[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

4 underground sea
2 tropical island
1 bayou
4 verdant catacombs
4 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
4 wasteland
-
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
2 jace, the mind sculptor
2 snuff out
1 go for the throat
1 dark blast
4 force of will
4 mental misstep
3 daze
2 stifle
4 hymn to tourach
_
4 tarmogoyf
4 tombstalker
side:
2 diablic edict(NO RUG/agro decks)
2 ghastly demise(agro decks)
2 duress(combo/control)
3 krosan grip(equipment killer+random artifact hate)
2 extirpate (grave hate/helps vs combo)
1 tormod's crypt (grave hate)
2 thrun, the last troll (vs uw stonestill/ubg still)
1 life from the loam (vs landstills/agro loams)

So that is im playing right now.My meta is mostly uw stonestill, no rug, hive mind.
Obviously a real pain are uw stonestills.My deck got only 8 threats, they can easily deal with (removal/counterspells).And if they get batterskull into play i need at least 2 creatures in play to deal with it.
Any ideas what to fix here?Personaly im thinking about adding Kira and Trygon predator main deck, just dont know what to remove=/

anyone American feel like picking up ye olde stifles and punishing all those annoying hive mind decks at the starcitygames. Meta currently is almost without merfolk and even U/W landstill is on the retreat.

As for landstill testing, might i suggest cutting the hymns and replacing them with some mix of thoughtseize, spell pierce and spell snare. Do keep the stifles though, they combine with daze to give you daze protection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goddik

anyone American feel like picking up ye olde stifles and punishing all those annoying hive mind decks at the starcitygames. Meta currently is almost without merfolk and even U/W landstill is on the retreat.

As for landstill testing, might i suggest cutting the hymns and replacing them with some mix of thoughtseize, spell pierce and spell snare. Do keep the stifles though, they combine with daze to give you daze protection.

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I'll agree Spell Snare and Stifle are looking really solid at the moment. especially in conjunction where you have 6-8 Turn 1 instants - some of which are better on the play and others on the draw.

Would some of you more experienced TA players mind giving some advice on the Ubgx Landstill matchup? I have been having some problems with this matchup and I wanted to know if there is something I could do to improve it G1. Heres my list for reference:

Team America (60)

Creatures 8
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker

Enchantments 2
2 Sylvan Library

Permission 15
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Stifle
3 Daze

Disruption 4
4 Hymn to Tourach

Cantrips 7
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Removal 5
2 Snuff Out
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Go for the Throat

Lands 19
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Side Board 15
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Life from the Loam
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Perish
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Explosives

Also heres a question, if they land a standstill on an empty board G1 with no factories in play and I am holding a wasteland among other things (lets say we each have several cards in hand) would it be advisable to try and wait them out?

For example, should I try "draw-go" multiple times and then break the standstill at the beginning of their end step once we both reach 6-7 cards to mitigate the card advantage over me?

This situation has come up multiple times and the only other decent alternative I can find is to cast hymn or perhaps library and pay some life, but lets assume here that I dont have either of these. Is there another option I am not seeing here?

Your list should be pretty good against Ubx-Landstill preboard. I wouldn't change anything here besides playing Dismember instead of Snuff Out but that's just personal preference. All you have to do is playing a bit more defensive against this deck and Hymn them a few times before you cast one of your creatures.

Regarding your sideboard i strongly recommend you to play at least two Jace, the Mind Sculptor and perhaps one Life from the Loam. They are both very good against Ubx-Landstill and can help you in so many other matchups.

By the way... Why are you playing Relic of Progenitus in your Sideboard? I don't think it's a good idea to play this card in TA.

Regarding Standstill: It's almost always better to wait a few turns till they reach 7-8 cards. All you have to do is casting a Brainstorm eot and they'll have to discard four cards. It's really easy to play against Standstill, just don't get out of patience. If you cast a spell during your turn they'll get full value out of their Standstill.

Spike- Honestly I hadnt even considered Dismember but I suppose it does have its merits vs. bob/stalker, I do really like the tempo of Snuff Out though so I will probably stick with that for now.
I am actually trying to fit loam in as we speak and I have an unhealthy hate of jace TMS but I suppose I could rethink that...a little :)
As for Relic I have found the slow grind ability to be excellent. I would probably even play 2 except that 2 potential exile grave effects may be too much for this deck at times. That and crypt lets me diversify while also dodging daze and misstep.
Thanks for the tips with Standstill, it seems like I am on the right track but for whatever reason that deck always gives me problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombstalker

..Standstill Questions...

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Unfortunately there is no one great answer to playing against Standstill. It depends a lot on what you have in hand, and how spent their current hand is already.

If you have no way to apply pressure (and are under no pressure) it is mostly correct to wait it out until you're both at 7 cards, then break it EOT with a Brainstorm so you end up with more cards than them. Unfortunately while you have mitigated the card advantage, you are still left in the situation of being in turn 5 or 6 against a late game oriented deck with a full grip, but it's often better than being mid-game down 3-4 cards.

There are situations though, where you have a threat you can drop, along with the ability to keep them on the back-foot at 1 or 2 lands. In these situations it can be right to break the Standstill in order to keep your tempo plan alive, and just not let them get into the late game.

How do you guys think Team America stands in today's metagame. Hive Mind decks are on the rise and are good preys for Team America. Plus Zoo decks see a lot of play and are strong against Merfolk, this could also lead to a diminish in Merfolk decks.

I was aldo wondering why don't people play Dark Confidants in Team America. Seems like it could use the card advantage combined with Jaces.

Some versions of TA do play bob, usually in place of Tombstalker although a few still keep stalker in as a 2of. This entire thread is full of that question every few pages Lol. Most people have come to the conclusion that bob lists are more dark thresh oriented since he dictates more than a few changes in your list and doesnt jive well with FoW, Snuff Out, Tombstalker, Jace, etc. On top of those drawbacks he also doesnt provide any sort of relevant clock. Personally I have tried lists with confidant and even some that also included tombstalker + confidant and while these lists do seem to functon reasonably well, they just arent the same as the ones with the traditional creature suite.
I recently came around to the sad fact that confidant just doesnt fit here in TA. If you really want more card advantage you can always up your count of Sylvan Library as I did. That card is simply amazing and more survivable than confidant.

In regards to Landstill there are a couple of cards that can work wonders. One is Thrun out of the board. He comes and goes week to week for me, but if you can manage to get the the mana on line for him they have a very difficult time dealing with him.

Another card I have been playing main deck and has been doing wonders for me is Vendellion Clique. With the meta how it is, I do not think there is any reason to not run him main. Try cutting a removal spell, a library, and/or a Tombstalker for a couple. He's very good in response to a Staindstill, Show and Tell, and after a resolved Stoneforge. He even has splash damage against aggro, being able to flash in and block, I was unimpressed with him 3 months ago, but right now he is an all star.

I don't know if your running basics because of affordability issues, but having all the duals is quite necessary. If you are running basics to avoid hate like Blood Moon, I would run an island since you can cantrip into the answer you need. I understand what you have lets you cast pulse under a moon effect and avoid Lord of Atlantis, it just seems quite loose to me.

I also agree with not running Relic in this deck. Try out spell bomb, it has built in tempo!

Just my 2 cents

Worm1605- Thanks for the suggestions. I dont currently own Thrun but he's on my list to buy so ill test him once I get one. I was running clique in the main and it seemed to perform better for me from the side but that was in a different build then what im using now so I may test it main again. Honestly if I dropped anything it would probably be a single Stifle or a removal, not sure though.

RE: the mana base, this is something I have been testing. I really dont like the lists that employ 22 lands and higher cost threats main as I always seem to draw too many lands.
So far 19 has done very well for me, although this is in part because I have dropped almost all spells above 2cc, which is also why I had moved clique to the side. I noticed most of my matches where clique shines my manabase is not at risk (NO RUG, SNT HM, reanimator etc) so it is ok to board them in with the lower land count that I run. The main exception being landstill.

I am not really on a budget (dont tell my wife that) but rather I have been testing with the basics and as you say they are a little...loose. The basics keep my removal live against moon effects and make Path to Exile hurt a little less. The forest also means I can run fewer green sources and not have to worry about being kept off of green by wasteland. Vindicate is another story but at least that can be countered.
The forest has been stellar although the swamp ive found to be a pain from time to time.

I may switch the swamp back out for a Tropical Island, although id actually probably prefer a 2nd Bayou as its pretty rare that id rather see the trop at all. That being said neither option really helps vs wasteland on my green sources and I really dont like half my win conditions and my draw engine getting denied. Anyone else have this problem when running all nonbasics?

Another thought I just had would be to trade the swamp for an island and trade Snuff Out for Dismember as suggested earlier. Any thoughts on this? Snuff out is great though so that would be a hard choice for me.

Lastly I have updated my sideboard in the list above with an Extirpate and a Life from the Loam. I have also dropped Relic, for now although I really like the slow grind if its dropped early. Very pleased with these changes so far.

I'm also thinking about the addition of a few basics.
Especially a Forest when using Thrun SB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Worm1605

I don't know if your running basics because of affordability issues, but having all the duals is quite necessary. If you are running basics to avoid hate like Blood Moon, I would run an island since you can cantrip into the answer you need.

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I don't get it. You cantrip in something you still can't cast?
Unless it's magus of the moon and you can actually find you 1-off dismember in your 60 of course.

Also you get some benefits like Tombstalker said (path to exile finds you a land actually).

Going to a tournament in a couple of weeks, and Team America is one of the options I have been playing a lot lately, and it's certainly one of the decks I consider bringing. Here's my current list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

4 Mental Misstep
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Smother
2 Dismember

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou


SB:
4 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Darkblast
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Tormod's Crypt


Overall, it feels pretty solid. There are really only two flex slots in the maindeck, the Clique (who have been so-so in some matches and Tombstalker #5 in others) and the Preordain (which has really only served as a placeholder for other action cards). I might swap either of them for Daze #4, and I would like to have a 20th land in there, a Bayou to be specific, if I can get my hands on one.

The sideboard is okay as well, I might try to fit two Jaces in there, instead of 1 Spell Pierce and the Trap.

From what other regulars play, it is extremely difficult to predict what will show up, since there are many comitted Legacy players in the area with large cards pools, and everyone in my play group (who will show up) has enough cards to build at least three or four decks. Therefor, I am assuming an unknown meta regarding the sideboard.

Purgatory- I really like your list! Whats your experience with Dismember as opposed to Snuff Out?
Also how useful have you found Submerge from the board? I could see this as a 1-2 of but 3 seems like too many slots to use up, or am I missing something? Id say the same goes for Spell Pierce.

With NOpro and Emrakul being so popular lately I would consider squeezing in a pair of Diabolic Edicts and maybe a Perish as well. I also like Phyrexian Metamorph for these matchups and it doubles as an out against most of Reanimators targets.

lastly I havent used Preordain in TA but as the 9th cantrip it really seems like a card you could cut for a 5th removal (I like Maelstrom Pulse) or a Sylvan Library. Just a thought.

On another note Ive recently been running Life from the Loam in my board and it hasnt really been as good as expected, mostly because its too clunky for us. Im actually considering swapping it out for a 1-of Beast Within. Beast Within has potential as a catch all, I believe, and would give me 2 SB answers to Iona on black. Anyone tried this card out from the side?

I could try to squeeze in a couple of Edicts in there, good suggestion. However, in my experience against NO RUG, for example, I just board in Darkblast and nail their manlands and mana dorks and they have a tough time reaching 2GG, let alone resolve a Natural Order. In fact, Darkblast has been a real house against some decks.

I like Dismember a lot, though the choice of removal suite is up to personal preference, imo. I haven't considered Metamorph at all, that's another option to test then :)

Thanks for your feedback.

I used to run Darkblast maindeck and when it was good it was simply amazing but every now and again it cost me a game when I wished it was a full removal so I finally ended up dropping it. Darkblast is house against NO RUG though since it kills almost every creature they run sans progenitus/goyf. Im glad youve had good success keeping them from NO and thats probably due to multiple Darkblasts. Personally though I havent had much luck with mana denial against them so I board in at least 5 answers to Progenitus just in case :)

I would definitely look to fit a couple non-target removal though because in addition to progenitus and emrakul cards like thrun, kira, mirran crusader, inkwell leviathan etc can be a real pain. Anyway good luck to you.

Thinking of bringing this deck to the next scg tournament. However with all the aggro in the Richmond top8 could this deck be a good choice? If people play combo to beat the aggro it will be awesome but if everyone goes aggro.. :(

You know what answers iona on black real good? Jace.

I played maelstrom pulse in the legacy champs because I was paranoid about jace but I hated it all day. I think either a v. clique or just another removal spell would be better. Diabolic edict is pretty good. If you're not playing 4 daze I think you should be. That card is as good as it's ever been. Darkblast is still sick, not quite good enough to maindeck but I think it's getting pretty close.

If you're worried about aggro, probably just devote more SB space to it. I usually have 5 -8 slots in my board for aggro decks, that seems to do them pretty good. I assume by aggro you mean zoo or merfolk.

@Purgatory

I've been testing a list very similar to yours after deciding on the classical build. My main changes are 2 Jaces instead of your 2 one-ofs and I replace 1 Stifle with one more Fetchland.


If I can't close the deal in the early to mid game Jace is very good. If I'm already on a roll in the early game and have a Jace in hand I can use it as FoW fodder or can shuffle it into the deck with Brainstorms. I however don't feel 20 lands is the right number to support Jace but the list is quite tight to make room for much change at this point.

@Purgatory

I've been testing a list very similar to yours after deciding on the classical build. My main changes are 2 Jaces instead of your 2 one-ofs and I replace 1 Stifle with one more Fetchland.


If I can't close the deal in the early to mid game Jace is very good. If I'm already on a roll in the early game and have a Jace in hand I can use it as FoW fodder or can shuffle it into the deck with Brainstorms. I however don't feel 20 lands is the right number to support Jace but the list is quite tight to make room for much change at this point.