4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile DL
...
11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance DD

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1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile DL
I think you draw twice:
A OTP
A KoOB, WoP post.
If A play LRE, WoP sculler the path and draws. If A wait with Path, WoP plays sculler, sculler get path'ed and exile LRE, Boot Nipper and KoOB draw.

and

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance DD
You lose twice:
WoP OTP
T1 post, chronomaton.
T2 sculler takes sunlance to protect Nipper, Tylert plays traveller.
Boot Nipper deathtouch threatens to block chronomaton, but doomed traveller can attack: if he is blocked, the token flies FTW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I can only assume this means I was less slow than Reeplcheep and Tylert

6. H: OTP I play Elixir first. By activating Elixir EOT, I can always recast it as soon as I draw it, dodging Blackmail. Chain Lightning kills you and your guy. OTD you can Blackmail Elixir or a land, breaking the loop, and I Chain your guy to draw. WD 4-1

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H OTP, he can take mountain or chain and win, H OTD takes bog to prevent recursion. DL 1-4?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Knights of Ni"

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
That's me!

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
Stalker smash! 6-0

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Scavenger takes Borderpost, so no stalker OTD and no taste OTP. LL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

H OTP, he can take mountain or chain and win, H OTD takes bog to prevent recursion. DL 1-4?

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H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire

With H OTP I hide Mountain from Blackmail. If he takes Chain, I just play my 2 lands and Elixir and get Chain back to win. Instead he takes Bog or Elixir to stop my loop, but I can Chain his creature to draw.

With H OTD you're right, I forgot he could take my 2nd land and I can't Elixir it back, but I can Chain his creature to draw.
DD

I knew discard would be tough. I was hoping banning most good black common wincons would have discouraged the use of black discard, but Legionnaire and Tidehollow Sculler are creative ways around that!

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
2 threats and a removal spell? I don't see how I can beat that. LL

0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
if I FoW the border post, you don't cast another spell. WW

6-0

3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
2 threats and a removal spell? I don't see how I can beat that. LL

0-6

4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
This is me

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
if I FoW the border post, you don't cast another spell. WW

6-0

6. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
OTP: I can suspend my 3/3 and then you take my Guardian so I can't force or play a second creature. your creature wins the race and has First Strike. L
OTD: I can't beat Blackmail

0-6

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
FoW is unimpressive here, but I think I can force a draw by having a 3/3. After a certain point, I can't attack into the undead wolf and the Folk but the 3/3 plays defense so you can't attack. DD

2-2

8. silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring
Double removal and a resilient threat - can't beat that! LL

0-6

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I can always FoW the Elixir to stop the loop, but I can't revert Chain Lightning from killing my threat. DD

2-2

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
FoW beats Davriel. WW

6-0

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
I should always be able to FoW the Chronomaton and race the Traveler, and Sunlance is a blank. WW

6-0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

I did not want to tell you last round that your deck was suboptimal, but you found it out yourself, goodjob :)

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It wasn't my deck last time around, I actually borrowed it from silkster when I saw a chance to add a minor upgrade!


Total: 28 points

maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
Path is real good against Young Wolf and the Knight is too big for me. 0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
Folk blows up your Borderpost on my 2nd turn. OTP that means you can't cast anything else. OTD you can play Stalker but no Taste. I can use Revival to get Folk back so I have 2 threats to race your 1/1 Stalker. 6-0

3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
This is just like my matchup against Asthereal, except even worse somehow. 0-6

4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
I finally catch a small break here. FoW isn't enough to stop Young Wolf from landing, so eventually I end up with a 2/2 and a 1/1 vs your 3/3. You could try to use the Guardian as a threat instead of pitching it, but then I get to recycle one of my threats, so I don't think it makes a difference. Pretty sure this is 2-2

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
OTP Folk gets the Borderpost before you can do anything. OTD Folk lands before Sculler can take it, and then it can blow up Sculler. Young Wolf beats Boot Nipper. 6-0

6. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
Noxious "counters" Blackmail and then Folk blows up Legionnaire. 6-0

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
This is me :]

8. silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring
Not even close. 0-6

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I might be missing something but I think Noxious plus Scavenger Folk lets me catch the Elixir OTP. I play Folk, you kill it, I Noxious EOT (2 life) and draw+play Folk again, and now if you ever cast Elixir I can blow it up before you activate it. OTD you can lead with Elixir, I play Folk, you Chain Lightning and then Bog to force my Noxious, I draw and play Folk, and then you can activate Elixir and I can't win from there. 3-3 edit: You can pass turn 1 and always play Chain and Elixir on the same turn, so Folk never catches the Elixir. 0-6

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
I can't even beat the Grazer by itself. 0-6 I have 2 guys and Reep can only block 1 at a time, so I kill the planeswalker and eventually Reep. 6-0

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
This is somewhat tricky. On paper I have you covered (Noxious "trades" with Sunlance, Folk trades with Chronomaton, Young Wolf dying is better than Doomed Traveler dying), but I can't find any lines that actually let me win. Scavenger Folk and Chronomaton trade, but if you make sure that Doomed Traveler and Young Wolf trade (either by attacking first or blocking if I attack first), and then Sunlance the Wolf after it becomes a 2/2, I don't think I can win. You'll have a 1 turn lead attacking in the air, and I can't kill my Wolf again to win the race. 0-6 unless somebody can find a better line for me dte explains below, but I should be able to force a draw. 2-2

0+6+0+2+6+6+0+0+6+2 = 28

This is not the meta I was expecting this week, haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I might be missing something but I think Noxious plus Scavenger Folk lets me catch the Elixir OTP. I play Folk, you kill it, I Noxious EOT (2 life) and draw+play Folk again, and now if you ever cast Elixir I can blow it up before you activate it. OTD you can lead with Elixir, I play Folk, you Chain Lightning and then Bog to force my Noxious, I draw and play Folk, and then you can activate Elixir and I can't win from there. 3-3

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I sequence like this.
T1 - Bog tapped
T2 - Mountain. Chain either you or Scavenger (ignore Wolf). Elixir. (Turn A)
T3 - Upkeep activate Elixir. Gain 5 life. Draw 1 of the 2 cards. (Turn B)
T4 - Draw other card. Chain Lightning you or Scavenger. Elixir. (Turn A)
T5 - Turn B
T6 - Turn A
...

I alternate back and forth between Turn A and Turn B, always casting Chain into Elixir on the same turn, then activating on the next turn.

There should be no window for you to use Scavenger.
If you cast it in the early game (before Turn A) or between B and A, Chain Lightning kills it before Elixir lands.
If you cast it between A and B, due to summoning sickness and tapped mana, you can't activate it before I use Elixir on turn B upkeep, then it's exposed to Chain Lightning on my next turn A.

It doesn't matter when you use Noxious or when you cast Scavenger. Neither turn is enough of an opening.
Unless I am missing something?

Summoning sickness is enough for me to beat it. I can't beat O-Ring though, because I went with 2-mana instead of 3-mana. Replacing Bog with a bounceland would have netted me 10 more points! Bog turned out to be unnecessary tech against pseudo-mirrors. +5 life per turn and dodging all removal is also tech.

Asthereal's scores for round 3:

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
That's me, with a simple deck.
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
My removal isn't great against your threat. 0-6
3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
We trade resources. 2-2
4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
I have more resources. 6-0
5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
Uh... Sculler is weird against Path. So we trade resources. There's a line where I try for the win, but you're too far ahead in life to go for it. 2-2
6. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
I hide the land, and my guys beat yours, unless you take one of them, in which case I Path your guy and I'll be the only one with a threat. 6-0
7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
Path Wolf, Folk looks a bit silly against my team. Interesting tech, though I'm not sure what you were plotting against. 6-0
8. silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring
We trade all them resources. 2-2
9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
Hmm, you Chain my dudes and then me. I did not take this deck into account at all. Well done. 0-6
10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
My 3/3 dude should take down the planeswalker before I die to it. I did not expect a planeswalker though. Cool deck! 6-0
11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
Path Chrono, Sunlance can't hurt my team, my team > Traveler. 6-0

Total: 36 points, assuming I didn't miss anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
I can't even beat the Grazer by itself. 0-6

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You have two guys against his one 0/3 defender. Can't you just attack with both and slowly kill the planeswalker?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
I can't even beat the Grazer by itself. 0-6

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
This is somewhat tricky. On paper I have you covered (Noxious "trades" with Sunlance, Folk trades with Chronomaton, Young Wolf dying is better than Doomed Traveler dying), but I can't find any lines that actually let me win. Scavenger Folk and Chronomaton trade, but if you make sure that Doomed Traveler and Young Wolf trade (either by attacking first or blocking if I attack first), and then Sunlance the Wolf after it becomes a 2/2, I don't think I can win. You'll have a 1 turn lead attacking in the air, and I can't kill my Wolf again to win the race. 0-6 unless somebody can find a better line for me

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Vs Reeplcheep, you could DD if you just keep everything in hand. Actually Reeplcheep deck cannot win in goldfish. Edit: But you can also just WW by attacking with two dudes as Aestheral pointed out.

Vs Tylert, you can always draw by not attacking, if traveler attacks, you attack with both creatures (if chronomaton is played, scavenger kills it and noxious ring it back), so you would win the clock.
If scavenger is sunlanced, traveler cannot attack, otherwise young wolf can block traveler and win.
Young wolf cannot be sunlanced, or the 2/2 would win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I sequence like this.
T1 - Bog tapped
T2 - Mountain. Chain either you or Scavenger (ignore Wolf). Elixir. (Turn A)
T3 - Upkeep activate Elixir. Gain 5 life. Draw 1 of the 2 cards. (Turn B)
T4 - Draw other card. Chain Lightning you or Scavenger. Elixir. (Turn A)
T5 - Turn B
T6 - Turn A
...

I alternate back and forth between Turn A and Turn B, always casting Chain into Elixir on the same turn, then activating on the next turn.

There should be no window for you to use Scavenger.
If you cast it in the early game (before Turn A) or between B and A, Chain Lightning kills it before Elixir lands.
If you cast it between A and B, due to summoning sickness and tapped mana, you can't activate it before I use Elixir on turn B upkeep, then it's exposed to Chain Lightning on my next turn A.

It doesn't matter when you use Noxious or when you cast Scavenger. Neither turn is enough of an opening.
Unless I am missing something?

Summoning sickness is enough for me to beat it. I can't beat O-Ring though, because I didn't built with 3-mana instead of 2-mana. Replacing Bog with a bounceland would have netted me 10 more points! Bog turned out to be unnecessary tech against pseudo-mirrors.

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Ah OK. So you always cast Chain Lightning and Elixir on the same turn. Yeah, I think that works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

You have two guys against his one 0/3 defender. Can't you just attack with both and slowly kill the planeswalker?

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lol. You're right. Updating

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Vs Tylert, you can always draw by not attacking, if traveler attacks, you attack with both creatures (if chronomaton is played, scavenger kills it and noxious ring it back), so you would win the clock.
If scavenger is sunlanced, traveler cannot attack, otherwise young wolf can block traveler and win.
Young wolf cannot be sunlanced, or the 2/2 would win.

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OK, I think that makes sense. Just never expose the 2/2 Wolf to Sunlance, and attack back with two 1/1s if Doomed Traveler attacks me. If Folk gets Sunlanced, Noxious it back to trade with Chronomaton, and wait to block Traveler with Wolf. Seems like a draw. It's so close to a win for me but I think it just falls short. Updating

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
Round: Draws with 4x Basic Island.

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
lose to 3/3 0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
Loses unblockable.

3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
loses to 3/3. 0-6

4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
Loses to fow. 0-6

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
Loses to deathtouch 0-6

6. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
Loses to 3/1. 0-6

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
Loses to 2 attackers after you discard the revival. 0-6

8. silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring
Lose to eternalize. 0-6

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
Lose to elixir -> chainlightning davriel. 0-6

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
Lose to chronomaton 0-6.

Tried something experimental, got the clean sweep. 20 L. Definitely didn't expect so many 3 power attackers.

H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
Can't beat double threat and removal. 0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
I can actually snag the second mana, or the Stalker both on the Play and the Draw. 6-0

3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
I can take Path, but two 3/3s just stand off my 3/1 First Strike. 2-2

4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
I can Blackmail the Guardian, then the 3/3 doesn't beat my 3/1. 6-0

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
Pretty sure I can snag the second mana here no matter what, so then I win. 6-0

6. H: Bye, myself.

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
Yeah, Folk plus Revival means I can't win. 0-6

8. silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring
I can't beat this. 0-6

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I can force the draw here in both cases by taking the second mana. 2-2

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
I can take the bounceland and win from there. 6-0

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
On the Play I can take the Chrono and win. On the Draw, I lose. 3-3

33?

Me: silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Law-Rune Enforcer, Knight of Old Benalia, Path to Exile
Path to Exile is unfortunate removal for me. DD
2 points

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Island, Firewild Borderpost, Invisible Stalker, Taste for Mayhem
Hexproof. LL

3. dte: plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Knight of Old Benalia, path to exile
2 points

4. alphastryk: Plains, Knight of Old Benalia, Force of Will, Zealous Guardian
6 points

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
I can exile permanents on turns 5 and 9. You deal 0, 0, 2, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, on each of your turns on the play, which is as close as can be without getting there. If you try to hold the Sculler, I can play my creature or exile your Borderpost.
6 points

6. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
6 points

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
6 points

9. FTW: Bojuka Bog, Mountain, Elixir of Immortality, Chain Lightning
I thought this was a win until I saw the argument. Darn. Ironically, if one of my Oblivion Rings was a crappy piece of removal like [/cards]Path to Peace[/cards], I'd be able to cast, kill, and eternalize the Sentinel all at once to win.
2 points

10. Reeplcheep: Forest, Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage ,Golgari Rot-Farm ,Arboreal Grazer
It takes me 8 turns to eternalize and 2 turns to attack Davriel (cause blocking once), during which I take 16 damage, but then I attack comfortably.
6 points

11. Tylert: Plains, Chronomaton, Doomed Traveler, Sunlance
6 points

42 points. I was distracted by the possibility of Empty the Warrens. I found some ways to beat it, but decided that it wasn't worth it and I would just lose those matches. I briefly considered playing Path to Exile myself, but I decided that it wasn't worth the uncommon slot for me. I never considered that someone else might play it. :tongue: One of my versions of this deck would have scored 54 points, but it gave up some of the flexibility of the removal spell that I thought might have been relevant.

The Force of Will deck last week was mine. I knew that Zealous Guardian was an option, but I couldn't think of any circumstance where a 1/1 was better than a counterspell, so I was never planning to cast it. I know that Storm Crow was suboptimal, but I could only find one deck it made a difference against and that difference was only 1 point. I'm usually not a big fan of the Storm Crow meme, but the entire reason for the meme is that Storm Crow pitches to Force of Will, so I had to do it.

I'm trying to find a Strip Mine deck that works here, but even making one after the fact, I'm still only getting about 50%. One problem is that you draw against any opponent with a 1-mana removal spell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

One mismatch to be resolved. I could easily be wrong, but I don't see it yet.

Me: silkster: Fountain of Cho, Steadfast Sentinel, Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring

5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Fieldmist Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Boot Nipper
Mismatch: I can exile permanents on turns 5 and 9. You deal 0, 0, 2, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, on each of your turns on the play, which is as close as can be without getting there. If you try to hold the Sculler, I can play my creature or exile your Borderpost.
6 points

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W - Borderpost
S - Cho

W - Boot Nipper with deathtouch
S - 1 counter

W - Sculler, exiling O Ring [S=18]
S - 2 counters

W - [S=14]
S - 3 counters

W - [S=10]
S - Cast other O-Ring on Sculler, returning O-Ring to your hand (Wrath may have forgotten this part? Because without 2nd O-Ring you do draw)

W - [S=8]
S - 1 counter

W - [S=6]
S - 2 counter

W - [S=4]
S - 3 counter

W - [S=2]
S - 2nd O-Ring on Boot Nipper, then win

I missed that Steadfast Sentinel has vigilance, otherwise I would draw easily.

You know, I really should have predicted both the strength and prevalence of Knight of Old Benalia this round. After all, FTW called it. If I had, I might also have predicted that Path of Exile would be the removal of choice. I really thought Blackmail would be the most played card in the round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I was saving FoW for a later round but you let the cat out of the bag. I thought it wasn't good enough compared to other options like Mental Misstep and Cabal Therapy because the 2-for-1 really limits threat options, playing 1 1-drop common vs their 2 cards or their 2-drop.

I expected your deck to lose to the Chronomaton decks, but somehow they both played conditional removal you could beat. You also found a 1-mana 3/3 that we somehow forgot to ban earlier. I think that was your real edge here, not even the Force. Good find!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

You know, I really should have predicted both the strength and prevalence of Knight of Old Benalia this round. After all, FTW called it. If I had, I might also have predicted that Path of Exile would be the removal of choice. I really thought Blackmail would be the most played card in the round.

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I didn't want to spoil more until Knight was banned, but your FoW deck would have scored even more as another Knight deck in all 3 rounds. A 1-mana 3/3 is just that much better than the other common 1 drops left. Even Fourth Bridge Prowler is banned now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I didn't want to spoil more until Knight was banned, but your FoW deck would have scored even more as another Knight deck in all 3 rounds. A 1-mana 3/3 is just that much better than the other common 1 drops left. Even Fourth Bridge Prowler is banned now.

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You mean something like Knight-Knight-Path does better than Knight-Force in every week? I noticed that Knight-Force would have beat every deck in round 1 except the Lab Man (and my deck, which is why I chose my deck over it in the end), and several of those felt like it was because of the Force (Goblins, Aether Vial, Bant Sureblade, and Thunderclap). I was hoping to catch Borderpost, 2-drop, 2-drop decks, among others.

It's an interesting question to ask why something was good. In the last round of Deviant Legacy, I hit upon playing Tabernacle with Maze of Ith, and it crushed everything I could come up with except for City of Traitors decks. I figured there wouldn't be too many of those, but boy was I wrong. Had I realized that my real strength was the Maze of Ith, I could have just played two of those instead. I think I scored 1.6 for the round where double Maze would have scored 3.6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

7. maxx!: Forest, Scavenger Folk, Young Wolf, Noxious Revival
Path Wolf, Folk looks a bit silly against my team. Interesting tech, though I'm not sure what you were plotting against. 6-0

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I've had Scavenger Folk on my short-list of 1-drops because of the free wins against Borderposts, while also catching Chronomatons. I thought about playing it, but went with the more flexible Force of Will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

You mean something like Knight-Knight-Path does better than Knight-Force in every week? I noticed that Knight-Force would have beat every deck in round 1 except the Lab Man (and my deck, which is why I chose my deck over it in the end), and several of those felt like it was because of the Force (Goblins, Aether Vial, Bant Sureblade, and Thunderclap). I was hoping to catch Borderpost, 2-drop, 2-drop decks, among others.

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In Round 1 something like Knight-Mental Misstep-Sunlance/2nd Knight would have scored more than Knight-Force. I think Mental Misstep was better than Force, but your deck made Force look extra good because of Knight. The rest of us were just playing suboptimal 1 drops. Once you pointed out that we all missed a 1-mana 3/3, I'm not surprised it was commonly played this round. I almost played it too, except I didn't want to DD the pseudo-mirrors.

Standings for round 3:
1. silkster: 42 - 4,2
2. FTW: 39 - 3,9
3. Asthereal (TO): 36 - 3,6
3. GoblinSmashmaster: 36 - 3,6
5. dte: 32 - 3,2
6. H: 31 - 3,1
7. alphastryk: 28 - 2,8
7. maxx!: 28 - 2,8
9. Wrath of Pie: 21 - 2,1
10. Tylert: 13 - 1,3
11. Reeplcheep: 0 - 0

Which leads to these bannings:
Law-Rune Enforcer
Knight of Old Benalia
Path to Exile
Firewild Borderpost
Invisible Stalker
Taste for Mayhem
Fountain of Cho
Steadfast Sentinel
Oblivion Ring
Bojuka Bog
Elixir of Immortality
Chain Lightning

Season standings after round 3:
1. dte: 14,1
2. FTW: 12,9
3. silkster: 12,2
4. maxx!: 10,4
5. GoblinSmashmaster: 8,5
6. H: 7,3
7. alphastryk: 7,3
8. Wrath of Pie: 6,3
9. Asthereal (TO): 5,7
10. Tylert: 4,7
11. Reeplcheep: 4,4

So silk's win in round 3 allows him to join the fight at the top.

ROUND 4 OF SEASON 8: PEASANT CONTINUED BANNATHON has started.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 4, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 21st of October, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Terror, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S08R04 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition. :smile:

Happy deck designing everybody! :cool:

Back to my newfound home of eighth place, it seems.

I have been having a lot of success with tuning curses; I am just going to submit something that looks neat in this as I don't have time to gauntlet. Hopefully people appreciate the free points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I have been having a lot of success with tuning curses; I am just going to submit something that looks neat in this as I don't have time to gauntlet. Hopefully people appreciate the free points.

---

You're spending too much time watching Medea's stream :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I have been having a lot of success with tuning curses; I am just going to submit something that looks neat in this as I don't have time to gauntlet. Hopefully people appreciate the free points.

---

What does tuning curses mean? I've never heard anything like that.

I used to run gauntlets of all the decks I was considering, but they got really inbred. Then I started differentiating between what I might play and what I think others would play, to mixed success. Sometimes my gauntlets delude my thinking and I end up ditching the winning deck, like Nether Spirit+Mind Swords or Burning Inquiry. This is to say that sometimes impulsive first impressions are the way to go. I'm curious to see what people are going to bring this week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

What does tuning curses mean? I've never heard anything like that.

---

I meant refining my decklist here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...26#post1088326

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silkster

What does tuning curses mean? I've never heard anything like that.

---

He's talking Legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I meant refining my decklist here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...26#post1088326

---

Oh, that makes sense. I thought "tuning curses" was a metaphor for something and I couldn't figure out what. I forget that this forum has a purpose other than 4CB! :tongue: But that list looks really cool. Congrats on the perfect league and making the mothership lists! I have zero mtgo collection, but, if paper magic is ever a thing again, I'm not tooo far away from this list and would totally try it (mostly just Karns, Helms, curses, and recent stuff).

After the post about not having time and just submitting whatever, I got confused and submitted my deck early. What this means, though, is that I was disappointed today that the next set of lists isn't. Now I get to worry about my deck for another day.

Looks like we're complete, but my work day will be absolute chaos, so I'll probably only be able to post deck tonight... Sorry for the delay!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

Looks like we're complete, but my work day will be absolute chaos, so I'll probably only be able to post deck tonight... Sorry for the delay!

---

Inform work that Chaos Warp is not legal this round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Inform work that Chaos Warp is not legal this round.

---

Unfortunately Throes of Chaos is, and it can come back every day, even though it is not particularly great in the format.

DECKS FOR ROUND 4 OF SEASON 8: Peasant Continued Bannathon

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer
3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin
4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi
5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker
7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear
8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger
11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
We also have a new Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi

1. Asthereal (TO): I hide Plains from Blackmail. If you take a Knight, I Strip you off Legionnaire mana and win with the other Knight. If you take Strip Mine, double Knight just barely win the race at 5 life OTP and 2 life OTD. See math below. WW 6-0
2. dte: Strip Mine beats tapped land. WW 6-0
3. Reeplcheep: Cool tech! But Strip Mine kills your mana and Peppersmoke isn't enough. WW 6-0
5. alphastryk: See Asthereal. You have to Blackmail Strip Mine, then double Knight wins the race. WW 6-0
6. silkster: OTD I just lose. OTP I can suspend a Knight to eventually block and trade. DL 1-4
7. Wrath of Pie: We each only get one creature before getting Stripped. Bear races Knight, so I have to block to draw. DD 2-2
8. H: Strip Mine beats tapped land. WW 6-0
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Strip Mine beats tapped land. WW 6-0
10. maxx!: Strip Mine on tapped Tinder Farm (whether you play it first or second) forces you to Reclaim Tinder Farm and replay it tapped on turn 3, only making your 3/3 on turn 4, slow enough for double Knight to race. WW 6-0
11. Tylert: You get to cast 1 spell before eating Strip Mine. You can either Banquet one Knight or play a 1/1, but neither is enough to beat my 2nd Knight with 0 lands. WW 6-0

51 points (16 wins, 3 draws, 1 loss)

I didn't want to spoil this before but Strip Mine, Plains, and 2 copies of the 3/3 Knight would have dominated the last round. I tried the next best thing.
Wrath's might be even better without Suspend (e.g. he can block Shocker and then play the 2nd Bear to win).



Math vs Blackmail deck (Asthereal and Alphastryk)
A - Blackmail. I hide Plains & you take Strip Mine (if you take a Knight, Strip Mine stops your creature and the 2nd Knight wins)
F - Plains. Suspend Knight # 1 (3 counters)

A - Legionnaire [A = 18 life]
F - Suspend Knight #2 (3 counters, 2 counters)

A - Attack for 3 [F=17 / A=18]
F - (2 counters, 1 counter)

A - Attack for 3 [F=14 / A=18]
F - (1 counters, 0 counters) Haste knight attacks [F=14 / A=16]

A - Attack for 3 [F=11 / A=16]
F - 2nd resolves. Both attack [F=11 / A=12]

You can't block due to flying (and flanking!), so the race goes like this
F=8 / A=8
F=5 / A=4
F=2 / A=0
I'm even faster OTP

Strip mins returns!
I managed to send a deck first it seems :)
With a good reading of the meta, I play tapland:
2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
6/0. Tracer > blackmail, Hand smash. I do think Blackmail is the best unco of the format, that's why I played tracer.
6

3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin
6/0, Hand smash.
12

4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi
0/6. Strip mine.
12

5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
6/0. Tracer > blackmail, Hand smash.
18

6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker
0/6. Barbed Shocker > tapland.
18

7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear
0/6. Strip mine.
18

8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest
6/0, Hand smash.
24

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
0/6. Pseudo mirror, devastator > hand. I could double block devastator, but then die to legionnaire. I hesitated a lot between the fatties, and thought that the hand would save in some stupid situations. But very bad choice for the mirror, which I did not expect.
24

10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger
6/0, Hand smash.
30

11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
6/0, Hand smash.
36

I was planning to submit a strip mine deck, but changed my mind when I saw that Path to exile and Law-Rune Enforcer got banned, thinking it was fatties time. It was good to change my mind, my strip mine deck would have lost all mirrors :)

7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire DD
2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer WW
3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin WW
4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi DD - If FTW had effectively the same plan, that is usually a good sign.
5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire DD
6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker WL
8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest WW
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire WW
10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger DD
11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth WW

11w8d = 41 points

Flying turned out to be better than 2/2s for 1 mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dte

2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
0/6. Pseudo mirror, devastator > hand. I could double block devastator, but then die to legionnaire. I hesitated a lot between the fatties, and thought that the hand would save in some stupid situations. But very bad choice for the mirror, which I did not expect.
24

---

I doubt anyone in the entire group expected a Channel mirror. This is hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

I doubt anyone in the entire group expected a Channel mirror. This is hilarious.

---

Annihilator should do things in that matchup, but it is indeed hilarious.

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Bad Timing"

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
Blackmail 2-2

2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer
Eldrazi smash! 6-0

3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin
Eldrazi smash! 6-0

4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi
Strip Mine 0-6

5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
Blackmail 2-2

6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker
Shocker smash :( 0-6

7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear
Strip Mine 0-6

8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest
Eldrazi smash 6-0

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
That's me!

10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger
Eldrazi smash 6-0

11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
Eldrazi smash 6-0

Total: 34 points

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
The mirror always results in DD - the place OTD hides Blackmail and we each take the other's threat.

2-2

2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer
You can always hide the land from Blackmail, which is enough. LL

0-6

3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin
OTP: you have to hide Vault of Whispers from Blackmail or you never do anything. I can take your threat to force a draw, but I can't win. D
OTD: same as a above but Vault is "hidden" by being in play. D

2-2

4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi
2 threats I can't block and Strip Mine. Can't get there even in a race (taking Strip Mine with Blackmail, since you have to hide the Plains) although it is close. LL
0-6

5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
This is me

6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker
Wow, I remember Barbed Shocker from another round - deviant legacy I think?
OTP: I can take any 1 card with Blackmail and that's enough. W
OTD: I lose my hand to Shocker. L

3-3

7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear
I think I always force a draw - if you hide Strip Mine from Blackmail, I can take the Island and prevent your threats. If you let me take Strip Mine instead, I make a 3/1 with First Strike and sit on defense all day to force the draw. Don't think its meaningfully different play vs draw. DD

2-2

8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest
That's a lot of threats! You'll always have to hide the land from Blackmail, so I'll get to take the wall away to make it a race. The fastest way you can get rid of my first striker is by making 4 squirrels for 6 mana on your turn 7. I'll be playing my threat on my turn 2, and have to attack 7 times to win. Thats never fast enough. LL

0-6

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
You always hide the land from Blackmail, leaving my to take Channel or the Eldrazi. Either way, we end up both with Legionaries so its a draw. DD

2-2

10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger
Interesting, nothing I can take with Blackmail does much at all. On the other hand, my worst cast I can force a draw by having a first striker. We both produce our threats on turn 2 (I couldn't find a way to slow yours down a turn but I might have missed it). That means when I'm OTP I'm attacking first so I can eventually force a block, and you can't grind Reclaim every turn so that's enough. When I'm OTD however, you're winning the race so I'm forced to go on defense. WD

4-1

11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
You always hide your Swamp from Blackmail, and Unearh always gets back Chronomaton so the only meaningful thing I can take is Wretched Banquet. Unfortunately, I can't beat Chronomaton ever. LL

0-6

Total: 15 points

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

1. Asthereal (TO): Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
The mirror always results in DD - the place OTD hides Blackmail and we each take the other's threat.

2-2

2. dte: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Hand of Emrakul, Nantuko Tracer
You can always hide the land from Blackmail, which is enough. LL

0-6

3. Reeplcheep: Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin
OTP: you have to hide Vault of Whispers from Blackmail or you never do anything. I can take your threat to force a draw, but I can't win. D
OTD: same as a above but Vault is "hidden" by being in play. D

2-2

4. FTW: Strip Mine, Plains, Knight of Sursi, Knight of Sursi
2 threats I can't block and Strip Mine. Can't get there even in a race (taking Strip Mine with Blackmail, since you have to hide the Plains) although it is close. LL
0-6

5. alphastryk: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
This is me

6. silkster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Barbed Shocker
Wow, I remember Barbed Shocker from another round - deviant legacy I think?
OTP: I can take any 1 card with Blackmail and that's enough. W
OTD: I lose my hand to Shocker. L

3-3

7. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Island, Phantasmal Bear, Phantasmal Bear
I think I always force a draw - if you hide Strip Mine from Blackmail, I can take the Island and prevent your threats. If you let me take Strip Mine instead, I make a 3/1 with First Strike and sit on defense all day to force the draw. Don't think its meaningfully different play vs draw. DD

2-2

8. H: Rushwood Grove, Vine Trellis, Elephant Ambush, Acorn Harvest
That's a lot of threats! You'll always have to hide the land from Blackmail, so I'll get to take the wall away to make it a race. The fastest way you can get rid of my first striker is by making 4 squirrels for 6 mana on your turn 7. I'll be playing my threat on my turn 2, and have to attack 7 times to win. Thats never fast enough. LL

0-6

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
You always hide the land from Blackmail, leaving my to take Channel or the Eldrazi. Either way, we end up both with Legionaries so its a draw. DD

2-2

10. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Farm, Reclaim, Anurid Scavenger
Interesting, nothing I can take with Blackmail does much at all. On the other hand, my worst cast I can force a draw by having a first striker. We both produce our threats on turn 2 (I couldn't find a way to slow yours down a turn but I might have missed it). That means when I'm OTP I'm attacking first so I can eventually force a block, and you can't grind Reclaim every turn so that's enough. When I'm OTD however, you're winning the race so I'm forced to go on defense. WD

4-1

11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
You always hide your Swamp from Blackmail, and Unearh always gets back Chronomaton so the only meaningful thing I can take is Wretched Banquet. Unfortunately, I can't beat Chronomaton ever. LL

0-6

Total: 15 points

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I somewhat presumptiously presume I score the same 15 points. :smile: