongue:

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In my experience, Toxic Deluge is not as awesome vs those decks as it seems
- Vs. Elves, -1/-1 is usually enough to wipe 90% of their board, thus MC and GC are good enough (and two mana sweeper are sometimes necessary when on the draw)
- Vs. DnT I found it often quiet hard to actually cast TD due the heavy denial + Thalia we're usually facing, in addition, -1/-1 is often also enough to deal with most threats so Edicts etc. can deal with the rest

In conculsion I would always stay with 2 sweepers for 2 mana (which one is depending on # of TNNs) + x LTLH, depending on your meta (most likely 2 in the described scenario)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storming_Dude

In my experience, Toxic Deluge is not as awesome vs those decks as it seems
- Vs. Elves, -1/-1 is usually enough to wipe 90% of their board, thus MC and GC are good enough (and two mana sweeper are sometimes necessary when on the draw)
- Vs. DnT I found it often quiet hard to actually cast TD due the heavy denial + Thalia we're usually facing, in addition, -1/-1 is often also enough to deal with most threats so Edicts etc. can deal with the rest

In conculsion I would always stay with 2 sweepers for 2 mana (which one is depending on # of TNNs) + x LTLH, depending on your meta (most likely 2 in the described scenario)

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I totally agree.
(1 Deluge was played when were played 4 drs, 4 delver, 4 goyf, 2 stalker...)

Hi guys,

I follow the forum for a long time to get ideas for my decks.
Here is my first post and report on the tournament that I participated with BUG Delver.

Decklist:

// 12 Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Tarmogoyf

// 22 Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle

// 19 Land
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

// 7 Sorcery
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder


// 5 Artifact
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Bitterblossom

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict

// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

It is a regional tournament, we have 58 players in this last event, follow the results:

BUG Delver 2 - 1 Death and Taxes
G1: Wastelands and Batterskull;
G2: Toxic, Goyf and Null Rod ended the game;
G3: 2 Delvers, 1 TNN and Stifle on Stoneforge.

BUG Delver 0 - 2 BR Reanimator

G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
G2: Unmask, Iona for Blue T1;

BUG Delver 1 - 2 BR Reanimator

G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
G2: Spit all hand T1, Extraction and Fow... Delver and Wastelands;
G3: T1: Petal, Ritual, Seize, Entombs, Reanimate Sire of Insanity.

BUG Delver 2 - 1 UB Reanimator

G1: Delver, TNN and Daze held the game in my favor;
G2: Griselbrand T3 with FOW;
G3: Goyf, Wastelands and Stifle in his fetches.

BUG Delver 2 - 0 RUG Delver

G1: Goyf and Angler just did not make it rain;
G2: Toxic and Angler. Massacre of the mongooses.

BUG Delver 2 - 1 Big Eldrazi

G1: TKS T2 (FOW), TKS T3 (Push), Karn T4;
G2: Damping Sphere T2, Angler and some Wastelands brought sunshine to the day;
G3: FOW on TKS T2, Damping Sphere T3 for the win... Delvers and Goyf finished the job.

BUG Delver 2 - 0 OmniTell

G1: Stifles and Wastelands;
G2: Delver T1, Flusterstorm T2, Dumping Sphere T3, GG.

YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acetrenb

Hi guys,

(...)

YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english :tongue:

---

Hey man, congratulations for this nice finish! Looks like your version of the deck is capable of being quite successful against the field. I noticed, that your deck follows 2 different paths, one: "Tap-Out" with big creatures and Hymn to Tourach an second: "Wait-and-react" with Stifle and counterspells. How did those kinda contradictory paths work out for you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JanoschEausH

Hey man, congratulations for this nice finish! Looks like your version of the deck is capable of being quite successful against the field. I noticed, that your deck follows 2 different paths, one: "Tap-Out" with big creatures and Hymn to Tourach an second: "Wait-and-react" with Stifle and counterspells. How did those kinda contradictory paths work out for you?

---

I prefer have consistency in the game, so I'm using Stifle and Hymn to slow down potential threats in the early game. I believe the real potential of BUG Delver is in the mid-late game.
Once you establish a threat (Delver, TNN, Goyf or Angler) and can "control" the opponent's field with Decay, Push, Daze, Wastes... becomes very difficult to lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acetrenb

Hi guys,

I follow the forum for a long time to get ideas for my decks.
Here is my first post and report on the tournament that I participated with BUG Delver.

Decklist:

// 12 Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Tarmogoyf

// 22 Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle

// 19 Land
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

// 7 Sorcery
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder


// 5 Artifact
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Bitterblossom

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict

// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope

// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

It is a regional tournament, we have 58 players in this last event, follow the results:

BUG Delver 2 - 1 Death and Taxes
G1: Wastelands and Batterskull;
G2: Toxic, Goyf and Null Rod ended the game;
G3: 2 Delvers, 1 TNN and Stifle on Stoneforge.

BUG Delver 0 - 2 BR Reanimator

G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
G2: Unmask, Iona for Blue T1;

BUG Delver 1 - 2 BR Reanimator

G1: Sire of Insanity T1;
G2: Spit all hand T1, Extraction and Fow... Delver and Wastelands;
G3: T1: Petal, Ritual, Seize, Entombs, Reanimate Sire of Insanity.

BUG Delver 2 - 1 UB Reanimator

G1: Delver, TNN and Daze held the game in my favor;
G2: Griselbrand T3 with FOW;
G3: Goyf, Wastelands and Stifle in his fetches.

BUG Delver 2 - 0 RUG Delver

G1: Goyf and Angler just did not make it rain;
G2: Toxic and Angler. Massacre of the mongooses.

BUG Delver 2 - 1 Big Eldrazi

G1: TKS T2 (FOW), TKS T3 (Push), Karn T4;
G2: Damping Sphere T2, Angler and some Wastelands brought sunshine to the day;
G3: FOW on TKS T2, Damping Sphere T3 for the win... Delvers and Goyf finished the job.

BUG Delver 2 - 0 OmniTell

G1: Stifles and Wastelands;
G2: Delver T1, Flusterstorm T2, Dumping Sphere T3, GG.

YEAH! Here in Brazil the field is all about Reanimators after DRS ban. Had 9 of them!
Damping Sphere against Eldrazi and OmniTell... sweet!

Well, that's it. Sorry for my poor english :tongue:

---

Cool report! Glad to see a BUG dude get such good result!

I'd like to ask 3 questions:
i. I didn't see thoughtseize or spell pierce in your decks.Is that because you chose Hymm+Stlfie?
ii. How did Damping Sphere beated Omni-tell? Do you think if we can apply the similar strategy to SnT?
iii. I saw you beated DNT with a great game, did you play with any U/W Stoneblade or Miracle decks? How does it feel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReinhardtGao

Cool report! Glad to see a BUG dude get such good result!

I'd like to ask 3 questions:
i. I didn't see thoughtseize or spell pierce in your decks.Is that because you chose Hymm+Stlfie?
ii. How did Damping Sphere beated Omni-tell? Do you think if we can apply the similar strategy to SnT?
iii. I saw you beated DNT with a great game, did you play with any U/W Stoneblade or Miracle decks? How does it feel?

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I. I thought a lot about what could be the best combination, so after many tests with my team I noticed that the power of a Hymn T2 is much superior than a Seize T1, that in addition to not disputing the drop1 with Delver.
About Stifle: I can not see how it does not fit on a deck like this. Break lands in a DRS-free format often wins the game.

II. OmniTell/SnT are decks that dig a lot to find their combo pieces: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Intuition... but the crucial difference is the mana base, what makes the deck fast besides the Petals are Tomb/City, which are disabled by Sphere.
With Sphere they lose at least 3-4 turns, because: Petal, pass the turn, Ponder, pass the turn, Petal pass the turn, Brainstorm. I'ts almost the same as Arcane Laboratory :laugh: They need to hold the combo to not pay the extra for Sphere. Meanwhile you're holding the counters and beating with Delver or Goyf.
When they finally get the combo, they need 1 extra mana to pay for FOW, or 2 extra mana for the Flusterstorm (assuming his only spell on the turn was SnT/Sneak Attack).

III. Miracles is no longer relevant here in Brazil, very difficult to appear in tournaments. But Stoneblade yes.
The list does relatively well, because we can delay Stoneforge with Decay or Stifle, Hymn is a very strong card against them as well. The big problem is in the amount of removals these decks carry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acetrenb

I. I thought a lot about what could be the best combination, so after many tests with my team I noticed that the power of a Hymn T2 is much superior than a Seize T1, that in addition to not disputing the drop1 with Delver.
About Stifle: I can not see how it does not fit on a deck like this. Break lands in a DRS-free format often wins the game.

II. OmniTell/SnT are decks that dig a lot to find their combo pieces: Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Intuition... but the crucial difference is the mana base, what makes the deck fast besides the Petals are Tomb/City, which are disabled by Sphere.
With Sphere they lose at least 3-4 turns, because: Petal, pass the turn, Ponder, pass the turn, Petal pass the turn, Brainstorm. I'ts almost the same as Arcane Laboratory :laugh: They need to hold the combo to not pay the extra for Sphere. Meanwhile you're holding the counters and beating with Delver or Goyf.
When they finally get the combo, they need 1 extra mana to pay for FOW, or 2 extra mana for the Flusterstorm (assuming his only spell on the turn was SnT/Sneak Attack).

III. Miracles is no longer relevant here in Brazil, very difficult to appear in tournaments. But Stoneblade yes.
The list does relatively well, because we can delay Stoneforge with Decay or Stifle, Hymn is a very strong card against them as well. The big problem is in the amount of removals these decks carry.

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Thanks dude. Sphere is really a great idea that I haven't thought of. Should Jam 1-2 copies against SNT&Eldrazi&MUD gurus next time:)

Not a fun of Bitterblossom, I might change it to something sylvan library, life from the loam or thoughtseize. In which game did you board-in BB? How did that feel?(I was once used it in a BUG midrange list against Grixis control. When I finally found and casted it, I was nearly dying...)

I am doing some testing also with UBshadow (list form LSV) and I believe it (shadow) is a better deck especially against the tier one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

I am doing some testing also with UBshadow (list form LSV) and I believe it (shadow) is a better deck especially against the tier one.

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i tested it yesterday, the matchup against dnt is horrendous preboard, but against other decks its such a fast disruptive deck, which gets to the board quicker and closes games faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tobyha

i tested it yesterday, the matchup against dnt is horrendous preboard, but against other decks its such a fast disruptive deck, which gets to the board quicker and closes games faster.

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Well, this might be true, but the one thing this deck is missing, where BUG Delver is stronger, is recovery - Once DS has been beaten to the ground it's dead. Thus I'm not agreeing with LSV opinion that DS is the only viable Delver version in Legacy going foward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReinhardtGao

Thanks dude. Sphere is really a great idea that I haven't thought of. Should Jam 1-2 copies against SNT&Eldrazi&MUD gurus next time:)

Not a fun of Bitterblossom, I might change it to something sylvan library, life from the loam or thoughtseize. In which game did you board-in BB? How did that feel?(I was once used it in a BUG midrange list against Grixis control. When I finally found and casted it, I was nearly dying...)

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I think it's very strong against hard control decks like Miracles, Grixis or even Stoneforge, DnT. Against DnT is almost GG if you find it T2 :cool:

But really, it's not a fixed slot in SB. I used to use Library, but the games I could side-in were so few that I preferred to remove it.

Hi mates, next week I'll have a big tournament and I would like to have your opinions about this:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
3 true-name nemesis
2 gurmag angler

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn to tourach
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
2 diabolic edict
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 liliana, the last hope
1 marsh casualties
1 dread of night

I think that meta will be: DT,Miracles,Grixis Control,RUG Delver,S&Sshow,Eldrazi,BR Reanimator (maybe some Red Stompy, and should be game loss hahaha)
I want 8 removals MD because of DT,RUG,Eldrazi.
MD: -1 TNN +1 Library in order to get the manipulation I need.
SB: -1 Marsh +1 Dread of night in order to increase the DNT matchup.

Maindeck the deck works very well..
- I tried stifle but it isn't too strong in my meta.
- I tried 11-12 creatures but I've seen they aren't enough.
- Bitterblossom can be a wincon on T2. I'm very impressed with it.
- Fluster + Pierce + Seize against control/combo are the best configuration from my tests.
- 3x Surgical are MUST HAVE!!
- MD 2 diabolic edict: with eldrazi, mongoose, DT creatures, Gurmag, or maybe Marit Lage....this card could win the game. In addition requires only 1 black.
- Split 3x Daze 3x Tourach: I think that 3x Daze is enough, because I want to see at least 1-of every game (on topdeck bad card obv). Tourach instead requires BB, so I would have only 3x BB md, because I have just 3x UU tnn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toffee

Hi mates, next week I'll have a big tournament and I would like to have your opinions about this:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
3 true-name nemesis
2 gurmag angler

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
3 daze
3 hymn to tourach
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
2 diabolic edict
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
2 thoughtseize
2 bitterblossom
2 liliana, the last hope
1 marsh casualties
1 dread of night

I think that meta will be: DT,Miracles,Grixis Control,RUG Delver,S&Sshow,Eldrazi,BR Reanimator (maybe some Red Stompy, and should be game loss hahaha)
I want 8 removals MD because of DT,RUG,Eldrazi.
MD: -1 TNN +1 Library in order to get the manipulation I need.
SB: -1 Marsh +1 Dread of night in order to increase the DNT matchup.

Maindeck the deck works very well..
- I tried stifle but it isn't too strong in my meta.
- I tried 11-12 creatures but I've seen they aren't enough.
- Bitterblossom can be a wincon on T2. I'm very impressed with it.
- Fluster + Pierce + Seize against control/combo are the best configuration from my tests.
- 3x Surgical are MUST HAVE!!
- MD 2 diabolic edict: with eldrazi, mongoose, DT creatures, Gurmag, or maybe Marit Lage....this card could win the game. In addition requires only 1 black.
- Split 3x Daze 3x Tourach: I think that 3x Daze is enough, because I want to see at least 1-of every game (on topdeck bad card obv). Tourach instead requires BB, so I would have only 3x BB md, because I have just 3x UU tnn.

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Thanks for the list - Couple of comments/thoughts for discussion
- Manabase: I think the 2nd Tropical should be a 4th U Sea, especially with 3 Hymns and 2 Lilis + MC from the Board
- Creatures: IMO, based on the MU you are expecting Tombstalker instead of Angler seems more reasonable as flying is huge against DnT, RUG, Elves, Grixis and Eldarzi and with 20 lands we should be able to get to the BB easily
- Spells: After some testing, I do like the 8 Removal and would keep it that way. The 9th Cantrip in form of Library is imo a bit over the top - If you want Library in you 75, cut one Ponder for it. The free slot could be used for LOTV as additional removal, a 4th Daze, MB Spell Pierce, MB Bitterblossom or an additional creature e.g. V Clique or simply TNN - so many options which all seem a bit better.
- Sideboard: I'm back and forth on Dread of Night but I guess if you want the hedge against DnT specifically, it should be 2 for the full blow out and getting it consitently. Even though I would recommend staying with just 2 MCs as you need consistent access to a sweeper vs. Elves (which at least in Germany is an always present threat)
- Bitterblossom: Another card I'm not sure about - Can be great but failed to impress me as much as G Cage, Needle, LftL and other options in this slot did - What is your SB plan on those cards (which MU, what to cut)? Maybe I'm just using them wrong and have to test again^^

Another deck we should expect to pop up more often is UB(g) Death's Shadow due to being promoted heavily and being a cheaper option for new players, what are your thoughts on this MU? For me it sometimes feels great, in other matches (when they are able to keep me of my 3rd land / deck bricks) it feels really oppresive...

Best of luck for the tournament!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storming_Dude

Thanks for the list - Couple of comments/thoughts for discussion
- Manabase: I think the 2nd Tropical should be a 4th U Sea, especially with 3 Hymns and 2 Lilis + MC from the Board
- Creatures: IMO, based on the MU you are expecting Tombstalker instead of Angler seems more reasonable as flying is huge against DnT, RUG, Elves, Grixis and Eldarzi and with 20 lands we should be able to get to the BB easily
- Spells: After some testing, I do like the 8 Removal and would keep it that way. The 9th Cantrip in form of Library is imo a bit over the top - If you want Library in you 75, cut one Ponder for it. The free slot could be used for LOTV as additional removal, a 4th Daze, MB Spell Pierce, MB Bitterblossom or an additional creature e.g. V Clique or simply TNN - so many options which all seem a bit better.
- Sideboard: I'm back and forth on Dread of Night but I guess if you want the hedge against DnT specifically, it should be 2 for the full blow out and getting it consitently. Even though I would recommend staying with just 2 MCs as you need consistent access to a sweeper vs. Elves (which at least in Germany is an always present threat)
- Bitterblossom: Another card I'm not sure about - Can be great but failed to impress me as much as G Cage, Needle, LftL and other options in this slot did - What is your SB plan on those cards (which MU, what to cut)? Maybe I'm just using them wrong and have to test again^^

Another deck we should expect to pop up more often is UB(g) Death's Shadow due to being promoted heavily and being a cheaper option for new players, what are your thoughts on this MU? For me it sometimes feels great, in other matches (when they are able to keep me of my 3rd land / deck bricks) it feels really oppresive...

Best of luck for the tournament!

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- I know about the 4th sea, but I have only 3-of. This is the reason to play Gurmag over Stalker...but in my tests with proxy sea, I hadn't the double BB for stalker when I drew Angler...
- About the free slot of Library: I don't want the 4th cc3 spell, and then I don't want the 4th daze for its drawback...(I will never cast TNN eheheh).
But MD Bblossom can be a good idea, nope?
- I don't understand about MCs...do u prefer the split 1DofNight-1MCs or 2MCs?
- About Blossom: I played it before DRS ban. Now I think that it could be another wincon.For example also against UBShadow

Against UBshadow this is a great matchup, unless he made daze,waste,waste,seize,seize etc etc... :laugh:

PS: this is my idea of sideboard: https://ibb.co/iOemtK