[Deck] Affinity

I played the Ancient Tomb manabase last night. I wanted to revisit the SB Chalice plan, and the Ancient Tomb manabase is the best manabase in Affinity suitable to utilize that option. I also wanted to try out Spine of Ish Sah lol. It's a pretty hilarious card, and I theorized that I could somehow hardcast it if I had Tombs on the board - and it did happen!

Lands
12 Artifact Lands (Esper)
4 Tomb
8 mana rocks
1 Mantle

Creatures
8 Cheeri0s
4 Ravager
4 SFM
4 Champ
3 Skirge

Business
4 Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezz
1 SoFI

SB
4 Chalice
3 Cage
3 Spine
2 Canonist
1 Tezz
1 Karakas
1 Jitte

Round 1: Alex (BUG Delver) 1-2
Game 1 - I win the usual way of applying too much pressure.
Game 2 - This is why I hate Ancient Tomb. He draws two Wastelands. I don't get mana screwed, but I'm just saying, that is why I don't like Ancient Tomb. This is also why I hate Chalice, because I draw it when it's too late, in game states where I would rather have something as slow as Tezz.
Game 3 - I durdled way too much and fail to draw any business. It happens.

0-1

Round 2: Nick (Mono-green ramp) 2-0
Not much to talk about here. Nick's deck is more or less casual so the games were really short.

1-1

Round 3: Miles (Goblins) 2-1
Game 1: He uses Tuk Tuk to nuke my SoFI, but I get Tezz down, and I alpha strike with Tezz's -1 targeting Ornithopter and distributing Ravager counters. Apparently, he would have won next turn or I wouldn't have been able to win if I hadn't gone for it because he was going to get Kiki-Jiki and Tuk Tuk online :eek:
Game 2: He wastes me twice on Ancient Tomb (:mad: This is why I dislike Ancient Tomb! Being griefed on mana happens with this deck if every one of your lands can be nuked by Wasteland!), and then shortly gets Tuk-Tuk + Kiki-Jiki. Game over.
Game 3: I get Jitte out. Fast. He can't win.

2-1

Round 4: Jeremy (Miracles) 2-1
Game 1: I win with pressure, except I give him an extra turn because I'm at 4-6 life and I chose not to play a Plating FTW because I didn't want to lose 2 life AND walk into removal. I still should've went for it, because if he used STP, I would've gained life that way, and I still would've been able to use my Tombs. Again, I wouldn't have had to make those decisions if I wasn't running Ancient Tomb in the first place.
Game 2: He Enlightened Tutors for Serenity. I still went for a SOFI-equipped strike. My friend Jeremiah remarked "this man has some cajones." I lose obviously. I ask Jeremy if I should bring in Spine against him. He says if I can cast it, it's in the realm of possibility. I take his advice.
Game 3: And I win with Spine, by topdecking Ancient Tomb to cast it, targeting his Rest in Peace, the turn before he was going to cast Helm. LOLOLOL. Oh wait, I'm not done. After I nuke Rest in Peace, I use Ravager to sacrifice Spine EOT. What happens, you ask? Spine goes back to my hand. Next turn, Spine again. He STPs my Ravager, but then I play another one. I don't remember the sequence, but he also played Supreme Verdict and Terminus that game. You know how much you overwhelmed Miracles if you still won after facing two of their mass removals. That was a fun match and a great way to cap off the night.

3-1 (won a Spanish Canonist!)

Notes:

- I hate Ancient Tomb. As far as big tourneys go, I am sticking with what I feel most comfortable with and thus sticking with Citadels. However, as weeklies go, I'm going to keep testing the Tomb manabase because there's Elves and Cloudpost in my metagame and I think Chalice is one of the best SB options.
- SoFI is SOOOO good.
- Jitte is still needed in the SB as well.
- Remember the triggers of Spine leaving the battlefield. Any transition of play after neglecting to return it to your hand, say playing a land, leaves Spine in the grave. Jeremy warned me about this, so I will take this to heart.
- Must get the Born of the Gods art for Springleaf Drum. Sorry, that was a note to myself.

Hi, guys. Been reading the forums for awhile, and just picked up Ian Anderson's deck yesterday. Looking forward to playing with it. :)

Meant to write this earlier, but I played at $30 entry tournament during a big snowstorm which resulted in an attendance of only 15 people. I finished in 5th place, winning a Rishadan Port for all of my troubles getting to and out of the event.

The list is essentially identical to the Tomb list I posted earlier, except I exchanged the Tombs for Darksteel Citadel. And I put back O-Rings and took out Spines, although my match against Cloudpost demonstrated how much better Spine would've been.

Round 1: John (BW Standard Reanimator) 2-0
Nothing much to say. He just built the deck and is generally new to Legacy. He didn't realize that searching for Emrakul with Buried Alive would trigger Emrakul's shuffling ability which would undo all of the gravedigging he was doing with Buried Alive. Oops.

Round 2: Jeremiah (Cloudpost) 1-1-1 aka DRAW
Game 1 it's nothing more than the usual "Show and Tell, Primeval Titan?" and I promptly lose. Game 2 I pull out a win without even using Tezzeret, which was surprising to me. The reason we draw is because regrettably, I sometimes tank too hard when playing against control, and as a result, I brought both me and Jeremiah to "turns," and on turn 5, Jeremiah has me on no permanents, but he can only attack me to 1 life with Ulamog. He asks if I want to scoop and much to his chagrin, I decline. We are friends and under different circumstances, such as if we were in turns on Round 4-5 and I was dead to advance and he needed the win to Top 8, I would've scooped since we're friends. But not on Round 2, even if it was my fault that we went into time in the first place. I felt a little bad and Jeremiah was initially pissed, but we're cool now, considering he ended up winning the tournament anyway :laugh:.

Round 3: Jason (Homebrew/Standard playable BR deck)
A bunch of the people who showed up happen to work at the store, and some of them don't even play Legacy, but entered in the tournament anyway to show up and have a good time, which I totally admire. Jason was probably one of the best guys to face after my awkward situation with Jeremiah, because we just talked a little and went about our match as casual as could be. I beat him 2-0. I'm just too fast for most Standard-legal decks, so I never usually end up seeing their actual game plan in games.

Round 4 (I can't even remember if we went 4-5 rounds, but it was 15 ppl, so likely 4): Glenn (UR Delver)
Game 1, in my opinion he makes a mistake to Daze my Vault SKirge, because I was tied on two mana, and I had a Plating in hand. I just put so much pressure that even if a stacked graveyard and active Grim Lavamancer, he can't do a thing.
Game 2, I just have mana backup against Daze and resolve SFM to find Jitte. He kills SFM, but it doesn't matter as long as I resolve Champ, which I do, and then I go to down, and even have counters to protect me when he tries to kill me with Pyromancer tokens.

Top 8: Semifinals - Wally (Elves, Homebrew version but still combo)
I lose 0-2. Instead of using Glimpse or Natural Order game 2, he just plays many elves on turn 2 with just Birchlore Rangers, and then uses a Druid guy that draws him cards every time a Druid ETBs. I mulliganed to a turn 2 SFM, but it was astonishing how little Jitte did in that game all because of that turn 2. This is why Mox Opal is the best card in the Affinity deck, because if I had that in the opener, I would've turn 1 SFM and attacked with Jitte sooner.

I'm still a happy camper, because I win a Rishadan Port for 5th. Great times!

Anything I could take away from the experience:

- Be better with watching the clock and pacing my play.
- In small tournaments, if I'm expecting at least 2 bad control matchups, such as Cloudpost or Miracles, it's probably wise to metagame and include the 4th Tezzeret MD.
- I need to redraft my plan against Elves, without having to rely on drawing Chalice in my opening hand.

I really like Zealous Persecution against Elves. That and Canonist are a pretty good plan against them, but I thought SFM was too slow. Elves can go off FAST, so I generally consider it more of a combo deck, so I side out all my slow stuff.

Still not sure about Chalices. I'm not running them, so I switched out my Ancient Tombs for Citadels, too. Got blown out by Wasteland on Tomb a few weeks ago, and wasn't really disappointed with the Citadels. Also, played in a tournament yesterday where all my lands got nuked by Pernicious Deed :( That's a sad feeling, let me tell you. But Citadel is the only thing that gives us a chance from coming back from that.

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Originally Posted by Draconicsteel

Still not sure about Chalices. I'm not running them, so I switched out my Ancient Tombs for Citadels, too. Got blown out by Wasteland on Tomb a few weeks ago, and wasn't really disappointed with the Citadels. Also, played in a tournament yesterday where all my lands got nuked by Pernicious Deed :( That's a sad feeling, let me tell you. But Citadel is the only thing that gives us a chance from coming back from that.

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Having the security knowing that Darksteel Citadel can't be eliminated by Wasteland allows you to keep otherwise risky hands.

Also, Tezzeret targeting Darksteel Citadel can be very significant. It's the best way to beat Jund.

Hi dudes,
I'm looking for a bit of advice....

I'm typically a Dredger (mainly manaless, but also LED dredge), but occasionally play storm also (Pact SI, Ant.) when I feel like getting countered.:tongue:
I bought all the components to this deck ages ago, and played it to some success for a while but kinda gave up on it due to getting blown out week after week against combo, storm, control and yes, even aggro mid-range decks like Jund.
Soo0OO0ooo yeah, pretty much got owned by every serious deck, with answers that just bend us over and fuck us bloody with brutal efficiency.

I wanna see what I can do with a revised list, I think WUB is the strongest chance here.
Here's the list I'm working on;

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Inkmoth Nexus

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Etched Champion
8 Tallmen
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vault Skirge **
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Thoughtcast
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fie and Ice

SIDEBOARD:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3-4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Batterskull
4 Dispatch
And;
2-3 other slots...
Maybe some bounce like Echoing Truth (think Ensnaring Bridge, chumpers, Elephant Grass, Dredge Zombie tokens etc.).

Nothing groundbreaking obviously. Let me explain a couple of choices here;
Because we can almost always cast 2-drops turn1 (unless we're unlucky with mulling), I've gone with Canonist in the main, as I really wanna up my chances against Storm/Combo (where we typically lose hard given a lack of counter). Yeah sure, Canonist can be mediocre on occasions, but losing game1 puts us on the back foot badly > we need to win game1, no different to Dredge, because once they board in their hate we're unlikely to win twice.

I've been debating the use of Grafdigger's Cage VS Rest In Peace VS Relic of Progenitus for ages.
As a dredge player, I know that Cage isn't that great compared to RiP. Against any decent LED-dredge player, you would expect a Chain of Vapor line of play coming in from the sideboard in response to a likely Cage (cos what else are we likely to play?), so I know Dredges' *big turn* won't be too far away.
That said, Cage shuts off Green Sun's Zenith and friends too.
But Relic is card advantage > which this deck sorely needs to compete! Arrrrrgh!!!! :mad:
Given that a poor mana-hand (and the white requirement) makes RiP situational, and flexibility in the side is important, I think cage is the better choice.
....but for saying Cage is good, I wanna shoot myself in both eye's with a nerfgun!

4x Inkmoth Nexus. No Darksteel Citadel. Why you ask? Because whilst Wasteland is a threat, it's not in every deck out there, just the same way Deeds is only in few decks.
And because I wanna maximise my threat density to increase my game1 chances.
My reasoning is, once an opponent see's this little trick, Nexus will inadvertently protect my coloured mana sources by attracting their hate. I'm yet to test this is a competitive environment, but that's not too far away. I'm sure some of you have already tested this > feedback welcome!

Batterskull maindeck has been amazing for me in the past, given it's potentially a T2 Fuck your Goyf. But it's still a shaky choice @ 5cmc, so I've bumped it to the side.
I want both Jitte & Sword of F+I in the main, given that SFM = time for opponent to play your discard.
I've not been overly impressed with Sword of Light and Shadow, although it does love SFM.
Vault Skirge is another shaky selection here > I'm still not sure about this sucker. Honestly I'm looking for a better option, but Forgmite isn't it. Enforcer doesn't look too bad, but I'd not want to run more than a single really.

Any advice you fella's can give me?

Question for you sirs: How many of you are on the Stoneforge plan?

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Originally Posted by slave

Any advice you fella's can give me?

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The thing about Canonist MD is that you are taking a hit on your G1s against other fair decks that you would otherwise beat if you ran something more relevant than Canonist, for a small and pretty uncertain increase against some combo decks.

If Canonist didn't have bad or no compounding value, I could see it MD. Tidehollow Sculler is a good example of a possible MD hatebear with compounding value, if only its casting cost wasn't so restrictive.

On the graveyard debate: Many people consider Rest in Peace the best graveyard hate, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's personally one mana too slow against scary gy decks like Reanimator. I run Cage, but I would rather run Rest in Peace over Relic because Rest in Peace just stops strategies cold, and it prevents 'dying' triggers as well.

I've said on record that I think Inkmoth > Ancient Tomb, but one issue I've had with 4 Inkmoth, like with Ancient Tomb, is access to Metalcraft on turn 1, which is why I prefer Darksteel over either card. Inkmoth is still legit, though.

I'm no longer as hyped up about Batterskull as I once was. If we are using SoFI, I think that's enough against red-based decks, and furthermore, TNN makes Batterskull into a worse card.

Another Equipment that makes you ignore Goyfs is Sword of Feast and Famine. Have you tried that, slave? It seems just as good as Batterskull against midrange decks with Goyf in them.

I actually think, if TNN is going to be so heavily in the meta, that Horned Helm might actually be a better pick, given that it's trample, a cheap equip cost and the potential to instant-speed the equip, like Plating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slave

Because we can almost always cast 2-drops turn1 (unless we're unlucky with mulling), I've gone with Canonist in the main

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Not sure if I'm missing something, but isn't the only way to cast two-drops on turn one with this deck Mox Opal? Are you saying you mulligan for Mox Opal?

Ancient Tomb + Drum + Memnite generates two mana on turn 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shawon

The thing about Canonist MD is that you are taking a hit on your G1s against other fair decks that you would otherwise beat....If Canonist didn't have bad or no compounding value, I could see it MD. Tidehollow Sculler is a good example of a possible MD hatebear with compounding value, if only its casting cost wasn't so restrictive.

On the graveyard debate: Many people consider Rest in Peace the best graveyard hate..... I run Cage, but I would rather run Rest in Peace over Relic.

I've said on record that I think Inkmoth > Ancient Tomb, but one issue I've had with 4 Inkmoth, like with Ancient Tomb, is access to Metalcraft on turn 1, which is why I prefer Darksteel over either card.

I'm no longer as hyped up about Batterskull as I once was. If we are using SoFI, I think that's enough against red-based decks, and furthermore, TNN makes Batterskull into a worse card.
Another Equipment that makes you ignore Goyfs is Sword of Feast and Famine. Have you tried that, slave?

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Thanks Shawon,
Fair enough, the more I've been testing Canonist against combo these last few days, the more I'm understanding this. I like to test stuff out, seems to be the way I learn this stuff best.
Storm seems to be the only real reason to run it MD, which isn't good enough.

Inkmoth Nexus doesn't help metalcraft, you're right. I may have to test that one a bit more. I'll try out 4, then a 2-2 split aswell.

RE: Grave;
Rest In Peace, like leyline of the Void, is about the only real hoser to graveyard strategy IME. All other options have a flaw.
But Cage also allows us to effect in some way decks that run;
Green Sun's Zenith
Summoning Trap
Genesis Wave
Birthing Pod
Natural Order
Past In Flames
Snapcaster Mage....I'm sure there's more to add to that list, including whole lines of play like flashback, undying, unearth, persist etc.
I'm sure this is worth a thought, as fast decks like Elves, run GSZ.
Being able to board in both Cage & Canonist to slow them down might be something to think about?

Yeah I tend to agree, True-Name Nemesis warped the field a bit. You may be right about Batterskull here.
I haven't tried out Sword of Feast or Famine > will give it a test, but it doesn't look great at a glance.
Sword of Body and Mind is average, but it does allow us to attack with everything for a free chumper, although this second ability can enable some opponents, so it would be a side choice at best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serbitar

Not sure if I'm missing something, but isn't the only way to cast two-drops on turn one with this deck Mox Opal? Are you saying you mulligan for Mox Opal?

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Mox Opal & Springleaf Drum = 8 cards, so you're likely to get 2 mana sources on T1 about 76% of the time in your first 7. If you're on the draw, this % will be higher.
Ancient Tomb could increase this again.
I personally would only mull for a good start if my opponent is faster than we can be (storm, combo etc.), otherwise I'd approach mulling as per usual.


So I'm testing again...
Signal Pest is just terrible. Get out of my deck you fucktard!
Another card I'm looking at for the side is Humility. My thought is, by the time you can play it, you've already played your SFM, you then equip and smack them down via attrition, seeing as our deck is fairly threat dense, even though our topdecks are woefully shite. But yeah, haven't tested it much yet, so bear with me...

Humility is pretty ballsy. It's probably a better way than Ensnaring Bridge to stop Sneak-Show absolutely cold because some of them run Ashen Rider.

Don't forget Arcbound Ravager becomes a 2/2 if you cast it post-Humility!

Hmmm.... maybe Meekstone is a better option? Turn 1, vs a 4cmc 2W requirement.
I mean, all we need to do is move our equipment around, and their big creatures are still buggered.

Tangle Wire is probably a better alternative to Meekstone.

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Etched

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.

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I would say its position is weaker than it was before, if you look at the DTB section. It's not so much as because True-Name Nemesis infiltrating the format, or even the splash damage of cards like Zealous Persecution meant to fight TNN, but mainly because of the rise of decks that don't care about TNN, which incidentally happen to be bad matchups, such as combo decks. Death & Taxes does care about TNN, but it's also a terrible matchup for us. Miracles is also coming back into the limelight. On the bright side, Jund is played less.

However, Affinity is still a formidable deck, one that you would play in a combo-light metagame since it has a good chance of beating fair decks. The reason it hasn't gotten that much attention is that not enough 'good' players play the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shawon

I would say its position is weaker than it was before, if you look at the DTB section. It's not so much as because True-Name Nemesis infiltrating the format, or even the splash damage of cards like Zealous Persecution meant to fight TNN, but mainly because of the rise of decks that don't care about TNN, which incidentally happen to be bad matchups, such as combo decks. Death & Taxes does care about TNN, but it's also a terrible matchup for us. Miracles is also coming back into the limelight. On the bright side, Jund is played less.

However, Affinity is still a formidable deck, one that you would play in a combo-light metagame since it has a good chance of beating fair decks. The reason it hasn't gotten that much attention is that not enough 'good' players play the deck.

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May I ask what it takes to be a "good" Affinity player? I assume it means knowing all the interactions/sequencing, making the right plays and knowing the meta, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Etched

May I ask what it takes to be a "good" Affinity player? I assume it means knowing all the interactions/sequencing, making the right plays and knowing the meta, etc.

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That's one interpretation, but what I meant was not enough well-known Legacy players play the deck, otherwise you'd have a lot more proficient Legacy players confidently taking the deck to high-level tournaments as opposed to just playing the deck less seriously or not at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Etched

Just how well are we positioned right now guys? I mean, we've got pretty good matchups against alot of the field, including Imperial Painter, which seems to be getting bigger. I would've thought that we would have gotten alot more attention after the top 8 by Anderson, but I guess not.

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Those Imperial's are pretty expensive, and they're rare too.

To your first point;
Besides the obvious (we traditionally have no counter, no discard, almost every land is wasteland-fodder > which I think are the biggest reasons);
I think some of it could be to do with this deck having horrible topdecks. Perhaps the worst topdecks in all of legacy? :really:
I like the way this deck can land gargantuan amounts of damage quickly, but if a sweeper resolves, we can be in for a terrible pile of rubbish for quite a few turns until we get what we might find useful. Pernicious Deed for example.
Seeing how topdecks really matter when you get into the pointy end of a tourney, maybe this could be a reason why this deck doesn't get much love beyond the budget fanboys (like me)?
...or maybe it's the obvious?:laugh:

Honestly, I think of this deck as no less a glass-cannon than many combo decks.
Think of storm. Most versions of storm are crippled with a well-timed counter, as they're usually left with few cards in hand for a few turns, unable to do fuck all.
We're no different > we vomit our hand on the table and usually there's only 1 or 2 of them that could be seen as a threat. <COUNTER> FUCK!!
I tell ya - The number of times I've had a Plating/SFM countered to be left with nothing useful in hand, and only fuckin tallmen on the field. :mad: